BIBLE IN SCHOOLS.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1844, 2 September 1913, Page 5

BIBLE IN SCHOOLS.

' ' THE CHURCHES' VIEWS. PLEA FOR THE REFERENDUM. NO BILL MS YEAR. • PRIME MINISTER APPROAOHED. A deputation representing the Bible-in-i-Jchools' League waited upon the Primo Minister yesterday, and submitted to him the case for the league's proposal that a referendum ought to be taken on tho. question of whether or not the Biblo should ba read in State schools. The Request. Canon Garland, organiser for the Bible-in-State-Sqhools' League, said that he wished to speak for tho executive body of that organisation, and to present a formal request, "That you shall pi'omiso to introduce during the present session of Parliament legislation to provide for a referendum being taken on the question which this league is pre'Senting, and ' that such referendum should be taken at tlio next general election." In regard to the form of the question the league recognised very clearly that Parliament'was.the proper b'ody to decida what that should be, but tho leaguo claimed that however tho question was to bo formulated it should embody tho principle which was contained in the original request of the league. The General Synod of the Church of England, with only two dissentients, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church, without any dissentients, the General Conference of the Methodist Church, by 115 votes to 28, and the Salvation Army absolutely -unaniiriously supported this request. In addition to this ovidence that theso highest courts of the churches had formally made this request, he submitted evidence that the lower courts of these churches were in accord with the decision 'of their higher courts. He handed to the Prime Minister the resolutions of tire highest courts of the churches, and also 373 resolutions passed by various organisations ..representing the lower Courts of the churches. He was pleased to be able to state also that tlio number of persons certified as having signed the Tequest 011 the cards circulated for signature to date was 111,926; and, of course, he said, this number was not final, but would bo added to from day to day. The League proposed that any member of Parliament should have tho right to inspect, and check, and verify the signatures of people in his electorate, and.in addition ho was propared to say that an opportunity would bo afforded the Primo 'Minister, on behalf of the Government, to satisfy himself by any method he pleaded, as to tho genuineness of the request. Mot an Experiment. In • asking for a referendum on the subject they were not asking for anything that was novol, or anything that was in the nature' of an experiment. The home of the referendum was- in Switzerland, and there tho law provided that 30,000 people 'could take the initiative. The population of Switzerland in 1910 was 3,738,600. The proportion of the population required to take the initiative was less than one per cent. This proposal of the Leaguo was already signed, by, 18.9 per cent, of of Neiv Zealand, or about rime'times tho percentage of tho population required in .Switzerland. And the referendum, . had been applied, to this .very .problem of religious instruction not only in Switzerland, but in countries under the same democratic Government as New Zealand, such as South Australia, Victoria, and Queensland. . Nor was the referendum a new thing in New Zealand. Mr. Seddon had brought down a general Referendum Bill, which had passed tho Lower House, and Mr. Sidey had introduced a Bill dealing with the subject, which had passod its second reading. In New Zealand, too, the referendum principle was admitted on such matters ns Temperance, weokly lialf-holiday, and certain municipal affairs. The League urged also that another advantage of tho referendum was that the least possible disturbance, was caused to political parties. Members of tho executive of the League were determined as far as possible to keep the question from becoming a political issue, and they were of opinion that the qnly way this could bo done was to allow the people to settle the question by a dircct vote. They did not deny , that strong feeling existed on the question, but they said it should bo settled rather by a referendum than by forcing it on to tho political platform to determine the election .of members of Parliament.- Their proposal was to give to their opponents the fullest possible opportunity of , voting against them. He would make no comment on tho matter, but would merely mention that their opponents wished to prevent a vote being taken on the question. The Leaguo asked not that members of one church should vote, but that every individual in the community should have an opportunity of voting. No method would moro clearly express the will of the people on this matter. The Alleged Ulterior Motlvo. Bishop Sprott read'tho text of the resolution passed by tho Anglican Synod at Nelson in February last. In effect it "reaffirmed" the, platform of tho Bible-in-Schools Leaguo, and endorsed the League's proposal to call upon tho Government to permit a referendum to bo taken on the' question. Ho noted tlio word "reaffirmed," and said that this, was not tho first and only occasion upon which this resolution had been carried by tho supremo governing body of the Church. Tho ■samo resolution had been carried in all six of the diocesan synods of the Church. Tlicro had been expressed in some quarters a doubt of _ tho bona fides of tho English Church in this matter. The Church was supposed to have some ulterior object that was not visablo to the naked eye. The ground for tho suspicion was 110 doubt that the mother Church of England maintained many thousands of church schools, for which she received State aid. It was perhaps not unnatural to supposo that members of tho Anglican communion throughout tho world might hold tho same views on this question as did tho "parent church. Ho wishecT'to denv tins with the utmost emphasis. Ho hud been 26 years in Now Zealand in the dioceses of Auckland and Wellington; ho had been present at many synods, diocesan and general, and his experience had been thait during those 26 years there Ibarl been 110 voice, no potent voice, raised in support of a State-aided denomination!! 1" system of educations in this country. Anglicans wore convinced that owing to the entirely different circumstances which obtained in New Zealand as contrasted wiifh the Old Land and to tho entirely different circumstances in particular that the Mother Church of England was established as the national church of tho country, whoreas it was not so in New Zealand, tho present national system of educa- > tion was tlie system best suited to New Zealand, provided that it could bo amended bv the addition of this element of religious instruction. A True Parallel. If people wished to understand the real mind of tho English Church m New Zealand thoy should look at other branches of tlio English Church, who were, in practically tlio samo circumstances as tho Church in „iew Zealand,

rather than to tho old Church in the Old Land to discover it. Anglicans in Australia were in practically tho same position as in Now Zealand, and ho could affirm without contradiction that in tliGso States of Australia whoro the system of religious instruction now asked for in New Zealand was in forco the Church of England had loyally abided by tllie national system, and had not raised its voice in favour of a State-aided denominational system of education. Tho question was not raised in these States, and ho could assure the Primo Minister with confidence that if this addition wcro made to our national systom tho question would not bo raised here. It was sometimes said that tho present system of education here was neutral, but with all due Tespcct to those who made that statement, ho ventured to suggest that just for the moment they forgot just what education was. If education neglected to develop any one side of a person's nature, it could not bo called neutral. It was not neutrality to leave out any part of tho whole that made up education. The Anglicans felt that it was of tho greatest importance that tho idea of God should bo brought into the closest association in men's minds,- with tho idea of duty. They had no belief that duty could be mado effective apart from the idea of God. They had 110 belief that children could bo taught duty unless it could bo shown to them embodied in a personal will, and attendance at school being tho chief part of a child's daily duty, it was essential that instruction in the, idea of God should bo given, to the "child in close association with that daily duty. "I understand," ho said in conclusion, "that our present system is not quite neutral; I believe that lessons are given to children upon Mohammedanism and Confucianism, and things like that. In other words, wo are making our children honorary members of all religions except their own." Basis of Good Government. Mr. John Studholme spoke as a representative of the laity of the Church of England, and he said the laymen of tho Church, while as keenly alive as any ono of their opponents could bo to the superiority of a national system _ of education over any form of denomina- ■ tional education, could not understand why in New Zealand tho granting to those persons who desired it tho opportunity of ■ having their children taught religion in the schools should be incompatible with a national system or in any way injurious to it. They held, on tho contrary, that tho granting of this opportunity would cut at tho root of tho educational unrest in this country, and would assure the continued existence of tho system as nothing else could. They believed also that tho referendum was the only satisfactory and complete way of settling ( a I matter which was of such personal concorn to oach individual elector. They asked that the referendum be taken at the next general election, because they knew that if it were longer deferred this question of a referendum could not be kept from becoming a test question in every electorate. There wore so largo a number of electors who wore convinced that the right training of their children was the only secure basis of good government, that this question of a referendum would be mado to overshadow all party or other political considerations, and would bccomo a great cross-current and disturbing element in the politics of this country. Presbyterians' Support. ' . The Rev. Dr. Gibb presented tho resolution in support of the League's platform, carried unanimously by the Presbyterian Gbnoral Assembly. In the Presbyterian, Church, he said, before tho General Assembly expressed its opinion on a matter of. great, importance, the question was "always referred first to tho subordinate 'courts of the Church. He wished to emphasise tho'fact that in this matter, the General Assembly had proceeded along constitutional lines, and had, before passing an opinion on it, obtained a favourable report on it from a largo number, a distinct maority, of the presbyteries of the Church, and an unfavourable report from none. He had been some twenty-eight years in the Presbyterian Church in New Zealand, and in all that time he had never known any question discussed in the Assembly on which there was a larger measure of unanimity or greater enthusiasm among members than there • had been on this question. The Presbyterian Church represented some 240,000 people in New Zealand, and a very largo number of them bad signed-the cards circulated by tho League. Between 600 and 600 of'his own congregation had signed them. Ho wished to refer to the objection raised to tho League's proposal, on the ground that if they were given effect to even to tho extent of submitting tho question to the people by way of referendum the religious convictions of certain sections of the community yrould be violated. He desired to point out that they were exceedingly anxious that the conscientious scruples of anybody and everybody should be safeguarded. No child would be asked to attend any of the classes taken by teacher or minister if the parent or guardian of that child objected. "Conscience." "But," he said, "I should like to point out that we, too, have'a conscience. Our conscience is being violated by this secular system which at present obtains. We aro asking whether wo should not be allowed to say whether we may bo allowed to educate our children in what we consider to be tho only right manner." It was claimed, he continued, that under tho proposed systom tho State would bo teaching religion. He believed,, generally, that tho Church and the State should be entirely separated, but a theoretically perfect line of clpavago was impossible so long as the majority of the community was Christian. Tho prison-' ors .in tho gaols were instructed m religion ; tho Territorial camps were thrown open to chaplains, who held services in thorn; and the proceedings of Parliament wore opened _ daily with prayers. However . desirable, then, it might be that therel should bo a complete severance of tho affairs of religion and the affairs of the State, practically it was impossible to make this severance. And it was strange that religion might be taught in the prisons and tho military camps, and that tho Houses of Parliament wore opened with prayer, but that all teaching about God and religion was to be excluded from tho schools. So far as tlief present movement was concerned there would bo no possibility of peace in Now Zealand until tho Government gave the people a clear opportunity of saying whether or not they desired that their children should have thd Word of God read to them in tho schools of this country, and that an opportunity sfhould ho given to ministers of religion l to teach their young people in theso institutions the faith of their faWiers. Mr. J; G. W. Aitken spoke as a representative of tho laymen of the Presbyterian Church in support of tho referendum. , For the Methodists. The Hev. J. J. Lewis submitted to tlio Prime Minister tho resolution in favour of the league's proposal passed by tilie last General Conference of the Methodist Churdh in Now Zealand. Before the motion was submitted to the conference, ho said, a representative committee had sat repeatedly to collect all tho evidence that could be brought on this subject. On that committee were several who began by being hostile to the proposal, but as the result of tho evidence coming from other States they all became advocates of tlio proposal. Tho movement, lie believed, was supported not onlv by tho great Churches, but by the working classes generally. Thousands of men who attended no place of worship were vet anxious to secure this greatest posßiblo

good for their children. Ho would say that the opinion of tho Methodist Church was that tho Government had 110 inoro right to exclude tho Biblofrom tlio schools than it had to cxcludo God's and fresh air.

Tho Rov. C. S. Cook spoke in support of the proposal on behalf of the laymen of the Methodist' Church. Brigadier Gist rend a letter in advocacy of the referendum from Commissioner Richards, head of tlio Salvation Army in Now Zealand. A Teacher Speaks. Mr. G. Flux spoke as a representative of the teaching profession. Ho did not claim, he said, to represent all the teaeliers, or to represent all the intelligence of the profession, but lie did claim to speak for a considerable minority of teachers. One great reason for teaching tlio Bible to children was that it was the surest basis for teaching morality and character building, and was tlio great classic in character building. Another reason was that as th© Bible stood supreme as an influence on tho literature of the world it should not bo withheld from children at a timo When their love for literature was being fostered.