THE FOREIGN AGITATOR.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1904, 12 November 1913, Page 7

THE FOREIGN AGITATOR.

PRIME MINISTER'S PLAIN SPEAKING. CAUSE or THE TROUBLE. SIR J. G. WARD'S SIMPLE FAITH IN LAWS, The Loader of tlie Opposition, mentioned the strike in the- Hottso of Representatives yesterday afternoon, mid incidentally made a speech which the Prime Minister declared would assuredly liavo the effect of prolonging the struggle. Mr. Massey was ■extremely direct and definite in the statement at. his opinion as to what- Was the eause of tho trouble—foreign agitators, to wit. House Committee Proposal.

Sir Joseph Ward asked the Prime Minister whether lie could give- the House any information with regard to the strike. Oa the last occasion on. which the- Prime Minister had spoken on the subject- lie had .intimated to the House that the Conciliation Commissioner hoped to he able to prepare pro- ■ posals which would bo acceptable- to i both parties, and that there was a; possibility of aa arrangement' being 1 mado to terminate the strike. That lw understood to bo the action taken upon the suggestion being made that. «a eommitteo of six members fremi both aides of tli© House should bo selected with the object of preparing -legislation to bring about an end of the strike. He believed then that this was What' should be dotte and ho believed so now. Position has chanced. NEW WORKERS MUST BE PROTECTED. The Hon. W. F. Massey (Prime Minister) said that the Lender of the Opposition had said correctly thai when lie (Mr. Massey) last spoko on tttc subject ho informed the House that tho Conciliation Commissioner was preparing proposals to submit to both of the

principal parties to the dispute. Mr. Hally's proposals had not' been accepted by.both parties, and had not been accepted by either party in their entirety. He regretted to hrmi to say that there ivas less prospect of a settlement as between tho patties than there was a, week or t-oii days ago. The position had altered in the meantime. In two of tiio principal centres unions had been formed and registered Under the Arbitration Act.

Mr. Webb; Composed of 6peeial policemen.

Mr. Massey: ''I hope the honourable gontfenijiu wdi not bo allowed to- interrupt." Ho repeated that these Arbitration unions had been formed in two centres of population, and in ono ot those centres there were 400 members of the new union, and in the other between 300 and <100 members. Now if any settlement was to bo- considered those men must bo considered and'their interests protected. A settlement was impossible under any different conditions.

Federation of Labour In this Way. Ho had dono his best from tho first to tho trouble, but tho fact was that . tnero was a very strong piojudiee against tho Federation of Labour. (Hear, hear.) Shipowners and employers said that they had been subjected to a form of pinpricbing and oven tyranny, and they wanted to stop it onco and for all. If th© Federation of Labour would stand out of tho way a Settlement could, ho thought, be arrived at m twenty-four hours.. IJo honestly believed that tho shipowners and employers and producers on tho ono hand ana the watorsiders on tha other could ?°£?° i*° a sa tislactory arrangement if left alono, but all arrangement would bo difficult to make so long as tho federation interfered. Work seemed to be going on fairly well, however, on tho wharves in Auckland and Wellington, and lie hoped to seo an end of the strike within a week from tho present date. Sir J. c. Ward on the Position, Sir Joseph Ward said ho thought the matter was so important that he. was not going to observo silence concerning it, -oven though ho might bo misunderstood. He liad suggested from the beginning that legislation should be passed with a view of preventing a national . calamity, lis objected to stand aside because employers on 'tho one hand and the Federation of Labour on the other could not agree, and allow a national calamity to sweep over the country. Ho had all along said that- the only way.out of tho difliculty was by legislation, and he was still of that opinion. He was of opinion that the matter should he taken out of the hands of both parties and settled by tho Houso on a basis satisfactory to thecountry as a whole. -Ho was not speaking of this subject from a party standpoint, but from a national standpoint. Ho thought both sides of tho liouso should agree upon a Bill to meet- tho present difficulty, and the Standing Orders ojight to bo suspended to allow tho Government to put the Bill through at one sitting, Tho lines of that Bill should bo to prevent the possibility of a recurrence of what existed horo now, and there should ho some proposals put into tho legislation to end the -strikein the- general interests of all classes, irrespective of tho private individuals or parties who so far had.been unable to com© to terms. The Bill should bo of three or four clauses, and should provide that no strike or lock-out should take place without- a secret ballot. slr. Noswortli.v: That is our proposal. Sir Joseph Ward: You have never brought the Bill down. Mr. Massey: It is before tho House now.

Sir Joseph Ward said that Bill did not provide for tlio settlement of tho present- strike. And ho was not going _t<) bo debarred from "expressing his opinion about ilia matter because ho was told that there was a Bill before tho House.' Tho secret ballot should bo taken by an outside authority with scrutineers' from the interested parties. There should bo special penalties imposed Upon every execTitivo officer, whether of the employers or the employees, who was a- party to a breach, and a, lower penalty should be imposed upon others. To Doiermlne Legality of Strike. If a strike was supported by the ballot no penalties should bo imposed, but a ballot should take plnco before" tho whota country was thrown into an industrial conflict such as the present, of which no oiio could tell what the outcome would ho. To meet tho ptosent difficulty a- ballot .should bo taken of the Wellington Watorsidofs' Union now.

Mr. MiisSey: It is not in the bands, of the Watersidcrs' Union.

I Sir Joseph Ward: Then it si Mil Id be put iu the hands of the Watersidors' t Onion, and tho legality of tho ftriko should be determined by tho result of tho ballot. A tribunal should be sot up to endeavour to make a satisfaci tory agreement between tho union and . the employers, to consider proposals from each side f and to submit an agreement which it considered cqnitablo to both sides. If the agreement so submitted was not accepted by both sides, then it should be referred to a tribunal of three Judges of the Supreme Court, Urn Chief Justice mid. two others seUkxjted bx him, aoid tliea should ho the.

final arbitrators. If tlioy accepted it, then it should, be made a binding agreeiniftat by OrdoMn-Camidl. The Impassg. At- tlvo present mom-mi there Was an impasse in tho country. The employers said they would, hare nothing but tho Arbitration Act, and tlio workers would not have it. ■ Mr, Nosworthy: No, tho Federation, of Labour won't have it. Are you going to crawl round tho .Federation of Labouj'? Sir Joseph Ward said that surely tlio Government would not permit ruination to coino to New Zealand, niination to- workers outside those engaged in tho combat. This was tho twentieth day of tho strike and was Parliament to stand aside and allow it to go ou even for another week? In the meantime the whole trade of the country was tied up in the ports—a condition of things that should not bo tolerated for 24 hours—and the House, being tho strongest and the only organisation suitable, should deal with the situation. He suggested that half-a-dozen men from both sides of the House should' come together to establish a system by which neither side iii tho impasse should Ik> -directly considered, but by which tlio strike could bo settled independently of both of them on proper linos. Against Exhaustion Test. I It was a teoot question now, lie | thought, whether agreements made with ; unions registered under tho Trades Unions Act should not be registered i under that Act-. Ho was alluding to tlio i subject because his own coir.mon-sease j told him that the difficulty could not be settled as it now stood, except by a process of exhaustion. Personally, j he thought the i-trike should not have.' taken place-, because the principle at stake was no-t good enough to provoke, a strike. Mr. Wilson: Ko principle at all. Sir .Joseph Ward said that ho received communications q{ a. most distressing character from pcoplo in all ranks, and if Parliament were to stand aside and allow the process of exhaustion to go on., what was th.e. aftermath going to be ? It would mean bitterness, ven.gefttlness, hatred, and suffering. Thousands of innocent people outside of those immediately concerned were involved, and it seemed to Mm ab> solutely imperative that they should not stand by and. allow a matter ov this kind to be settled by exhaustion. Parliament should rise to tho occasion and lay down 'conditions trader which employers and employees were to. work, by establishing a tribunal that could bring about a settlement of tlio trouble without cither being able to say to the other that it had dictated the terms. 'Tlio I-lo.ise ought to bo able to do this. He suggested that the Prime. Minister ought to adjourn the House until 7.30 p.m. and prepare legislation to put through in the evening. If this wej\3 done it would bo tho fittest day's work for New Zealand that had ever been done. The Opposition were prepared to help the Government to do something which would mean that the industries and eommer~e of the Dominion Would go on. Tho trouble should bo taken in jinml ©if national grounds, and settled in tlio interests of the people of iht) country. EFFECT OF THE SPEECH. MR. MASSEY'S OPINION. The Hon. W. F, Massey said he was afraid the honourable gentleman had more faith in legislation than any other member of the Hoflse, Legislation was already on the Statute Book to prevent these strikes,- but he failed to see how legislation was going to .set', tie tlte present (Hear, tear.) Ho was not going, to criticise the honoti) able gentleman's speech, but ho thought it would have been very much bettor in the interests of the country if that speech had not been made. ("'Hoar, r.f'tti'" from the Govcriuttcnt sidoj and ■'No, no" from tlio Opposition side.) Mr. Isitt: The party flute again. Mr. Massey: I am not playing the party flute. Mr. Isitt and Mr. Haiwn: les, you are. , , Mr. Massey; The statements made by itie member for Chris.tchurch 'North and tlio member for litvcrcargill are worthy of those gentlemen, and ars absolutely ■incorrect. a - Mr. Payne: Oh, y<W miserable doagor. Mr. Massey: I draw your attention to that term, Mr, Speaker. Mr. Speaker ordered the member for Grey Lynn to withdraw the -objectionable term, and express regret for having used it. This Mr. Payne did, and ho also at the Speaker's bidding, «t ctico resumed his sent. From Another sourea, Mr, Massey said that the ■ statement made by tho Leader of the Opposition was net new. Ho had already had it submitted to him from another source, and he would not be surprised if they saw it in print that afternoon. Sir J. Ward said that he had not received the ideas from_a-iiybod3',_n.or had, he had any communication with anybody who was a party to the strike. Mr. Massey: I don't say that they have been submitted to me by the workers or. the employers, but I have them in uiv office at the present moment. If tho honourable gentle-man think legislation is going to settle an. industrial difficulty like this, then ho is mistaken, No legislation will compel men to work if they don't want- to work, a3vd no legislation will compel employers to employ men. if they don't waiit to. The Foreigners' influonee. The honourable gentleman assumes that this is a dispute between the waterskiers and the shipowners. It is nothing of tho sort. It is a -dispute 'between the shipowners and a foreign association, tht>- leaders of whom are foreitmers, Mr. Fayfco: What about yourself? Mr. MaS-sey: I am a Now Zcalainier in eve-rv sense of the wordMr. Pay(i6: Then, God help New Zealand 1 Mr. Massey: That is what makes it difficult to settle this dispute. If we Iwsl to deal with Nero? &alancfer's tho matter would have been settfcd days ago. Tlio sooner these people who presumo to lead the workers shako tbo dust of New Zealand from their feet, the better it will be- for the- country. Parties Must Agree First. Mr. Massey went on to say that thero was at present oil the Statute Book, legislation to settle industrial difficulties, and lie _ believed the legislation was' sufficient, but first peupie had to agree. Aiso, there' was legislation befoi-o Parliament now, and he hoped to seo it passed this session, containing other proposals. Mr. lUtssfllJ: We want legislation to. set-tlo the present difficulty, Mr. Massey: No legislation can do p.nv good to settle tho difficulty. If the parties agree, then legislation may be useful. Mr. F.1I: But they won't givo in. Mr. Massey said thoro were signs that wiser counsels weco prevailing. Fourteen ships wore working m Auckland where four hundred men had joined the 'new "Union.. Mr. Webb: Fanners! M'i\ Wilson: They're not mongrels,

arvhow, Mr. 'Massov said bo hoped t-ho w.ork would go <>" iind tlmfc there would bis a good settlement of tlio difficulty. J.I i- W'clili: A settlement-by fa-rce, Mr. Wilson: Yon tried to it.so farce. Arbitration Bill to Proceed. Mr. Sfnssoy referred to lus proposals in the iiill before tlio II on so for tlio settlement of disputes with unions outside the Arbitration Act, and if bo could sot do ajii'tiunc; else thia year be booed

to put this Bill oil the Statute Hook. Sir Joseph Ward interrupted to .say that In) had hoard that the Chairman of the Labour Bills Co mm Mice had said that the Government did not intend to proceed with tho Bill this year. Mr. J. H. Bradncy, chairman of the committee, Said Jio bad never made any such statement, nor had the P.i'iino Minister iiiadc it in iiis hearing. Mr. Massey continued: I 'believe that if this discussion had not taken place this afternoon this difficulty Would iiavo been settled beforo the end of' tho present week, and. I say tho Right, Honourable gentleman is responsible if this diflieulty is prolonged beyoiid the next few days. Tho honourable geiitlcii'ian will bo, I don't say wholly, but partly to blame. I believe, 'however, that the speech was veil meant. Sir Joseph Ward said hi? disagreed with the Prime Minister's opinion that legislation would he of no avail. Ho be-

lieved it was absolutely essential. His was mot in favour of those who had taken the law nrto their own hands. Ho bad been always apposed to that. Nor did bo believe what ho bad said would cause tiro strike, to continue longer. H® had had hundreds of telegrams from people faced with ruin, some- because their- Christmas goods could not be landed. Mt. Okey: They mil all bo landed.. Sit- Joseph Ward declared again that ho had a right to raise such an important matter in tho H-oiise. Mr. Webb Suppressed. Mr. P. C. Webb rose as if .to Speak, but Mr. Speaker tolfl rum that there was-no qnostioji before tlio House. ' Mr,'.Webb: Are Labour members to bo dented tho right- to speak? Is the. gag always, to bp applied to them? Mr. Speaker first t-ild Mr. Webb to re-Mine his seat, which Mr. _Webb did' Then Mr. Speaker advised him. that it Was tho custom of Parliament to allow latitude to the Leader of the Opposition and tho Prime Minister, but. ite cr.?v. Speaker) had 110 power to allow Jilr. Webb or any other member to speak wlic-nlie was not supposed to speak, Mr. Webb then asked whether lie could siieak by the indulgence of the House. , ... Mr. Speaker .said this would bo 111 order, and ho a-sked whether tho HoUfo wished to hear Mr, WolA. jfr. Nosworthy pbjeeted,' amid noisy protest !m the Opposition benches. Mr. Webb: You ought to bo ashamed of yourself. A Question Turned Down. Mr. W. A. Veitch, without notice, asked the Prime Minister whether an opportunity Would be giveii faring the present SeVsion to, discuss tho proseiit ■industrial position. . Mr. Massey. Will tlio honourable gentleman pt'it his Question on. tlio Order l'a-p.er? Mr. Webb; More cowardice.! Mr, Speaker said' that tho honourable, member ..must iiiat continue with such.

later jec-tionis. If lie did other steps wot)J tave to lio taken. Tlie Hoi'.so then proccixled to ordinary, business.