THE PUBLIC SERVICE.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1845, 3 September 1913, Page 4

THE PUBLIC SERVICE.

COMMISSIONER'S REPORT. A LENCTHY DISCUSSION. The Hon. W. F. aiASSEY presented the-report of tho Public Service Commissioner. air. J. A. Hanan (Inveroargill) asked the Primo aiinistc-r whether ho proposed to set apart an afternoon on wlhich the report could bo discussed. Tho Hon. W. F: MASSEY said he would make tliia a first order of tho day on some day ill the near future, probably within a month/ Sir Joseph Ward (Awarua) asked the Prime Minister whether ho could say', whether all tho decisions embodied in tlie report wero airrived at unanimously' -by tho Board of Commissioners, and if not whothor any dissenting member of tho board) could put his dissent on -record. ■Tlio'Hon. W. F. aiassey said 1 he had looked through the report, and so far as lie could i see it had nothing to do with classification. Tho report camo to him rot aSj from the board, hut from the Public Service Commissioner, air. Robertson-, 'who was responsible not only for himself but for his colleagues. Sir Joseph Ward asked whether there was any ivay in which the Houso could find out whether tho report was simply a majority report, or whether it was 'possiblo that.tho report could bo framed by ono man so that it embodied only ono man's opinions. Tho value of tho report would be increased if it was known that it was the unanimous opinion of the Commissioners or the opinion of tho majority, or that tlie report had been whittled down to avoid contentious matter. He thought Parliament ought to know all about what took place in connection with the framing of tlio important report. The Hon. W. F.- aiassev said there was nothing to. show whether the opinions expressed were those of Mr. Robertson or the opinions of a majority, but ho had the best reasons for saying that there was no difference of opinion among Commissioners. A Member's Fears, air. H. G. ELL (ChristcVrarch South) brought under, the notico of the Prime Jlinister n case of hardship inflicted upon an unfortunate man by the Commissioners. He had' applied for reemployment in tho servico after recovering from an injury, and because he had not a fourtdi standard certificate they refused to employ him, although in the Railway Department a man could bo employed if ho had a third standard certificate. air. aiassey: If tlio honourable gentleman will givo me the man's name privately 1 shall bring the caso under the notico of the commissioners.

air. Hanan: You can't. air. Ell: I am sorry I am in such a position that I can't communicate with the Trimo aiinister.; He went on to say that if ho got an assuraneo that he would not bo liablo to a fino of £50, he would be very glad to submit tlu's man's claim for re-employment. 110 complained that he wanted-to seo justice dono and ho could not, in order to secure this, approach the commissioners. , air. aiassoy repeated that ho would bring tlie case before the commissioners. There W9re' somo exclamations of surprise at this statement, and air. Horries said in reply to an interjection that Ministers were in oxactly the samo position as' members —they could net interfere with the commissioners. air. Ell: A pretty position members of Parliament have put themselves into in this country! air. Wilson: Hard luck! Isn t it?

air. Ell said that (lie man' in question had been so the Public Scrvice that- ho bad completely lost, tho use of ono hand. Yet ho had been dismissed bccauso h<) Could not produce

a Fourth Standard certificate. Tho mail was in tho I'ublic Works Department, but neither the Minister for Public Works nor himself (Mr. Jill) could movo ill tlio matter. Mr. J. Bollard: The man can appeal! Mr. Ell said that the man could not appeal because lio was no longer in tlio Service. Ho wanted to bo re-employed after recovering, but was informed that ho could not bo taken in because ho did not possess a Fourth Standard certificate. The Act had gone too far in withdrawing from casuals tho ripthfc of appeal against dismissal. Mr. G. J. ANDERSON (Mataura.) said that Parliament had last session placed tlie Public Service under a commissioner and members, as a result, had been sensibly relieved. If, now, members dragged all tho cases that we.ro brought under their notice on 'to tho floor of tho House it would produce a lamentablo state of affairs and would tend to defeat the legislation of last year. An Inquiring Member. Mr. J. COLVIN (Duller) asked what Minister tho commissioners came under. AVhere a constituent complained to his district member there should be somo Minister to send a complaint on to. Had not people a right to ventilate theii grievances in this way ? _ He did not want to go to the commissioners, but ho considered that ho should have a right to go to tho Prime Minister. A Confession. Mr. A. E. GLOVER (Auckland Central) said that on one afternoon he had brought threo cases under tho notice of tlio 'Commissioner. Members (surprised): Tho Commissioners ? Mr. Glover: Yes, I did. He added that ho had thus become liable to fines of £150. Ho would like to seo the Commissioners enforce these fines. If they did it would just about upset tho Commissioners. In futuro ho intended to see tho Commissioners or a Minister, as the occasion might demand. Mr. G. WITTY (Riccarton) said that tho Prime Minister had promised to assist tho man mentioned by Mr. Ell until it was pointed out to him that "like the rest of us," ho was liable to a fino 0f.£50 for doing so. Direct Applications. Mr. G. V. I'EARCE (Patea) said that applicants themselves could now send forward their applications to tho Commissioner without any political infiuenco whatever. The Commissioners would not turn applications down because they camo from tho Opposition side. Tho Commissioners were independent. Members on tho other side had raised a cry that had absolutely nothing in it

air. G. LAURENSON (Lyttelton) contended that the appointment of the Public Servico Commissioners had mado impossible government of the people by tho people for tho people. '■ Against Political Influence. SIR WALTER BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) said that in the pre-Commissioner days ho had always abstained from endeavouring to infiuenco a Jlinister wliero his knowledge of the character of an applicant lor work did not justify his doing so. In an avorago caso a member had not tho knowledgo that would enable him to honestly recommend all applicant for employment. Hon. members should bo glad that tho pressure imposed upon them in matters of this kind in the past" had been relieved. Who could say, in tho present caso, whether tho demand for a Fourth Standard certificate was unreasonable? Jlr. Ell: A labourer. . Sir Walter Buchanan said that ho disagreed with much that had been said on the ot/ier sick. • He hoped that political, influence would continue to bo kept | away from tho I'ublic Scrvice. , Condition of the Service. SIR JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) asked what about the Railway Department j if the arguments used by tlio lion, gentleman wero worth anything? .Why j wero the Wellington members silent? Tho Public Service was with I discontent at tho present time. Surely .it could not bo right that members of I Parliament should bo denied tho right of approaching the Commissioners oil behalt 'of a constituent, l'eoplo who returned members to Parliament did not wish .to put them in a position inferior to that of the ordinary individual in tho- country. 'Ho invited'the mcmbor for Wairarapa to reconcile his attitude with, the fact that the biggest branch of -tho,Public Servico in this country was not undor Commissioner control. Sir Waltor Buchanan: Can't do everything in a day. Sir Joseph Ward asked whether the lion, gentleman wished to put tlio railways under commissioner control on some later day. Sir Walt-or Buchanan: I would do it. Sir Joseph Ward said that commissioner control of the railways had been tried in the past and had failed to givo satisfaction. Ho contended that ono of two things would happen. Either tho whole of the railways would havo to pass under commissioner control or tho Departments now' under commissioner control would havo to bo brought out from under it. Mr. A. S. aiALCOLai (Clutlia): I would bo much obliged if the Primo Ministor would convey to tho Commissioner tho suggestion I am about to make., It is that application forms for admission to the Public Scrvice should bo loft at all tho schools throughout the Dominion.

air. R. W. SMITH (Wa'marino) asserted that the A-it had only boen passed to satisfy tho Hon. A. L. Hcrdman. Some Further Protests. Jlr. J. ROBERTSON (Otaki) expressed tho opinion that the commissioner system would not last long, and' declared that it was opposed to the modern democratic trend of control by tho people. Ho objected to control by a few autocrats over whom neither tho public nor the Parliament elected by tho public had any power whatever. He entered an emphatic protest against tho. decision of tlio Commissioners that no girls should no allowed to sit for the Public Servico examination this year. air. R. M'CALLXJai (Wairau) said t)hat political influence had never been moro rampant than at tho present time. air. W. D. S. MACDONALD (Bay of Plenty) said that in his experience thero had been very little exercise of political infiuenco. In his opinion the new system would heap up huge expenditure, and under it individuals did. not appear to havo' any redress, but seemingly had to accept without question the decision of commissioners who were irresponsible so far as the Hoii'se was concerned. THE PRIME MINISTER. Tho PRIME aiINISTER said that ho was not surprised at- tho lengthy discussion that ' had taken place, because mention of the Public Servico Commission was like a red rag to a bull to members on the other side. He as- , sured them that they would never have a chance to remove this Act from the Statute Book. Thero-would bo no opportunity of going back to the political infiuenco and political graft that obtained up to Julv of last year. air. Ell: Political graft is an ugly term. , air. aiassey said that suggestions had been mado about extendina the operations of tho Board to tho Railway Department, tho police, and school teachers. School teachers stood entirely apart from political influence. They were controlled hv tho Education Boards, which were elected bv school committees, which, in turn, wero elected by householders. If it was right that school teachers should bo under independent control, it was right that, other branches of. tho Public Service should be under independent control. Any, candidate^

who camo before tho electors and advocated bringing the school teachers under political control would never seo the inside of Parliament Buildings. As to tlio polico they wero a semi-military force, and thero was no country in the world in'which they wero under any other control than that of tlio Sovereign Mr tho time being. They wero necessarily under the control of tho Crown. In the Commonwealth and several of the Australian States tho public scrrico was under the control of a Board of Commissioners, but tho railways wero in no caso under tho samo control. Tho New Zealand railways wero a classified Department managed by an expert. It would bo exceedingly awkward if they wero not managed by the general manager. A lot of nonsense had teen talked about tho £50 fine and all tho rest of it, but had anyone been lined? Ho did not know that anyone had attempted to exercise political influence. In a number of cases applications had como to Ministers or members of Parliament and they had been sent on to the commissioner without any recommendation. That was not political influence. The object in setting up the commission was to secure that appointments to the Public Service should be made, not by political influence, but solely by merit and fitness oil tho part of applicants. As to tho caso mentioned by Mr. Ell, he had had tho pleasure during the past six months of recommending men, who wero unfitted' for entering iho Public Servico, for employment in other directions. In some, cases, ho was glad to say, lie had been successful. This was not tho political influence that had been referred to that afternoon. Ho considered that tho discussion might havo better 'been held over until an opportunity arose in 'accordance with his promise. Mr. Witty had suggested that lio might fail to keep his promise, but had honourable members opposite ever known 'him to break a promise ? Tho remarks made by Mr. Witty, were un-called-for. There would be two more private members' days, and on- the Wednesday following ho would givo members an opportunity of discussing cither tho report of tho. Public Service Commissioner or tho report of the Forestry Commission. It had been saicl that the system of .commissioner control was undemocratic, but ha-d tfne Labour Government in tho Commonwealth at any time attempt-cd to remove tho Australian Public Servico Commission from office? Very Little Friction, It was wonderful, tho Primo Minister continued, that there had been so little friction in connection with the inauguration of tho new system. Ho remembered that wlhen the classification of the Post Office took place twenty, per cent, of tho officors appealed. Mr. Witty: There will bo that and moro now. air. aiassey said that matters would soon sottlo down. Members opposite had expected soinothing in the way of Public Servico revolution on account of tho classification, and tlioy had been greatly- disappointed. A statement had been made that the Public Service Commission would not be a bio to bring about any economies, but the report of the Commissioner showed that ho expected to ctfect economics to tho amount of £47,000 p6r annum. After further quoting from the -report, air. Massey exprosscd tho opinion that it was one of the most satisfactory and valuable documents over presented to Parliament. ARBITRATION ACT AMENDMENT. Tho PRBIE aiINISTER moved that tho amendments mado by tho Legislative Council in tho Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act Amendment Bill ho disagreed with. This was agreed to. Messrs. O, E. Statham, J. H. Bradney, T. H. Davoy, and tho Primo Minister wero appointed as a Committee to prepare reasons to Vic assigned to the Legislative Council for disagreeing with their amendment.