COPYRIGHT LAW.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1812, 26 July 1913, Page 6

COPYRIGHT LAW.

BILL COMMITTED. AN INTERNATIONAL UNDERSTANDING. At 3.10 p.m. the House went'into Committee on the Copyright Bill. Mr- G- W. RUkSELL (Avon) asked the Minister to explain what alterations of importance were contained in this Bill as compared with the existing law If there were no important alterations it would not b<; worth while spending any time on the Bill. Thb Hon. A. L. HERDMAN said that he had fully explained tlio Bill sft opening the second reading debate. It pro. posed some very important alterations. If passed into lair it would bring- the New Zealand law of copyright into- line with Hint of Great Britain, France, and other European' countries and the Commonwealth of Australia. These nations had agreed to carry out conditions relating to copyright laid down by a convention held at Berlin in 1909. One of the most important alterations in the Bill dealt w.ith tho term of copyright. The present term under New Zealand law was 28 yearn, or the life of the author. Prior to 1911 the term under the English law was 42 years, or the life of th« author. The Bill proposed a term of the life of the author and 30 years afterwards. Mr. Russell: It is. too lonz altogether. ■Mr. Herdman said that if New Zealand did. not .adopt this provision it would not become entitled ' to. reciprocal protection in, England and the other countries mentioned. He advised the House to accept the term provided in the Bill. In modern times the market was flooded with all kinds of literature, and communications between one country and another were easy. Mr. Russell: Yes, but prices are ngainst us a.ll the time on account of our distance. Mr. Herdman said ho was informed by the gentleman in charge of the Copyright Office here that when a work had been in existence for ten or fifteen years it became quite cheap. There were, besides, a number of safeguards. For Instance, it was provided that within the copyright term any person might publish a book on giving notice in a prescribed form and paying a royalty. ■

Some Proposals. Mr. G. W. RUSSELL (Avon) said Unit the number of authors and artists, exclusive of photographers, in Now Zealand who would benefit under the law of copyright was very small. What ho would like to see was some reciprocity which would benefit New Zealand in the matter of prioe. He suggested that it might be possible to obtain some revenue from outside countries which benefited under tho copyright law. Money eo derived might .be us3d as a fund to encourage aTtistic ''development in this country. The pro. posed term was very long. He thought l that the Government should reserve power .to republish portions of books dealing with agriculture or mining, for the benefit of the general population, just as ho thought that the Government should have power to reproduce any patent in its workshops provided it was done for the benefit of the general population. In answer to Mr. W. Tl. ]). 8011, tho Minister said that the Bill differed from tho English Act only in minor particulars. Clause 15, dealing with the issue of search warrants in ca=o of breach of copyright, did not appear in the English Act, and was taken from the Australian Act. > The same aouliod to f-lausa 18, providinK

that the owner of a performing right might forbid a performance in infringement of his right. In England, the Minister added, no registration was necessary under the new law. Publication was euough to secure copyright protection. Under the Bill before the House, registration was purely optional. Part I), dealing with registration aud the establishment of the copyright office, was not included in the English Act. Answering Dr. Newman, the Minister said that tho reproduction by New Zealand newspapers of pictures published in England would be an infringement if the Bill became law. Dr. Newman said that this would be a great hardship. A Word to "Undo Sam." Mr. 1! USSELL/Said that America granted no copyright '6> English authors unless books were printed in America from typo set up there. He took it that this Bill would not confer any copyright protection upon American productions. The Minister indicated that it would not. Mr. Russell said that in that case it would be quite open to New Zealand publishers to make use to any extent .of books, pictures, etc., produced in America. If they served. "Unclo Sam" with a little of his own sauce it might bring him to his senses. Mr. M'CALLUM suggested that tho term of copyright should be reduced, and that thero should be differentiation of royalties on works of liction, and on scientific and other works. Air. ISITT said that there was no need to bo uneasy about the price of books. They were marvellously cheap. Mr. HERDMAN repeated that the benefits of the reciprocal arrangement would be lost iinless the conditions of the English Act were adhered to. The terms of an author's life and fifty years had been determined in England after much evidence had been heard. It was agreed that copies of'all books first published in New Zealand should be forwarded to the General Assembly Library and to the University College at Auckland, Wellington, Christchiireh, and Dunedin. The Bill was reported -with minor amendments.

PENSIONS RECIPROCITY, AGREEMENT WITH AUSTRALIA. The Eon. P. M. B. FISHER moved theseconcij Reading of the Uld Age Pensions Reciprocity bill. He said tuat he had little to add to what he had already explained to the House about the provisions of the Bill when he introduced it. The scheme was that pensions should be paid to persons now debarred from receiving them by the existing laws of Australia and New Zealand, if a person left Australia to come to New Zealand, and in New Zealand applied for a pension'before lie had been long enough in New Zealand to qualify for one, lie could not now receive one. The- proposal was that pensions should be paid to people similarly situated both in Australia and in New Zealand, provided ■ that their cumulative times of residence iu both countries were sufficient to qualify tliemfor a pension. It was' provided in the Bill that the applicant for a pension must have bcon twelve months in residence in one country before applying for a pension. The pension paid to such an applicant would Lo paid out of separate accounts, in both countries, and the liability of the two countries would be assessed on the population of each country. At present New Zealand would pay about one-sixtli of what Australia would pay. It was impossible to say what tho reciprocity arrangement would cost, because tho number of applications to he made under it could not be estimated. Mr. G. WITTY (Kiccarton) congratulated tho Minister on having introduced such a good measure. Mr. T. H. DAVEY (Christchurclr East) asked whether tho conditions attaching to the granting of a pension differed very greatly in the two countries. The Hon. P. JI. B. FISHER said that in Australia old age pensioners numbered 1.75 per cent, of the population, and in New Zealand, 1.50 per cent. He explained the differences in qualifications for tho pension in the two countries, but said tho Pensions Bill to be introduced later would make our law more like the Australian What Liability? Sir WALTER BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) said that it appeared to him impossible to discover fno probable liability of this country under the Bill, owing lo the differences in qualifications required in the two countries, and other factors sot calculable. In view of this, it might bo wiser to limit the period of trial to, say, three years. Tho Hon. D. BUDDO (Kaiapoi) hoped the Bill would prove a success, and congratulated tho Government on having introduced it.

Mr. J. A. HANAN (Invercargill) thought the House ought to be supplied with more data as to tho probable cost of the scheme, before it coukl with safety pass the meaS Mr. D. H. GUTHRIE (Oroua) congratulated Mr. Fisher on having successfully accomplished tho most difficult task of arrangiug a reciprocity agreement with Australia for the payment of pensions. He supported the Bill. Mr. G. \V. FORBES (Hurunui) thought tho agreement would relievo cases of undoubted hardship which had occurred in both countries, owing to people, through changing their place of residence from one country to another, losing their pensions. He wiis thoroughly in accord with the principle of tho Bill. Mr. C. A. WILKINSON (Egmont), supported tho Bill, but he felt dubious about passing the Bill without knowing what it would cost. He thought wo might arrange with Australia an agreement to cooperate in defence. It should bo possiblo to arrange also for an interchange of postal notes, and the House eagerly awaited the trade reciprocity proposals. He would liko to see all our pension schemes made contributory if possible. Mr. J. ROBERTSON (Otaki) commended the Bill, and he agresd that the reservation that the agreement should bo tried for fivo years only was advisable Mr. H. J , : l'l. OKEY (Taranaki) asked whether the agreement would hinder the New Zealand Government from amending the pensions law in this country in future. He looked forward to the time when a universal pension scheme could be brought into operation in New ZoaMr. E. H. CLARK (Chalmers) said h= would heartily support tho Bill. Mr. A. HARRIS (Waiteinata) said lie had never known a measure to meet with such general support from both sides of tho House as was given to fhis measure. ■• Mr. J. G. COATES (Kaipara) said that the proposal of the Bill seemed to him to be a liberal one, and not at all in keeping with the hard names—"crusty old Tories," and the like— which the Government were called by the Opposition and their newspapers. He supported the Bill. Mr. J. H. BRADNEY (Auckland West) and Mr. T. M. WILFORD (Hutt) also supported the Bill.

The Hon. F. JI. B. FISHER, in reply, gave a comparison of the cost of pensions schemes in Australia and N ew Zealand. In tho year 1912-13 in New Zealand pensions cost JC415.7G1, and in Australia .£2,200,000. As to the complaint that sufficient data had not been Riven, it was impossible for anyono in Australasia to find out how many people there were in Australasia who would come under this Bill. No record of this could be made in either country. He appreciated the remarks of members of, tho House in commendation of the idea of agreements with Australia. Ho hoped and believed that this, the first, would be the forerunner of many other very desirable agreements which might with advantage be arranged between tho countries. The Bill was read a second time on the voices.

PENSIONS LAW. THE REFORM PROPOSALS. The Hon. F. M. B. FISHER moved the second reading of the Pensions Bill. II was primarily, he said, a consolidation of the! existing law relating to old age, widows' and military pensions. Important amendments introduced provided for the payment of the old ago pension to women at tho iigo of (10, and tho repeal of the income and property qualifications for military pensions. Tho former of these proposals was estimated to increase the annual liability by a sum not exceeding .C 70.000 after tho first twelve months ivhiln the added cost for military pensions would bo anything from £7000 to 0:10,000. At present Hie exemption nT friendly society benefits as income applied only to old uijr pension?. It ivns proposed to extend the exemption, to

widows' pensions. The exemption of relief from charitable- bodies as income now applied only to widows' pensions. This provision was being extended to old ago pensions. Grants from the- goldmincrs' and coalmiuers' relief funds, which had, in tho past, \ylicn takon in a. lump sum, reduced, and in some instances cancelled, both old-age and widows' pensions, were exempted 'from the computation of income. Another clause would permit the reasonable expenditure of capital, however held, without reduction of the pension, where previously such expenditure was restricted to cash withdrawn from tho bank, and, in the case of old-age pensions, limited to fixed amounts. Tho present law providing for a maximum absence of four years during the twentynino preceding the date of application whatever tho total length of residence might be, permitting of an additional six months' absence for every additional year of residence, was amended. The scale of absences allowed, which would bo dependout upon tho length of residence, was as follows:— , Period preceding dato of application. . Absence allowed. Years. Years. 2D 4 31 5 ,13 G :i5 1 :i7 s 39 !) ■11 10 51 15 01 20 Go 22 To have tho benefit of any absence in excess of two years, the applicant must have actually resided in Now Zealand for twelve months immediately preceding the date of his application.

Minister and.Critic. The Minister continued that the member for Avon, the other afternoon, without seeing the Bill, had expressed a fear that the Government intended to aim a deadly blow at the pension system. Now that the member for Avon had seen the Bill, he would no doubt approve it. Mr. Russell: It contains our policy. The Minister said that the abolition of the property disqualification in the case of military pensions was tho first step towards placing tho pension system on a true and proper basis. He hoped that as soon as the country could afford it tho same thing would be the ense in respect of tho old age pension. Military pensions at present cost about .£23,000 a year, and up to the present about 660 old soldiers had been assisted. Under the amendments contained in the Bill every holder of tho New Zealand War medal would bo entitled to the pension, provided his character was good.

An Effective Quotation. He. believed that it was tho true basis of a. pension scheme that the State should assist those who were thrifty and not penalise them. He remembered an occasion during his first session in the Houso when a motion was moved by tho late Mr. T. E. Taylor, member for Christohurch, in which he proposed that under the old ago pension schemo the home should l>3 exempted from computation as reducing the amount of pension. Mr. Ell seconded the motion, and there was a lengthy debate upon it, but Mr. Taylor's motion was defeated. Tho motion read:— "That no Bill dealing with old age pensions will be satisfactory which failg to place the system on a more equitable basi3 by abolishing .the penalties now imposed upon many thrifty, industrious, and deserving old-aso colonists, who, because they possess a home valued at .£270, aro' deprived of all pension; and tho House is of opinion that this injustice should bo removed before the amount of tho pension is increased."

Mr. Fisher said that the whole of the then Oppositioji supported the motion, but amongst those who voted against the exemption of tho homo were Messrs. Buddo, Carroll, Colvin, Davey, Hanan, and M'Gowan. The reading of tho names was punctuated with cries of "Oh!" from the Government benches. The Minister next mentioned Mr. il'Nab. Mr. Massey: He's a "Red Fed:". Mr. Fisher: And tho fierce member for Cavorsham, Ml. Sidey—(laughter}—Mr. J. C. Thomson, Sir Joseph AVard, Mr. AVilford, and Mr. AVitty. ("Oh!" and laughter.) Tho only members of the then Government party who voted witli the Opposition were Messrs. Ell, Taylor, Laurenson, and Fowlds. Mr. Russell: Did yon vote? Mr. Fisher: Yes, I voted the right ivaj, as usual; I voted to exempt the home. Mr. Russell: You were keeping good company in those days! The Government's Position. Mr. Fisher said that the instance ho had quoted was one of those in which Mr. Massey and his party had voted to exempt the home of the old ago pensioner from computation, and had afterwards been accused of voting against an Old Ago Pension Bill. •, Air. liussell: Not in that case. Mr. Massey: Oh, yes. Mr. Fisher said that this and similar oases had been quoted ever and over again. Members of. the party opposite had declared from every platform in tlie country that it was the intention, of the present Government to destroy tho pension system, but he believed that the Government would leave tho pension, scheme in a. much better position than they had found it. Ho hoped, before the Government left office, to see the home exempted in tho case of the old age pensioner, as they wore now doing in the case of military pensioners. This concession would cost the country .£50,000 a year. Tho Minister went on to elaborate his contontion that it was wrong to penalise the thrifty pensioner. Mr. Ell: Bo you favour the contributory pension f Mr. Fisher: I would like to see it, very much. After some further exchanges with the Opposition, the Minister declared that one difficulty opposing tho liberalising of tho pension schemo was that enormous liabilities had been left by tho urevions Government. He instanced the "superannuation schemes. Here he again came into coullict with the Opposition. He asked whether the late Government had done right in making the State provide superannuation for men who had filled comfortable billets for years.

Further Amendments. Describing further amendments embodied in his Bill thp Minister said that tho income exemption, in the case-of a married couple, had been raised from .£OO to .6100 btcause it had been found thot in some receipt, of the raili-i tary pension by a husband had reduced the" amount of his wife's pension. Provision was made that pension payments might bo made some days before Christmas instead of on January 1. Other clauses empowered a magistrate to include property disposed of by will in computing the pension for deceased's husband or wife and provided for an alternativo penalty by way of fine in lieu of imprisonment in eases of fraud.

Some other amendments were proposed, the Minister added, which had not yet been embodied in the Bill. One proposal was that a magistrate might order the pension of a pensioner convicted of drunkenness to be paid on his behalf to a clergyman, justice of the peace, 'or other reputable person. At present a prisoner convicted for a second time of drunkenness was deprived of his pension for six month?, while other persons escaped with a penalty of ss. or .10s. Another projected amendment provided that the original value of <v pensioner's home should always be taken into account in computing his pension so that the pension should not be subject to reduction because the home increased in value. Mr. Witty Resentful. Mr. G. WITTY (Riccarton) congratulated the Minister upon his Bill, but said that he could not congratulate him upon the manner in which he Iwd twitted Opposition members because they voted n« they did some years ago on the motion brought in by Mr. Taylor. The party then in power, Mr. Wil'ty dpclared, (lid not support .Mr. Taylor at that time because they could not afford to on financial ground's and had lo look at Iho matter'in a lirnad light. The mem-' hers oi' the present Government had bitterly opposed the Old Ago Pension in its early stages-. They supported it now because they had to. Mr. Fisher: And you will have to support us. Mr. Witty snid he was prepnrrd to support anything fair and reasonable. To liis mind tin , fioveriimcnt did nnl <»n far enough. With their boasted surplus Hiey should so further than thev were ijnliiff now. Mr, Willy ascovli-rf Hint the Government had provided well-to-do uni-.

versity professors with superannuation allowances. Ho attacked tho provision that women should receive a pension of £20 a year at GO with annual increase of jCI and contended that tho full pension should have been given at once. Air. W. H. 1). BELL (Wellington Suburbs) said that tho longer ho was in tho House the more ho was amazed at what was said by the gentlemen on tho other side. Prior to the. accession to power of the present Government the only argument advanced against its candidates was l.'iat they wore lorcsworii and could not be relied upon to carry out what they hail promised. Hero was tho answer to talk of that kind, liver since the Government came into.office it had answered ils critics with Bill alter Bill. He detailed various items in tho Bill to show that it was in truth a liberal measure. .Mr. If. G. ELL (Christehurch South) quoted from Hansard of 105)8 to show that when ilr. Seddon introduced the Old A«e Pensions Bill Mr. Hemes was then opposed to the 'Jill, and that Mr. Massey was doubtful about the wisdom of establishing anything but a contributory scheme. He stated, however, that he believed that both Mr. Massey and Mr. lasher werq now thoroughly in sympathy with the Bill, but ho was sorry that the Minister in charge of the Bill had been ungenerous enough to refuse to Tecognise the difficult work dono by the pioneers in the pension proposals, as if the present Government were the only people who liad ever dono anything for the aged poor of this country. He commended tho Government for having introduced tho Bill. Mr. T. W. RHODES (Thames) welcomed the Bill as an indication that the Government wero willing to extend humanitarian legislation. Mr. A. H. HIKDMARSH (Wellington South) accused the Minister in charge of the Bill cf sinister motives' in having harried and annoyed the Opposition party .when he introduced the Bill. Mr. I'isher had never been a party man until recently, and had never been forced by the exigencies of party to vote otherwise than as he pleased. On this occasion the Minister must have known the Opposition would recriminate, and that the recriminations would involve his colleagues. He suggested that Mr. Fisher sought thereby to degrade his colleagues for motives of personal ambition. . Ho had no concern ior the feelings of the Liberal party. He was in no way connected with them. Ho supported the Bill.

The Sincerity of the Government. Mr. C. K. WILSON (Taumarunui) said no one could question the sincerity of tho Government in humanitarian legislation. Ho commended the .Bill, and said lie was wrry to see so much party strife about a measure On which tne liouso must be unanimous. lur. J . PAYNE (Grey Lynn) agreed that there was no need lur acrimonious debate on this Jiill, tlie good purpose of which was undoubted. Xiie whoie of the acrimony was attributable to tho "rotten system of party government." Air. J. H. JjKAJJXJSj: (Auckland West) approved of the Bill, expressing the hope mat it would be only tno lorerunner o[ n. universal pensions scheme. He hoped the ■minister would 'in Committee insert an amendment to exempt, as income disqualifying men .lioin the pension, earnings lrom manual labour. Air. E. IJ.1 J . LEE (Oamaru) did not agree that the exemption for the value of a home UE3IU) suould he greater than for personal property, such as cash in tho savings bank, lor which the limit of exemption was .£SO. If a man had no home, he needed the little income from his cash to pay lor his. maintenance sonieMr.G. J. ANDEUSON (Matoura) supported the Bill, as being a step nearer the ultimate aim—a universal pensiou.

Mr. J. H. ESCOTT (Pahiatua) supported the Bill.

The Hon. A. T. NGATA (Eastern Maori) spoke of the need for improvement in the legislation dealing with tho granting of pensions for ageit Maoris. At present these wore paid on the , recommendation of magistrates by the Minister out of the Native Civil List. This Native Civil List was a fund of .67000, of which about .£ISOO was distributed annually , ' in pensions. There was not nearly enough money in .the fund to pay pensions' to all the indigent Maoris. He wouldUiko to see this arrangement done away with, and to see Maoris receive ordinary old-age pensions. Mr. 11. M. CAMPBELL (Hawke's Bay) said he would like to see the military pension given to veterans of the war who were never actually under fire, but who had done such services as running dispatches in nn enemy-infested country. The debate was carried on by Messrs. J. G. Coates (Kaipara), H. J. H. Okey (Taranaki), A. Harris (Waitemata), and 0. VV. Outsell (Avon).