LAND DEBATE.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1876, 9 October 1913, Page 4

LAND DEBATE.

MORE ABOUT THE FREEHOLD. THE BALFOUR ESTATE. The second-rcading debate upon the Land Bill was resumed at 3.5 p.m. Jlr. J. H. ESCOTT (l'ahiatua) contended that tho granting of the freehold to the Crown tenants was not an act of generosity, but an act of gratitude warranted by their labours. Ttlo Bill would confer a great benefit upon the settlers of tho Dominion, and tho State would not be robbed of anything at all, but would reecive fair valuo for its interests in the leases. At tho same time, greater security of tcnuro would bo given to the holders of the land. Ho referred to tho many advantages which settlers derived from tho freehold, but said that as the leasehold was a step-ping-stone 14) the freehold ho favoured tho optional tenure. He expressed warm approval of the provision, in Clause 44, that the revenue derived from lands in certain districts shall, for specified periods, bo applied towards tho construction of roads ill or into such districts. This would bo of special assistance to the people in tho backblocks. Mr. Escott also expressed approval of Section 52, which deals with the acquisition of private lands for settlement, Ho referred to the Balfour Estate of. 334G acres, near Pahiatua, as a ease in point. The residents of I aluatua, he said, had been anxious for many years that this estate should bo acquired and cut up for settlement. So far, however, tho Land Purchase Board had boon unable to come to an agreement with the owner of tho estate as to terms. He hoped that a price would be put upon 'the estate which would enable tho Stato to acquire it as tho bringing of it into closer settlement would materially advanco the prosperity of tho town of Pahiatua and the surrounding district. Ths Vanishing Public Estate. Tho Hon. J. A. MILLAR (Dunodin West) said that ono would think, to read the Bill, that wo had an enormous amount of land to deal with and wanted to get rid of it as rapidly as possiblo. As a matter of fact, only 100,000 acres of first-class land remained in tho hands of tho State to bo dealt with.. 'It was not promoting settlement, lie contended, to make a Crown tenant a freeholder. Tho real freeholder, in many cases, was not the man whose name was on the front of a title-deed, but the man whoso name "was on tho back of 'the dml as mortgagor. Before many years, lie dcci'ared, there would be ail entire revolution in the Old Country in regard to the freehold. Ho objected to tho Government saying, in this country: "\\e are not going to lease as landlords, but wo will allow private individuals to do it." Tho only way to satisfy tho demand .for land was to enforce limitation provisions and compel owners who held land in excess of a stated amount to dispose of it. Tho sort of thing that could Tiappon under tho present system was exemplified ill what had happened at tho To Akau ballot, whole a man who had drawn a section was given £700 for his interest in it before'he left the room. Mr. Massey: When was that? Jlr. Millar: When the ballot was taken; about three years ago. The pioneering that remained to be done in this country, ho continued, was mighty 'larmless. A pioneer who lived more tfian twenty miles away from another residence could not bo found in any part of New Zealand. Neither could a settler bo found who had not a road within 20 miles of his holding. When several members interjected denials, Jlr. Jlillar asked whore such holdings were to be found. Moriibers: In the North Auckland district. Mr. Millar: 1 have not.seen it. Tho Coroniandel Peninsula, lie added, was a uoscrt given over to mining. No farmer would go there. Mr. T. W. Rhodes: Some of tho best land in tho country. Mr. Millar said that tho bulk of NewZealand land had how been provided with means of access by 'road or railway. 'Ho contended that Crown tenants should only bo allowed to purchase their Holding at present values. Workers and the Country. Tho time was coming, Mr. ' Millar went on to remark, when the workers of t'ffo Dominion would tako action. Ho was not talking as a Labour man, but of what he know would tako place. Tho workers knew that their weakness was in tho country districts now, and they wbiiTa copy what had been dono in Australia whore tho workers were so well organised that they wero ablo to capture pretty well the whole of the Senate and tho House as well. _ In Now Zealand these men wero practically being told to go into tho country and organise tho country workers. Tlioso in tlie cities we're already organised and tiio moment the workers wero organised in tho country thero would be a revolution. Ho would not be there to see it, Tiut ho honestly believed that the names of tho men wlio wero in favour of selli'Tlg file Crown leases would be ctirscd. lie knew what was coming as surely as ho knew that ho was talking there. Finally, Mr. Millar stated that ho regretted exceedingly that lie had been absent from tho Hotiso last'season. Had ho been there he would have endeavoured to put up a fight for the leasehold. What was loft was not worth fighting for now. The Small Farmers' Tenure. Mr. C. A. WILKINSON (Egmont) said that ho j did.not agree with tho last speaker. Ho did not fear that a revolution would tako place in hostility to the freehold policy of tho Government. The freehold did not necessarily menu largo areas. Taranaki was a country of freeholders, and it was also a country of small farmers. What tho freehold did secure was better farming. It seemed to him that it would bo hopeless for Mr. LsUireuson and other OppSsition members who clung to tho leasehold to look for any political advancement in this country unless they changed their views on the la.nd question. Ho recommended these members, if they wished to make the leasehold popular, to reduco tho rentals to two and a half per cent., as was done in New South Wales. The conditions that settlers in the New Zealand back-eoun-trv had to onduro at the present timo niado life hardly worth living, and under tho circumstances they should bo given some consideration in the matter of tcnuro and conditions. If it was right that tho State should tako the increment on land, it was also right that it should ta.ko tho increment upon businesses. Mr. Wilson: On pubs! Mr. Wilkinson: l'es, on pubs. I hold an advertisement offering for sale a hotel in Hawke's Bay. The prico asked for tho goodwill of the leaso—and no doubt the lease was a short one — was no less than £5000. Mr. Wilson: That's a cheap one, £20,000 is asked sometimes. Mr. Wilkinson said that ho favoured an increase in tho graduated land tax to a reasonable extent, but did not wislt to see land confiscated. In connection with tho graduated tax, there should be a complete system of classifying lands. Holders of rough outlying country of no great valuo should not bo taxed in tho same proportion as occupiers of hotter land. Ho denied that tho small farmer was indebted to tho Liberal Government. Jlr. Witty's statement that men established upon the land under a leasehold policy had turned round and bitten the hand that fed tlioni would not be popular in country districts. Ho considered that tho prospects of tho country had never been better than at the present timo. More Objoctors. Mr. J. ROBERTSON (Otaki) on- r J

dorsed what had been sjiid by the member for Dunedin West (Air. Millar) in criticism of the Bill. lie contended that tho promotion of tho freehold in j this country would tend to produco a population of needy cultivators with ' their holdings mortgaged lo tho hilt. Air. J. CllAlGljj (,'liniaru) said that he would record his voto against tho Bill. He declared that leaseholders, when they sold out, a.nd made money, all joined the Reform Party. (.Government members: Hear, hear.) Mr. Anderson: What about yourself? Air. Craigie contended that no Stato land should he sold. He did not think tho Government had a mandate from the people to break tho leasehold policy. They had not been returned by a majority of the people, but had obtained power owing to a combination of circumstances. He believed that a majority of the peoplo would vote against the freehold on the morrow if the matter wero properly explained. Tho only way that ho Knew of promoting closer settlement was to increase tho graduated land tax. Air. T. K. SIDE? (Dunedin South) said that the purpose of the Bill scorned to bo to alienate the freehold of . all lands of tho Crown except the endowment lands, and probably but for tho fact that the Liberal party had reserved the endowments, the present Government would have now proposed to alienate all the Crown lands. He argued that tho renewable lease was tho most desirable form of tenuro, especially for the mail of small means. He quit? realised, however, that tho sentiment of the country was for tho freehold. Ho had always stood for two things in connection with land —that tho land should bo occupied, and that aggregation should be prevented. Tho Real Difficulty. . Mr. R. W. SMITH (Waimarino) said ha would support the motion to commit the Bill, but he was among those who thought tho Bill did not go far enough. Ho was disappointed to find that tho Bill did not make provision for tho placing of a single now settler on tlio land. It permitted certain classes of people to go on the land, but tho real difficulty now was not to find settlers, but to find land for them. This difficulty tho Bill did not touch. But thero was no doubt that the tenuro of the future must bo a limited freehold, and in his opinion the limitation must be brought about by an increased graduated land tax. Wliat was thero in tho Bill to limit tho size of holdings? Certainly there was a clause in the Bill purporting to do this, but it would bo of no avail. Tho first thing tho Bill should have provided for was some really effective method of preventing aggregation. What was the uso of buying estates for subdivision on the one hand, and allowing roaggregation to go on at the same time to such a degree that it nullified all the good the Government did by purchasing a few estates? Wanganui Member's Views. Mr. W. A. VEITUH (Wanganui) said ho was quite sure that a time would como when tho rank and filo of tho peoplo of this country would declaro that the principle of tlio freehold was a bad one, and would put an end to it. Ho contended that if State tenants had a right to buy their holdings, private tenants had an equal right. A great deal could be done to improve tlio tenuro upon .which Grown lands wero. let, without giving tho right to acquire tho freehold. At least, lie urged, tho position of tenants occupying endowment lands should be revised. It this wero not dono Parliament would liavo to face, in tho future, a serious agitation on tho part of Crown tenants. The things which should be provided for were, in his opinion: Bettor conditions of lease for holders ,of Crown leases; better facilities for the poor man to got on.tho land; an increased graduated tax; some protection lor landless peoplo who had no hopo or ever getting tho freehold. . Air. J. A. HANAN (lnvcrcargill) said that in the- Bill before tlio House the interests, needs, and requirements ot tho'moment were being satisfied, and those of tho future were being sacrificed. Ho believed that the title to land should rest upon use and industrial occupation. Largo areas of cultivable land adjacent to railways, lie stated, wero at present being allowed to Ho idle. Tho system of purchasing land for settlement must now be regarded as obsolete, and must givo place to ail. increased graduated land tax. M hat Now Zealand wanted was not increased land values, but cheap land, lo tlio workers cheap land meant plenty or work and good wages. Not Far Enough. Air H. M. CAMPBELL (Hawke's Bay) said he would not have spoken but that some of the statements made by tho last speaker had beon so ridiculous as to demand some explanation. Air. Hanan had referred to Sir John Findlay's report on "Forest Gate, as shoAving the futility of- the Government going to tho Court to acquire estates He (AIV. Campbell) thought the Government of tho day got what was their duo. They had sought to take aw : ay from a, widow land which had been given to her husband for services' rendered during the Maori war. The action had been little short of indecent, and feeling had run vciy hij?h about it. In the end the Court had made the widow a very fair award. Referring to tho Bill, lie saul that Clause 10 appealed lo him very strongly, as it would give settlors . an opportunity to got a revaluation if their holdings wero valued at too high rates. He held, also, that tho exemption from residenca clauses could not do tho slightest harm, but on the contrary would do a great deal of good. His "only objection to tho .Bill was that it did not go far enough in granting tho freehold. His own opinion was that tho freehold should be givon to tho occupiers of small grazingruns, and that it should be made to apply equally to all classcs of Crown lands. Air. J. G. COATES (Kaipara) challenged the statement of the member for lnvcrcargill that the leasehold tenure prevented speculative trafficking in land. The honourable meriiber could not be aware of what was actually going on in tho country. In actual fact, more speculation was carried on in leasehold land than in freehold land. He himself was a strong freeholder, and tho demand for the freehold throughout tlio country whs so strong that no Government could withstand it and hold office. The reason why 111011 on the land demanded the freehold was that it was tho only satisfactory tenuro for them. In this Bill the first attempt was being made to prevent aggregation, and he believed tho clause would not be found to bo ineffective. Ho admitted that thero must yet bo an increaso in tho graduated land tax, but a sudden imposition of a heavy graduated tax without notice would not be fair to many very good sottlers, and would cause ejicli consternation that it would really do tho country harm. He did not agree that the Bill. would not promote settlement. Ho believed the Bill wtis ono of the best that lmd come before tho House, and that it would promote vigorous settlement. The Tenure Fetish. Air. H. ATAIOIIE (Nelson) quoted figures to show tho increase ill the unimproved value of land in Now Zealand over a period of years., This was a field of taxation that had not been scratched by the Government. He believed in the freehold—ho was even prepared to go further than other honourable gentlemen in this —being of opinion that the question of tenure was merely a. fetish. Whether land was held as Crown leasehold or freehold, it still paid dues to tho Crown either as rent or as tax. It had to bear its burden in any case, and it could not more easily escape it under freehold than under loasohold tenuro. Tho laud problem of the future .was not that of tenuro, hut

of closer settlement, and ho argued that no honest attempt was mado in tlio Bill to promote close settlement. '1 lie only method that would ho really cflectivo m settling the land would bo a brealungup tax, not tho play-thing, graduated tax introduced by tho Minister of Finance last year and again this year. -Mr. J. V. BIiOWN (Napier) said he was mostly concerned as to whether the Bill would promote settlement in Hawke's Bay or not, and ho did not think the Government wero anxious,to acquire tho big estates in that district. Justified Exlstonoe. Air. V. H. REED (Bay of Islands) discussed various clauses of the Bill in detail. Ho considered that the Land Bills of last year and tiiis year had alone justified the existence of the present Government. Tho Bills marked a great victory for the freehold. It was not necessary for him to say that ho was a strong freeholder, and ho was a freeholder for threo reasons. The freeholder could borrow money on tho open market, tho leaseholder was restricted to the Government. The freeholder was subject to no irksoino conditions ; tho leaseholder was subject to periodical inspections, and he had to got the consent of tho Government before ho could transfer or mortgage hia land. The freeholder's titlo was absolutely secure; the leaseholder's titlo was not, and they had had an illustration of tlio insecurity of it in the debate in the House in tho 1909 session. Labour Members. Air. P. H. WEBB (Grey) said that although freeholders wero in a majority in the House, ho felt sure that the •leaseholders had, tlio backing of the great majority in tho democracy of Now Zealand. The Bill represented -l legal robbory of tho heritage of the people. The present Opposition had failed to do .something to settlo tho land question, when they wero in power, because included in their ranks thero had been men who wero bitterly Tory at heart. Members who acquiesced in tho further alienation of Crown lands would bo aiding and abetting legalised theft. He was going to oppose bitterly tho system of private ownership of land, being convinced that it was unsonnd. Air. A. H. I-lINDAIARSH (Wellington South) said it appoared that there was a strong demand for leasehold sections. They were sometimes Isold for as much as £15 or £16 an aero. This he had learned in tho debate, so that it was really very hard to understand what wore tho objections to the leasehold if one listened only to the arguments. The Government had, ho said, declared for the principle of land settlement, and they had by the imposition of a graduated tax begun to treat tho largo landowners as public enemies. Having admitted so much, they should impose a penal tax which would bo really effective. Hawke's Bay especially ought to bo subdivided. That province was quite adequate to support a population of 250,000 people. Air. J. A.' YOUNG (Waikato) said tho line of demarcation between tho parties at last election was that between tho leasehold and the freehold. The main purpose of the Bill was to givo the freehold to L.I.P. tenants, but tho Bill did not propose to fixo tho freehold willy-nilly upon any settlers. All that they were offered was tho option of the freehold. Mr. H. G. ELL (Ohristehurch South; spoke in defence or tho leasehold, and said that he regretted exceedingly that Parliament had decided to sell tho huma held under lease-in-pcrpetuity. Tho land policy of this country was being dictated by selfish interests, and national interests had not been held up before tho Hotlso. He denied that bettor results were attained under tho freehold than under tho leasehold.