PUBLIC WORKS.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1925, 6 December 1913, Page 8

PUBLIC WORKS.

THE STATEMENT DEBATED. | SIR J. C. WARD AND TAXATION. ■When formal business had been disposed of tho Primo Minister said that tho Government would not tako advantage of tho Standing Order which permitted tlio Houso to go into Comjiitteo of Supply on Friday without dehate. Mombers could either discuss tho Public Works Statement'on tho motion to go into Committee or npon tho first Item of tho Estimates. Eventually it was decided to tako the first-mentioned course, and tho debate upon tho Statement was opened by Sir Joseph Ward sit 3 p.m. Slit JOSEPH WARD (Leader of tho Opposition) said that ho wanted to know how much of tho £675,000 that ■was in ways and means this year had teen transferred from tho Consolidated Fund to tho Public Works Fund. In tho quarterly financial returns up to September 30 (for half of tho year) nothing whatovor had been transferred. In tho previous year £750,000 was so transferred. Ho wanted to know, how Jnuch of tlio £675,000 was to ho transferred this year. Tho Hon. James Alien: Tho whole - Sot," and you know it perfectly well. Sir Joseph Ward said that tho Finance Minister had transferred something from tho Consolidated Fund to tho Public Works Fund in tho September quarter last year, and ho had not dono so this year. Ho went onto stato that in tlio period covered by tho Statement tlicro' was a, shortago of actual expenditure as compared with tlio au : thorised expenditure on roads of £482,049. •Mr. Fraser: All wrong.

Sir josepli Ward said that lie was quoting tho Minister's figures. If tbo Minister said they wero wrong ho beJioved it. Mr. Fraser said that ho would tell his critic about it afterwards. Sir Joseph Ward • went • oil to state tliat tho Minister had also starved tho country in respect of roads in mining districts. ' Mr. Fraser said that- this also was incorrect. Railways Construction. Sir Joseph Ward next criticised in » general way the Government's Hailway construction proposals. Ho declared loudly that: a paltry vote of £5000 for tho' Culverdon-Waiau would bo very discouraging to tho "poor unfortunate settlors" who wanted tho railway. - . Mr. Massoy: You would'nt give them live thousand farthings'! Sir Joseph Ward condemned "profligate expenditure" upon public, buildings disclosed in the' Statement. . Tho' Estimates, he said, provided, for; expenditure exceeding by nearly a million t'ho expenditure of tW' previous year. This did not square with, the Govern-ment's-past professions..of e.conomy. .Expenditure had gone up, taxation, had been increased —- - Mr. I' 1 . H. Smith: Whoro? Sir J. Ward repeated-that the Estimates provided for. an .expenditure' Si-eater thau that of tho year, beforo by £900,000. The Government jiad increased tho income taxation'oVi companies. The Government, lie continued, dared not bring down proposals; to reduce taxation. At the present juncture ho would aiofc support them if they did. Either the Government had been insincere in its past professions of econcmy, lie stated finally, or it was;wrong now.

THE FINANCE MIN IST E R REPLIES.: REPLY TO OPPOSITION LEADER: ': . - AT. ';■■. . '... : The - IionJAS: "ALLEN directed attention to tho statement just mado by the Leader of the. Opposition--''that-ho would not' support tho Goi'drnrticnt; in its efforts to rednco taxation." Sir J.;Ward: Not nt present I said. Mr. Allen: Well, it' is quito satisfactory to me,! and I "am .glad that tho country and: .lii_s/party.'.knew"it.. Now they.' icnew- wiioro tioy ~w;ere.;;-;If -the country wanted .v decrease of taxation it was not going-to get it from tho Leader of tho Opposition. Ho wanted to repeat that Sir J- Ward had said: •"I won't, at the _ moment, support any 'decrease'of taxation."

Mr. M'Callum: Quito right. Mr. Allen said that if tho..Government brought down proposals to reduce taxation it would not ho, supported by tho Opposition. Sir J. AA'ard: Y'ou.daren't do it. Mr. Allen: Wo have dared a groat many things, but if we propose to reduce taxation wo will get no support from tho Loader of tho Opposition or tiio momber for 'Wairau. Sir J. AVard: You aro pledged to .do

Ut .Alr. Allen; It. is' a most delightful situation. Ho hoped - that bei'oro tho end.of tho session Sir J. A\ard .would repeat.his assuranco. Mr. Allen said that it was correct that jiothin" had as yet been transferred this year from t'ho Consolidated Fund to the Public AVorks Fund. Sir J. AVard: Thoro was a transfer 13 Mr. C Alien: Yes, last year £50,000 had ■been transferred un to tho end of September. I was in office at tho tiino and transferred it myself. He asked Sir J. AVard how much ho transferred 111 1911, 'his last vear of office. Sir J. AVard: £800,000. Mr. Allen: By tho end or Septem*ber ? 1 . . Sir J. AVard: I did not say so. . • • Mr Allen: That is exactly how the hon. "eutleman is misleading tho House ttnd tho people of tho country. Ho wants them to believe that by the end of September 110 transferred. £800,000. At all events tho hon. gentleman gave that impression. Mr. Ijoo: How lnucli^. Mr. Allen: How much? Not 0110 trass farthing! Sir J. AVard knew quito well .that a Treasurer was una bio to make the transfer until tho end. of the year luicn tho rcvenuo camo in. -ip-onnn Sir J. AVard: You transferred £00,000 last September yourself. . Mi-. Alien: Yes, I know I did. I tried to bo a more economical Ircasurer than vou were, and I transferred £50,000. You did not transfer 'a lialtP< Tho Minister continued that as t<> the stateniout made by Sir'J. AAarjl tliat thevo had been. a short oxpondituro of votes, the lion, gentleman know well that votrs wore not intended only for tho period up to March Jl. J revision had to bo made for amounts required up to November in each year.

Promises That Wero Broken. Tho Loader of tho Opposition know: this. Ho also knew that,' when in office, lio promised votes without mteiidinrr to carry out tho promises. Had ]ic" not promised to provide £200,000 annually i'or three years for back-block, roads? Did ho not know that' tho criticism rightly levelled against himthat the promise was not kept.-' W in any /ear was £250,000, or 'anything like it, expended on back]j|iiclc roads in one year. Mr. Allen. s - id that Sir J. AVard had tickled tho. of the electors with promisos of- /• (joy a year for three years, which. * ho did not intend to carry out. 'Tv M'>ssey: Four ysurs. Mr' Vllcn: Yes, I had forgotten that. Yto carry him over tho next clec- ' tThat was the criticism levelled ■'. l the hon. gentleman, _ and it was a righteous and a just criticism. It was otherwise, Mr. Allen continued when hon. gentleman appeared b?TD3cIf in the role of a critic. ou J. ttarU

knew very littlo about the business of criticism from tlio Opposition benches. Ho was trying to take a lesson from those who had preceded him there, but had not understood them correctly. Mr. Allen asked Mr. Forbes (Huruimi) what- ho thought of his Leader's references to tho Culverdon-Waiau railway.

Mr. Forbes: I will have something to say. Mr. Allen: Might I ask tlio lion, member what ho cVcr got from tho last Government ? , • Mr, Forbes: A definito promise that it would bo started. (Laughter.) Mr. Alien: It was liko tho definito promiso of £250,000 a year to the backblock settlers. Mr; 'Kussell: Is not this an electioneering proposal ? Mr. Allen: Well, it is not election year, anyhow; it is a perfectly honest proposal. .Hci added, that lie had been in tho Waiau district, and was satisfied that -tlio Waiau railway ought to bo constructed. This and other small lines would servo the main lines, open bush country, and would pay; £SUUO for three mouths' expenditures was not bad for the Waiau railway. At any rato. i't was a promiso of bettor things to come. ' Mr. Fisher: Ask liim to move to striko it out. Mr. Allen: No, wc won't let him striko it out! Ho next asked tho member for Avon what ho thought about the Otago Central railway. Mr. Kussell: I understand that it pays six shillings por cent. Mr. Allen asked tho Leader ol tho Opposition what ho thought about this railway.

Sir J. Ward said that ho had always supported it. Mr. Allen said that Sir J. Ward had helped tho line by cutting it off -short-. ■ Mr. liussoil: What about your own railway? Mr. Allen confessed that there was a railway he wanted for his district, but added that, lie could not get it. Expenditure on Buildings. He admitted that the expenditure upon public buildings was too heavy, and ho regretted that they could not stop it, but tho hon. gentleman (Sir J. Ward) was wrong when he said that no liabilities in rcspcct of public buildings wero left by tlio previous Government. Expenditure upon tho Auckland and AVellington Post Offices and public build-' ings in Christchurch had been commenced by tho lato Administration. Neither was the present Government responsiblo 'for the new Parliamentary Buildings. He challenged the Opposition "to name one largo public building that'tlie.present Government had committed'tlio country to that was not absolutely, necessary. Sir J, Ward: You pledged yourself to reduce and you haven't !'done--it.-'-

""/Mi'V Allen said that tho Government's proposals wore safe. They still had a large amount of commitments to work off, but ho hoped that, by tho end of 191-1 tho country would be in a strong position: *Personal Explanation. — SiR-J:;,. : R'ARD said, in personal explanation, ; that lie wished to make it quite clear that ho had said ho would not support'a proposal to reduce taxation', "at' tho present juncture." He did not pledge himself against reduction ;of'taxation in the future. He thought' it could bo reduced, but did not think -the prosent Government could do it. — "Mere Money Wanted. S. JIACDONALD (Bay of Plenty).said'that he could not find any cause, for rejoicing in tho Public Works Statement. _ He blamed Ministers for tlieir : attitiidc in relation "to public .works.;,, .'.i'ersonally, lie said, ho would bo.glad,if, twice as mucli money could ,be .provided, for public works, but tho ■•Minister of Finance was still prepared to. criticise '-everything'-tliafci--had been ■ clone .-.by.illis predecessor, ■ and to claim that::iie; had dono better than his pre•decessorr v ;-Ho contended that tho present Minister had been more economical only.by starving the State Advances "Department. 'Ho. hoped tlia.t tho next Statement, would again announce a record expenditure upon public works.

Wellington Wants. Dr. A, It. NEWMAN (Wellington ■East) said that 'what had fallen from Opposition speakers reminded him of the saying that the critics were thoso who ha.<j failed. When in office they had failed in the administration of public works, and now they failed as critics. Ho went on to advocate the prosecution of the Ohakunc-Haotilii branch railway. A very important mutter to people in this part of the country'was tho proposed Rimutaka deviation. In his opinion only _ 0110 deviation was possible, from Upper Hutt or Kaitoke to Tauhorcnikau. The Minister was putting a vote on tho Estimates for tho FeatherstonMartinborough railway, but it would have been far bettor to devote this sum to the cost of surveying tho Rimutaka deviation. Ho hoped that tho Minister of Public AVorks would make an extended tour of the Eastern AVairarapaduring tho recess, and would consider the best means of opening up that district. A second important railwaywork required in this district was a deviation of the Manaw.itu line at Tawa Flat to provido an easier routo. to Palmorston North. Much of inland country could bo opened up, in his opinion, by means of motor-wagons and motor-lorries. - In such _ districts as AYairarapa East these vehicles would to to a great extent take tho placo of branch railways. Tho motor vehicles should bo provided by tho Government, in accordance with a comprchensivo plan. Mr. J. COLVIN (Bullcr) advocated the prosecution of railways on tho AA est Coast.

South Island Main Trunk. Mr. R, M'OALLUM (Wairau) complained that while £135,000 was being provided for railways north tif Auckland, tho remaining link of the South Island Main Trunk was getting only £20,000, with an indication - that it would not bo spent. It was a coincidence, ho said, that this railway and others which wore being neglectcd 011 tho West Coast wero all in districts represented by Opposition members. Mr. Okey: That can easily be changed. , Mr. M'Callutn admitted that the Minister was not trying to buy theso districts. Ho went 011 to adviso tho Minister to keep his "beggarly £20,000, and, spend £50,000 or £00,000 upon tho southern cud (which was i» the district represented by his friend tho member for Jluriuiui), because if there was one district that deserved a railway it was Kaikoura. . ' Mr; Forbes: You aro quite right.

Where Reduction is Possible. . Mr. C..-A. "WILKINSON (Egmont) saitl bo did not propose to offer detailed criticism of tho Statement, but lie wished to urge that wc were spending ou new public buildings in New Zealand muck moro than wc could afford. Last year £611,011 was spent on buildings, and only £108,072 on roads • and bridges. This year the cxpendituro on buildings was to .jo over--£600,000, and lie thought hon. members-would agree that this hca**y cxpendituro must bo cut down. '-Mr.. Allen: There are commitments. "Mr. Wilkinson admitted that commitments must bo heavy, but ho would like to; seo 'tho cxpendituro cut down. lie was- also of opinion that the Stratford Main Trunk line ought.to bo pushed ahead more rapidly, as it was ono ot the most 'important in tho whole country. This year only £85,000 was voted for it. Ho congratulated tho Government on I having given a voto for tiio Opunako line. Ho was of opinion, not that the taxation should bo reduced, but that Lliieic should be a readjustment of lasa-

lion. Probably this would litivo to bo clone next year. .Mr. Jiuitd'j: How would you make up till! (lelicit r 1 11 r. Wilkinson said that tiio liner tax, proposed by some members of both sides, would make un sonic of it. lie would bo prepared to support a further increase 111 the graduated land tax, if the proposal were not confiscatory. He did not. agree with Dr. Newman that the needs of the country districts could lie served by motor-buses. Generally, ho urged that moro up-to-date methods should be followed in t'lie construction of our public works. Labour-savins machincrv should bo used. Ho objected to the pavmcnt out of the. Public Works I Fund, practically out of borrowed money, of such items as Public Works' officers' salaries, .expenditure oil immigration, and some of the expenditure on contingent defence. In conclusion, ho urged the Government to put the conslruHion of tlio Opunake lino ill lw"d this eum"'lYr. J. C. THOMSON (Wallace) aeensed the Minister of having neglected his district, in -the mutter of railwaj votes , „ • Distribution of Crania. Air G V. PJSARCE (l'atea) criticised the way in which the late .Government bad expended borrowed money. Before money was spent oil ra "" a J duplication ,works 2tko that ou ww Hutt- line, he said, the country should be opened up bv branch lines and otherwise. JI o was dissatisfied with tho allocation this year for roads. At least twice as much as was proposed should bo applied to this purpose, and tho amount which it was proposed to spend on public buildings should bo reduced, 110. wont on to express a hope that somo better system of distributing «rauts than that now in voguo would soon be evolved. A conference of countrv representatives which met during llie year had recommended a new system. The conference proposed that all county councils should rcceivo a subsidy of us. in the £ on rates. At present. somo districts got subsidies ot 10s. in tho £, and others got os. in the £ up to. £2300 of rates, and nothing beyond that amount. It was pioposed by.tho conference that tlio Bs. subsidy s/ufuid he universal. As to grants in aid tlio conference rccommendcd the creation of an independent board to ■ control their distribution. It was pioposed that in the first instance the hoard should classify tho counties into those which had roads to make and those which, had only maintenance of roads to provide for. Only tho backblocks districts which had roads to mako would rcceivo grants in aid. The other counties would get only the ss. snbsidv. It was further proposed that tho board should allocate tho amount available for grants in aid amongst the different districts and roads. This would bo a much better schemc than the present haphazard ('lie. Ho hoped that before' long some system of tho kind would be evolved, llr. Pearco emphasised the claims to attention of the Opunake branch railway, and expressed the opinion that it would pay ten pel cent, upon its cost. Mr. G lever: What population have you ? ' . Air. Pearco: About 56,000 in Taranaki—not quite so many as ill Auckland, but probably they produce a good deal more per head. Tho best route of the railway, he said, had been selected bv an independent commission. Mr. Pearco also urged tho rapid prosecution of the 'Mount Egmont branch railway. which was intended, ho said, tc provide metal for the railways and for the use of local bodies. His county (l'atea) was at present carting metal over a distance of 120 miles. Mr. Glover: Have you 110 ballast? Mr. Pearce: We havo more ballast in Taranaki than tlioy havo in Auckland, but wo havo not much metal. It had , surprised liini, he said, to hear that as much as £15,000 was required to complete the Mount Egmont line. • ' Mr. Fraser interjected that lie hoped to. coinploto tho lino and also -provide . a crushing plant for that sum. Mr. Pearco said that in that caso the line would probably be completed within twelve months.

Tho Waiau Railway. Mr. G. AV. FOP.BES (Huramii) pointed out tliat Mr. Pearto had secured a voto of £3500 for a post office atPatea. He said that ho was Jiot going to object to the Government allocating £5000 to the Culverden-AVaiau railway, but a much. larger amount would certainly bo wanted next year. Ho would have much preferred that a large sum should have been provided this year and a smaller sum in election year. Mr G. J. ANDERSON (Mataura) urged that all Crown lands should be roaded before being thrown open to settlers. ■ He opposed tho continuation of the Otago Central lino. Ho regretted that the Minister of Public AVorks had not made moro strenuous efforts to abolish tho co-operativo works system. Mr. J. V. BROWN (Napier) detailed certain grievances about a railway station, a post office, and a bath house.

Non-Political Control. Mr. 15. NEWMAN (Rangitikci) said that ho too was dissatisfied. His district- had applied for about £9000 (all for back-block roads) and had got about £1200. Ho recognised, however, that applications exceeded t' lo amount available five times over, rho present Svstoni of grants, Mr. Newman went on to remark, was as bad as it could bo. Members spent the session in dunning tho Minister of Public Works in the interests of their districts. It would bo generally agreod that Government grants should bo applied niainlv in aid of back-block development. Tho classification of districts in order to make a proper allocation of "rants possible was a matter or oxtremo difficulty. Physical configuration of districts, their fertility and stato of communications, by roads, rivers, etc., all had to bo taken into account. S9lllO discretionary power had to he exercised and it could best ho put m tho hands of a non-political road and bridges board. Such a board would do good work in tho interests of the country and of settlers.

Tlie East Coast Line. Silt JAS. CAH ROLL (Gisborne) advocated the vigorous prosecution of the East Coast lino from Gisbornc. A Humiliating System. Mr. 3. G. COATES (Kaipara) vigorously denounced the present system of grants in aid, under which members had to dun tho Minister of Public Work's. It would be better to rely more upon tho Jural bodies than to depend upon ono man in Parliament. Ho favoured lump-sum grants to the focal bodies, which should bo made directly responsible. The present state of affairs was humiliating. He had received about fifty letters and telegrams of complaint from settlers and others in his district since tho Estimates came, out. It was not right that a member of Parliament should be placed in such a position, but as things stood_ now these people liatiu'ajly looked to him to net them grants. It was degrading that thero should bo a possibility of public money being diverted by members of Parliament or tho Minister. Mr. J. HANAN (Invercargill) accused tho Government of failing to keep its promises in regard to local government reform and other matters. Ml-. C. E. STA'i ITAM (Dunedin Central) said that, politically sneaking, the member for Invercargill was tho man with the muck-rake. Meiitioning_ Mr. Vigor Brown, he displayed an illustrated newspaper sheet, published prior to an election, in which the member for Napier was pictured as the champion "post-office planter." and in many similar characters. Mr. Statliain defended the Otago Central railway, which had now, he said, been carried over the worst part of tho route, and had entered . productive country.

Mr. CI. W. RUSSELL (Avon) continued the lino of' criticism taken by Sir J. Ward earlier in tho day. He also quoted extensively from the speech delivered by Jlr. Massey in tho Wellington Town Hall before the last general election, and claimed that the promise of the snecch bad not been fulfilled. ' "NO FAUUT TO FIND." PREMIER REPLIES TO CRITICS. The PRIME MINISTER, speaking shortly after midnight, said that up to an hour previously tho debate had been ono of the dullest and tamest that he had ever listened to upon tbo Public Works Statement and Estimates. The reason was obvious. Thero was no fault to find; members were satisfied with tbo Statement, and with tho provision made by the Minister of Public Works upon the Estimates. The member for Avon bad infused some lifo into the debate, hut ho had found no material for criticism in the Statement and Estimates, and had been compelled to go back to tho very famous speech that he (Mr. Massey) made about- two and a half years ago in the Wellington Town Hall. Ho believed that tho effect of that speech was to convert some tens of thousands of electors into supporters of tho Reform Party. He could not understand members on the other side of tho , Houso finding fault with tho Government for borrowing too much money. They were a progressive party and wero going to do everything possible to develop tho country. Ifio success thathad already attended their efforts was indicated in the increase of exports for tbo last twelve months. If it had not been for these wretched industrial upheavals

Mr. Russell: "You don't claim credit for that, do you?" Mr. Massey (emphatically): 1 certainly do not. He know exactlv what the underlying reason for these upheavals was. _ The Prime Minister wont on to justify the allocation made for new buildings, and asked the Opposition whether they'objected to such items as £05,000 for workers' dwellings, £'125,000 for sehe-ol buildings, £10,000 for hospitals, and £50,000 for mental hospitals. For post ofiicc.; £110,000 was provided. This was ono of tho legacies that had come down from previous Governments. He admitted that £480,000 in one year foe public buildings looked a big thing. At first sight ho thought it was too much, and he still thought that too much was being, spent oil post offices, but, with this exception, ho did not- think that it was possible to improve upon the proposals. It was true, as had been stated, that work on the South Island Main Trunk railway had been stopped, but tho reason was that tho first survey was wrong, and that the route was over country over which tho line could scarcely bo built. A new routo had, therefore, to bo chosen. Tho member for the Bay of Plenty had said tho Government had starved the Advances Department. But of now money in tho twelve months ended March 31, 1913, the Government had advanced £937,435. That did not look like starving'tho Department. Mr. MaclXmald: That is about half.

Mr. Massey: Tho amount spent- by the previous Government was spent during tho election year. Mr. Russell: What arc you spending, now ? Mr. Massey said ho did not know tho figures exactly, but ho believed they wero advancing at the rate of about a million a year. Ho reminded bon. members that tho present Government bad raised tho limits for advances to settlers and workers, and to local authorities, which limits had been reduced by the previous Administration. Tbo Government had also given local bodies assistance by giving tbeiu the advantage of tho Government guarantee, when they wont on to the market to raise money. This measure was necessary, because it was quite impossible for'any Government to borrow all tho money required for advances.

Pledges That Were Kept.•And 110 Government that had over occupicd tho Treasury benches had been a.blc to keep so many pledges as this Government last year and this year. Amongst the pledges kept was that of putting the Public Service under Commissioners, which had dono away with political influence. It was, perhaps, costing £10,000 a year, as had been said, but it would save tho country £47,000 a year, according to tho Commissioners' report. Tho Government had given nearly 20,000 settlers tho right to acquiro tho freehold of their holdings, who two years ago had nothing to look forward to but a life as leaseholders. Tho Government had kept its pledge to reduce tho pension ago for women to sixty years. . Mr. Brown: Who helped you to do it?

Tho Prime Minister: Not Vigor Brown! If tho lion, gentleman had not interjected I would not havo remindedhim'how ho and others obstructed the Pensions Bill. He continued that tho Government had carried out its pledges to provide military pensions, to exempt improvements on land from taxation, and to assist fruit-growers. Mr. M'C'allnm: Small stuff, Mr. Massey: Well, what about the Second Ballot? We pledged ourselves to. repeal tho Second Ballot, and wo havo dono it. Ho went on to remark that the Government had provided more land under tho Lands for Settlement Act than had been provided for twenty years past. Tho Government had carried so many reforms and kept so many pledges that it took a little timo to think of them all. It had been suggested that political influence had been brought to bear in tho caso of now railway lines in order t-o assist Government members. This ho emphatically denied. It was not true that political influenco had been brought to bear in tli'o caso of now lines. .Justice had been done to a number of districts which had waited for it for many years. Did Opposition members say that tho Opunako lino', for instance, was nob justified P

Mr. Russell: Why tho Mackenzie Government started that ! Mr. Massev.: I am quite willing to admit.that you set up tho Commission, but wo authorised it. Mr. G. Witty (Riccarton) could find nothing to approve in the Govern, liient policy. Mr. J. H. Bradney (Auckland AVost) and Mr. 11. At more (Nelson) continued tho debate. (I,eft sitting.)