BOARD OF AGRICULTURE.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1904, 12 November 1913, Page 10

BOARD OF AGRICULTURE.

debate on the bill,

need fob proper direction,

The adjourned debate on the second reading of the Board of Agriculture Bill was then proceeded with. Mr. G. M. THOMSON (Dmiedin N.) thought there was need of this. Bill because for one reason it was well known that the Department of, Agriculture was not working as harmoniously as a Gov* eminent Departm-nt ought to work. Agriculture was clearly going to bo of increasing importance to New Zealand, and eonsequeatly deserved attention by tho Government. Wasted Energy.

He felt suro that at. tho present time, a gfeat amount of energy was being wasted in the Agricultural Department for want of proper direction, a»d ho felt sure a great improvement could bo effected by placing a scientific expert at the head of affairs. A great deal of our experimental work was, 110 -thought, not nearly as valuable as it ought to bo, and, while animal breeding had in this country reached a- higli standard, it was his opinion that m plant breeding better results could bo obtained by scientific methods. Ho suggested that it would- be for the good of the country if a forestry expert were appointed. To his wind tho country as a whole was not being afforested to tho host advantage at the present time. More-attention, too, would iiocd to bo paid to the flax industrv if tho best returns were to bo obtained. He admitted that capital work had already been done in the eradication of pests, but still there was room for improvement in this branch of tins Department's business. In rc-gard to agricultural education, ho mentioned that when agricultural colleges were established be would like to sea them capable of turning out, not so much farmers, as mtsu wuiaeLftiit tQ ,£o through tlio

country teaching both the practical and theoretical sido of fanning. Mr. G. WITi'V (lliccarton) cousitlorod that tins Agricultural Department could do more 1,0 teach scientific fanning Mum could tho proposed board. Ho was disappointed that the Hill mado no provision for agricultural colleges. The son of a small farmer coming back from tho agricultural collegc to a thickly populated district would bo as useful aa wore the present experimental plots dotted 'throughout tho country. He considered, that the sooner wo started planting the country tho better )t would be. Ho did not sue, however, that the board could effect required improvements in the flax industry or in animal-breeding. Then, where was tho board going to sit? Ho •was not sure that tho proper thing, would not havo been to have a hoard in tho North Island, and eno in tho South.

Sir. Okey: You believe ill boards, then ?

Mr. Witty': No, I d«irt. That's where the lion, gentleman makes a mistake. Mr. Witty belioral that the Prime Minister intended to placo • colleges in different parts of New but desired to place -upon the board tho onus of saying whero they were- going to be. He (ilr. Witty) gate Lincoln College credit for-doing good work, especially in plant-breoding. About the Agricultural Experts. Silt WALTER BUCHANAN (Wairarapa), referring, to tho criticism qF tho memfcer for Krccarton that tho We.nlbers of tho board would Jiot have the necessary knowledge to advise the Minister as to stoek-hrccdiiig, remarked that tho lion, gentleman ought to havo known ,tlmt this' was one branch, in which t'hey would bo well qualified to give . advice. In regard to the lion, gentleman's disappointment that the Hill mode no provision for agricultural colleges, Sir Walter Buchanan contend" ed that tlwfc was no ground for tMs, and there was no warrant for assuming that the Government had abandoned ite intention of establishing colleges ill both Islands. Members of tho board would bo just as much experts us officers of the Agricultural Department. In this connection, Sir Walter Hufthanan referred to the failure of the stock— horses and cattle—that- had been brought out to New Zealand by the Department, Would #ny private owner havo mado such a mess of tho whole business? He did not say that the stock inspectors were altogether to blame for this, but the facts wore tliero just tho same. As a matter of fact, taking the Agricultural and Stock Department as a whole, there were not many experts there. A great improvement could be effected in the' knowledge which they had at their disposal, and which they should bo in a position to give to agriculturists all over the Dominion. Iu the proposed board tliey would havo the best knowledge that could be ob* tained from different parts of the country, and it would be of Material benefit in advising tho Minister in various directions. The Government had been charged with want of courage 111 not stating irltero they were going to establish agricultural colleges, but tho'chargo could not be- sustained. Some years ago ho had the honour to offer a sum ot money for tho purpose of establishing an experimental farm in tho Wairarapa. He might possibly make some : other such offer yet for the purpose of establishing an agricultural college-— (Members: Hear, hear)—but if ho did

so ho would mako 310 stipulation that the collego was to be an the Wairarapa. lie felt Ito could leave it to the Government to place it in the a&st -suitable locality. A great deal of; good, Sir Walter Buchanan was sure, would result from the* establishment of this board, and tho Bill has his hearty sup* port. - Colleges and Experiment Plots. . Mr; G. Y( r . FORBES (Hurunui) was not going to tako any exception to tho establishment of this board if the Minister thought that tho. Department could bo. run to tho best -advantage with tho board to advise him. Ho reserved the right, however, to criticise tho personnel of the board, aild lie suggested that some members should be elected by tho A. and 15.I 5 . Associations, and that others should bo elected re-pie-senting the small agricultural industries,- such as beekeeping, dairy-farm-ing, and fruit-growiiig. He thought that a better arrangement than that proposed in tho Bill would bo to have

a board for the North Island and one for the South. As a South Island member, be protested against- any fui tlier delay in the establishment of agricnltural colleges, and in tbo establishment in the South Island of the experiment plots, which were so badly required there. Constitution of tlio Board. Mr. E. NEWMAN {Kangitikcij did not think it would bo an advantage to have .two hoards. Tlio constitution of tlio proposed board gavs adequate representation to both Islands. He hoped that endowments would be sot asido for the establishment of agricultural eo'lleges. To his mind the chief advantage to bo derived from the setting up of tlio proposed board would bo thai "they would have a continuity «f policy. In tho past Ministers in charge of the Agricultural Department had been desirous of doing tho best they could for agriculture,. but they each had different ideas. It surprised him that this point had not occurred to same of tho previous speakers. The board woultl have many functions —a very wide scope of work. The very essence of the Scheme, if it was to be 3 success, was that they should have a jsood class of men on the board. He took it that tho, board would advise tho Minister ill the way that a board of directors of & company advised the.managing director, and it- was essential to men with a, wide knowledge of the different branches of agriculture. He was inclined to think that tho A. and P. Associations were receiving a little more power under this Bill (in connection with the election of tho board) than their position in the country entitled them to. He thought the small farmers, who were the hope of Now Zealand—(hear, hear)—were entitled to more consideration, and lie would like to. seo the president, of tho I''a Hirers' Union ex officio a member of tho board;. lift would also like to see tho dairy unions, commercial ' institutions,' and local bodies with representation 011 the board. Ho congratulated the Minister of Agriculture on having brought down sucli an excellent- measure. Not Important, Mr. G. W. RUSSELL (Avon) safd he dici not think the Bill was so important as some honourable gentlemen seemed t:> suppose, for tho simple reason that the board would bo an advisory body only. It appeared to him that the Minister would not take tho adyioo of the board iinless it coincided with tho advice of his expert officers. He was afraid that thero was no prospdet under this Bill Of dairy farmers securing adequate representation oil tho board. Mr. 11. (I, ELL (Ghristchurch South)' considered that the setting up of the bua'rd was ft piece of extravagance, seeing that tho Minister could now get all tho advice ho wanted from the Farmer:;' Unions awl tlio A. and P. Associations. Need fir Rural Eclucalton, Mr. I'\ H. SMITH (Waitaki) said that. insufficient attention was being paid to educating our youth in agricultural and pastoral pursuits, from which 86 . per cent, of our exports were derived. Ho argned that there ought to be more schools and colleges at which youths ceuld be taught practical as wall scientific agriculture; Mr. J. BOLLARD (Eden) said he'had keen surprised to hear tire Leader of . the Opposition say that there was not uuch used ioi' ia our acri-.

cultural education. .There were sufficient examples of bad farming in this country to prove that, our farming methods could bo improved, and if t.lroy were improved tho volume of our products to be exported would be vastly increased. Also, land was being impoveiishfld by bad farming. Ho -admitted that the experimental farms were doing good enough work, but they were useful only to those already engaged in farming. They were not useful >o youths anxious to leant farming. Ho supported the Bill.

Mr. G. V. PEARCE (Patca) pointed out that it was not thie, as members tf tlio Opposition had alleged,- that dairy farmers would not seetiro adequate representation through tlw>_ A. and I s . Societies, Many of the biggest societies wero controlled by dairymen. lio argued also that tho reason why a board of practical farmers was necessary was that experts were very often not practical. Our experimental farms'were not successful boeauso tho methods of fanning followed on tho farms wero not practical, and were expensive. Tho result was that farmers took no interest in tho farms.' Tlio methods of farming at these institutions had been improved lately, but he would like to sc.o more cadets taken on at the farms.

Mr. W. mSWORTIIY (Ashburton) said he recognised that the Bill Would bring about a great change in our agricultural education, which bad .hecfl altogether neglected hitherto. There was surely something wrong with aft education system which turned out professional men by tho thousand and did not offer any facilities for acquiring a knowledge of tho working of tlio sou,, by far the most important industry in the country. Ho thought the Bill would be of very great uso t 4'aiid he would heartily support it, . Mr, H. J. IL. OKEY (Taranaln) said ho Was pleased) to see tho Government were taking a new. departure in tho policy of their. Agricultural • At present this Department was coiltrolled entirely - by exjieris, to wljom the farmers., and especially the dairyfarmers, owed a very great deal, fcw would like to see these experts mem, hots of the board, and ho would also fifte To s.e<> tho Minister of Agrvculturo chairman of the board. Ho was ono of those who believed in sma 1 areas, and ho thought tho hoard would do well if it did something towards, helping men of small means to get on to small farms, even if it- had to lend its assistance h.V means of tile co-operative system. Ho favoured also the establishment of agricultural banks.

Keeping Faith With the, People. Mr. 6. A. WILKINSON (Egmont) was satisfied that here u; New i we had to learn quite a lot about famine, and tliete was surely something wroiv with out educational system, ~hich turned out so many professional men and made ho provision lor an agricultural training. He hoped that before long agricultural colleges would be established sa that young men could act the necessary training to hi.them tor farming. The present Btl, m his opinion, did not go far enough, but it was a start in the right direction, and would have his support. One other board that lie would like to-see cstanlislied Was a Board of.Commerce, winch he believed would do a great deal ot good for the people of -New Zealand, mile 011 this Bill, ho hoped the Minister of Railways would wot overlook the question of providing cheap tares tor farniers wishing to yisit .ih© experimental farms. 111 conclusion, Mr. Wilkinson congratulated thp fomimch# 011 bringing forward this Bill, Which had ton referred to as and of-their broken pledges. ■ Its introduction stowed that t-ho Government had every desire to keep faith with tlio people. Mr. T. BUXTON (Temuka) agr-xri ■with the remarks of the member for Egmont as to. the . advisability (if setting up aboard of Commerce. He fav- j ourod anything that could bo done t'« improve agriculture iu Nox\ f but was of opinion that the method of election 0.l the board was not tho best possible flue. ' Mr. W. D. S, MAODONALD'' (Bay of Plenty) denied that agricultural education lmd been neglected in tlio past. Elementary agrieultuM bad lieen taught; in over a. thousand, of-the Stato whools. ■. He declared that New Zealand led the world 111 the amount of exports per head ■of population, but. lie agreed that tho time had now arrived when, it wivs necessary that something moro should be done for agriculture. Mr. D. IL GUTHRIE fOroua) did not for one moment fear that this Board ■of Agriculture would conic into conflict,. with tho present officers of' tho Department. . The board would bring to the Minister cxaet' knowledge ■ and _ local knowledge, which would assist him iu tho administration <sf the Department. He was not going to decry tho work of the Agricultural Department. No one could deny that this Department had done a great deal to advance tho agricultural interests of the Dominion, but there were many directions in which the hoard could givo practical assistance to tlio Minister. While he. believed that there should be an agricultural oollegc in the North Island as well as $ne in the Sou'tll, .lie Wanted to impress upon tho Bouso that it was not to these colleges that wo must ultimately look for the imparting of tho true agricultural knowledge -to the great masses of the people. It was rather to classes in thp primary schools and! the technical schools, and ho urged upon tho Minister the necessity of increasing the present "starvation capitation," which was insufficient to enable the work to ho carried on as it <mght' to. ho. •

Sir. R. SCOTT (Otago Central) disapproved of the tactics of tlie Opposition in endeavouring to damn the Bill with faint praiso. Ho regarded tho measure as a move in the right direction, and it would hare his hearty support. Mt. J, A. YOTTftfi fWaiteto) Rested that another Minister should be appointed to tho'Cabinet in order that he might giro his undivided attention to the very important Department of Agriculture. Ho considered that the money expended on the experimeritai farms was fully justified by the results. Tho vatua of -scientific knowledge applied to tho agricultural work of this country was incalculable.

Mr. J, (J. COATES (Kaipara) cordially approved of the Bill The Board of Agriculture method of control was do now thing, having been tried in other countries, after the bureau system had failed. The defect of tho. bureau system Was that the experts did not always Work iii witli tho farmers of tiro country. The Minister's Reply, The- Hoa. W. repfyfng said that, tho objection had been raised to tho constitution of the board on tho ground that the probabilities #ore that tho members of the board would bo largo land-owners. For his own part he did not- think this was probable, nor did ho think thai; to bo, .t largo tad-owner should he a disqualification for a position on the board. Bo had ito doubt the A., and !>, Societies would elect from their members gentlemen well fitted for tho positions they would have to fill There need be no conflict between tho exports and tho hoard, The exports would stil.l .advise the farmers as at present,' but tho board would advise the Minister. In framing the Kill ho had had the loyal support of officers of tho Department, notably Mr. Heakfia, the. veterinarian. Mr. Witty: A good man.

Mr. MaSsey: That's jny opinion, tic went oil to discuss., tho work of tho Agricultural Department. It had dono good work, he admitted, but ho hoped that when tho board was set Up more Use would be made of the experimental farms than, over lic-torc, Ho believed that more should be done with "roadside plot''' esperitfients, well-known in other agricultural cotiatrifti. Q» juettr

that Hie Agricultural College to bo i-stablishcd in tho North Island would bo expensive, but liq did not proposo to sot out with an ambitious scheme. "'i"- board would-jint cost inoro lliaii about £1000 a year. It had been suggested that there would bo fi ictioii between the board and. tho officers of tho Department, but the board would have 1W control over tho Department, although it might possibly work in with tho officers <1! tho Department, lie 'did not think CMiVntcfeial men would bo limleiT oil the board, liar did lid think it would bo wise ty lia.v.o local bcidies represented. The great desire of the Gnv> eminent was to keep tho board free from party polities, and eroii from local pcliticß-. Tho Bill was road a second timo on tho voifees.

RAILWAYS AUTHORISATION

. The Hon. W. FRASER (Minister df Public lVorlcs) moved tlio second reading of the Railways Aul horisation Bill. 11l tlio subse.giten.t- dobato members urged that railways in their several electorates ought to bo included in tho schedule, Mr. J. C. Thomson called si division., but ho did not peisist, and tilt Bill was read a second timo on thevoices. The House rose at 0.20 a.m.