MINISTERS ON TOUR.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1918, 28 November 1913, Page 4

MINISTERS ON TOUR.

i AND THE COSTS. WARM WORDS IN PARLIAMENT INTERESTING COMPARISONS. MACKENZIE CABINET'S RECORd. An extended discussion arose in the House of lioprcscatativos yesterday afternoon, when the. I'rimo ' .Minister !i:e,ved to lay on the table a return showing the travelling allowances and expenses of .Ministers for the. vear ended March 31, 1913. " ] Sir .1. Ward dire-clod attention to a return obtained by .Mr. 11. M. Campbell earlier in the session, which supplied a comparison between the expenses of his last visit to London and those ol (lie Hon. 3 as. Allen's visit to London. Ilie comparison, he contended, was improper, but lie did not say that it had been made designedly. His own visit was in the capacity of I'rimo .Minister and as representing (he Dominion, while Mr. Allen went to London as Finance Minister, for a special purpose. A proper comparison could ho made lwtwewi Mr. Alien's visit and the visit that he (Sir J. AYard) made to Loudon as Finance Minister, in 1805. His expenses on that occasion were about i'oOO. The Prime Minister said that quite a number of_ motions asking for returns of Ministers' expenses were on the Order l'apor. There was no objection to furnishing the information,' but ho considered that the proper time to furnish it was up to the end of the financial year, as was .being done in the return which he bad moved to lay on tiio table. The return by the I'rimo Minister supplied the following particulars of travelling allowances and expenses brought to charge in . the Treasury books during the year ended March 31, 1.913 :—

WARD GOVERNMENT. Resigned March 28, 1912. Travelling Travelling allowances, expenses. £ s, d. £ s. d. Sir J, Ward ... — !i 7 6 Sir J. Carrol! ... — U 17 fi Hon. J. A.Millar — 23 5 6 Hon. R. M'Kenzie — 14 16 0 Hon. A. T. Ngata — 10 16 9 Sir J. Findlay — 210 G Hon. G, Eowld's — 015 0 MACKENZIE GOVERNMENT. March 28, 1912, to July 10, 1912. Hon. T. Mackenzie 87 0 6 235 9 3 Hen. A. M. Myers 45 .0 0 26 8 6 Hon. W. D. S. MacDonakl ... 67 10 0 101 I<3 0 Hon, U. Laurenson CO 0 0 GS 10 8 Hon. (i. W. Russell 62 5 0 92 10 4 H011..J. A.Hanan 45 15 !.) 28 M 6 Hon. H. G. Ell 09 I) 0 78 4 4 Hon. J. Colviit 61 10 0 74 0 3 Hon. To liaugiliiroa 81 0 0 49 11 0 Hon. TV Buxton 82 10 0 0 10 0 MASSEY GOVERNMENT. July 10, 1912, to March 31/ 1913. Hon. \Y. E, Masscy 9-1 10 0 76 17 8 Hon. J. ,Allen... 43 0. 0. 48 2 3 Hon'." W. "H. : ' ' Herries '..;... 78 15 0 24 -I 3 Hon. W. Eraser 108 0 0 87 0 0 lion. A. L. Herdman ■ .'...' 40 10 0 30 14 2 Hon, E. M. B. Fisher 11l 0 0 90 1 G Hon. H. 11. Rhodes 48 0 0 51 1 0 Hon. E. H. D. Bell — 17 15 0 Hon. M. Romaic 103 10 ' 0 91 8 8 The Prime Minister said that the travelling allowances and expenses of the present Government- compared very favourably with those of the Mackenzie Government. A Charge Denied, Mr. G. W. Russell said that the return showed money brought to eharge, and not liabilities incurred. Ministers had kept their expenses back, and not brought to charge sll that bad been incurred to March 31. Mr. Massey: They have done nothing of the sort! Mr. Russell said that the Government should bring down a return showing their liabilities incurred to March 31. Ho asked tlio Prime Minister whether the return showed tiic whole amount of lviii travelling expenses to March 31? Mr. Massey: Every cent. Mr. Russell: Well, give mo a return. Mr, Noswortby: That is a knock-out!

Mr. Russell: It is not a knock-out. I have been long enough in politics to demand documentary evidence. Mr. F, H. Smith: You judge others by yourself. Mr. Russell said that Mr. Masscy and other -Ministers were travelling away from Wellington during almost tho whole of tho recess, and now they brought down a return like this, and 'expected a .suspicions man like himMr. Wilkinson: Weren't you electioneering? Mr. Russell: Xo, sir, I was not I (Loud laughter.) Mr. Russell: And, sir, I expect the lion, gentleman to take my word for it. Ho added that ho had visited nearly every hospital ami mental hospital in the country during 'the recess. Continuing, he asked why tho return : did not mention -Mr. Fisher's visit to Australia, when he entered into a ; treaty, "which tho Government had ! never dared to show to tho country." (Laughter.) Mr. Masscy: We can't do it without the consent of Australia.. Mr. Russell: You could state the treaty you proposed. Mr. Masscy'said that the Government was in communication with Australia on the subject. "The Opposition CasogeriG." The Don. V. M. B. Fisher said that he wanted to say a few words in reply to "the Opposition gusugone." Mr. Russell asked whether this was in order. Mr. Speaker said that it was not in order to apply such a term to any member.

31 r. fisher: Xot Ui the. uiember, sir, merely to his .speech, which was all bubble and froth. If ii was mi-I'arlia-mentiiry I withdraw it. Ho continued that the honourable gentleman had accused him of drawing travelling expenses while playing lawn tennis. This lefened In the visit of the Davis Cup team, lie travelled with the team while it was in New Zealand, and during that time, never drew a penny of travelling expenses, instead, lie forfeited a sum of £17 he misfit have drawn. 31r. }{tinsel I bad also said that he (31 r.' Fisher) had .drawn as expenses in connection with his trip to Australia, the sum of i-it'.l). The lacis were lluvfc !sis expenses ,I'ur the trip (oil days) were CM", an nvt'Vi:;e of £2 los. per day. The Hon. <>. Kowlds, when be went io South Africa in September, 11110, ami returned in tin' middle of January, ISU, incurred expenses (fur Ml day?) amounting to Clol). Air. I'owlds's average for Hie hip was L - "> Id*, per day. "A Glorious Day." 3!r. fisher said that when 31 r. I'Whk returned from South Africa his colIn.inucs iiucnt £7o in niving him a ban-

<|i:ei ih me public expense. "Cabinet [hat alteiraoil," said .\lr. Fisher, "must nave bad une'of the- most glorious davs "I- its iiie—a £75 banquet to Mr. J'liwliis, who was drinking soda!" He ccntinuod that Mr. Sneddon's last visit u> Australia cost the fonniry an average ot £20 per day. .Members on tho other side of the House had no reason to complain about the expenditure incurred dunng the lust nine months. At the last (;!ecii,)ii Sir Joseph Ward drew £77 in tiiirty-niiie days—for electioneering. oir Joseph "Ward: That is not correct. (Laughter.) Mr. Fisher: If the lionmuablo gentleman will turn up IJ3, 1012 " fair Joseph Ward: You mustn't have such suspicious ideas. Mr. Fisher: If he was not electioneering he did the same thing as Mr. linssell, the member for Avon—he was trying to, and failed! • He. .went on to romaik that at the time of last election the Hon. H. M'Kelndc drew £30 65.. in a wee!;., and Mr. Ngaia £24 IPs. in mx days. Mr. Hussell: Your arithmetic is out. Mr. i'lsiicr: It may he, but von are out. J lint ins expenses for the nine months amounted to £111 was due to tho iMtihatwlieiihewasdow-n or. the West boast he had to make a motor trip from oreymouth to Picton at a cost of £11. tlio member for Avon could not turn tin 'he -record of Ministers' expenses for any year and find as low a total as tho total m t.i.e return presented •that afternoon. Sir J. Ward: You charged the same i.ites as your predecessors.'' Mr. F.sher: Yes. but there are no -'a. oanqucts m these allowances. ;■>»■ J. Ward: You are doing it in another wav.

The Reciprocity Treaty. ~..?';.. *''? *"#«* of the reciprocity th-, *'l,'; t •• -J'? 1 *? WB »'»d«l the House u- his visit to Australia was followed fUI ° e T MI cteti »»> at ivhic'h tlio fltn + ) P 'i •" wc,lt out of i)o,v < !! '' Si»«> & , •<? d i P Mcticall y b«n paraw' ,> C I - adll - ot cvcu dcalt w iti tho lensjons Reciprocity Bill passed by the Acv Zealand Parliament, The fact that tuo treaty was hung up was duo to circumstances over which no ono had any cpiitrol. It was unfair to suggest that the- substance 0 f a confidential treaty should he disclosed for the gralifimtioii ol one pr two members of tho House. He w-as confident that the Leader of the Opposition would not endorse the request of his supporters in this n\spcl Mr. J. Colvin said that Mr. Fisher could have travelled from Grc-vmouth Uv steamer to Wellington at a cost of £2 J()s., or by Ciiristehurcb at a cost of about £4 10s.

Mr H. G. Ell said that he had done very little travelling while lie was a Minister. What travelling he had done had savedt'iift country a great deal moro than it had cost. Mr, J, A. Hanaii -said that tho members of the present Government were doing moro traveling than their 'predecessors, whoso travelling they had condemned. Tho discussion was continued by Messrs. Isiit, M'Cailum, and MasDonald. A Striking Compsrison, .The Prime Minister saidU'hat tho travelling expenses and allowances of the members of the Mackenzie Government during a period of Hiree' months and 12 days totalled £1406 10s. lOd. The ex- j penscs and allowances of present Ministers during eight months and 11 davs | totalled £1150 6s. If the expenses of [present Ministers had beer, at the same, rate as. those of their predecessors tho total would have been £4338. Ho did not think ho had done an inordinate amount of travelling. •■'jllivlJusfielU .P l o|j,'i.i'orgfl)i' l yo».,can!e to Clirjsk'liurch. Mr. Massoy: 1 am going, back to Christcliurcli. 1 enjoyed myself immensely, there, and in tho Canterbury district, and I woiild 1 like, there and stay. If over I leave Auckland .1 will go and stay in Canterbury. I have many good frioirls thert>, and I am glad to find that their number is rapidly increasing,