REPORTS PRODUCED.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1857, 17 September 1913, Page 4

REPORTS PRODUCED.

MORE BONES OF CONTENTION.

DEBATING PROCEDURE.

Wlion tho Committee resumed it seemed likely that matters would go on as drearily as ever, but a quarter' of an hour later affairs took, another turn.At 2.45 p.m. the Prime Minister roso to mako an announcement. Ho said that ho had stated at a much earlier etago that the reports which were wanted would bo circulated as soon ns tho Printing Ofiico could supply them, and that in tho meantimo all possible information would be givon to tho Committee by tho Minister in charge. That had been dono. "Every question," he continued, "so far as I am able to judgo, has been satisfactorily answered by the Minister." i Opposition denials. The Primo Minister: I am now in a position to say that tho reports aro available. The roports in question, be stated, wero those relating to mental hospitals, tho Cook Islands, and tho Tourist Department.. No doubt if honourable members looked they would find tho reports in" their boxes. "The Time of the Country." Sir Josoph Ward said that ho was glad to hear tho statomont by tho Primo Minister. If the course recommended by him at four o'clock" on Saturday morning had beon taken tho House would navo adjourned and would havo re-entered Committee of Supply on Tuesday (that day) without debate. Tlie time of tho country, lie continued, had not boon wasted. It was tlio time of members themselves that had been taken up on Saturday, and on tho previous day. ' . Mr. Massey: And tho country s "'sir 7 Joseph Ward said that what, ho wanted to ask tlio Prime Minister to do was to report progress and circulate the reports'. That was the only way in which thoy could be circulated. Mr. Massey: Not at all. Sir Joseph Ward disagreed. Ho contended that every report had 1 to bo presented to tho House, and that when it was presented any member had a right to discuss it. Ho urged that progress should bo reported, so that tlio ropovts could-bo laid on tho tablo. If this wcro dbno, ho promised no obstacle would be offered to going back into Committee. That was the proper course. Ho wanted to mako a statement himsolf, and could not do it in Committee because the Chairman would rulo him out of ordor, He did not want to prolong the sittine. although, with

liis colleagues, ho accepted full responsibility for what had been done. The Primo Minister said that tho reports had been laid upon tho table of the Legislative* Council at 2.30 p.m. tliat afternoon, and circulated for tho benefit and uso of' members of both Houses. Tho honourablo gentleman woidd soo that nothing wrong hail been done. Tho samo thing had been dono repeatedly. Tho honourable gentleman (Sir Joseph Ward) had stated that ho proposed to- state his sido of tho question. Mr. Russell: You don't laioiv what questions the honourablo momber proposed to speak about. Mr. Massey: No, but I can satisfy members, of tho House and tho peoplo of tilio country, from my point of view, with regard to what has been dono. About Newspapers. Mr. Hanan: Your papers don't say so. ■Mr. Ma-ssoy: I don't care two pms for tho.opinion of any paper in New Zealand. Tho opinion of any paper is just the opinion of a man who sits behind, a 'desk far tho time beni ? , and my opinion ■is - just as good as his. If I had cared for-the-opinions of any panei-s I would not'be' in tho position that I oocupy to-day.' Finally, he asked the House to do some business before considering tho question of reporting Pr Sir C Joseph' Ward protested strongly against tho" innovation introduced by tho Primo Minister in regard to reports on the ground that it limited discussion. Mir. Massoy said that it was dono 6 \lir Josbph Ward: Would' the honourable gentleman, agrco to let tihe Lancfs Report go to tho Legislative Council, or tho 'Railways Report, or tho Mines Report? T Mr. Massey:' If irt wero necessary 1would not liavo -tho slightest hesitation. . ■ After some further discussion, Sir Joseph Ward said that he wanted to have an opportunity of reviewing a most important matter in* connection with one of these reports.

Reports and Estimates In 1911. The Prime Minister, dealing with the contention-raised by the Opposition that reports should be in hand before tho corresponding Estimates were discussed, pointed out that in ■ 1911 tho Cook Islands report was not.presented until October 27, but tlie Cook Islands Estimates were put through on September 29. Tho Post and Telegraph report was presented on October; 10, but' tho Estimates wero discussed on September 22. Tho Customs report was presented oil October 13, and tho Estimates were discussed on September 26. The report of tho Hospitals and Charitable Aid Department was'presented on October 23, and the Estimates wero discussed oil, Qctober 3. Tho report of tho Agricultural Departmont was presented on October 11, but tho Estimates wero discussed on October 4. The Prisons report was discussed on October 6, but tho Estimates wero discussed oil September 29. The Prime Minister said that ho had no doubt he could find quite a number of similar instances in which tho Estimates wero deplt with prior to tlie production of-reports. Tho statement that reports liad always been introduced prior to the Estimates being considered was incorrect. The present Government, when in Opposition, had always taken a reasonable view of the position. Finally, tho Prime Minister stated that ho would ask the Chairman of Committees to rule in tlio matter. If tho Chairman said that he would rule members out of order for quoting tho report mentioned that afternoon (Mental Hospitals), ho would accept the undertaking offered by the member, for Awarua, that_ thero would bo no discussion on going into Committee, and would ask tho Speaker to return to tho Chair, and present tho reports in the ordinary way. Tho Limits of Discussion. Tho Chairman said that memberi,' would bo quite in ordor in referring to the Report whoro it dealt with the ltom under discussion. ' Sir J. Ward: That is what I said. Tho discussion was continued at some length.. Mr. Ngata obtained'from tho Chairman a ruling that members would not bo entitled to discuss upon tho Estimates any matter of policy raised in a report. ' , , ' The Hon. J. A'. Millar contended that a report,was not in the possession of the House until it had been laid on the table. The Prime Minister said that more important papers than Teports, namely, Bias, had been circulated before being formally laid on the tablo Mr. Millar contended that only draft Bills oould be circulated in this informal way, but tie Prime Minister maintained that tho contrary was true. A Charge Denied. Tho Prime Minister expressed surprise at a statement mado by Mr. Hindmarsh that tho Minister and the Government had liad tho Mental Hospitals report in their possession, and had refused to give them to tho House. That was utterly and absolutely incorrect. Thoreport had not been mentioned for hours after tho discussion had started. Mr. Russell interjected that he had mentioned tho report as soon as tho discussion arose. , ,