DR. HUNTER EXAMINED.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1846, 4 September 1913, Page 5

DR. HUNTER EXAMINED.

COMMITTEE'S PROCEEDINGS. ROYAL COMMISSION. URGED. A copy of the official report of Dr. Hunter 3 evidence before the Education Committee and the subsequent cross-ex-amination was supplied by Mr. G. M. Thomson. The report of the cross-ex-amination alone occupies 23 pages of typewritten matter. Extracts from this portion of the report aro given below :■ Examined by Mr. Hanan, Dr. Hunter said that ho considered it necessary . that a Iloyal Commission should be appointed to investigate the conditions that he alleged existed at tho Dunedin Medical School. Ho considered that tlie diplomas issued by tho Otago Council were of littlo valuo as to competency; the students down thero got practically no training at all. In part, Dr. Hunter's replies t-o Mr.\ Hanan's questions covered ground already traversod in his previous statement to tho committeo. Dr. Hunter stated that eight years ago lie wroto to tho Dunedin Charitablo Aid Board, and they did what ho expected thoy would do with regard to the out-patient department, of which ho had charge— thoy did not appoint him again, and took no notice of his suggestions. The Charitable Aid Board at that time was * under Mr. Peter Millar, who had bean » chairman for 18 or 19 years. "It was a straight-out despotism," Dr. Hunter stated. "Mr. Millar did what he liked and thero was no second opinion. Naturally my attack on what was going on there weakened the position of Mr. Millar, and Mr. Millar'left in two years." Mr. Hanan: You havo made public ! most of tho criticism you havo given us to-day?' Dr. Hunter: Practically all of it. Sinco then havo taken placo to tho board?—" Elections take place every year." Sinco your criticisms appeared in tho papors, olections havo taken placo for membership on tho board?—" Yes." A Certain Amount of Effort. And lias no effort been mado to deal with tho -points you havo raised in your criticism ?— I "Thero has been a certain amount of effort no doubt; that is to say. moro has been done in some re-

spects since I started writing than has ever been done before." ' In examination by Mr. Sidey, Dr. Hunter said that he thought tliero should bo a medical school in New Zealand, but that if a commission reported otherwise ho would fall in with its idea. Mr. Sidoy: Tho general impression that would be gathered from your cvidenco is that tho present Medical School is turning out a largo number of incompetent men? —"Yes." Relating to 1003. That is what you wish us to understand? —"No. My evidence with regard to these matters relates to IDO3. 1 say things have improved since. To . get mo into saying that it is turning ■ out incompetent men is to put mo' into a false position." What is the use of giving us ovidenco about conditions as they were ten years . ago?—" What is the good of asking mo what' sort-of man is turned out irom ■ tho Dunedin University when I am not < iii closo contact with these people?" You seo what tho effect of your evi- , denco to-day. is—wholesale condemns- ( tion of tho whole institution P—' 'With regard to that wholesale condemnation nobody has over been able, during tho course of eight years, to deny one point : that I have raised." What can you tell us about the in- • stitution to-day; that is we want 1 to know? —"Surely in order to find out : tho position of anything, tho proper thing to do is to start off giving its history." After some further questions had been answered, Mr. Sidey asked: Do' you say that the training to-day is bad?—"lt is still bad in nlany respects." ; " "Speaking From Hearsay." Regarding the cstimatiou in which medical students trained at Otago University are held at Home, Mr. Sidey asked tho witness whether he was not speaking from hearsay. Dr. Hunter: That is tho only way in which 1 can get such a statement. If I ask a man who was trained at Dunedin, and.has' been at Home for a couple ! of years, what he thinks of the whole thing, I find they all say at once that , they regret very much they did not' go Home to begin with. No one suggests for a moment that it is advisable lor a man to- stay in Dunedin to study medicine, surely ! ' Mr. Sidey: 1 have hoard it advised? —"Well, in my opinion it is very ba'd advice." • • Questions by the Minister. The Hon. James Allen asked the witness whether his intention in producing a box of pills beforo the committee was to discredit Dr. Batchelor, who at ono timo was lecturer in tho University.Dr. Hunter: My intention was to draw attention pointedly to the condition of affairs, at tho present time in Dunedin, which' permits that sort of thing being done. Mr. 'Allen: Is it a discreditable thing to have your name on a box of pills? —"Certainly, for a medical mail." I understand you suggest it is still more discreditable becauso it is tho name of a professor in tlhe University ? —"I think it is very much more discreditable. The more highly placed a, man is, tho greater is his responsibility." . ■ To further questions, witness said that he did not know whether Dr. Batchelor had given permission that his namo should bo used in this way. The things had been selling in Dunedin for twenty years. He did not know of any other prominent medical mail who allowed his namo to he placed on a box of pills or other medicine. Dr. Hunter said that lie was trained for one year at Otago University in anatomy and physiology. . Mr. Allen: Was that good?—" No." Which was bad P—"Physiology was bad." . . What year are you talking of?— , -"1893." , That is twenty years ego?—" Yes." • , A Bright Spot. Further questioned, Dr. Hunter said that physiology at tiio present time was one of the !>pots in the Uni- ; versity teaching. Mr. Allen: Then the teaching of physiology has materially changed in twenty years?—" Yes, but lam speaking about the hospital and clinical teaching." Tliero had been a vast improvement all round since 1903, except in the things he had drawn attention to. • Dr. Hunter said that he had never applied for a post at tho univorsity. Ho had applied for positions on tho honorary staff of tho hospital. Mr. Alien: Were you appointed?— ■ "No. I was appointed the first time." He was not disappointed because ho was not appointed and had no grievance ■ against anybody elso in the matter. He had a grievanco against the teaching as given by Dr. Williams in the diseases of children. Very likely Dr. Williamsjiad had experience of the diseases of children m Now Zealand, but he did not count that. Dd.. Williams would get opportunities for experience in the diseases of' children at the lvaritane Home. "When ono speaks of a man having had no. experience," said the witness, "it means that lie has held no positions under a good mail." , Clinical Toaching. Regarding his criticism of 'clinical teaching at Dunediu, Dr. Hunter said ■ that his evidence was necessarily based . upon hearsay. Ho knew that there was ■ now a tutor in medicine and a tutor i'i surgery, and that there were now three physicians and lecturers in clini- , cal medicino at the Otago Medical , School. There wero three surgeons and . lecturers in clinical surgery, threo as- - siptaht-surgcons, a gynaecologist, and two assistant-gynaecologistsj three as- : sistant-physicians, an ophthalmic surgeon, and two assistants, a radiologist, , two anaesthetists, and a dental surgeon. Mr. Allen: Is not the teaching of ' most of these men clinical teaching? ''No." Witness contended : that any , man was weak as a teachor who had not had some hospital experience. He declined to make it a personal matter against a particular man. Mr. Allen: You mado it a personal - matter against Dr. Williams, Dr. Batchelor, and Dr. Cameron. Havo you any others that you want to put on , tho list?—"l liavo only made it a personal matter with tliom in so far as they have fallen into this position." The Mischievous Sham. * In speaking about tho "mischievous sham," Dr. Hunter stated later, ho was roforring to tho timo of his. experience, 1903. Ho had only referred to 1893 in answering questions. He know that the preliminary medical examination of the University of Now Zealand was rccogniscd by tho General Medical Council of Great Britain and Ireland, 'l'ho preliminary medical examination had nothing to do with the clinical training. Ho was discussing tho hospital, not tho prc-hospital, treatment. Ho Knew that the University of Cambridgo recognised two years of tho Otago medical course. This was the prc-hospital part- of tho courso against which lie had mado no charges. Mr. Allen: Yes, you did. Dr. Hunter: Not a word. Mr. Allen: You said tho whole thing was a mischievous sham. —"Professor. M'Gregor was in favour of them doing anatomy and physiology. That, as _ a full medical course, would bo a mischievous sham, but if you had anatomy ; and physiology in addition it would not be a mischiorous sham." Don't sneeze—it's horrid. Don't cough —it's dangerous. Yon need neither sncozo nor cough if you spend oighteenpcnco on a bottle of "NAZOIj." It is supreme among remedies for unpleasant complaints of this class, because it invariably cures. Sixtv doses in a bottle.—Adrt. /,