STATE ADVANCES.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1824, 9 August 1913, Page 6

STATE ADVANCES.

BILL IN COMMITTEE, NATIVE LEASE, DIFFICULTY, The State Advances Bill was committed. Mr. V. H. Heed and Mr. C. K. Wilson both drew the attention of the Minister to the fact that the . Stato Advances Board did not since tho repeal in 1309 of the Act of 1905 accept Native leases as securities fo'r advances. Thi3 was a menace to the country, in that it was a serious hindrance to settlement. The Hon. J. Alien said that tho matter had been brought under his notice recontly, and he had referred to the Crown Law Office the question as to whether there was any difference between the leases issued 6inco the 1909 Act. and those issued eariior. He had boen advised that thero was, and that' the 1909 leases woro not desirable securities. lie had thorenpon suggested to the Minister for' Native Affairs that the leases' Should be amended, to make them better securities.

Mr. Bowl and Mr. Wilson joined in asking the Minister to make provision in the Bill fo make the leases sound securities. Delay would bs serious, and would moan ruin to numbers of settlers who liad boon struggling for yoo.rs, and who had already exhausted all their resources. The Hon. A. T. Ngata said ho differed from tho Crown Law Ofiieo opinion regarding the leases. He thought that the leases uindcr tho 1009 Act wero better than the leases preceding it, and it was a fact that in tho framing of tho Native Land Act, 1909, some care was exorcised to removo, eomo of tho objections to tho leases under the 1905 Act. The Hon. J., Allen said that if, as was alleged, tlio 1909 leases wero. as good as those under tho 1005 Act, ho would undertake that tlio 10i)9 leases would be included within the scope of tho Bill. If it was discovered that they wsro not so good as thoso of 1005, then he would undertake that go-soon as h,® was assured that tho 1909 leases were so impirovod as to bo safo securities, he would includo them in the schedule of his Bill. Mr. W. D. S. Macdonald noted that tho Minister liad under ttua Bill reduced the maximum to bo lent to a settlor from £3000 to £1500. Ho recognised that very probably for, a year or; two the Minister would not bo ablo to lend more than £1500 to any ono settlor, but it.was not advisable, Mr. Macdonald suggested, to reduce tlio maximum for tho future. Tho Hon. W. H. Herries said ho was prepared with provisions in his Bill to be submitted this voar to make the leases of Native lands better, than those granted under tho 1909 Act, but lie could not ogree to cancol by legislation covenants of lease already entered into, and to do so without the consent 'if tho parties. For bis own part, lie did not see what the Crown Law Office found to cavil at in the leases under tho 1909 Act. Tho. short title of iho Bill was passed after 50 minutes' debate. Minister on tho Board.' Mr.. R. M'Call-um moved on amendment to Clause 12 to the effect that the Minister be added to thlo Advances Board, instead of ono of the two public Earvants who, it.was proposed, ehould bo added to the board. The supper adjournment interrupted tho debate on tho question, and it did not develop as debates on this and similar questions havo developed on other occasions recently. The clause was adopted without amendment. Native Leases Again, When on Clause 32, dealing with the classes of land on which money may bo advanced, Mr. V. H. Reed moved an amendment to permit the board to lend money on leases under tho Maori Land Act of 1009. The Hon. J. Allen hoped tho member would not press the amendment. He had already given the assurance that if tho leases were rectified, by. legislation or otherwise, he would arrange, to includo the leases in question in the scope of the Bill by .Order-in-Council. Mr. Eeed said ho would go on with his amendment. It was a matter of the greatest importance to lessees that they should have tho assurance that if they held on to their lands they would get relief. Mr. C. K. Wilson said ho was satisfied with tho Minister's promise, but the settlers were still np against tho Native Land Dopartment. Would tho Minister in charge of that Department say tbat ho would take steps to havo tho leases put right? . . . , The Hon. W. H. Hemes said ho was prepared to remedy the difficulty, if such existed, by legislation, but this could only apply to future leases. It would bo manifestly wrong to break by legislation leases already entered into. He did not think the House should ask him to do this, which would bo retrospective legislation of the most virulent kind. Mr. C. K. Wilson argued that un- ■ less tho teases were made good soourlJles, tjw i&torcfits of the Nfttlvca .rare jwfc

'being protected,, because if advances were not obtainable on them they would not bo taken up. Tho Minister 6aid that if the amendment were carried it would be mandatory on tho board to advance on these leases, whether the board thought they were good securities or not. Tho Hon. A. T. Ngata said tho member for the Bay of Islands would lie well advised not to press his amendment, and he advised the Minister in charge of tho Bill to resist it firmly. Mr. W. D. S. Mac Donald said he sympathised with Mr. Eeed and Mr. Wilson, but ho did not suggest that tho Minister should accept tho amendment; but the amount of pressure that had been brought to bear on tho Minister would mako tho Government realise that this viery important matter of advances on Native leases should not any longer bo allowed to drift. Mr. V. H. Reed said tho matter had been so well ventilated that ho would not further press his amendment. The amendment was defeated on the voices. Limit cn Advances. Mr. W. D. S. MacDomali moved to have the maximum amount which could lio advanced to a settlor increased from .£ISOO to .£3OOO. Mr. R. M'Callum supported this proposition. The Hon. W. F. Massey said he thought tho amendment was a mistake. If the limit wero increased, and money Vfera lent out in largo 6ums, it would not be for tho benefit_ of the small men. In times of scarcity tho men who would bo the first to suffer would be the men wanting .£SOO or i!GOO, and for his own part he would rather lend six amounts of .£SOO to six different settlers than .£3009 to on© settler. Ho would remind tho honourable mornbar that this was not the only tending Department of the State. The man who wanted'a large sum of money could got it from tho Public Trustee, and it had always teen intended that the Advances to Settlers' Department should assist tho 6iuall 6cttler. . Mr. J. A. Toting suggested to the Minister that ha make tho limit ,£2OOO. Mr. Allen accepted tho suggestion, and moved an amendment accordingly. Mr. R. M'Callum urged that the Minister should not bind himself at such a low maximum. He (Mr. M'Callum) knew of cases of poor men going on to rough hill or bush country who needed advances of more than <£2000. Mr. Macdonald withdrew his amendment, and the Minister's amendment was carried. The Limit for Workers. Mr. W. A. Veitcli pointed out that tho effect of ' the limit of ,£450 on advances to workers was that working men could not take advantago of the Act. In the larger cities a section of land worth putting a home on cost such a great deal that a loan of was useless to' any working nian who had not a fair amount of money. Especially was this so when, at times of stringency, preference was ffiven to apnlieations for .£3OO or less. Ho suggested that special limits should be fixed for the cities. Tho Hon. J. Allen said that in epito of tho stringency tho Department had been able last year to advnneo .£450,000 to workors, and a great deal of the money had gone to Auckland. The Hon. W. F, Massey said tliat a return laid on the tablo a few days ago showed that from July, 1912. to Juno 30, 1913, a total of 1112 workers obtained loans aggregating .-£336,340. Loans of £400 or over wero obtained by. 241 of tlio 1112 workers. Mr. Massey added that the limit upon loans had only been reduced from ,£4OO to .£3OO for a brief period. Clause 57 was the last to bo discussed. Tho remaining clauses (there are 74 in all besides half a dozen • schedules) made no alteration in tho existing law, and were passed en bloc. The Bill was reported with amendments at 11.15 p.m.

METHODIST CHURCH. %LE UNION BILL'. The Hon. W. P. MASSEY moved the second reading of the Methodist Union Bill. He said that it pave effect to the union' of tho Methodist and Primitive Methodist Churches, arranged in Wellington some time ago, and especially arranged" for the property of the two Churches being vested in tho Methodist Church. There was no discussion, and tho Bill was read a second time on tho voices. It was before tho Houso for just two minutes. Tho House roso at 11.19 p.m.