DEFENCE TRAINING.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1846, 4 September 1913, Page 4

DEFENCE TRAINING.

' PARTICULARS OF PROSECUTIONS. OPPOSITION COMMENTS. MINISTER'S REPLY TO CRITICS. Two. returns presented supply information regarding tlio number of persons liable for military training and tho number who liave refused to comply with tlio provisions of "the Defenco Act. Ono of tlio returns, asked for by Mr. G. Laurenson, M.l\, gave the following in- . formation:— (1) The number of young men in tho Dominion between the ageji of 18 and 25, inclusive, on May 81', 1913, was 83,139. (2) The number of tflioso who woro ' enrolled in the Defence X'orces since tho • Dcfoneo Act was passed in 1903 up'to [ May 31, 1913, was 29,601. This total ! did not include tho number of' youths \ who registered for sorvico in the Senior ' Cadets, and have between jtlio dato of ' tlio initiation of compulsory military ' training mid May 31, 1913, been posted " to the Senior Cadets and to Defenco Rifle Clubs. ' (3) Tho number of thoso who have 5 been rejected as physically unfit or who 3 have been, excused from serving on other , grounds since tlio Defciico Act was passed ill 1909, up to May 31, 1913, was : 6050. I (1) The number who havo been summoned throughout the wholo Dominion • for breaches of tho Defenco Act within 1 tlio samo time was 4229. This includes Senior Cadets." J ''Proclamations published under tlio Act required all males who on May 31 ? iliad/attained tlio ago of 14 and had not , attained tho age of 23, to bo registered: consequently tho total of 83,139 in (1) contains young men of 23, 24, and 25 5 years of age, not obliged to register and , ■ not included in (2), unless serving volI untarily (a very small proportion). The word "theso" ill (2) and (3) in its relal' tion to ono is understood to excludo Senior Cadets. 3 A return supplied at tlio request of 1 Mr. G. Witty, M.l\, was as follows: — j- . (1) The number of youths who .havo been convicted once for breaches of the . Defenco Act is 3108. , (2) Tho number of youths convicted s twice is 241. (3) Tlio number of youths convicted g three 'times and over is 43. t (4) The number of youths eligible to _ servo under tho Defence Act is 71,568. t (s)'Tlio number actually serving un- . der tho Defohco Act is 52,356. These particulars cover tlio period s from the initiation of tho system of. s compulsory military training up to June 30,'1913, and include all liable for scr--0 vico in tho Territorial forco and senior t cadets. y "Twelve Per Cent." Mr.' G. LAQIiKNoOiV (Lyttelton) ® said tho figures showed that a very large number ot young men had not enrolled, ° and this was most suggestive. It was nlso suggestivo t'liat 4229 had been ' prosecuted for not complying with tlio Defenco Act. This meant, in round figures, .that twolve per cent, of young men woro resisting tho operation of tho s Act. Ho would not enlarge upon tlio return at that stage, but urged that it 1 was incumbent upon members to tako the returns into veiy careful considcration. Tlioy would thus bo ablo to seo | 9 how far tho people of tho country gave tho scheme practically unanimous sup--0 port, for, unkiss tlio scheme met with ... practically universal approval, it was (I foredoomed to failure, lie believed that ]; it would bo better to revert to the old y. system, which ho believed to bo better x) than tho present one. Thcro was 110 t- use continuing the scheme if there wero i- a largo of objectors. Ie . Mr. G. AY. RUSSELL (Avon) said ;r that 29,000 lads had registered, in addi;o tion to tho seJiior cadets, while 6500 had been declared medically unfit. This it left 48,000 between tho ages of 18 and If 25 who wero unaccounted for. >r Tho Hon. J. Allen: That is not so! 1?d < A Proper Trial. "| Mr. Russell added that ho did not l( j agreo with Mr. Laurenson in suggost'J ing that tho se'hemc should be abandoiied. Ho said that as it had been introduced at heavy expense it would v ~ iiavo to havo a proper trial. To a largo 10 extent tlio scheme had already broken 10 down, becauso of tho difficulties in getting tho men to register and to coll" operate. Thoy would have to improvo " tho system. of Mr. K. I'. Leo (Oijmaru): More prosecutions? , it Mr. Ruscll: No, not more prosccuor tions, but moro attractions. Tho response sibilitv was upon tho Minister to make the scheme effective, by making it ab|i; solutely universal, or else to admit failure and bring forward other schemed, it It was absolutely unfair that- one swat tion of young men sliould comply K'itli ut the Act while another section was able nt to shirk and evade compliance. He wanted to seo absolute fair play to all eo sections and' protested against the dif•c- I'erentiation that was possible. Mr. J. VKiOl? MiOWX (Xapier) si;eli.cl | gested Hint tlio return slinnl.l have in- ' dicnted how many times e.leli boy had • been prosecuted. It was not fair to say

that becauso a few boys had boon prosecuted tin.' seliemo liail broken down, lie believed that if tlio position wore analysed it would bo found that the ■1000 prosecutions would not represent '1000 boys—tho number would be, much less. Mr. G. J. ANDERSON (Mataura) mentioned some details where improvement in tho sehemo could be ellccted. Ho cited cases whore Territorials were required to travel unreasonable distances. More Questions. Mr. G. AVITTY (Riccarton) said that ho had a return which showed that 31U8 had been conyicted once, 241 convicted twico, and -13 convictcd threo times. Tho total number oligiblo for servico was 71,558. . Tho numbers already enrolled . wero 52,3(30, leaving 19,20 a cligiblo, but not enrolled.' Out of these' (iOOO were medically unfit, so that 13,103 was the real number of men who wero eligible but had not enrolled. Now they wanted to know who theso 13,000 men wero. 'i'iiey should not bo allowed to shirk while others wero forced to obey tho Act. All should bo compelled to enrol, or elso thero should be no prosecutions. Thfe Minister in Reply. The Hon. JAS. ALLEN, in replying, regretted that tho return had been debated, becauso members had not been able to becomo conversant with its terms. Tho member for Avon assumed for instance, that tho 83,000 men mentioned were all liable for servico. A noto attached specially mentioned that men aged 23 and 2-1 and 25 wero not liable at present. Ho assumed that would remove something liko 25,000 men. The next portion of the return was misleading also if tho noto to tho figures wero not borne in mind. Tho 2y,000, did not include tho Senior Cadets liable for registration. Opposition voices: How many Senior Cadets aro there? . Mr. Allen: 1 will tell you. Tho total number of youths between 14 and 18 registered for service on Juno_ 30, 1913, as Senior Cadets was 41,935. They wero not included in those figures of 29,000, so tliitt hon. members who havo been criticising have not understood tho position. / Surely it would havo been reasonable to wait and carefully consider tho figures beforo making misleading statements. Ho did not say deliboriitely misleading statements, but. still thoy were misleading, becauso members had not had tim& to study the return. Mr. Laurenson :• What is tho number between 14 and 23? Mr. Allen: I can't say. 1 assume it is somcwhero about 60,000 —for tlioso between 18 and 23. Now, tho correct figures of those registered on Juno 30, 1913, were: Territorials 29,033; Senior Cadets 41,935: total 71,308. Mr. Witty: My return gives that total as eligible—yours as registered, which is correct? Mr. Allen ropeated the figures as being those registered, and asked was that a fair-or unfair proportion of those between 14 and 23 to be registered? Mr. Payne: But how many aro eligible? > Mr. Allen: There are 71,000 registered, and of them 52,356 aro actually serving in tho ranks, leaving a deficiency of 19,212. These wore accounted for as follows:—Volunteers who registered for servico on tho initiation of tho scheme, and . since allowed to leave, 1300; residing in exempted areas, 1050; exempted on account of religious beliefs or undoubted - hardships, undesirable, deaths, or left th/i Dominion since registration, 3500; physically unfit after joining, 120; allowance for physical unfitness, 5 per cent., ,'IS7S; number registered as senior cadets, but still at primary schools, 1588; registered twice, 1000; total number .registered, but not yet posted in senior cadets, 5980; grand total of 18,116. This left a deficiency of 1086 unacountcd for on Juno 30 last. That was the position with regard to registration, and with regard to servico. A Small Difference. He was not prepared to say at tho moment what tho difference was between tho number that ought to be registered and the number that were registered, but it could not bo a very great difference. In regard to' summonses, ho was coming to tho conclusion that tlio less information he gavo to tho House the better, because members would not use it fairly when they got it. Mr. Russell: That is why you kept back the Public Trust report. Mr. Allen said that the bulk of the 3108 lads who had been summoned had been guilty only of failing to attend one drill. Tlio great'bulk of them upon being summoned immediately complied with' tlio law. Tho remainder of tho return .showed how many wero really definitely opposed to tho Act. Tho number of persons summoned twico was 241. The number of tlioso convicted threo times or over was 43.

Mr. Isitt: Scores have nover been summoned.

Police Aid Invoked. Mr. Alien said that ho was perfectly well aware of that. Ho had saidl in tho Houso more than onco that tlio reason that somo persons liable to training had not been summoned was that tho Department could not get at'them. .He had already been in communication with tho Minister for Justice to seo whether it would not be possible to employ the police in assisting the Defence Department to locate those who refused to comply with tho Defenco Act. Tlio defaulters now moved from 0110 district to another. Mr. Allen said that lion, members who wero really interested in tho defenco movement and legislation should help tho Minister to carry it out-, instead of indulging in adverso criticisnt. Thoy should endeavour rather to-make suggestions for tho improvement of tho legislation. Tho Government had never made defenco a party question. Already it had set -up a Defenco Committeo of both Houses. Ho was sorry it had not sat yet. Tho question of detention was going beforo the committee, | and it might also deal with tlio quostions raised that afternoon. Ho was anxious to establish defence training upon a truly national basis. Sir Joseph Ward: Did you fix up the committeo on non-party lines? Mr. Allen: I think so. Sir Joseph Ward: I suppose that is ' why, as a former Minister for Defence, I was left off. Mr. Allen: The lion, gentleman was not in tlio Dominion when tho committeo was set up, and I did not know when ho was coming back. Ho added that ho would havo much pleasure in moving to add Sir Joseph Ward to tho committee. In his concluding remarks, Mr. Allen mentioned a queer anomaly previously mentioned in tho House —that moro persons wero registered for training than tlio mimbor supposed to b.o eligible. Mr. Russell: lou havo shown that today. Mr. Allen: Why do you- complain then? It wa9 agreed, on tho motion of Mr. Allen, that Sir Joseph Ward should bo added to the Joint Committeo 011 Defence. THE MINES COMMITTEE. Tho Hon. AV. ERASER (Minister for Mines) moved that Sir W. C. Buchapan and Mr. P. C. Webb bo.added to tho Mines Committoo. Tlio motion wus agreed to. Replying to 1 a question from Sir. T. 51. Wiiford in. tho House yesterday, as to whether it was the intention of tho Government to reduce -the majority required 011 11 licensing poll this year or next year, tho Prime Minister replied: "Tho full programme of the session's work will be laid before the House within a week or two, and the honourable member will then have an opportunity of soeiiig whether tho measure ho is asking for is included.''