THE PRINTING OFFICE.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1855, 15 September 1913, Page 4

THE PRINTING OFFICE.

e AST AN D PRESENT MINISTERS. ; A WARM DISCUSSION ' DISGRACEFUL CONDITIONS REMEDIED. , For about an hour, When the Governi pent Printing Office Estimates wore be- ' /ore tho Committee, •. recent developments ill-connection with tho office were 'discussed by Mr. G. W. Itesell (who I , was 'Minister-in-Chargo of tho-Printing Offico in tho days of the Mackenzie Ministry) and tho Hon. I l '. M. B. 1' Fisher, the Minister now in charge of ! tho office. i- Mr. Russell \said tliat when _ they : camo to the Estimates of tho Public Ser- '■ vioo Commissioner, ho would- show that tlio"-salaries of noarly all tiio officers in the Government Printing _ Offico had > been raised as compared ■ with_ officers In other branches of the Service. An- .' Dt-hor tiling to which ho wished to refer was the report of a function held at Godbar's rooms, Wellington, at which tho' Government Printer 'took' it upoii himself to make. "this odious comparison—that the present Minister was the best Minister that had ever controlled the Government Printing Offioe." He did not question tho right of the Minister to any credit duo to him, but ho,,said that when an official having control of a Department of 500 or 600 men, with tlhe persona in that Department, proceeded to give a presentation nnd testimonial to the Minister, it was (i. mighty poor' example to the. rest of the Service.' Ho had read a report of .. tho funotion in I'm: Dominion. It was a regrettable thing that & ■TxpcL'y of publie servants 'should hold a function in honour of their Minister;, and the head of the Department proceeded to eulogise him—a condition of things that ho hoped would ncveir bo repeated_ in this country. He asked tho Minister to . explain an item of £100 for mcdical ; attention. ■ 'Tho Hon. F. M. B. Fisher Baid that : '£52 of tho amount; was paid t0.,. Dr. < [Anderson, who granted .certificates to 'employees and inspected <'1 pi)lioatifor employment. The'balance''of'tho £100 was for medical attendance in caso of i ncoident, etc. Continuing,_ Mr. Fisher ! said tlhat a medical infection had been 'made of the wholo or tho Printing Oflioo. Mr. Russell had told him that when Jlinistor-in-Chargo of tho Print■jTijg Ofiioo 'he visited tno establishment. AVn.s that so? Mr. Russell: Yes. ' Disgrace to-Civilisation. Mr. Fishor said that if the honourable gentleman could outer tho Printing Office without becoming awaro of the state of affairs there it was an indiCiir tion of remissness. Tho Printing Office was a disgraco to civilisation, and the - honourable gentleman admitted himself that lie had been all over it. Mr. Russell: Why don't you blame the Government Printer? % Mr- Fishor said that the honourable peiitlcmnn could not well have entered the Printing Office without his nose tellint' him that, something was. wrong. Mi-. Fisher continued that the wages of ; girls employed in the Printing Offico were still inadequate, but they were bettor off now than they had ever been. He had found women of twenty-five or ■ twentv-six vears' service, and m control of a large number of girls, rcceivf- ing £96 a year,' while a typewriter of, . four years' service employed m tho Par-' ; liamentary Buildings received £150 a t year. | Women's Wages. Mr. Russell disputed this, and quoted

from last year's Estimates that two forewomen received £160, a year, and sub-forowomen £101. Ho had increased salaries on what they wero before. Mr. Fisher: I stopped a system of employing girls of fourteen years of age. ' Mr. Russell: Do you hold me responsible for that? Turn round to the man behind you and ask him why, he did itl Mr. Fisher said that he had arranged that a great deal of work which had hitherto been done in sweating shops in London should bo done in the Dominion. Ho had instructed that accountbooks should bo manufactured in the country. '. ; Mr. Russell: I started that for the Railway Department. ■ Mr. Fisher : It is only within the last fortnight that I have stopped orders going Home for tho account-books. Ho asked the honourable gentleman whether ho iiad gone through tho Printing Office with his noso unable to smell Anything, and his eyes unable to seo anything ? That would account for it. What Mr. Russell Did. Mr.. Cr. ; W. Russell said that tho Minister's whole speech had been an attack on the Government Printer, and if the statements made by the Minister wero correct tho Government Printer was unfit for tho position he occupied. Ho had given tho women spoken of an increase in wages of £5' a year. Tho Estimates before tho House gave the samo employees an increase of £9. : Mr. Fis'hor: Nino pounds on top of ycur £5. That was not a bad start. Mr-' Russoll went on to state that he had made such an inspection' of tho Printing Offico as lio could spare time for. from his other duties. The present Minister had no doubt been advised by friends and constituents of the state of affairs at tho Printing Offico. To blame a Minister who/ had been sneered at for being in office for only ten minutes for not doing all that was nccessary was absurd. He repeated that as Minister, ho had ordered that accountbooks for tho Railways _ Department should bo manufactured in the Dominion.' Ho gavotho Government Printer instructions that tho whole of this importation of stuff'from England was to stop, and that, if necessary, machinery was to be imported so that the whole of this work could be ,done in New. Zealand. When the Minister said that tho condition in which the Printing Office was left by him (Mr. Russell) was disgraceful, ho acted disingenuously and did not play tho game., Mr. Fisher said it was truo~ that Mr.. RtiGsell. had given instructions about tho local manufacture of account books. It was rather unusual to attack a public servant as tho hon. gentleman had done. "GOOD ADVICE." SIR JOSEPH WARD SUGGESTS A . HALT. Until four o'clock in tho morning an adjournment before daylight, or soon afterwards, seemed possible. At/ that hour Sir Joseph Ward reminded' the Prime Minister of the good advico he used to givo when their respective positions wero reversed and urged that progress should bo reported. If this wero dono, ho said, the Opposition would agree • to go into Committee on the Estimates on Tuesday without debate. Tho Prime Minister said that ho waß much obliged to tho hon. gentleman for his good advice and for reminding him of days gono by, but ho was sorry Mr. R. M'Kenzie: Be a gentleman. Mr. Massey said that, the reminder , was scarcely needed. He went on to remark that seven hours had been wasted in the afternoon and evening, and asked when tho session would be finished if they went on like this. Finally ho intimated that it was necessary to go on. War Declared. Twenty-fivo minutes • were' spent_ in protests by Opposition members against any further business being done. . Mr. G. J. Anderson on tho contrary expressed a liopo that the Primo Minister would insist on putting the whole of tho Estimates through. Sir Joseph Ward at onco roeo and moved to report progress. He said that tho Opposition were not to be bullied. What the member for Mataura had invited was a sitting that would last untibmidnight on Saturday. Tho motion was negatived by 29 votes to 18. A Point of Procedure. The Prime Minister expressed a hope that members would now' proceed to business. There wero rulings of tho Speakers and Chairmen of Committees, he said, that a class onco commenced could not bo postponed. Soon afterwards Mr. R. M'Callum contended that the Prime Minister had deliberately misled tho Houeo. Called to order, he substituted "inadvertently. ' Ho asked tho Chairman to furnish a ruling on the subject. The Prime Minister quoted the ruling, he'had mentioned. Mr. G. W. Russell Baid that as no authority was given for the ruling, he declined to accept it. - . After some discussion the Chairman ruled that progress could bo reported on partially considered resolutions, though they could not,be postponed. A Report Wanted. ' At 4.55 a.m. Mr. Russell moved to reduco tho item, "Inspector-General of Mental Defectives," by £1 as an indication that tho annual report of tho In-spector-General should have been presented before the Mental Hospitals Estimates wero brought down. • Tho Hon. R. 11. Rhodes said that he had just received the report, and it was ,in tho hands of tho printer. It was not his fault that tho report had been delayed. Last year t'ho member for Avon had allowed the Estimates of tho Mental Hospitals Department to pass in a few minutes and without saying a. word. At 5.5 a.m. Mr. Malcolm left tho chair, and was replacod by Mr. J. B. Hine, member for Stratford, who kept a very firm hold on tho proceedings. Mr. Wlllord Resumes his Seat. Mr. T. M.' Wilford was not allowed to go far when he began to relate that ho had just looked out of the window and found that the night was beautiful. "There is just one little cloud over Mount Victoria," he said, 'and not an- . other, cloud to be seen. All over the rost of tho sky the stars are shining." Mr. Hine: The hnn. gentleman must confine himself to tho eub'ect under discussion.

Mr. Wilford: I must get in my prologue. (Laughter.) Having finished my prologue, I now wish to offer my services as mediator. Mr. Hine: Tho hon. gentleman will resume his seat. Mr. Wilford: I movo that you do report progress, and ask leavo to sit again. Mr. Hino put the motion, but recalled it, with the remark that no progress had been made. Mr. Wilford: That is what I was calling vour attention to. Air. G. Witty mot with a similar fato soon afterwards, tho Chairman ordering him to sit down after warning him once or twice for irrelevance. Mr. Wilford said that ho'would move that tho Chairman leavo tho Chair. At tho moment ho' gave way to Kr. Isitt, and apparently, later on, forgot about his intended motion. The Morning After. At twenty minutes to seven "o'clock the Prime Minister and Mr. Riissell exchanged police "Good mornings I" across the floor of tho House. Mr. R,ussell prefaced his speech with an allusion to tho beams of morning that were breaking in. Ho stated that the Opposition were fighting for free speech, and for reports that had been refused. Ho knew of no previous, case in which tho House had been asked to vote £105,000 for mental hospitals before tho report of tho Inspector-Gonoral was in hand. Mr. Witty continued in a similar strain, and afterwards Mr. Isitt took up the running. At 7.10 a.m. the Hon. A. T. Ngata (Senior Opposition Whip) suggested that tho Estimates as far as lourist and Health Resorts should bo passed, and that the Estimates of tho Public Service Commissioner, a highly-con ton--tious class, should bo postponed. It would bo a pity,.Mr. Ngata remarked, to spend such a beautiful day inside. Tho Hon. R. H. Rhodes said that ho did not think there was anything very contentious in the Public Service Commissioner's Estimates. In. any case, a whole day had been promised for discussion on this subject. The proposal to, reduce the salary of the Inspector-General was negatived on the voices at 7.30 a.m. Another Amendment. Mr. G. Witty immediately moved that tho salary of the Resident Medical Superintendent at Auckland bo reduced by £20, as an indication that overcrowding at tho Auckland Mental Hospital should be remedied. _ ' . Mr. Hino continued in tiro Chair until 7.35 a.m., and was given a round of applause as ho left it, Mr. Malcolm having returned. Tho, Hon. It. H. Rhodes said that he had already admitted that there had been overcrowding at mental hospitals during the past three years. New buildings had been authorised at Auckland and elsewhere. At ten minutes to eight Mr. T. M. Wilford was offering his services as a mediator. Mr. L. M., Isitt loudly asserted that tho conduct of theso Estimates was a disgrace to tho Reform party and expressed a hope that the Opposition .would not givo way. Tho Opposition, he declared, should prolong tlio sitting until midnight and declino to pass lsingle class until the reports were produced. At 8 a.m. tho House adjourned for breakfast. No Compromise. Discussion dawdled on quietly for three-quarters of' an hour after tho House resumed at 9 a.m., and did not show any particular trend. At a quarter to ten f-Sir Joseph Ward suggested that somo arrangement should be come to about tho Estimates with a view to putting a period to the sitting. Mr. A. M. Myers proposed that the Houso should adjourn for live minutes in order that tho Prime. Minister and the Leader of the Opposition might confer and arrive at somo compromise as to tho amount of work to be done on tho Estimates before rising. A rousing chorus of "Noes" from tho Government benches negatived tho suggestion. Compromise Impossible. Speaking at 10 a.m. tho Prime Minister (who had just returned ■ to tin Chamber) said that he understood that tho Leader of the Opposition. whilo he was out had suggested something in tho nature of a compromise. It was just as well to say that ho would accept nothing in the way of a compromise. (Opposition: Hear, hear.) Tho Prime Minister said that to compromise'would be to admit that the Government had made somo unreasonable demand. Any delay in the presentation of reports, Mr. Massoy added, was due to tho fact that there had been a black in tho Printing Office for some weeks past. The report on Mental Hospitals was in typo. Ho suggested that his friends opposite should drop obstruction. He did not ask thein to do so, the responsibility was theirs. Finally he pointed out that under th 6 Standing Orders, if _ tho debate continued until midnight, it would continue automatically on Monday. Mr. Ngata cited a numbor of reports which had not yet been dolivered. Reports had never been so delayed before. He urged tho Primo Minister to postpono tho more contentious sections of tho class of Internal Affairs. Mr. G. W. Russell (Avon) <said thai tho Government would bo acting with great dignity' if it abstained from attempting to force' the Estimates through without the Departmental reports being produced. A Report Produced. Tho Hon. R. H. Rhodes: I don't want to force tlio Estimates through without producing the report, aJid the hon. member can havo it (holding out tho documeht). Tho Minister continued that he had hurried up a few rough copies of the report from tho Printing Office, on the strength of a statement f by the member for Avon that ho would • bo satisfied if tho report wero laid on the table in typo-written copy. Mr. Massey stated that a proof of the Cook Islands report was available for th'o inspection of members. Messrs. Atmore and Isitt coincided in stating that "No surrender" was the attitude they favoured. Mental Hospitals Report. The Prime Minister furnished the House with some particulars of the Mental Hospitals report. A large building at Tokomaru, he said, had now been completed. It was capable of accommodating fifty patients. ■ Quarters for the staff had also been provided. Two or three buildings capable of accommodating an additional fifty patients could now be gone on with. At the Auckland Mental Hospital itself accommodation was in courso of erection for 75 female and 100 malo patients. 1 Ventilation had . been considered, and tho free admission of sunlight into every room. Into theso new buildings would bo drafted tlio more turbulent patients. At Porirua tho additions on tho male sido had proved a f?rcat booiij and accommodation on tho female side must be proceeded with. A oonvalcscent cottage had been put to other uses. At Sunnyside a reception dock and hospital were being built, and would bo placed in charge of a trained nurse. He also detailed additions at Seacliff. Structural alterations were being mado to other mental hospitals. Members would see that everything possible was being dono, and, though there had been an unfortunate, delay, the present Government was not in any way responsible for it. The different buildings were being pushed on as rapidly as possible, and it was qmto evident that overcrowding would soon bo a thing of tho past. Bootless Overtures. Sir Joseph Ward now (at 11.8 a.m.) again proposed a sottlomont. Tho Primo Minister said that ho was

quito willing that tho Houso should adjourn, but it must bo on tho understanding that, on resuming, tho wliolo of the Internal Affairs Class would be put through. Ho mentionod that in J till tlio Cook Islands Estimates wero discussed on September 29, and the report was not brought down until October 27. The "Hansard" report of the discussion on that occasion occupied less than two columns. Sir Joseph Ward said that he had to keep an appointment, and would bo away himself after noon. Members on that sido of tho House, however, could easily keep the debate going until midnight. The Prime Minister: Quite easily. 1 admit that. Sir Joseph-Ward said thathehad reason to believe that tliero would bo a discussion upon tho Public Service Commissioner's report, and, therefore, if it was desired to force that class through how thero would bo an unnecessarily long discussion. If tho Cook Islands Class was also attempted, tho position would bo complicated, as some members would insist upon having them beforo them. It was not unreasonable to adjourn to 2.30, in order to road tho re' : port and put it through. What Might Have Been. The Primo Minister said he would havo been prepared to report progress tho evening before if tho classes of Cook Islands and Public Servico had beenput through. If thero had been no obstruction, tho House could have adjourned not later than 1 o'clock. Instead of that they had been wrangling all night, and he really thought that tho suggestion ho had mado was a very reasonable ono. Ho was quito willing to go on now, finish tho class, and bo done with it, or he was willing to adjourn to 2.30, on tlio understanding that they Bhould finish the class that day. He could not mako a fairer offer than that. Mr. G. W. Russell stated that the offer made by Mr. Massoy was not attractive enough. "Never Surrender." At noon Mr. R. M'Callum declared that the, word had been passed round that tho Opposition must' "never surrender.". (Laugbtgr.) And ho said the party would stand by their new leader. So the tale wont on. Mr. H. Poland assured tho few waking members that lie enjoyed all-night sittings abovo all, things. After him Mr. A. T. Ngata produced a huge bluo book, and began to quote from tlio first page or thereabouts, so deliberately and with such discursive comment that it appeared he meant to read tho whole book. By and by thero was a break of an hour and a half for lunch. Tho sleeping mombers wero awakened, and at tlio end of tho timo they returned to theChamber to sleep again.. For an hour and a half longer tho "debate" dragged on. until tho Minister spoke. Members had been seeking with poor show of sincerity to show that Dr. Beaftie was getting too-much salary, and that ho could easily spare £20 of it. Mr. Mac Donald brought the Minister to his feot by upbraiding, him ■ for saying nothing in defence of his officer. Tho Hon. 11. H. Rhodes said that he had not defended the officer because lio charge was made against him. Indeed, some members had said ho ought to receive a better salary. But still tho supporters of tho amendment that ho ought to havo his salary reduced continued to talk about all manner of tilings. The Chairman had to call nearly every speaker to order at least twice for irrelevance. Back From Golf. Shortly after 5 p.m. Mr. T. M. Wilford arrived in the Houso fresh and fit, with somo now ideas, and ho relieved the jaded members who had been doing their best to keep on talking fo the amendment. He spoke of tho qualifications of tho Superintendent of a Mental Hospital, and among them, according to Mr. mlford, was "a knowledge of suggestivo therapeutics." Had Dr. Beattio this knowlcdgoP Had ho read half a scoro of alloged authorities? Then ho detailed how once a visitor went into tho Auckland Mental Hospital and poisoned an inmato with prussic acid. He was discussing how the poison was or was not administered when he was called to order. Again, when tho Houso resumed at 7.30 p.m., Air. Wilford wont on with his suggested therapeutics. Religious maniacs, ho declared, had an idoa tliattho dovil was trying to got them into a corner. Ho urged that in the new wing of the hospital, Dr. Beattio ought to havo a round room, in which religious mania patients might bo cured of their hallucinations. Tho question was being put when the Prime Minister roso to point out that if tho amendment wero carried it would bo a serious reflection on Dr. Beattie. Mr. Massoy was ruled out of order, howover, becauso lie had already spoken four times. Messrs. T. M. Wilford and T. Y. Scddon held tho floor for somo timo. Mr. Wilford let the Committee into the secret of how he 1 had acquired his energy and his interest in tho subject under discussion, mental hospitals; ho had been golfing. He said he was not tho fop of tho Minister, as tho Ministor seemed to think. He did not think Dr. Boattio's salary ought to bo reduced. Ho had only forty minutes, four-turns of ten minutes each, to speak on tho question, but ho would uso all the forty minutes, and help tho Minister all he could. . At 8.30 p.m. tho amendment, which had been moved at 7.30 a.m., was lost on tho voices. To Report Progress. This amendment disposed of, Mr. G. Laurenson moved that progress bo reported, and the debato at once assumed a different complexion. Members wero then in order in protesting against the continuance of, tne debato, and they did so. . , , Mr. L. M. Isitt was particularly anxious that the debate should not go on. It was utterly futile to continue it, for tho Prime Minister was asking tho House to pass votes of £2,600,000 without supplying the House with any information about them. Ho was afraid lest his own. health, and that of the Prime Minister, both of whom were now showing signs of advancing years, Should be i-njoired by the heavy work of the late session. Ho hoped members would be reasonable,-cry that honours were oven, and agree to go home. Mt. G. W. Russell supported the motion to report progress. Mr. Malcolm called him to order as he went on to refer to tho Primo Minister's effort to force the Estimates through, and directed, him to confine liimsoTf to tlio motion to report progrcss. . Mr. Russell: Yes, I'm coming to reporting pregressMr. Malcolm was still standing, having something more yot to say, but Mr. Russell was also on his feot. Whereupon, . Mr. Fisher: Sit down; sit down. M.r. Russoll promptly sat down, apparently amazed at his own compliance. Mr. Russell Is Angry. Mr. Malcolm finished his directions, and „ . Sir. Russell roso in a fluster, and said: "If tho Minister for Finance persists in grinning at me like an orangoutang, I'll throw something across the floor of the House." Ho went on to threat-en the Government that tie Estimates would be obstructed until certain Teports were ready. Tho Hon. W. H. Herries had occasion to interject once or twice when; Mr. Russell wa-3 very near to being out of order, and . Sir. Russell retorted: The Minister for Railways .may be :i very clovcr man, but lie is'not tho Chairman of Committees. Mr. Herries: And jrou are not tho .Lcadea- of tlha Qapositlon. (Lauchtor.)

Mr. Russell again appealed to the Ministry and the House to give up the battle, to allow the members to go home to have the rest they needed. "Because wo are tired," ho gave as his clinching reason. Mr. T. Sl.' Wilford asked: Why not report progress? . . Mr. J. A. Hanan sought to raise tlio question of tho propriety of the action of the Government in submitting to tho House certain Estimates in regard to Departments placed under the Civil Servico Commissioner, which Estimates line]: not been prepared by tho Commissioners. Tliis ho urged was a reason for the withdrawal of the Estimates, and for tho .Committee to report progrcss - . . . , , ' After being twice previoxisly warned, •he w.io t-old that he had no right on tho motion to report progress to do more than make tlio point. . Ho was not entitled to argue tlio merits of tho subject of Commissioner oontrol generally, and finally ho was told to get off that tone of argument altogether. Polnts'of Order. When tho Houso resumed at 10 p.m., after tho supper adjournment, two members came prepared to put forward points of order. Mr. Hino submitted 0110 to tho effect that tho motion to report progress should lapso because it had boon interrupted by an adjournment mado obligatory by the Standing Orders. Tho object of tho raising of t)io question was of course that if the point of order had been upheld, the Committee would havo had to make some progress before another motion to report progress could be accepted. Mr. T. M. Wilford submitted another, still more subtle. iHo asked whother it was not "legally imperative" to report progress tor tho reason that under tlio Standing Orders and the Constitution Act tho Committee ought not to bo asked to pass votes for appropriation of money without having all the facts before it. ' Mr. Herries: Get a declaratory ]udgment. Mr. Isitt and Mr. Laurenson appealed to tho Primo Minister not to be so merciless, but to act in accord with his usual "spirit of sweet reasonableness." Mr. Laurenson, in especial; enlarged upon tho good that would como to them from going lionio and waking up fresh in tho morning. On tho other hand ho enlarged upon tho dangers to their health and their persons of "crawling home with tho cat." At twenty minutes to twelve Mr. R. "W. Smith returned to tho House, having, as ho said, taken a trip into tho country,-"find, being called upon to speak, he said he was "only sorry that Sunday was so closo." Tho Government had found, ho thought, that they had. a much more formidable Opposition than they supposed. They had <np chanco, of getting tho Estimates through. Mr. Wilford: They'll go oil when we say "Yes," 'but not beforo. THE PRIME MINISTER. GAGGED BY POINTS OF ORDER., Tho Hon. W. F. Massey rose at ten minutes beforo nudiiight. "Beforo wo reach Sunday morning," he said, "and we find it necessary to leavo this Chamber, 1 want to review tho events of tho last 30 or 32 hours, in connection with what has soemed to me tho silliest and most unreasonable stone- i wall—(cries of "Order") —well, obstruction " Mr. Wilford: Point of order. Is the honourable gontleman entitled to review the past 24 hours in speaking to a motion to report progress. Mr. Isitt .(addressing Mr. Massey who was still on .his feot waiting for an opportunity to proceed): Sit down. Sit down. Set us a good example. Sir. Massey sat down. Mr. Malcolm held that Mr. Massey had not been out of order. Mr. Massey: I proposo to review what has taken place during the last 30 hours on account of the enormous amount of time that has been wasted. And I think that is a very good reason •for not reporting, progress. Mr. Ngata interrupted, and suggests ed to Mr. Malcolm that tho member for Avon had been ruled out of order for proceeding to review tho events of tho last 36 hours, and that Mr. Massey was doing exactly the samo thing. Mr. Witty: Point of order. Is it in order for the Honourable tho Prime Minister to speak of silly waste of time? Mr. Malcolm ruled that Mr. Massey had been in order. Mr. Wilford: Then I move that you leavo the Chair in order that tho Speaker's ruling be taken. •Mr. Allen: Point of order: It i_B not in order to move that tho Chairman leavo tho Chair in Committee. Mr. Wilford: W r ell, I movo that you do report progress in order that tho Speaker's ruling bo taken. ' This question was put, and it was opposed by tlio Government. Every member of the House must havo used his voice, for there was a loud chorus of "Ayes" and "Noes." Mr. Malcolm declared that tho "Noes" had it, and the Opposition front benchers said, "Tho Ayes have it." Tlio Government members retorted with somo ""The Noes havo it." In tho end no division was callcd, and tho motion was, therefore, defeated. Tho Waste ot Time. Mr. Massey was allowed to go on uninterrupted for about a second. Ho said that the" reason he was going to givo why progress should not bo reported was that there .had been too much waste of time already. Mr. Wilford: Point of order: Will tho honourable gentleman resumo his seat? Mr. Malcolm (to Mr. Wilford): Will tho honourable gentleman resume his seat? And I will ask him not to take upon himself tho functions of Chairman. Mr. Wilford asked the Chairman to see that when ho roso to a point of order tho honourable member speaking should resume his seat. He went on to arguo that Mr. 1 Massey, in speaking to the motion to report progress, had raised a question which had nothing to do with the motion. In support of his motion ho quoted May (an authority on Parliamentary procedure) at somo length, and there wero,several^minutes less available for Mr. Massey in conscquenco. Mr. Wilford's contention was not upheld. Mr.. 'Massey: I am opposing tho motion to report progress because there has been too much waste of timo already. Last session when tho Estimates were" under discussion Mr. Wilford: Point of order. Mr. Massey: Guilty conscience! Mr. Witty asked whether it was in order for the Prime Minister to say "Guilty conscience.". Mr. Malcolm: It is in order. Mr. Wilford wont on with his point of order. Ho asked whether tho Primo Minister was in order in arguing that last- session things were different. Mr, Malcolm said there, was nothing in tho point of order. What the House Did Last Year. ' Mr. Massey: It is on a par with tbt> wasto of time that has been going oi; for tho last thirty hours. ' I ask honourable members to think back to the time we were discussing tho same Estimates last year Mr. Laurenson asked whether the Prime Minister was in order in giving an address on the question of adjournment when tho member for Hutt had been ruled out of order on the same point. Mr. Malcolm: That point has been ruled upon. Sir. Wilford: Speaking to the point of order Emphatic cries of "Chair, Chair," from the Government benches. Mr. Malcolm: I have ruled. Mr. Masscv; Lot mo say what honourable members did at tho correaiwad-

ing sitting last year. The Committee put through those classes —Public Buildings, Native Department, Justice Department, Mines and Internal Affairs— in eight and a half hours. Another point of order was raised, but Mr. Malcolm, in view of tho fact that it was one minute beforo midnight, intimated that ho would lcavo the Chair, to rosumo- it, in accordance with Standing Orders, at 2.30 p.m. on Monday. After Mr. Malcolm had vacated tho Chair, Opposition membors. indulged in a demonstration of noisy hand-clapping, and Mr. Russell shouted: "Where's your bullying now? Where's your bullying now?"