IMPREST SUPPLY.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1816, 31 July 1913, Page 8

IMPREST SUPPLY.

GOVERNMENT & CRITICS,

MR. G. W. RUSSELL ON FINANCE

As soon as the House resumed in tho evening, an Imprest Supply Bill was introduced by Governor's Message. Jlr. Or.. W. RUSSELL (Avon) regretted that the Government had taken away ono of the days allotted to private members, instead of bringing down the Imprest Supply Bill on tho previous day. Ho went on to accuse tiie Government of blocking returns asked for by members on the Opposition side of the House. When in Upposition, tho.members of tho Government had continually complained that information was refused by the Government of the day; they now showed a most remarkable discrimination in refusing returns to Opposition members. Por instance, one return had been blocked in winch he had asked for information as to the Government's intentions in regard to naval policy. When in Canada the Hon. Jas. Allen.' had sketched proposals which he woulil lay before his colleagues on returning to New Zealand. After returning to the Dominion, tho Minister had indicated that his proposals would be made public as soon as tho Prima Minister was ready to do so. In spito of these facts, the' Government had not yet laid before tho House tho information on the subject of naval policy to which, as guardians of the public purse, members were, entitled. Tho Government, in a similar way, had refused information, which presumably it dared not -supply, regarding transactions under the Lands for Settlement Act. Information had also'been refused regarding the appointment of Mr. Royd. Garlick as Director of Physical Education. The Government, now that it was on the Treasury benches, was continually going back upon its pretensions when in Opposition. Quoting from a return furnished on tho previous day, Mr. Russell said that •£IOO,OOO had been borrowed in London to assist in meeting the costs and charges of the much-boomed tlirco and a half million loan. Government members: It is always done. Jlr. Russell said that tlio Government, stung by Opposition criticism, had raised tho rate upon Post Office deposits. Treasury Bills. The Government had raised upon Treasury Bills ,£IOO,OOO from tho Post Office, two sums of iIOO.OOO each from tho State Guaranteed Advances Department. Evidently they were depleting the finances of th'O State Guaranteed Advances Department in order to borrow for the ordinary purposes of Government. But what would lion, members think of this —the Government had borrowed .£50,000 from the New Zealand Loan and Mercantile Agency Company? This meant that tho money that .should be availablo to tanners ami business people was being absorbed by a. necessitous Government. Mi*. Russell criticised at some length tlio action of tlio Government in going into tho open market for "a tinpot .£50,000." I" addition to this they Had borrowed .£30,000 in order to finance operations under tile Aid to "Water Power Works Act, 1910. No moro lurid light had ever been thrown upon the finances of any country, ho declared, tlia.il by tho return for which they had to thank tho member for Hutt.

Mr. Royd Garlick. He wished to say something further about the appointment of Mr. lioyd Garlick ns Director of Physical Education. What defenco had tlie Minister for Education to give for his oulrageous and unconstitutional action? What could tho Government, which had cried out against political inlluonce in the Public Service, say of this apnointment? A man was wanted for the'position, and a committeo was called, of which the gentleman appointed was a member, and tho committco recommended him. The man who was appointed was a masseur and physical cultnri.-t in Wellington, and his business was brill? slill 'carried on. not in his own name, but in tins najue of his wife. Mo

could not of his own knowledge criticise llr. Garlick's capabilities, but ho had been advised, by men who had undoubted proofs of their own iiualilications, that llr. Garliek was not competent to fill the'position. If the position had been advertised, a better man could havo been secured at a loss .salary than .CtiOO a year. Why tho Secretary tor Labour received oi.lv '.L-530, the Secretary for Customs, who Imidled three millions annually, received onlv I'lifiO, the Parliamentary Librarian • ■£550, and the Government Architect, who was capable of designing all our big public building, received onlv .Ma a year more than the masseur the -Minister had picked up in Wellington and shot into tho Public ,s'erviee! And there was not a heaiimast n' in the Dominion who received as much "as JMOD a year. What were the Government going to do about it? Were they »oiii" to sink all their avowed prineipWawF let things stand as they were? lie thought it more likely that scon Mr. Royd Garliek would be handing ill lii.s resignation to get the Government out of an awkward position. (Laughter from the Government benches.) Mr. Isitt: A very sick laugh.

Mr. Russell challenged members of the Government to get up and defend tho appointment. Mr. Kosworthy: Wo it. i Upper Housa Reform. Mr. Russell went 011 to say that the Government were, in his opinion, going the wrong way about reform of the Upper House, The whole thing should be lilted above party. If possible a joint committee of both Houses should be set up to consider some lueasuro that would bo a rc-form of the existing system, which should be entirely swept away. But he did not want to see the Upper llou.se made stronger than tho papular Chamber as it would be if it were electcd from large districts by proportional representation, He was moved to advise caution in view of tho position lately created in Australia,

AN EX-MINISTER. ON NATIVE LANDS AND PUBLIC WORKS. Mr. W. D. S. MACDONALD (Bay of Plenty) criticised 'the present Government's Native land policy. They had cried put against tho Taihoa policy of the late liovernment, but since they had taken office the purchase of Native lands in tho Urcwera Block in the Bay of Plenty had absolutely ceased. He knew thero was difficulty about the purchase, but what was the position of those lands? There were blocks in respect of •which the negotiations were far enough advanced to enable the purchases to be completed with little delay. People in the Bay of Plenty were very anxious to have the Urewera country settled, and they .would very much like to hear from the Minister what the position of these lands was. Thero was reason for delay until recently, but now the Government could not any longer excuse itself for doing nothing. It was frequently said the Natives should pay rates, but it was scarcely reasonable to expect them to pay rates until they had some possibility of getting some return from the land.

lio condemned the Government's recently introduced small contract system for carrying out public works as being by no means preferable to the co-operative system. All the small contracts on tho Gisborne southwards line had been let to one contractor, at a total of ,£37(Jij. Now, ho would, being a business mail, employ only the best men. But the m«n o,n the co-operative, works were not the class of men who oould bo employed by a contractor. They wero admittedly unablo to earn 10s. a day, but only Us. or 7s. a day, and the contractor was com palled by tho law .to pay tho saroa wages to everybody. Ho pointed cut sovcral discrepancies in* tho prices at which oMitraots - wero let, and lie askod w'hothcr tho contracts- had always been let to tho lowest tenderer without regaj'd to whether ho was abloMo do tlio work o.r not. The Government said that owing- to tho huge commitments of tho last Government they could not lc?ep 011 tho co-operative workers, and they wero being discharged all over the country. Ho declared that it was not because of tho commitments, some of which would not bo required for a considerable -time, that the public works- could not 'bo carried on by tho Government at a' reasonable rate. All analysis of tho facts of the position showed that this was an absolute myth. Ho also urged the Government to push on tho geological survey of tho Poverty Bay district, because ho believed there were possibilities of oil resources being discovered in the Gis■borne distriot, even greater than those which were being developed in Taramabi. Ho also wished to point cut to the Minister for Public Health that it was necessary to givo subsidies to medical men in tho outlying districts of the North Island. Subsidies had been paid formerly, but now thev had all been withdrawn.

Mr. Rhodes: They have inot boon withdrawn. They hnvo only been readjusted. Mr. Macdonald said he was Rind to hoar tlie subsidies had not nil been withdrawn, but they had been withdrawn in somo districts of which ho had lcnowICM!.!, r C. Mr. Rlicrle.s: I have re-established nearly all the subsidies. • Mr. Macdonald said that the' prepenco of doctors in the backblocks was tlio best safeguard against epidemics, such as the present one, amcmest the Native population. The subsidies would really hnvo lii' 1 effect of savin*? much money later. ' The Hon. A. T.NGATA (Eastern Maori) amplified tho criticism of tlio member for the Bay of Plenty of the Government's Native land policy. Flaxmill Workers. Mr. J. ROBERTSON (Otaki) complained about the delay of the Labour Department and the Labour Minister in gazetting regulations for the accommodation of flaxmill workers. Ho p6inteu our that the matter had been declared to bo ono of urgency, saying that tho district was, owing to the lack of sanitation, and tho pollution of tho water supply infected with typhoid. The former Government had been severely criticised for its delay in fixing the' situ of an Agricultural College. It seemed to him that the present Government now lay open to tho same reproach. He urged the Government to push 011 with its experiments in ti.o treatment of siuid-drift areas,. Hundreds of acres were being swallowed up by the drifts, nncl tho country could not afford to lose the land. He regretted very much that nothing was to be dons this session to increase tike salaries of teachers. In view of the miserable pittance that was paid to teachers, much of what was said about tho importanco of their occupation sounded like sheer hypocrisy. Out of 4000 teachers in tho Dominion only 9G received salaries of more than J250 a year. The Native Minister. The Hon. W. 11. HERRIES said that the member for the Bay of Plenty knew perfectly well that it was not the Nativp Department but the Lands Department that had acquired'interests in the Urewera country. Tho lion, gentleman also knew that tlieso lands had.been held up owing to a dispute about title. Legislation would bo required to determine tho 'matter. Ho would bo glad to have the advico of tho member for tho Bay of Plenty and the member for Eastern Maori as to whether the Urewera country should be thrown open to general purchase. At present it was closed to everyone except tho Crown. Ho was prepared to purchases Native areas on tho East Coast and in tho King Country, but it would be necessary first of all to bring down a Bill under which tho Government would be able to purchase either by getting the consent of assembled owners or by coming to terms with individual owners. Sinco tho passing of the Act of 1009 the settlement of Native lamb had been' greatly expedited, Ho only regretted that the Bill had not been passed in 1900, instead of tili-o Act passed in that year, which was a retrogrado measure. As to Native land rates, lie hoped to brine down a measure that would enable a local body to recover such rates, not year by year, but by obtaining a judgment covering a term of years. ...Mr. Macdonald: They can do that now. Mr. Ilerries: 1 believe they can, myself. Mr. Macdonald: Thoy won't try. Mr. Herrics: I want to mako it clear that thoy can. As to the subsidising of doctors, he continued, the Native Department had transferred the duty of doing so to tho Health Department. There had been some readjustment, and apparently the Health Department had not as yet subsidised some of the doctors. No doubt it would do so, but, if not, ho would bo glad to take over again the duty of subsidising the doctors. Invective Inadequate. Mr. L. M. ISITT (Christchnrch North) confined his remarks to comment upon the of the member for Otaki, re-

gardiug tho living conditions of flaxmill workers in tho Manawatu. Invective, he said, could not express his indignation at tho inexcusable, callous, criminal carelessness ot tho Government over tho shocking conditions evidenced by JJr. Bryan's report. He accused the Prime Minister ol' having failed absolutely to carry out the promises which lie hod made eight months before. The conclusion seemed to be justified that; thorn was ono administration for the rich and another for the poor. All that the Government had (lone, he said, was to purchase nine motor-cycles for the lite of inspectors, Par eight mouths tho (laxniill workers had been drinking water that was unlit lor human consumption, they had been living in whares not fit for habitation—and the l'rime Minister told them that nine motor-cycles had been purchased for tho use oi inspectors. Air. Isitt also taunted the Prime Minister with finding time to bring in a Bill in the interests of employers while lie could not; find time to remedy the living conditions of tho workers. Mr. Isitt was continuing with 'the same topic, making much of the necessity for safeguarding the lives of the workers. He said the Government obviously did not like his criticism. Mr, Massey: Ho you call it criticism? Mr. Isitt: Yas, 1 do call it criticism, and I don't wonder ithat you smart under it. Mr. Massey: I call it tomfoolery. Mr. Isitt raised a point of order as to whether "tomfoolery" was a permissible word. MR.. SPEAKER held that it was.

PRIME MINISTER RETORTS. INSINUATIONS. METHODS OF PARTY FIGHTING • Tho Hon. W. F. MASSEY (Prime Minister) said ho h;ul heard, that a broadside was lo be loosed against the Government that evening, that an attack was to be delivered wnich would shako the Government to its foundations, but. the grc-at guns had turned out to bo mere pop-guns, not . even loaded with blank cartridge, and -the very smallest of all ithe pop-guns were t'hoso of tho member for Chrastchurch North—tho reverend member for Cbristchureh .North. The member for Avon had made certain references to purchasers of land under the Land for Settlements-Act. The honourable member had evidently wanted to imply 'that thorn had been underhand work in connection with those purchases—that thin Government had been "got at" or something of the kind. Tho Government were responsible for all those purchases, and lis? did not wish to shirk responsibility, but ho wanted honourable members to understand tho law on the subject. He wanted them to know that all tho purchases were made by tho Land Purchase Board, a body constituted by Statute. The purchases wero not by tho Minister. Mr. Forbes: lie approves of them. Mr. Massey: Of course lie approves of them. Ho added that ho did not wish to s'helter behind tho Land Purchase Board, and that all purchases made in his year of office had been entirely satisfactory. No mistakes had been mado in any of tho purchases. Mr. Russell: You haven't mado many. Mr. Massey: More purchases have been made in the,last twelve mouths than in tho two years previous. Unfair Fighting. He detailed the method of opening negotiations for purchase, showing that the Minister had nothing 'to say until the Board recommended tho purchase. Mr. Forbes: You didn't say that when you were in Opposition. Mr. Massey:.! was always fair in Opposition. He did not object, he said, to straight charges anil iair criticism, but he did object to insinuations such as-those made that night by the Opposition. Let tho member lor Avon coma out into the open and say what he thought, instead of making insinuations. The late Government had mado purchases which wero failures, lie could point -out blocks of land- within. 20 miles of Wellington for which the taxpayers' money had been paid, on which not a single settlor was placed now. As to tho suggestion of iniluenco being brought to bear on the Government in regard to. purchases, ho could not think of a single instance cf an owner of land having come to him-about tho jiurchase of a single estate that had been purchased sinco ho had been in office. He was glad to be able to say that every block purchased was taken up at once as soon as it was put on tho market. He repeated that if there w&s anything wrong with his Department, he asked lion, members to make a straight and fair statement of their charges, aiwl lie would meet them. Was it alleged that tho members of .tho Land Purchase Board wero not honest and capable officers? The member for Avon had complained about being unablo to get u return. Did the hon. member know what ho was asking? Did ho understand that lio was asking in Iris motion for particulars of all the mortgagees of lands offered for purchase? But ho would tell the lion, gentleman that it was no part of the business of tho Government to inquiro whether any block or any part of a block of land offered was mortgaged or not. What the Government had to do was to pay for the land, on the dato fixed for payment. Did the hon. member know that tho information lie asked for might, if published, interfere with the settlement of tho land? The Government valuation was very often below the real value, and if the Government valuation was published it would interfere with settlement in some cases. But lie would mako this offer to tho lion, gentleman: ho would give the return if ho would add to his motion another paragraph, asking for all the properties, and the names of tho owners, offered to the Government under the Land for Settlement Act, and also for the Governmentvaluation of tlioso blocks'. Would tho hon. member accept that? Mr. Russell: I don't know what I havo to do with it. Mr. Massey: I know what tho honourable member has to do with it. On the subject of the Government naval policy, he said the proposals of tho Government would be submitted at the proptr time, and it would bo before the end of tho present session. Some of the correspondence received could not, howevc-r, bo made public. Mr. Forbes: Why withhold tho information ? ■ Mr. Massey: Tho honourable member will know the reason when it comes out.

Mr. Russell: When we go through, the pigeon-holes we'll find out. Mr. Masscy:''You will never get an opportunity. 'He added that no Government would ever last that included the honourable gentleman. His presonco in the Mackenzie Ministry had been one of the causes of that Ministry's downlall. Mr. Russell: Was that what gave you your majority? Mr. Massey: I believe it was. The Flaxmill Workers: Bo proceeded to reply to Mr. Pitt's stivteuie.nts regarding flaxmillers' accommodation. The member for Cliristcliurch North, lie said, knew nothing about thn subject, and lie did not think the member would ever learn. There had been some delay, and he regretted it, but lie was not to blame for it. Too much had been attempted under tlio Act of last year. It applied not. only to flaxmillerF. but to sawmill workers and agricultural labourers. Tlio Department tried to bring in regulations that would apply to all those workers, and it was found impossible to do it. It was not difficult to draft regulations that could apply to sawmills and flaxmills, but it was impossible, to draft regulations to apply to fa,nil workers in the extre.mo north ami in tho extreme south, whom (he olimate was so different, to the wealthy farmer, and at tho same timo to tho struggling settler who had just started. It. could not be done. Mr. Riifl-.ell: That means you can't do it.

Mr. Massey: I say that no one dse could do it. He slid that finally it had been agreed to di-on the section of the regulations. And lio would like to ask tho member for Christclnireh North and tho member for Olaki how it was that 110 Act dealing with flaxmill accommodation wns placed on the Statute-book during tho many years tho other party were in office. Nothing had been done until he came into office—llo Act and 110 regulations. Since tho passing of the Act the secretary or the president of the Timber . Workers' Federation had written to him thanking him for having placed the. Act. mi the Statute-bonk mid gazetted the regulations. Mr. Isiß: That is 110 answer io,. this charge. Mr.. Mas=cv: 1 will answer the honourable jrentleman.

"Political Larrikinism." "Now I conic to the member for Christchurch Xorth. Wo have had to-night another example of political larrikinism from tlio honourable gentleman," continued Alt'. Massay. Mr. Forbe3 raised a poiilt of order, asking whether the expression "political larrikinism" was permissible, Mr. Speaker held that it was permissible, and ho was understood to say that it was in order because the word "political" was used. Mr. Forbes i Can you call a man a political thief? (Cries of "Order!") Mr. Massey said it was interesting to watcli til© laces of the strangers in tlio gallery when tlio member for Christclnircii North was speaking. They came to hear and to scs the honourable gentleman for exactly the panic reason as tlio small boy went to the circus. With his usual truthfulness, the honourable member wanted to leave tho _ impression that ho made a distinction between two classes in tho community. The honourable member knew that statement was not correct. Mr. Isitt: I know nothing of tho kind. Mr. Massey: Well, lie ought to know about, it. So far as the Government aro concerncd all classes are equal. The honourable member, lio continued, had left it in the minds of those hearing him that, he ('the Prime Minister) had put through a Bill in the interests of tho employers, and left the interests of the employees unprotected. It was quite true that two Bills wero brought forward last year, one of which —the Water Pollution Bill—was in the interests of employers, but that Bill did not go through. At this stage the lights went out, leaving 'the Chamber in darkness, and by the light of about 50 wax matches members, with much laugh tor, asked tho Minister to go on. Tho Speaker, however, left tho chair, returning three minutes later, when the current came again, i Mr. Massey, resuming, said the honourable member had suggested in almost plain tonus that tho Government had put this Bill through, and. neglected tho Bill in the interests of the employees. The fact was that tho Bill in the interests of employees was put through, and that (he Bill in tils interests of employers was not proceeded with. That was the .position, and -the honourable gentleman should have been, candid enough to admit it. He did not, think there was much more in the speech of the member for Christchurch North calling for a -reply. It had been the usual theatrical display "without very much matter in it.

Those Urge Landowners. The member for Christchurch North had recently said the Government was supported and assisted financially by tho wealthy landowners. TII9 truth was that lie (Mr. Massey) had gone to tho country at last election with less money than any leader in' tho history of the Dominion. He had gone to tho country with less than ,£7OO, and out of that the party organiser, had to receive his salary. It was contrary to fact to sty tho party were financed by the wealthy landowners. The reason for tho delay in introducing the Imprest Bill had been the indisposition of- the Minister for Finance. There had been 110 other reason, and the Bill had been introduced as soon as ppssible. Tho member for Avon should have known that, and if ho did know it his comment on tho matter had been ungenerous.

Extravagance, The member for Avon had spoken of extravagance, but tho only extravagance lie could find was tho appointment of Mr. Hoyd Garlick. To his charges in connection with that appointment tho honourable member would get a full reply from the Minister for Finance. "Sir," 110 said, "we don't need to look for a single appointment to find extravagance. Wo have only to look out of .tho window." Ho declared that the Parliament eroumls works had been an instance of the grossest extravagance and vandalism thai the country had seen, and it had cost tho country tens of thousands of pounds. This money had bc-011 thrown way just as much as if it had been thrown into tho sea. He could give dozens of instances of extravagances, but he would choose another opportunity of doing so, and ho would provo that tens of thousands of pounds had been wasted on these works. Personal Explanations. SII7 G. W; RUSSELL'"stud that he Lad not referred to the case of Mr. Itoyd Garlick as 0110 of extravagance, but as 0110 of improper appointment. As to tho pigeon-holes, speaking at the Wellington Town Hall on July (j, ISIII, Mr. Massey had said that: "It was a good tiling for any Govornment to liavo before it at any time a fear that the other fellows might come along aud have a look in the pigeonholes." This was another case in which the' honourable gentleman had falsified his promises lo the electors. Mr. MASSEY said that 110 had never promised to look into the pigeon-holes. What 110 had said was that it was a good tiling that any Government should have the idea that sooner or later another party might conio along and have a lrok at what had been going 011 behind the scenes, and have a look into , tho pigeonholes.

Jlr. ISITT said that tho IJrinie Minister ter had misrepresented his reference to tho party funds. He had not referred to the secret funds from which the party ■organiser was paid. The Prime Minister's friends the landowners had provided bCSO.OOO with which to start The Dominion. Mr. Isitt quoted from his Hansard proof to show that ho had accural the I'rinie Minister of bringing in, and not of passing) a Bill in tlio interests of ilaxmillowners. The PRIME MINISTER said that tho lion, member had endeavoured to connect hi in with The Dominion newspaper. Ho lilad not a shilling in' The Dominion newspaper. Mr. Isitt: I know that. Tho Prime Minister said that The Dominion newspaper was established long before the Government came into oihee. 'The Dominion, as a matter of fact, was an independent newspaper. (Opposition laughter.) _ lie had not been in ■The Dominion Office for many years past, and he had not ..had an opportunity, tx> far as he remembered, of exchanging a word with tho editor of The Dominion (luring the present sei'doh. Tho editor of The Dominion did not interfere with the policy of the Government, and the Government did not interfere in the slightest with the policy of tho 'newspapers. More From the Critics. Tho Hon. D. BUDDO (lvaiapoi) said that tho Land Purchase Hoard did not purchase, but only recommended. If a wrong purchase went through, the Minister was absolutely responsible. He delended tho work done in preparing the site of the new Parliamentary Buildings, contending that it had Ixeu dona at reasonable cost and had cfi'cctodi important improvements. The Government, lie contended, had not dono all that it might have done to assist fanners through tho Advances to Settlers Department. Some interjections by Jlr., Alien annoyed Jlr. Payne, who rose ill his place and said to the Speaker: "I must ask you to call the Minister for Finance to order for interrupting." Tho Speaker: The ton. gontlomaii will resume Jii.'j. seat. It is my business to call members to order! An Oft-Repeated Charge. Tho Hon. W. FRASER said that ho was not in tho Houso when tho member for the Bay of Plenty was speaking, but ho understood that Mr. Jlacdonaltl had drawn a picture of great woo brought upon wonting men by a hard-hearted minister for Public Works. • The same charge had been advanced by tho member for the Bay of Plenty on lour separate occasions, and had been as often refuted. Ho contended that when a chargo had' been met, and tho answer accepted, 1 it should not Ire brought up again. The Minister continued that he had spent every penny of tho money that ho had promised to spend under Estimates which wore framed last year lo cover tho period until October. 11(13. ' As to dismissals of men this had only happened in two places where tho cngiiuoer had in mistake put on more men than tlio amount of money at command warranted. Ho had kept money enough in hand fo afford' employment during tlio winter. In reference to what Mr. Jlacdonald had said about three small contracts in his district being let to one man, the Minister said that one contract was for .£IOO7. The Guccessful tenderer was JX3 below the engineer's estimate. Other tenderers we're, respectively, .£3OO and XSOO abovo the successful tenderer. In tho ease of the second contract,' tho successful tenderer was JiGO below the engineer's estimate. In the case of tho third contract, the successful tenderer was .£2 Ids. 1.v.10w the engineer's estimate. Three other tenderers were, respectively, .£530, .£OOO. nral JtCOO above the successful tenderer. Under. tho" circumstances. the Jliuister

contended, ho could have dono nothing el-sa than he had done. Tho contracts would have to be curried out simultaneously. Tho small contract system, the Minister! declared, was bettor than tho co-operatiVc system, though work under the latter system was being dono better now I linn it was some years ago. Mr. G. WITTY (lticcurton) oarriod on the debate. Ho said that tho Prime Minister had i'ailud to uphold the dignity of his oflico and the prool' of it was that ho put tho lights out. Mr. Massey: This is very witty! Mr. AVitty denounced the tsilcnco of th« Government on. tlio subject of aural policy and its failure to raise tho sahrier ol teachers. He asserted that .tho Gov eminent was starving" the country financially. He suggested that l)i*. Pomaro should l)o relieved of some of bis present responsibilities in order that he might engage in the samo noblo work as now occupied Dr. Hangihiroa—that of working amongst and helping his own people, Mr. lUissell: Tho ago of miracles is past I

THE HON. JAS, ALLEN. PACTS ABOUT THE FINANCES, llio Hon. .TAMES ALLEN (Minister for r mance) said that the last speaker evidently wished to bo taken as a financial f l ' 11 , so, ho would mlviso liini that it one wished to bo a financial the first thing was to bo accurate. Ili« lion. Gentleman had said that the Advances to Settlers last year amounted to £605,(100. As a fact 0U937,D00 had been advanced to settlers last year. mi ' »« I said eleven months. The Minister said that tho lion, coil* tlciuan had said that had been advanced under Advances to Workers la«t year. The true amount was 41450,000. Mr. witty: 1 hat was for eleven nu ;ths. 1 said so distinctly. t iV 11 *?,, 11 l i . ,listcr . said tliab ho wanted to tell Parliament and tho workers tint the Government had dono even mora than it could have been expected to do loi tho workers: He did not want to see a repetition of three millions of money hoinpr advanced by the Government in one .year—election year, There was one thine ho wanted tho Government not to do— ho did not want it to spend public money in buying constituencies. Mr., Russell Hear, hear! That is a noble sentiment.

llie Minister Said that the member for Avon would never get into Parliament to play ducks and drakes with tho finances. It was tho late Administration that had cut down tho limit in advances to settlers to ,£SOO. , The present Government in twelve months hail raised the amount to ,£GOO, and then to JC7SO. It was true that the limit under advances to workers had boon lowered for a few .months to £300, but it had since'been raised. Mr. Davey: But you are not advancing much now. Tho'Minister said that during tho past two months the sum of .£150,000 had been advanced to settlers, and JCGO.OOO under advances to workers. He wished to re. mind the House' and tho country that this was being done it a timo of financial stringeifcy. As Minister for. Finance, 110 could say that an increase of £178,000 in public works expenditure was too much, and that was the increase in the expenditure sinco the beginning of the year. Expenditure was going on now at the rato of £200,000 per month, and 110 did not think this rate could be kept up. Tho correspondence ho had received from tho Admiralty had come to him as a member of the Committee 'of Imperial Defence, and it was not only confidential, but absolutely secret. It could not be laid upon the table, Mr. Russell: What have you committed New Zealand to? 1 Mr. Allen: I will tell tho honourable gentleman that I have committed New Zealand to nothing, neither in regard to expeditionary force nor in connection with the naval defence of .■New Zealand. He added that the correspondence was still going on, and until it was completed it could not bo divulged. At the proper time tho Government proposals would lw made known.

Mr. Kussell: You can't keep thoss tenches if your proposals are turned down. (Laughter.) Mr. Allen said ho. would lie very sorry to seo-defence.made a.party question, as it had been in Canada. Ho hoped responsible members on both sides of tho House would realise that it was too big a question to bo made & party issue. He believed New Zealand was absolutely patriotic, and whon last tlio cry came for her help there was a generous response to it. But - if wo had been prepared for tlio rail tho men would have liecn better equipped, and lie believed tho lives of some of till em might have been saved. Tho law was perfectly clear: there was 110 possibility of a man being sent out of the country against: his will. Mr. Nosworthy: They know that. _ Mr, Allen: Of course tliey know it. Mr. Russell: AYhy did you make tho offer ? Mr. Allen: I made no offer. The Royd Garlick Oharges.

He went oil to say that all the charges in connection with tlio appointment of Mr. Royd Garlick would bo investigated l>y a Committee. It had been said that lie had appointed a personal friend to the position of director of physical education. He would say to them again, and to tho country, that ho did not know Mr. Royd Garlick before 'ho began to seek a suitable man for tho position. 110 explained why the appointment was made witliout calling applications. First of all the junior cadet system was abolished, and the .physical education system which it was .proposed to introduce was headless and in a stato of chaos. It was necesrar.v to do semetiling at once, and ho did not think it was weli to advertise, as it would have been necessary to advertise in England as well as in Australia. Mr. Hoyd Garlick was highly recommended, and Jie Appointed liiin. Was it not a Minister's duty to act upon his own judgment when the cccasion demanded it as this occasion did. lie could very easily have advertised and made tlio same appointment, but would .that have been an honourable thing to do? Mr. Garlick had been strongly recommended — Mr. Russell: By the Department? Mr. Allen: Yes, by the Department. Mr. Noswortiiy: That's a nasty one. Mr. Allen: The honourable gentleman can look at the filo if ho likes. Jlr. Fisher: Let liiui look at the pigeonholes.

Mr. Allen also said that ho was not looking for a man who was merely a physical culture expert, but a man who was capable of taking cliargo of a big ar.d important department, which would do very important work for the Slate. Ho attached very great' imparlance lo tlio improvement of the physique of our children, even more importance than to tho education of the children. Surely the ccutrol of this work was most important, and surely a man who could be entrusted vith it was worth a salary of .£OOO a year. Ho believed that in Jlr. Boyd Garlick he had secured .such a man. Referring to tho criticism of the borrowings of the Government, and especially to the criticism of Ihe raising of money to defray the cost of tho three million loan, Jlr. Allen said the member for Avon knew perfectly w*ll that tlio Finance Minister was authorised to raise money for this purpose. It had been so authorised every year. Tim honourable member had complained about his accepting a short-dialed loan from the Post Office, He would have taken a long-dated loan, but tho Post OlTicc had net wished to have a long-dated security.

At 0.35 a.m. the House went into Committee of Supply, and the Bill went through its .several etaijas without further debate. The House rose at 0.50 n.m.