DEFENCE TRAINING.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1800, 12 July 1913, Page 6

DEFENCE TRAINING.

THE RIPA ISLAND'CHARGES. NON-PARTY'DISCUSSION. GENERAL APPROVAL OF THE A AGT. " Tho Hon. JAS. • ALLEN (Minister for Defence) read to the House Departmental reports which he had obtained upon charges in regard • to the treatment of youths'undergoing military detention, at tfipa Island. Mr. Allen said that .he 'thought-that tho heat thing- he could do, ivas-to read the report, which. had- come to him from tho officer in. command .there on July 7, written from the headquarters of the Canterbury. military, district, and having regard to statements made to' Mr. G. W. Kussell, M.P. " . .. Mr.'Allen! read the reports, which' have, already; been published in , summarised' form in. The Dominion. .. After reading the reports, he said that he did not want to make .-any ■ further comment respecting the charges then, and .that thero Was something more to be said in tho matter yet. • Victimisation was. olleged, but the real victimisation was by parents on their bays and other boys who would servo wero it not that they were.being. terrorised 1 . Tho law must not be flouted, and it was the business of tho country to see that tho law was upheld. If the law was wrong, it should bo altered, •if it was right, the House should uphold it. As far as hiyknew, every chargo made .had been proved to bo groundless. He did not , know, if the people believed' the charges .they- made—perhaps thoy- had been misled. He hoped the law would bo respected, and ho hoped for tho cooperatipn of tho House/ . . ... Sarcastic smiles went round tho House when tho Minister, in his reading of tho report, came to a statement that as the officers who had been sent to Itipa Island to investigate and report were. leaving the place, tho youths who,were confined, it was said;',','for conscience salve," : sang "Wo will not drill," aiid shouted, "Go back to tho dog 9 who sent you." The Question of Exemptions. Mr. G. W. IJUSSELL (Avon) said that ho agreed, in largo measure, with what tho Minister had said, but there was one Jispect of the matter ,to which he wished jjtd direct attention. Would tho Minister Jablo the regulations mado under Section ■'3 of tto Act of last year? It seemed to aim absurd that these youths should bo 'sent to Ripa. Island because they refused to drill, and then be sot to cleaning guns, tho same class of work as they had been. sent to the island for refusing to do. Ho commended the suggestion- in tho report road by the Minister that work might bo found by the Public Work's Department for tho youths detained on Itipa Island. Lusty youths, he continued, were hardly likely to be satisfied with any reduction, in their ordinary dietary. Ho had that day presentod a petition which alleged that youths had been subjected to solitary confinement, or imprisonment/ at the dictum of the officer in command at Itipa Island, instead of by tho instruction of A magistrate. No doubt the matter would bo investigated by tho Petitions Committee. He 'could assuro tho'.Minister that .if ho was under tne impression that drills wero being attended systematically by thoso who came under tho Dcfence Act, ho ■was very much mistaken. At Christchurch ■barracks he had seen corps which should have contained 80 men drilling, with only twolvfe or fourteen men in tho ranks, if the Minister took a census of thoso who i should attend parades, and did not, his eyes would bo opened. In come districts thero were considerable numbers of young men who had' never registered, never attended parades, and nover been prosecuted. Mr. Allen i I should bo very glad if you would inform us who they are. Mr. Kussell: I don't know their names, of course. A large number of young men had been turned down, lie continued, because tho Territorial corps wero too full. The main point ho wished to put boforo tho Minister was that if this system, was to bo maintained there must bo no exception'unless there was'.actual physical incapacity,' Short of this,- exemption should.'not ..be. granted . bytho doctors, but bv some system of balloting, or an ■'ouivajent device, approved by tho Legislature. . - • - - ■ •' "A Strong Party Man." ' Mr. L. M. ISITT (ChristchurcK North) said that he had always supported a system of Miivflrsal irpjniucr. oUUoUlrh hjs

| sympathy with a certain section of tho ! conscientious objcctors had exposed- him to misrepresentation, and although ho wag "a pretty strong party man, - he was determined not to approach the defence question from a party standpoint. In tho courso of his succeeding remarks,' Mr. Isitt suggested a novel variation of tho British "Cat "and Mouse" Act. Ho urged that the-"martyr" cry-would bo lessened if youths refusing to do military or alternative service were penalised once a year for three years. Ho expressed tho opinion that tho authorities had erred in attacking the resistance to military training at it 3 strongest instead of its weakest links. : Mr. Myers Speaks Out. Mr. MYERS' (Auckland East) said that a man, meeting him in tho street, had expressed the opinion that if he (Mr. Myers) had-been Minister for Defence he would not have allowed ' the things to occur at Ripa Island which were said to have occurred. He wished to stato that, having listened carefully to tho report which tho Minister had read that afternoon, ho considered that there was not tho slightest justification for these youths expressing themselves as they had done. It was'quito apparent that they' had no just cause of complaint.- Tho Houso, should support the Minister. As representatives of the people it was their duty-not to show any sympathy, with youths of this class. "There is a section of -the community,-" said Mr. Myers, "who have made up their minds that they will hot be amenable to discipline and that they will not recognise the authority of the law. I feel sure that the majority'of the ppople are satisfied and desire that this cimpulsory military training should be made a success. All that I ask is that tho Minister .for . Defence Should review the whole position, and take the Houso into his confidence if ho finds it nccessary to alter any particular line of action. He may feel sure of the sympathy and support of members of this' House." Branding a City. Mr. G. J. ANDERSON (Mataura) said that he agreed with the last speaker that the youths at Ripa Island had no grievance. He considered that the peoplo of 1 Christchurch had shown a very unpatriotic spirit in reference to military train'ing- 1 Sir. Russell: Some of them. Don't brand tho whole city! Mr. Anderson said that public men in' Christchurch had not made it sufficiently clear that they had no sympathy with anti-militarism. Personally ho agreed with the member for Hutt that youths who refused to undergo military training were of very little use to the country and might well bo given a reasonable timo to pack up their traps, sell their property, and get out of thej country. Tho commandant had shown ad--mirable tact in administering the system, | but some of his junior officers had not. Some latitude' in regard to attending drills ;and camp should ho allowed in country districts'. Training periods should-bo so arranged as to .interfere as.little ns possible with business and employment. Mr. J. H. BRADNEY (Auckland West) 'supported the attitude taken by the Minister, and expressed the opinion that if the-youths in detention, had . been de-' barred,;,from' communicating with their friends; a lot of trouble would have' been saved and thoy would eventually have ' been returned to their friends all tho better, for their experience. Mr. A. S. MALCOLM (Clutha) suggested ambulance .training as an alternative form of service. The MINISTER said that the objectors objected to ambulance training. ' Mr. Malcolmi Ah, that is the trouble! An Administrator's Difficulties. The Hon. J AS. ALLEN, speaking in re-ply,-said that ho . valued- very much tlio expressions of- opinion- which had come from both sides of tho House.' It wasr a difficult matter to administer the Defence Act, but tho .difficulty was made almost a pleasant ono becauso of tho way in which members endeavoured to support him in carryipg. it out sympathetically. He had tried to carry it out sympathetically, but- it was impossible to ignore breaches of the law, particularly when they were deliberate. He .would lay' on tho table the regulations for which Mr. Russell'had asked, but they were of an experimental character and subject to re-' vision. Regulations in regard to alternative service had not yet been drafted. Ho had entered into communication with some Mayors of boroughs and cities in the hope of arriving, with their co-opera-.tion) at some acceptable form of alternative service, but tho objection raised was that these youths had- proved themselves so-i objectionable and .difficult to'.control, that the local authorities would have nothing to do with them. As illustrating the difficulties he had-to contend against, tho Minister quoted a letter which he' had received from tho Christchurch Anti-Mili-tarist League, stating that that body had passed amotion, unanimously repudiating the proposal of .equivalent service. "They objected to ;gaol," said Mr.'Allen, "and-I gave them military detention. I- havo treated them in detention with every sympathy and kindness and it has been, I <ini afraid, abused." Under tlio'circurastances, ho continued, it seemed almost hopeless to attempt to solve tho problem ot finding an acceptablo equivalent service. Mr. Isitt: It will break tho link of sympathy with the public. Tho Minister said that ho did not want to see any real objection existing in regard to tho Act.. It would be a tremendous Telief to him if he could find some satisfactory alternative service. 'Some of the men enrolled had been-posted to riflo clubs. Ho did not know whether this would answer or not, but if it did not they would try something else. . Tho whole problem was to arrive at equality ■of service.and sacrifice. .As ho had already stated in the House, he would remit several questions to a committee of tho Houso. He had submitted proposuls for tho order of reference to the Defence Department, and as soon as they cams back, i.n the course of a few days, ho would ask the nouso to set up tho committee. Finally, tho Minister assured ChristchurcTi and West Coast members that he was-aware of their difficulties, and would gladly do what he could to lessen their-burdens.