WEST COAST RESERVES.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1916, 26 November 1913, Page 4

WEST COAST RESERVES.

AN EXTENSION OF LEASES; FAIR TREATMENT OF THE NATIVES. Tlio West Coast Settlement Reserves Amendment Bill was introduced by Governor's Message. ■ Sir J. Ward and Mr. G. W. Russell asked tho Minister in charge to explain, the Bill. 1 Mr. Russell asked whether tho Bill-authorised the i: saio of tho freehold of tho West Coast leases. Mr. H. CI. ; Ell'proteSted-!'ri£ainst'the' Bill being brought down at tins- stage of tho session. The Prims Minister: Wait til! vou seo the Bill. . .Mr.-JTdl said that he had a good idea of what the Bill contained. Tho Prime Minister: Do you know the lonises are up? Mr. Ell wont on to say that, they didn't want any more guillotine. ,! A Government member: That is tlio thing for.you. '. ■ Tho Hon. W. H. Hemes said that there was nothing contentious about tho Bill. All tho.parties so far as he knew .—tho Native owners, tho Public Trustee, and the pakolia lessees —were agreed about the Bill. It was the xesuit of jiumerotis conferences, and lie believed it would be satisfactory to all parties. Of c.ourse lion, gentlemen liko tho member for ChristcKurch South—who had; 110 thought, onco been up at I'arihaka— naturally thought they knew all about tho AVcst. Coast Settlement Reserves, j Tlio Bill only referred to tlio 1881 leases, and it had to be' put through this session becauso some of tho leases were expiring., The. Bill, Mr. Herrics contend.'cd, was based upon an agreement between. the Native owners, tho Public Trustee, and the lessees. It extended tho leases for 10 years, and after that the -land .went back to tlio Natives. Mr, Ngata: What about improvements. . . . Mr. Herries: That is arranged for in the Bill. . Mr. Ngata: Moro than £5? Mr. Herries: Yes, more than £0. To Sir Jas. Carroll tho Minister said that the agreement spoken of was ill writing, lie was going to refer the Bill to the Native Affairs Committee and that body would not let anything go : through that was injurious, cither to tho Natives or to the lessees.

Sir Jas. Carroll asked whether particulars would ho furnished to the Committee as to tlio number of applicants affected by the, Bill and the number of owners in each block. Also a copy of the agreement. Mr. Ngata said that information should also be given to the Committee as to capital value, unimproved, value, and value of improvements of the various holdings included in tho Bill. AVhat, he asked, would happen to these lands at tho end of ten .years? Mr. llerrics: They go back to the Natives. Mr. Ngata: Saddled with improvements to a value of what? That is the question. If thero is a difficulty financing these areas now with a statutory limitation (in the value of .improvements) of .-£5, what was the position going to be ten years hence when the value of tho improvements had increased? Fair to Both Parties. Mr. H. J, H. OKKY ('Parana ki) said that the Bill was one that must bo dealt with that session as some of Hie .leases were expiring. It had been before a conference which sat during a great part of the session. At the present time the Natives were, as they put it. in a net, and the nakehas were also in a net. The House would find that the Bill before them was based upon an agreement which was fair both to tho Natives and to the pakehas. Bonsfiting the Maoris. Tho Hon. W. JI. HERRI.ES, in answer to Sir Jas. Carroll, said that lie would give tho Nativo Aflair.s Committee full particulars as to the area and values. The agreement, however, was of a confidential nature. lie would be glad to give tho lion, member its substance confidentially. The Bill was practically the result of the agreement. So far as the Natives were concerned under tho present Act the Natives would not regain possession of their laud for '21 years, if then. At the end of 21 years tho leases were put up to bo competed lor at auction. Un-less-tho Natives bought their own land in they would never get it back as things stood now. The proposal was to extend tho leases for ten years and then tho Native owners would regain possession of their land on paying compensation for improvements. To Mr. Ell llio Minister replied that th,p would not have power to

buy the hind. The Government was taking power in the Native Land Act to purchase Native trust lands. He was quite prepared to put in a list of owners before the Committee. Sir Joseph Ward asked why an agreement between the lessees and the Native owners should be confidential. 'I ho I'rinio Minister said that the agreement was not a formal one in the ordinary sense, but consisted of the minutes of tho conference at which this very difficult matter was settled. .Sir J. Ward: That is 51 very different matter. The Prime Minister said that ho was of opinion that under the new arrangement tVe rentals of the West Coast leaseholds would be multiplied more than three times. The full value of improvements would have to be paid to out-going tenants at the end of ten years. ( Mr. Ngata's Suspicions. The Hon. A. T. Ngata said that lie looked with suspicion .upon any agreement with the Natives in which his friends the Tarauaki representatives were concerned. On the other hand, however, ha felt sure that- the representative of tho Taranaki tribes. Dr. Pomare, would not allow any injustice to be done to his people. " Dr. Pomaro: Why the suspicion? Mr. Ngata said he would like to believe that the lion, gentleman was abovet suspicion. The member for Tarauaki, he continued, had, held it up as a bogj' that the Taranaki Natives were not in a position to bid for the leases. Tho fact was that tho Natives wero in a position to outbid all others (because it wa3 tlieir own land) if only the Public Trustees were sympathetic towards their beneficiaries. Mr. Ngata went 011 to find fault witri soriie detail provisions of the Bill, and, in doing so, commented upon somo alleged practices upon tho West Coast of tho South Islaud. Mr. Wilson: This. is Taranaki. Mr. Ngata: There is not muel-. difference between tlio West Coast of tho South Island and this West Coast when it comes to grabbing tho other fellow's land. Mr. C. 'A. Wilkinson (Egmont) expressed 'indignation at the reflection cast by Mr. Ncata upon Taranaki members. Tho Bill, lie said, was in tho nature of a comnromisn arrived at til a conference at which the Native owners wero adequately reoresented. If there was anything in tho Bill to take exception to it was that it was a little bit to the advanfago of the Natives and not tho tenants. Tho Bill was fair and square in every respect.. Ho hoped the House would not adopt tho view of tho last speaker that Taranaki members should bo looked upon with suspicion. Mr. W. D. S. Mac Donald said that tho whole history of tho West C'oast leases showed that the Natives had not always got tho best of the bargain. 111 fact it had always been tlio other way. Tho Bill should bo carefully looked into. Dr. llangihiroa spoke in a. similar strain-to Mr. Ngatal He said tlmt ho had every confidence in his friend, Dr. Pomare, but tho latter would bo more easily _ led astray- than Native representatives who had been longer in the' House, and were up to every niovo in tho. game.

Mr. H. G. Ell saifl that'the protest ho had made was amply justified by tlio' disclosures of MK' Ngata. Under the Bill rent concessions were being granted to tenants at the expense of the .Maori owners. Only the Maoris liad lieon singled out in this way. The tenants of the West Coast Settlement Reserves had been like a lot of harpies 011 the backs of the Maoris. Left-Handsel Compliments. ' The Hon. Dr. Pomarc said that ho would,, reserve what ho had to say .regarding tlio Bill until it reached <tho House. r Me did not" inihd tho lefthanded .compliments paid' him by his colleagues of the Native race—a pat on the shouldered a kick in tho back, as it were. Neither had he any objection to their method of expressing confidence in him, but at tho same timo one expected that they would give .1 member of their own race credit for a certain amount of intelligence: j\lr. Ngata commended highly a provision in tho Bill that 110 barrister, solicitor, or Native agent should appear beforo valuers. Ho declared that under the Bill tho Natives were being excluded from their land for ten years because. they could not put np tho money now, and at tho oml of that timo they would have to pay an increased sum to get back their own lands. Financial assistance should bo given to the Taranaki N a Lives to euablo them ■ to occupy and work their lands, as a l?oyal Commission had recommended. Mr. C. IV. rat a said that some of tho Taranaki Natives were' actually taking ,up their.own lands on a sub-tenancy, and Parliament should. assist them to get their lands back. Mr. yf. 11. D. Bell said that he had Jiot seen tho Bill, but know about as much'about the matters with which-it dealt as any pakeha member of the House. Ho was. of opinion that in tho past tho Taranaki Natives had always suffered injustice, but that they wero getting a fair deal in tho present Bill. As one who took a deep interest in the question, he wanted to put it on record that, ho considered ■ tho Bill a fair one. Sir Jamos Carroll asked whether oral ovidonco would bo taken beforo the Nativo Affairs Committee. He understood that there was a division of opinion amongst tho Nativo owners. Mr. H. G. Ell said that the commission which had investigated tho condition of tho West Coast Settlement Reserves had' reported that'tho tenants had no grievance, and that the Native owners had suffered injustice all along tlio line. Mr. Ell Rebuked. 'Mr. C. A. Wilkinson contended that the Bill would considerably improve tho condition of tho Natives in connection with their lands. The Nativo representatives and tho member for Christchurch -'South had expressed their opinions hastily. Mr. Ell 'had railed the tenants of tlio.Taranaki Native Reselves "harpies." Thai, remark should not lie forgotten by the settlers' who had brought the Taranaki lands into cultivation. It would .stand to 11 r. Ell's discredit for a. long time to coiuo. The Natives had been .treated very well in Taranaki, and whatever bad treatment they had suffered had not come from that side of tlio House. 'This Bill gave tliom tho best deal they had ever had. Mr. IT. J. 11. Okcy challenged the detractors of tho Taranaki members to prove that any one of thorn had ever defrauded a Native of one shilling. If lie were.in the position of the Natives he would be well content to accept tlio conditions embodied in the Bill. The rental provided was tlio same as under tho Lands for Settlement Act. As to the Government taking power to acquire Nativo Rescrvo lauds, «omo childless Natives had come to the Government and said that tlio.v wanted to sell their lands. No compulsion would he brought to bear upon the Natives. The Bill was rend a first time and referred to the Na.live Affairs Committee. HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATION. AN AM lON 1)1X0 BILL. The Hospital aud Charitable Institutions Amendment Bill was introduced by Governor's Message. The Hon. R. 11. i{bodes said that most of the clauses in the Bill were of a machinery character. One nevr provision was that a contributory authority might elect anyone to represent- it on a Hospital Board, though he did not reside within the boundaries of its district. Another clauso gave hospital authorities power t<i detain ncrsou'-.

suffering from contagions diseases. Still another clause imposed a penalty on Hospital Boards which failed to send in annual returns to the Department ivlihin a. reasonable time. The Jiill was read a first time, . PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. FLOATING TREASURY 1511,1,5. The Public Revenues Amendment Bill was ret'linied by the tiovernor with an amendment providing that Treasury bills might floated in London in 'anticipation of a Public Works loan to an amount not exceeding £500,(Ml). , The amendment was criticised bv Sir ,T. Ward and .Mr. 0. \Y. Russell', tho latter of whom' declared that the country was' running headlong into financial difficulties. The Hon.-Jas. Allen said that he was sorry the honourable gentleman (Mr. Russell)'was not more patriotic, He bad tried to arouse suspicion! and to discredit the Post Office Savings Rank. He would not.succeed in his efforts, and did not understand the position. Tho honourable gentleman would li'.id at the end of the year that tlw finaisecs of the country were in very good hands. .No additional power to borrow was tnkon in the amendment before tho House. All that they wero doing was to add another string to their bow sb far as getting tho money was concerned. Ho was quite willing to move that, the amendments should be referred to the- Public Accounts .Committee, and 'hoped that- this would satisfy even, the suspicious member for Avon. Ho .moved that the Hill as amended should bo referred to the Public Accounts Committee, to bo reported' on within, ono .week. This was agreed to, • PUBLIC WORKS STATEMENT. 'I'lie Public 'Works Statement and the accompanying Estimates wero introduced by Governor's Message ■ shortly before 5 p.m. In answer to Sir Joseph Ward, tho Minister of Public Works (tho Hon. W. Feasor) said that an opportunity would bo given the House. at an early date o£ discussing tho Statement.