A CHEVIOT SECTION.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1887, 23 October 1913, Page 4

A CHEVIOT SECTION.

OPPOSITION CHARGES DISPROVED, LAND COMMITTEE'S REPORT. ■ Mr. E. NEWMAN, on behalf of the Lands Committee/ presented tho 'fol-'' -' lowing reort upon papers regarding the ■Bills ut public dilution of (Section 20, Block IX, Cheviot,, ..containing 8 -ncros 2 roods 12 perches:—"The Lands Committee has the honour to report that it- has carefully considered the ■matter, and has examined tho follow- • ing witnesses: —J. Strauclion, UnderSecretary for Crown Lands; 0, It. J'ollen, Commissioner of Crown Lands', Canterbury; J, Gibson, all ex-membcr of tho Canterbury Land Board : T. Geo, . member of tho Canterbury Land Board: ,J. R-entoul, bee farmer, Cheviot; an<l IS. It. Holton. sheep farmer, Cheviot. ■ That, having lieard the ovidenco of the witnesses above-mentioned, the commit- . too is of opinion that there is not the slightest evidence to support tho sug- '■: gestioii that either tho Minister of i Lands or the Lands Department Was ; actuated or fnjluenced by political mo- ■ tives in deciding to offer tho section ; bv auction umler the conditions of the ■ . Cheviot Estate Disposition Act, 1893, ] and that tho statement in ado by Mr. j Qjbsnn, in his letter quoted bv Mr. Q. ■ \V. Forbes, M.l\, which reads as fol- j loivs ( " 'Mr. Massey's . supporters had ap- , preached him to allow the section to j remain in the possession of tiro provious tenant who farms tho adjoining . land,'- ; was without foundation in fact. A copy of tho minutes of proceedings aiid evidence taken is attached hereto;" j "An Unusual Case," ( 1 Mr. G, W. FORBES (Hurimui) 1 said 1 that tln> position was that no evidence i could be brought as to what influence < had been brought to bear upon the < Minister of Lands, because any in- s formation on the subject would bo of a J confidential nature. Under tho eir- < cumstances lie had accepted the Minis- J ter's assurance that he had not been £ approached. £iis Contention that an { unusual interference had taken place in i connection with the disposal of this. c section at Cheviot had been bortio out. j Mr. Massey: Not unusual. 1 v ■ Mr. Forbes: Most unusual. He said c that the Under-Secretary for Lands and other officials had testified that there had been unusual interference. lis went, on to deal with tho matter in do- c taiL The fact that the disposal of the ( section had unusual features, ho stated, I had drawn public attention to it. Mr. j Strauclion (Under-Secretary for Lands) p had stated iii evidence that this was c the only case in his experience in Which o the Department had disposed of a sec- s tion against tho decision of the Can- p terbury Land Board. This aspect of the h lantier had i'iso to tho suggestion i: that political influence had been brought u to boar. No ovidenco had been called d before the committee to explain why ii the ordinary procedure had been do- c parted irom. Mr.. Forbes contended r that the decision of a Ljind Board com- t posed of practical men who were in sym- 1 pat by with farmers, should not to & lightly set aside. Actions of this kind J were bound to have certain construc- ti tions placed upon them, slid ho con- ti siderod that ho had done his duty iii u bringing tho matter before tho House, oi A Satisfactory Report, flic PRIME MINISTER said that the si member lgr Hurunui had omitted to in- gi lorm the Hotiso upon several important n; points. He had not stated that the vi matter was referred to the Lands Cam'- si liuttee at his (Mr. Forbes's) suggestion, tl that he was a member of. that com- ti ii.itiee, and that he voted for the report di Mmigitt doivh. t j, Mr. Forbes : I stated that. hi Tho Prime Minister snid that ho was di glad tile honourable member admitted l his. The admission had an important tli hearing. Tho report of the committee n v.as to the effort- that no improper in- m llr.enco had been employed in connec- ( j< : tion with this matter, and that tlie a statements made b,v mi individual |, c named O'ibson, formerly a member cf ; IT the Caiiterbury Land Board, were without fonmTiitinn in fact. a , Mr. Russell: Why rei'er to Mr. Gibson in such contemptuous terms? He i* a thorough gentleman, and entitled to be treated with courtesy. Thp Prime Minister: I will perhaps establish another side of tho aueßtiou u

before I sit down so far as Mr. Gibson is concerned. A statement by Sir. I'o.rbes that only official files had been before Hits committee was incorrect. Tho witnesses called wero Mr. Strauehon (Under-Secretary for Lands), Mr. Pollen (Commissioner of Crown Lands in Canterbury), Mr. Gibson, a present member of tho Land Hoard, and tlio mail who had occupied tho land in question for years. Every possible information had been supplied to mcmbors of tlio Lands Committee for tho reason that tho Government wanted this thing silted to tho very bottom. Tho comlmtteo had obtained a very fair idea of wlirtt had taken place in regard to this snmll section at Cheviot. A Conspiracy, Mr. Forbes had quoted Mr. Strauchon as saying that ho know of 110 other case ni tho decision of tho Canterbury I,and Board had been revised by tho Minister. As a fact Mr. Stmuchon had stated that it was quite a common thing for tho Minister'to roverso the decision of a Land Board* and had supplied a list of cases in which thm had been done. Ho (tlio Minister) felt certain that there wero thousands of cases in which it had been done. It was his opinion after hearing tho evidence before tho coinmitteo that there 1 ° rUß ii'■ lvl , c , kcd conspiracy to n f u ". y t . luß section from tho settlor who had occupied it for tlio last vineyard? " S ° rt ° f Mr iorbes: Da you say the Oahteracy? WBS in that J! r - Massey: No I sav that there a view £ i a - ? v,clt ?d conspiracy'with J ", tobnngWß influence to bear upon the Canterbury Land Board nhd ]h„ UC Vi t< \ tako a "' n -Y the land from the settler who occupied it. To a oue<u Jlinist < ii ; «pUod .that !lw+i Y cr - y slightest .idea tion were? 10 0t tlro sett l« in quesporter of'yours^ 0 " S 0 Str ° ng BHp " • ;Hr Mass ®y: That speaks well for his intelligence, He added that an attempt had been made to dispossess this man ot his land in his old ago. Mr. IVitty: He only had a yearly tenancy and might have had to go at any time. K ul Mr. Maissey: That is am of the disadvantages of the leaSchold-ono of the benefits of tho freehold., When tho Prime Miiiister sat down' there was still time to put tho question, .but i Messrs. Witty and Buddo bate sm 00U3, y carry o-n the deAn Amendment. +i Jio wbulcj move the following amendment: "That in tlio interests settlement, more settle meiit, and still more sct-tletueiit tho sefc- • tion mentioned 1 should bo let on renewable lease." Mr. Witty; said that the Prime Minister had tried to "talk out" tho motion. That was ono of tlie reasons that ho Was moving this amendmenfc. i, did not— 3 r ou call. • 011 you like. Tho houroTs.3op,m, having arrived, the House adjourned without taking any definite action in regard to the Cheviot report. ; Technically it was. for tho time being, "talked l out." ' , RIVER BOARDS. The' amendments made. by the ComJ?. 1 ,, 111 K'Ver Board Amendment Bill (the Hon, A. L, Hordman) were agreed to, and the Bill was read athird time and passed. WATER SUPPLY. The amendments mado by tho Conimitteo in tho Water Supply Amendment Bill (tlio Hon. A. L. 'Herdman) were agreed to, and the Bill Was read ajthird JTJK" RANCITAfKf SWAMP. The Ra-ngitaiki Land Drainage Amendment Bill (the Hon. W. F. Massoy) ivas read, a third time., and passed." POLICE FORCE. THE RIGHT OF APPEAL. Tho Hon. A, L. HERDMAN moved the- third reading of tho Police Force Mr. G. WITTY (Ricoarton) said he was sorry the. Minister had not allowed the police to iiave the right of appeal which members of tho Opposition had- asked for them. .Silt JUSEt'H WARD also expressed regret that tile Minister could liot see ins way to accept iu Committee ait amendment which would havo given the police a satisfactory right ot appeal., Ihe Work of tho Railway l)e----pa it ment and .the Post and Telegraph. JJepartmeut would neve.- have run so smoothly but for the satisfactory-bpera-i tioii of the appeal system, lie recognised that discipline must be maintained m the Polio© Force, but ho did not admit that members of tlio Force were in a yery different position from certain members of the Postal and Telegraph service. It had been proved to inis satisfaction that it was a good thing to have a, public inquiry by the Appeal Board into the decisions of a superior officer. He regarded appeuls as a line check on those officers, and on tho Ministers, who were human, and therefore liable to err, with tlio best of intentions. He was at a less to understand why tho Minister had chained his opinioiis, and opposed a proposal similar to one which 'lie had supported' as a private member. Ho also thought the Minister had made a mistake in refusing to allow the police to form an association similar to ohose associations existing in other branches of the Public Service. Ho believed an association in the Police Force would result m the removal of imaginary grievances which would cause friction, and tend to create disaffestion in tho Sorvico. Appeals and this Association, Mr-. W. A. VEITQH {Wangamii) put on record tho protests he had .made in Oommitteo against the passage of the Bill in its present shape. His chief objection to the Bill was tlio btgua Appeal Board, which would afford au officer no protection against tlio injustice of. a superior officer. The Minister had said that he oould ' not give the police a fuller right of _ appeal lest it should bo subversive of diteiplino in tho Force, but surely it was not neressary to perpetuate injustice in order to maintain discipline. His own idea was that it would be better in every way if the police wore given nu right whatever of appeal instead of : tho apparent right now given to thoiii. Tho arrangement for appeals was l'ar- ■ eical, and he was sure that if the : Minister had given full consideration , to tho clauso ho would not have retniued it in the Bill. Ho could not ' understand on-what ground tlio forming J of an association in the Polico Force could be opposed. Every branch of the ! sorvico had como through exactly the sumo experience as tho. polico were now i going through. Tho formation of mi association tn tho Railways 'had been ' very strongly opposed for the very 1 same reasons as wore now urged against j the police organisation, but tho forma-t-ion of the society had not destroyed f Jiscipline, and had not lessened the effi- ; iieiicy of tho service. The police already J lad grave responsibilities, unpleasant luties, and not very good pay, They ftad to be trusted now every hour of J lie day and night. Why not trust them fi little farther, and trust them to form 1 m association P Ho was sure it would a lo good; and lie believed that within v i very little while an association would ® >o formed which would bring about an " mprovoment in the Force, Mr. J. PAYNE (Grev Lynn) also ngue-d -that tho police should have an Appeal Board, and should be allowed 1' o nave an association. n Approval of tho Bill, Mr. J. A. HAJfAN (Invorcargill) f5 aid that the fixing of a compulsory B

i retiring ago would be a.useful broVisiSn, in that- it would open the path to pro--1 motion for zealous and efficient officers. lie was glad to «00, also, that the pro- " vision in tho law by which polico officers wero given monetary rewards for special ' services had been deleted. This bad t been a dangerous provision, liablo to 3 lead to abusos. It had already given _ rise to jealousy. He was sorry tlio _ Appeal Board was not differently conf stitut-ed. Ho would have lilted to have j seen a provision in tho Bill to permit r officers to appeal against the decision »f ' a superior officer in regard to claims £ for promotion. Generally ho approved , the Bill, and he was glacl to see it goiiiii: on tho Statute Hook. _ Mr. P. C. WEBB (Grey) urged tho right of tho police to organise. If 1m could do anything to assist tlio polico to organise in spite of the law, he ' would do it.. THE MINISTER REPLIES, } j* A GOOD BILL FOR THE FORCE. i Tho Hon. A. L. HER.DMAN, in re- ) ply, said that if any proof wero necesj sary that it would list be- Wise to allow - t tho polico to form an association, it was . furnished by tho sjiEech of the member 3 for Grey, who had expressed his iiiten--5 tion to organise the Forco. Could hon, j members imagine what would be tho' t position if the Polico Forco wero orgalif ised by tho member for Grey? What Would havo happened at the tiino of . the Waihi strike when tho polico w*ere , sent to Waihi to protect lifo anil pro-. prtvj if tho polico had been controlled 5 by tho member for GreyP Thei'o would t have been.llo protection for property, r and littio protection for lifo. Had supii 1 a condition of things existed, there i would have been bloodshed, ho had no . doubt, When -tho association was first ; mooted in Auckland it was tinder the I control of Labour leaders, and ho Minis- . ter who knew his business would allow til the Police Force aft association under . tho influence of any political party. He had been very gratified to hoar tha , member foi- lnvercargill, who took a . great _ interest in. and had had some ! experience ofj the administration of the Police Force, oxpresß approval of the , Bill. ; Charges Disproved. The nam© of Constable Smythe had . been mentioned in the debate. Curious- , -ly enough, during -.tho 'last- fifteen months a. number of attacks had been i made on tlio administration of the , Force ii-i regard to two or three .matters; but not olio of tlio attacks had beeA ' , justified. It was alleged; that Constable"' i.»niytlio had been harshly dealt with, and run out of tlio Force without beiiift given an opportunity to state his defence. Tho man had bee.il concerned in the starting of tho Polico Associa* tion -at Auckland, and ho seemed also to bo a protege of the; member for Grey. In actual fact, Coii.st.ablo Smytlio was dismissed from tho force for ciisobeyihg the orders of his seiiior sergeafttj and not onjy that, hut lor making a false entry, .ill a book.. Tho Commission thought, and, he . (Mr. Herdnian) thought, that such a man had no right -to remain in the Force,'and that the Force was well rid of. .him. Constable " Smythe had petitioned Parliament, and • a committee of the House had investigated the petition. Efe believed he was' right iu saying that that, committee . unauitnoilfuy refused to uia : k© & jGcriihineiidationj'u his favour, The effect of' : that .decision was that tlio man had no right to remain in the Force. Tha - i administration had been blamed ' also because they , dismissed from t-Jie Forco a mail 80W11 iii Christ-, church. He also petitioned Parliament.H>3 liacl ventilated llis grievance before a, Parliamentary Committee, and ' he fMr. Herdman) did not thiiik olio meiiibcr of the committee, which included' tho ■nieiubeij.afor.ellicc.iu'to'iij-.i:.w]io ipre--r-J----sented tile'--petition ' to' Parlia-meii't, would defend, tho man's conduet.- At--, ,'n tacks had also bfeeii made on tlio police 'K iu connection with .tho committal of aii -.i unfortunate .man..to tho Auckland Men- .•. tal Hospital. Leading articles had been.--written about thafc case ? abusing Com- • missioiier Cullen. A Parliainentai'y Com- i lnittee had.investigated that case- a 150.,-.;: and Mr. Vigor Brown, the only Oppo-aitio-ii, niemher of tlio committee, li-ad >r'. voted with the majority, ■which decided that tho prayer of tho petitioner should not bo granted. . i Benefits for tha Forco. The Bill which was before the House would vastly improve the position of Die -. Polico Force of Ne\v Zealand. This he said on the authority of police officers, and thoso competent to judge, Dospitewhat had boon said about inquiries, a ltd tlio Board of Appeal, he believed tlio polico ol this country were moro certain now of obtaining justice than they ever had been boforo. Tlioy liad oppdrtunities of ventilating their grievances which tlioy never had before.'' Reference had been mado to the fact , that tho Minister appointed tho Board of Appeal, and that the Minister could . veto the decision of tlio hoard; hut in the Railway Department how tho Minister could veto the decision of 'the board. Tho tribunal to hear an appeal by an officer was to consist- of a magistrate, an 'officer of the Force senior or equal iii rank to the appellant, and-an--other person not a member of tlio Farce.. This was surely a perfect tribunal. .An lion, member: It is appointed by the Minister. Mr. Herdman; Why should not the Minister appoint it ? My experience of . .political, lifo is that you can. trusf tlio : Minister of Justice to apoint a fair, tribunal. Tho mombor for. luvorcargiil - had stated, lie 6aid, that officers could not appeal against a decision in regard to promotion. This, however, was provided for in tlio regulations, and an officer could apply to a proper tribunal to have his elalin iil-veafigated, One difficulty existing in the admin- . istration of the l'oiico Farce was "lie oxistence of jealousy betweou tlio plain clothes and the uniform branches of tho Force. It was fto.t easy for a Minister to get over tho difficulty wliich undoubtedly existed. . . . ' ■ Mr. Hanaiu You will have to separate them yet. Mr. Herdman said he did not know What might havo to lie done yet, but this and other matters could be very . well dealt with by tho committee, to bxV sot up under tho Bill. This committee could be of imniense assistance to tlio Commissioner. New Zealand had uad an exceptionally good Force in the past, and! in the last fifteen-months it had been proved that the members of ihe Force could be trusted to do their duty with forbearance and courage, Tho people of New Zealand ought to bn proud- of their Force. It Was impossible to effect in fifteen months all tlio reforriis necessary to tlio'Force, It was impracticable in this country to give tlio ' men a six-days' l week. Conditions here would not permit of if, but other concessions had been given to tho men. Ho did not think Parliament would vote a sum of niDiiey sufficient, to enable, tho Government to increase tholoreot'o an extent to enable the men to got one day off in tho week. No such arrangement could ever lie made in the country districts, although it might be done at , cro.at cast in tlio cities. He beuevea, however, that the general conditions or tho Police Force iii New ZealantJ weio hotter than in any Polico Force (n any othor part of the British Dominions. The Com miss inner said that more had been done in the last twelve months to improve conditions in the Force than in dnv dccQflo KiJlcc -ho Hnd locon Coiiitfcctcd with the Force. Ho enumerated several concessions granted to tho polico during his term of administration. The Division. 1 A division wan called by Messrs. I'n.vne-aml Webb. The third feading was cno-ied by 45 votes to .10. Following was the division HitAyes (48)•• Allen, Anderson, Bell, J,. Bollard, R. F. Bollard, Briwlney, Buiek, ' Buxton, Campbell, Clark A Coates,

Craigio, Davey,,Dickson, Escott, Fisher, Fraser, Guthrie, Hanan, Harris, Hordman, Horries, Hino, Hunter, Leo, MacDonald, Malcolm, Mander, Massey E. Newman, Okey, Pcarce, Pomare,_ I'cedi R, H. Rhodes; Scott, F. H. Smith, R. W. Smith, Statham, Sykes, G. M. Thomson, Ward, Wilkinson, >* llson, lYoung. -mi Noes (19): Atmoro, Colvin, Ell, Forbes, Glover, Isitt, Laurenson, M Callnm, M'Konzio, Ngata, Payne, Poland, Rangihiroa, Robertson, Seddon, J. C. Thomson, Veitch. Webb, Witty. Mr. H. M. CAMPBELL (Hawke's Bay) explained that he had made a mistake with his vote. He had been paired with Sir James Carroll, and lie had forgotten his pair, and voted with the "Ayes." He;wished to have his vote recorded with the "Noes," as he believed Sir James Carroll would have voted with them. Mr. Speaker permitted the reversal bf the vote, and this made the voting U to 20.