PARLIAMENT.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1928, 10 December 1913, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

POLICE FORCE BILL.

DISCUSSED IN THE COUNCIL;

NATIVE UND PROPOSALS. • THE MINISTER REPLIES TO -CRITICS. The Legislative Council sat at °30 p.m. Tho Gisbor.no Borough and Harbour board Lands Exchange Empowering Hill, tno luakitcto and Kaitangata Lakes Amendment Bill, tho Lyttelton Harbour Boaixi Land Bill, tho Wangauui Borough Council Special Kate Empowering and Special Loan Bill, and the Christchnrcli Domains Amendment Bill were, put through all stages and carried.

INSISTINC ON AMENDMENTS. A Message was received from tho JJoiiso ol lleprescnLalivos riisagroeinp to uro amendment to Clauses li an<l 22 of tho Municipal Corporations Act Tho Hon. H. 1). DELL moved that tiro Council insist on its amendments, and that tho lions. 0. Samuel, J. U. Callnn, and th<:- mover he aimoinlcd a committee to draw up reasonti. Tho motion was agreed to. Tho Hon. jl. ]). [SELL 11K , vm ] tliat tlio Council do not insist on amendments to lint Police Offences Art. which tiro House of Representatives disagreed to. Tho motion was carried. Tho 11011. H. J). mCLL moved that. Hie Council insist on tiio amendment to Clause C in tho Water Supply Amendment Bill, disagreed to by tho'lioosn of Jtopresontatiyns. and that tho lions. H. A. Ijougliii.ni. (J. .1. Smith, and tho mover be a committee to draw xip reasons. The- million, was earned. SMAUPOX PRECaUTIONS. Tim Hon. \V. BEEI/A.Y oiiolwl from an extract in tho Auckland "Star'," and from .1 fetter from tho editor of that journal, drawine attention to tho fact that tho Commonwoullh Health Authorities were still insisting on vaccination of passengers from Now Zealand, which wa« consider;d unnecessary now tliat Xc.iv Zealand was a clean State from smallpox. Tiro Hon. Mr. Beohan hoped tiro Leader would do all ho could to have the restrictions removed.

Tlifl Hon. 11. J). BULL said ho believed tho Minister of Public Heaii.li was making some statement im the House tliat day. The New Zealand Government would caroi'iilly consider tlio matter, and every step would be taken to come to an understanding with the Australian authorities.

A MEDICAL BOARD. The Hon. H. D. BELL moved the second reading of tlio Medical Practitioners Bill. Ho stated that it was not intended to proceed further tin's session. This must not bo taken as an indication that the Government did not. wish to seo tlio Bill become law, as it would bo proceeded with next session, The/Bill provided for tlio setting up of a Medical Board., to make better provision for the registration and control of medical practitioners. It was desirable hi that great profession that thero should bo right of control to a certain extent by members representative of that body. In the present Act the. Registrar-General was tho authority. There was an appeal from him to. the Supreme Court, just as there was from tlio Medical Board proposed to bo constituted. Very few of the amendments in the Bill were substantial amendments to tho existing law. The -registration was still conferred as a right in respect of tlio possession of certain qualifications, and was still the subject of consideration in respect of other qualifications. Tho Medical Board was being substituted for the Registrar, however. Provision was also made for keeping tho register in a condition of continuity and reality. At present there was not sufficient reason for the elimination of tho names of those who had left or died. The register was not at all complete now, of those practising in tho profession of medicine in Nov.' Zealand. There was a provision in the proposed Act for removal of a person from tlio register if lie was guilty of grave impropriety or infamous conduct, or of an indictable offence. That was novel, lint really existed under tho : present Act. Tic commended to tho Council the Bill, which was approved hy tho medical faculty. The board would consist of seven members, all medical practitioners, appointed by tho Governor. Ho (the speaker) thought there would bo difficulties or differences in a system of electing tho members, therefore selection was left to tho Governor. Tho ; Inspector-General of Hospitals would bo one of tho members of tiie board. j

Tho Hon. DR. COLLINS supported the second loading, and stressed tho fact that under the existing A«t there were no means by which the EegistrarGeneral could take names off the register. It seemed to him some further moans should bo brought into force by which the register could bo made and kept more up to date. He was sure it would bo considered a very great honour to bo on the board.

The Hon. 0. SAMUEL agreed that tho Bill was an important one. and he was glad to seo it brought forward. The fact,'however, that the Bill Mas not to be proceeded with at present must not he taken as an earnest that it had the full approval of the Council. They had not perused tho clauses yet. knowing it was not to he proceeded, with, past tho second reading, When it came before them again it would have to be fuli'v diiscussed.

The Hon, W, BEEIIAN paid bo was glad that the Bill was not to be proceeded with this session. This would allow societies and medical bodies to fully consider the measure before it became law. There- scorned to be two bodies in Nen- Zealand, one outside and one in accord with the British Medical Association. There seemed to bo no consideration for those not seeing eyo to eye with the British Medical Association. He wanted one member appointed outside that association. Ho also wanted a clause making it compulsory for a member of the British Medical Association to consult with one outside the association when called on. He wanted a heavy penalty inserted for a refusal of such a« anpcnl, > Tho Hon. H, D. Boil: Ynu will have to move your nmondmont- yourself. The Government will not move the amendment.

Tlio Hon. \\. Bephan; Oil, you will have to if von aro made, Contiiuiinj!, lie pointed out that'there was a bovcott of yminc» tloptors outside tlio B.af.A. and the Coveimncnt should do soii'otliing.to do away witli it. The friendly societies mid medical practitioners, in his opinion, should work liand in liand.

The Bill was mid n second time without further discussion.

AMENDMENTS AGREED TO. Amendments from ,tho House of !Rpi>rpsi'nt<ilivcß were, nprrocrl in in tiie Public Bovcmios AtncmWnt Rill, Hie t.opal Bodies' Loans Pill, the faro Brigades Bill, and the Legislature Amendment. Bill. HOSPITAL AND CHARITABLE INSTITUTIONS. The Hospitals and Charitable Institutions Bill was further considered in Committee, and was reported with a new clause, iiffcclini» miner mailers. Tlie iJili was read a third iiitic and passed.

SHiPFINCI AMENDMENTS, T l-o Hon. 11. D. Bell, 0. Samuel, and

J. B. CaUnn vera appointed miimgm'H to confer with re.pru6ei\t»liv(:s \& t.lw House of lk-prcseiitatives with regard to amendments made in tiro Council to tli© Shipping and Seamen Amendment; Bill.

POLICE ASSOCIATION. A SPIRITED DISCUSSION. In Committee on tho Police I r orc» Bill, . Tho Hon. JOHN BIGG intimated his intention to move a clause to prevent anything in the Bill interfering «uh any Police*i'orco Association which might ho formed at any timo to better the conditions of members. Such an association, ho said, should not be interfered It would be morn in tho nature of a Civil Service association than n Labour association.

The Hon. H. D. BELL: There, is not the slightest intention of allowing any such organisation,. It is entirely out of .place, in a body formed for the protection of the public, and in which discipline, in necessary. (Hear, hear.) If it is necessary, such, an organisation will bo Mipprosßwl. (Hear, hear.) . Tiro Hon. ,T. T. I'AUL snid it would lio disastrous to have a Police Association, allied with any of tho Labour associations. Such, howover, was not tho intention of members of \hz Force. Tho police never dreamt of such relationship. Tho lion. H. ]). Bel!: What about Mr. JloKser, tiro Labour secrolii.rvr' Mho Hon. .!. T. Paul: I want "to tell you the reason why Mr. Itosscr appeared in tJiiß association. It was for tiro sauro reason tb.it I appeared. I was approached by several members of Urn t'oree, and asked to make Irepresentations to Die Minister nn their behalf. Why should Unit he m-ecssiiry? Because the inwiherii of the Verm. wpi«

afraid to make Una r«?|ir«seiiiatiomi themsolvon.

I'reec.sdmg, } w gave an absolute asishhiwb luat the HoJice never intended to Im allied with the j»<wtnl },aWor movement. H<> admitted toi«e p«jji!i> k-.lkw.il that an af/i'aiien w/lh Uik }(>"! Federation was dcsiied, 'ike foreword, of llin ntkx nf lUt» uummikn *et ihm entirely aside. tin was t-.atisfi<-<i the wtemljcrs of tlie J'Vijce were as kiysl as any liody to the Government.

.. The )Um. 31. T). tkil: As Ion) a* Mr Hosßnr.

The Hon. .]. T. Paol: 5 submit tli* name of Mr. Kisser has noUiin;; vkitever to do with this waiter.

Proceeding, the lion, member submitted that Kiieli associations <:Wsi«--d in ]''figlaiid, / There was s gooij 4<r.t] Vi say in favour of them, and he bdlwd the Government would hsm bwn wi;>« to take the members of tlio J'orec into their confidence, and have discussed ihn matter with thorn. The tfe&ire of tb« police to have an association through which their gri.vances could be i-jicd foil hi not bo stifled.

The Hon. JOHN BARB raid it was most unfortunate that such a matter cftmo up at this time, just wk-ji were approaching the close, he hoped, of an industrial war. Had it coree np a year ago tlio association might havij been recognised. Tho Hon. 3. IUGG said that Clause 14 of the Bill would Im used to snppretß such an association.

The Hon. H. I), Bell: Ves, if it is necessary,

Tho Hon. J. Mifiß enumerated tho objects of tho association, which were to improve the conditions of tho to promote concord and not discord between the officers and m«i: to watch over and control f.b> conduct of members ; to endeavour to so iafiuenee- its members that membership would be a guarantee of fidelity and strict attention w duty, etc.

The Hon" G. 'JOXES supported the formation of such an ajsiX'iatioii.

The Hon, W. EAENSHAW said the very first clause- c-f the rules of. tho Police Association was quite sufficient to warrant tho Government in tlio stand it had taken, .It was: To improve tho conditions of members, and particularly to maintain, and, if pqs' sible, to obtain recognition of an equitable status with regard to wages, hours of duty, and other working conditions. That contained all the essentials of trades unionism. No State could tolerate such a position. Tire Government had to keep the Police Force altogether away from participation in industrial trembles. The men had had good ro dress for all their troubles during th«. past few year*, and in any real major matter could appeal to the member of Parliament in their district and get redress from tho House. They should not, however, be allowed to form a lahour association. Tho Hon. J. T. Paul said they were simplv asking that tins police should be allowed to form an association stnctlj amongst,' and governed by, themselves. The Hon. J. BAItR thought it would bo highly desirable that provision should, be made in any measure brought down fur tho formation of an asMicintiou under certain conditions,

Tho Hon. J. BIGG subsequently moved tho following new chaise, taken from the rules and rcguktions of the. Police Association:—"(l) Nothing in this Aet shall bo deemed u>. prevent or otherwise, interfere with the formation or continuance in oxistcsieo of any society or association now or hereafter t.i ho established composed solely of members of tho Force: (i) having i >r its object: (a) To rmprovc the oondit.'oiv of its' members and particularly ;>i maintain, and, if possible, to ohtaiu recognition of equitable status with regard to wages, hours of duty, and other working conditions; (b) to promote concord, and not discord, antagonism, or hostility between officers ami men; (c) to watch over and control the conduct of its members ami. to insis* <m the prompt execution of Us duties by such members; (d) to endeavour ;m to influence its members that the membership of the association may be regarded as a guarantee of faithful rnd strict attention to duty: and (?) to provideassistance Ui members or their la.mm;s who might be in need of Mien, arid whore necessary to bring ncieiv ih.e Department the claims of Mich-," Tlie netv clause was nn addition to Clause M in the Bill, reading: "Th«» Governor tuav from time to iJtvse, by Order-in-Couticii. make such regulations as he thinks lit for tho government of the Force, and with respect- to all mailers wrnssary for rendering tho members of the Force eflieiont tor iito discharge of their -duties." A division was taken on tho first portion of She new clause, down 1o the word "Force." and it was rejected by 1(1 to -I. Hie ilons. .1. Bigg. J. T. Paul, ,T. K, .TcuUint-on, and G. Jones voting iu favour of it. The remaining portion was also rejected, and Clause 1-1 was passed as printed. ■ , The Bill was reported with several amendments put forward by the Government. . , On the met ion for the third riMtmie. The Hon. J. BIGG again voiced, his disapproval of Clause M. 'lhe Jlmister had made a straichlout tint lite clause would be used against, the Police Association ; f rcnsHlcrcd necessarv. This was very import.tin as it was the iirst time they hat, bad a straightoui declaration from tb Government as to their.intention tuth iegnrd to the association. , , IV Hon. ,T. BANK said that Ik- hse been prepared to support a rePohtHot that would pul' nH rrenrd. or pul ll i,i*'the Bill, that-the Government vera not opposed to, but would permit, an association, the rules ot which would iie subject- to regulation. Seeing that something bad been put on record by one who submitted the motion, and whoso vote was recorded in favour of it, he thought, it just that another side might be put on record to explain, at any rate, why one in favour of an association didn't voto for the resolution.

ho bad not ono single word to withdraw. The lion, gentleman had correctly quot- , ed tlio words lie used in Committee. ; 'i'hoy wore used in this way: Tho lion, gentleman asked him tho question whe- ' tlior Section 1-t could be.used to prc- , vent, the formation of an association? Thero was only ono possible answer: .Yes.' Secondly, it would bo used, if necessary, for tho purpose of preventing such an association. That ho said,' and that he repeated. Tho same section also allowed regulations which would permit such a club as might properly bo permitted to.a disciplined body, (blear, hear.) Ho said,*, and ho repeated, an association such as was formed under the auspices tinder which it was formed could not be- permitted by any responsible Administration which had not merely tlio business of talkiug about all the'business, biit of carrying out tho fluty ;'of preserving tho peace. (Ap- ' plause.) "Tlio lion, gentleman had rofraiiiod from mentioning that ho (tho ■ speaker) had referred to tho gentleman under 'whose auspices tho association '. was formed. •; The Hon. J. T. Paul: Ono of tho gentlemen. The Hqn. H. D. Poll: Well, one of tho gentlemen, Sir. Hosser. Ho is a gentleman who is an active organiser of Socialist Labour, and it was to him that those who desired to form an association turned. I siipposo ray hon. friend Mr. Paul wanted mc.to believe ho (Mr. Hosser) approved of the milk and water. Mr. Itigg read as tho foreword to tho association. Ho won't convince mo Mr. -' Kosscr_ believed it, and ho won't convinco mo that an association formed under such auspices would liavo been carried by such stuff as put forward in tho foreword.- Contimiinu, the Hon. Mr. Pell said his lion, friend misrepresented the position when ho ; suggested that he was saying anything derogatory to Mr. Possor. Not at all. Ho used tho words as ; a proof of tho purpose to which such an association could, and must indeed, turn, if it be founded by, and at the instance- of, and by permission of such a gentleman. It was such an organisation which the regulations gave power to prevent, and which tho regulations would prevent. 'Then to go on and say no social organisation of tlio police was to be permitted was altogether a-misrepresentation. Of courso the police desire'd a social organisation like any other body of men, nobody intended to prevent it, but an organisation for the. purposo of enabling themen to do the very thins his friend had just suggested, to combino together that'tho majority nnVht rule wlicn tlio minority was tho officers, was an organisation which, so lon.n: as there was a body of men whoso business it was to keep tho peace, must be prevented. (Aoplaiiso.) The Bill was read a third time and passed. OTHER BILLS. The Rangura Drill' Shed Sito Vesting Bill, tho Jvaitaia Land Drainage Pill, and tho Harbour Amendment Pill wero put through all stages and passed.' A Message was received front tho House of Representatives, agreeing to the Council's' amendment to the Counties Amendment Pill, and tho Eating Amendment Bill, but disagreeing to the. . attend incut to tho Education Amendment Pill, rescinding tho amount of the minimum fine- of ss, for which a parent was liable for failing to enrol a pupil on a. school register. It was agreed not to press this amendment. , The Hons. H. D. Bell, B-. A. Loughnan, and G. J. Smith were appointed managers to confer with tho House of ' Representatives regarding amendments of the. Council to the Water Supply Bill. • The Council rose at 11 p.m. until 2.30 ] p.m. to-day. !

»WE

The- Hoiiso. of. Representatives met it i.30 p.m. Mr. ti. FORBES (Hurumii) gave notice to ask the Prime Minister whether ho would give .instruction to the Agricultural Department to prepare for circulation amongst farmers a cheap formula for-thc miring of an effective sheep-dip in-order to relieve farmers of the necessity of purchasing sheep-dip. from proprietary companies. Mr. L. M. ISITT (Christchujch North) gave notice to ask whether New Zealand was going to follow the- other, nations of. the world in making a presentation to tho' Peaco Palaco at The. Hague. He suggested that a suitable ' inexpensive prestuit .might he something in New Zealand. woods, or a slab of greenstone. SHOPS AND OFFICES. Mr. H. ;ATMORE (Nelson) asked whether the Primo Minister proposed to submit' the Shops and Offices Amendment Bill-to' Parliament this session. Tho Hon.' W. F. MASSEY said he did not propose to ask the House to deal with the'whole Bill as it had been introduced earlier in tho session. However, he had taken out from the. Bill -the most interesting and probably tho most, important parts and had them embodied ju a- separate Bill. This Bill he would'submit to the House in a day or two, probably tho next day. . MILITARY PENSIONS. Mr. SPEAKER read a letter which had comoto him through Mr. H. J. H. Okey from tho TaranaUi branch of tho Royal New Zealand Association of His Ma'jcstv's Veterans. Tho purport of (the letter was to convey tho thanks of members of the association to Parliament for having passed legislation by which the services ot : veterans were recognised now by the payment of pensions. The Hon. W. F- MASSFA" moved that the text of thet letter bo recorded in tho Journals of tfvo House. SIR JOSEPH WARD asked to bo permitted to seo the Jpfcter, and after lie had read it he said.: "1 was wondering whether it was a suggested letter."' Mr. Massevi From that side? (Laughter.) Sir Joseph Ward: Oh too. \\e don't do that sort of thing. The ■motion was agrecd.Vto.

RULINGS OF THE 'CHAIR. SIR JOSKI'H WARD aaked tho Prime Minister whether an' opportunity would be given to tho House to discuss the important motion of which he had given notico relating to tho ruling's of Mr. Speaker and the Chairman of Committees. Such motions, he said, ought to he, and usually were in fact, dealt with by the House at the earliest possible opportunity. The Hon. AY. F. MASSEY said he disagreed with the statement made by Sir Joseph Ward that it was the custom to'deal with such motions. He had been a member of tho House for 20 years and during all that timo fio 'could not remember a. single o>e of tho many motions disagreeing with tho rulings' of Mr. Speaker and the Chairman of Committees having been dealt with bv the House. He would ask the right honourable gentleman to name one occasion (in which opportunity was given to the House to discuss such a motion.

Sir Joseph Ward: But we've never had an occasion like this.

The Hon. W. V. Massey said that in his opinion there had been occasions similar. Ho recalled an occasion on which ho had tabled a motion to traverse tho ruling of the Speaker of tho 1 day and that motion had never come bofore tho House, lint if the lion, gentleman was willing to stay until next week after the other business had been dealt with he. could go on with his motion.

Sir Joseph Ward suggested that to delay the motion until after the oilier business would bo offonsivo to Sir. Speaker. Ho admitted that ho could not remember a, motion.traversing tho ruling of Mr. Speaker being dealt with

by tho House. Ik- repealed, however, that tliuro novo:- had been ;i parallel case in tlio past. 31r. Massoy denied that there never had been a parallel case. -As precedent for his action,' he .cited the instance, when, after Mr. Speaker Bland gave his famous ruling in 1881 in tlio Mouse of Commons, the then Leader of the House, Mr. YV. K Gladstone, refused to accept it. Sir Joseph Ward said that the action of the Chairman recently had amounted to tlio use of the guillotine, which had never been a success in any Parliament. •'

Mr. Speaker: I think it is only failthat I should say that I, liavo nothing to do with the position of notices ol matron on the Order Paper. 1 should have been only too glad to have this liotico come to the top of the Order Paper for the simplo reason that I have, never suggested going outside- tlio Standing Orders.

FROM THE COUNCIL. Tlio Divorce and Matrimonial Causes Amendment Pill was received from tho Legislative Council and read a first time. The Hon. J. ALLEN moved that the amendments made by tho Legislative Council in tho Education Amendment Pill be disagreed with, and that Messrs. G. M. Thomson, R. M'Callum, and the mover be a- conimitteo to draw up reasons. The. motion was agreed to. Tlio amendments made by the Legislative Council in tho Counties Amendment Bill, and the Hating Amendment Bill wero agreed to. NATIVE LAND BILL. EMANCIPATING THE. MAORI. The Hon. W. H. HERRJES moved tho third reading of the Native Land I Laws Amendment Bill. Tho first speakers wero Messrs. C. Paraia, T. 31. Wilford, L. 31. lsitt, J. Payne, and J. A. Millar. The first reply came from Mr. G. V. Poarce, who argued that what the Opposition Party wished to perpetuate was tho present dissolute habit of life of many of tlio Maoris, who waited until they got their rent every six months, and thou spent the money in hotels and on racecourses. The Maori of to-day was in the position of a remittance man, and he had deteriorated a greatdeal in tho last ten years. Those who had the good of the Maori at heart did not wish this state of affairs to go on. What the Government proposed was tho only possible. scheme by which 3laoris could cot any capita! to farm the lands- they wished to retain.

After Mr. A. E. Glover and Mr. V. G. Webb had taken their turns, Dr. Rangihiroa protested vehemently against the passage of tho Bill. Ho did not aereo ivith Dr. Ppmaro that tho Maori should bo 'emancipated at onco a'utl put on tlio same footins with the Europeans. Ho reeorniised ; that this must come in'the end, but he had always held that it must come by a process of evolution. The time for this was not yet.

The Hon. Dr. POMAP.E defended tlio Bill vigorously. Ho would support it, he said, because it gave tlio Maoris a better chance- of becoming good citizens of this country.

Mr. P. C. WI2BU (Grey) spoke lor so long as lie was permitted by Mr. Speaker to do so, with evident satisfaction of the success of the Federation candidate at the Lyttelton election. "Bogies?" SIR JAMES CARKOLL (Gisborno) condemned that clause of. the Bill by which Maori members were excluded from the Maori Land Boards, seeing that those hoards dealt with the lands of Maoris. He also asked why tho Government should take power to acquire interests in reserved lands. .Mr, V. H. RKED said that it did not follow that'because tlio Maori.representatives on the hoards would he removed, tho white members would therefore deal unfairly with tho Natives. In reply to that ho would point out that the president of the .Maori Land Board in the North of Auckland was as 'much a Maori as any Native member of tho House. Yet tlio pakehas did not say that he would deal unfairly with them. Likewise, ho said the other point mado by Sir James Carroll was a mere bogy. " And what had Sir James Carroll done in tho twenty years ho had been in control of the destinies of the Maori race? He had not prepared them for the present time, and now. they were quite unfit to take their part as citizens. In all those years Sir James Carroll had done nothing for tho Natives. The result was that now.the Maori was at the mercy of speculators. If the present Bill had been passed some years ago the Maoris would have been protected from the operations of speculators, who had since got hold of much very valuable land of the Natives.

SIB, J. WARD (Awarua) said that the member for Western Maori (J)r. Pomare) had deserted his own race in helping the Government to pass this Bill. He accused tho Government, of neglecting entirely the interests of tho Natives. Mr. G. W. RUSSELL (Avon) also condemned the Government for having introduced proposals which he said would break a sacred trust —those proposals to enable the Crown to aequiro an interest in lands held on behalf of the Natives. The Government would not dare to apply such proposals to pakeha land. Mr. H. G. Ell (Christchureh South) was the last speaker in the debate. MINISTER'S REPLY. FAIR VALUE GIVEN. ' Tho 1-1 on. W. H. HERRIES (Minister of Native Affairs), in reply, said the other side had accomplished their desire in preventing other Bills coming on. The West Coast Settlement Reserve Bill must go on, however, despite tho fact that all the members had practically been speaking against it. Apparently lion, members wanted to stop another fortnight. With regard to the debate there had been two sets of speeches; by those knowing something about the Bill, and by those knowing nothing about.tho Bill. The Government had been accused practically of thieving and robbing. They had been accused of robbing the' Native. Was there any clause to show this? There was not ono clause; not one line. Thero was nothing allowing any land to bo taken without giving fair value for i> Tho lion, members for Gisborno and Bay of Plentfy both made fair speeches, and lie (tin." -speaker), was finite prepared to justify the Government's action. There was no contract between tho Natives and tho Crown in 1007 when lands were vested wholesale in the Land Hoards without consulting tho Natives. Thousands of acres wore_th.cn vested without the knowledge of' tho Maoris. Half of tho land so vested was to lie sold and half leased. Tho one cry bad been for releaso from the hoards. With regard to the Grcymonth leases ho was not going with n cheque-book to purchase all tiie land. Ho was only desiring the right to buy when tho Natives came desiring to sell. It would be a better investment for the Native to sell, but he was not anxious to buy. Tho Natives were only holding on at a low rale of interest.

Supported by Many Natives. Was it, »r>t a. far greater breach of trust than the present Coveniment eo»•templatcd to take the AVostCoast settlement reserves from the Natives and to give them to' the Public; Trustee in fee simple ? .Air. KM: For tho Natives. Why cloud tho issue? ' Air. Horries said that evidently the lion, member belonged to the school of which there wore numbers in the Dominion who believed the Natives should ahvavs be kept in tutelage. That- was

not his ov.n opinion. The policy of the Government was lo cut lie lan. of the country into small freeholds, ami to enable Natives to use small Ireeholds. One of llu.se objects; was 10 give tlio .Natives such a secure lille ln.it thev could get money to limn their hinds, for the .Nalives could .tod g<' that money now. And it was ineorreel. jo say that there were ho sale".... j |- for the Natives in tl.« «.». All ' safeguards that he could pill Hi V l ' the "lid of the best, lega laleut tla was at iu* disposal had been inserted in the Hill. I' was also a bogy to «av that the Natives' interests wcie jeopardised by the removal Iroin the board of the Maori mem hers As a matter of fact the object ol the 11.11 was practically to abolish he beams, for tho Bill proposed to allow Natives to get their land away Ironi the mar< s and revested in themselves. Ihe l.oan :; would soon not deal with land at all. In any case it was not true to sav that the Maori representatives on (lie boards protected the owners ol the land. There were tribal jealousies among the Natives, and some Natives bad, quito properly, no trust in members of another tribe. lie said, also, that it was quite wrong to say tint Br. Pomnre was betraying the trust reposed in him by his people. there was a. very strong section of the N.v I five race who wero iu favour of tlio I Hill, and who were asking t'o have it passed. Ho kiioiv very well how the opposiiion to this Bill had been engineered from tho Maori Conlerenee ill Wellington. He knew how all those iu opposition to tlio Government in the country were brought to Wellington to pass resolutions against the Government, but for all that' the Government bad behind them a very strong body ol Natives, who were sending the Government telegrams, urging , them to be strong, and to put tho Bill through. Ml this simulated wealth came from partv polities. The Pill was a good one, and'if members really read the Hill tho.v would find that it was so. The Pill was read a third tunc by 31 votes to 20. OTHER BUSINESS. The amendments of the Legislative Council to the Hospital and Charitable Institutions Pill were agreed to. The managers appointed recommended that the amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Shipping and Seamen's Bill bo agreed to, and the amendments wero agreed to accordingly without a division. The House rose at 1.28 a.m.