TRAMWAY CONTROL.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1726, 17 April 1913, Page 6

TRAMWAY CONTROL.

UNIONS WANT REGULATIONS

MINISTER INTERVIEWED.

HON. H. D. BELL FAVOURS LOCAL. CONTROL. Esgulations under tlio Tramways Amendment Act of 1910, which werp tentatively issiieil by tlio Ward Government; and gave rise to a good dsal of discussion some two. years ago, were the subject of represen-' tatioiis made to tho Minister for Public . -Works (tho-Hon; W. Fraser) .yesterday by- a deputation from the ■"Wellington Tramways/Union. The Hon. H. D.'Bell attended as Minister for Internal Affairs, and Mr. 11. H. Blow, Uhder-Seorctary for i'ublic Works, was also present: Tho members of tho deputation were:. Messrs. W. C. Noot,' secretary of the union; A. J.' Mills, president; and A. 13. Bennett, vice- -_ president. • '"■' - Mr. Noot said that ther'depulntion had com'o not only as representing the Wellington''Tramways Union, but in response tP-'requests by t'ho various unions throughout tho ''Dominion. The object, of the deputation wa9 to ask the Minister ,to put the- Tramways Regulations into' cir'cula-' tion' at ■ his - earliest ; convenience/ The tramwaymen. of-tho Dominion had goneto considerable expense in. getting" the Tram-, ways Amendment Act; of 1910 placed 'on the Statute Book, and from time to time requests had been advanced, for. the issno of the regulations. In making these requests the- men were actuated by a desiro to safeguard the, public and to be placed in.a position, to.,carry out, their duties, in ia proper, and efficient manner. Some nine months previously tho Minister' had, promised a deputation that he would look into the matter of issuing the regulations:. It was .-no; doubt on account of press of, business, that; he had not yet given effect to his promise. , Mr. Noot .went .oh! to remark that'on the Brooklyn section in . Wellington ' some'unpleasantness hod been caused. Conductors, anxious "to'carry out their duties and also to pleaso tlio,public, had been compelled.to : eject .some'passengers from the cars., After ,tho Brooklyn accident, Mr. .Noot coutinuetV the conductors ivere warned Upt -they wpiild, bo instantly dismissed if thoy allowed : more. than. the.right number of people ta travel in the Brooklyn cars. Tho Minister would understand that both tho' men and the management wero placed; in a' difficult position. . The Brooklyn Section. Mr. Eraser: I suppose you know in renurd to Brooklyn that I have-fixed'that ' '"P? , ". . ■'' ' ■ Mr." Noot : The regulation is not gazet- ■ led yet Mr. l :, raser said that it. had not been dont> by reguW>on, but by a letter. T'ho .decision arrived at had been imperfectly reported in tho press. What had been decided'was that in tho case, of palace ears ten people should bo alloyed to travel in' each' compartment; whether they sat or stood. In'.'tlio, case of.any other-car the sealing accommodation .Vftuld' bo the limit. .': - • • 1 .-; •- ■

'Air. Noot said, tli-afc ho had.understood from the'papers that ! two. strap-hangers would be permitted in each compartment. , Jlr. Frascr: They never got that front me. .Ho added that the Governinentwould , go "tio, further in the matter, ■petuling-thfr' proposed .duplication of ~tho Brooklyn line;/ \ J- v 1:' • An Auckland Mr.'NooV'.nexl: saul that'ho'ilnderstood that, the. Minister '.kid' received''4'" letter' from Mr. Parr. Mayor of Auckland, asking for i', restoration of municipal, control of tramways in that city. By request.of (he Auckland Tram-trays Union, which ' f'OS much " opposed to ' the" ]>rbposal, the deputation wished to point ' out-that-i (ho Auckland City-Council was* asking'' for .iaii' amendment "of the 'Act;in■ Woffle" directions. Some years ago, Mr. Noot' continued. the Auckland City'Coui'icil did control Iho cars, ;and-.-matt6r?"got into ■ such a state under their control that the in en practically held up tho cars. ■ Ono of the first men to appear and to'fined (fur refusing to leave a car when, reflected) .was Mr. L. J. Basrnall, the 7 then • • Mic-or of. Auckland, and the.second-was a Mr. Jmnieson. J.P. Ti:.;> members. of the Auckland Union, the .Wellington Union, and others were not .prepared-to look for justice to men'who'might be interested in the private companies -that were running the cars.' They,'would-ask" the Minister not ito amend' tie Act-sd'as to give the Auckland City Council control of, traffic again. They believed that, in thekinds of the Government, when the regulations had Wen printed nnd circulated, the " tramway systems .throughout' ths Dominion would' 'work harmoniously, hut. until the various people* concerned had ilie Testations' before them it was' impossible! to cawy 'onV- Tlie men wanted to see the regulations in order that they might'know-where tliey were standing, and it was also desirable in ; the.'interests of the public-that .the regulations should be printed!'and circulated. ,'. More About Brooklyn. i' Mr.'.A..J!. Mills, president,of .the.Wel-' lington Union, rai:sed- a'point in regard, to the.new regulations control-, ling traffic on' the Brooklyn line. It was, distinctly laid down,' he ; said, that-two children should count asone adult.- - Mr: Fraser: Two children paying'half fares.- ;-■■■'• ••'. ■ • -r-v. .Mr. Mills: On the Brooklyn line there are ho ihalf-farcs, bccause it is only one section. Mr. fraser: Where a child pays full fare-it nvjll count. as one person. , Mr. Mills: That is the point that the publicwi]l',work on. [If they ! see a. child in a car they will say: "That is. a child,_ and another passenger, can get in." • .Mr.; Bell said that the weight .of the children,'rather-than their age, should determine the-matter. After some further.discussion Mr.' Fraser promised to consult with;Mr/:Morton, '(chairman of the WiUin'gttiii.'.Tramway; Board), nud have the. point in-regard-to children definitely cleared up. Mr.;M.ilis: YouvKayei.4o- ; iflW-fcsw the: public- will work on a conductor if they gel: the chance.. . N - Mr.'A. E. Bennett. . vice-pr.esident. of tho union. nUo supported tte-request ofthe deputation.

!MR. FRASER.IN: REPLY,; - REGULATIONS NOT YEl' READY.' Tho Minister, in his reply, said that the-regulations were not drawn up by the present Government nt all. ' It was apparent", however, that in' being issued they had given rise to some dissatisfaction because a "conference had been-held to consider them. No report from that conference had come before him.Mr. 'Noot: We understood that-the regulations were adoptcfl'.bJ'.'thirHtmSe, add' came rknvii'from tho Hoiiic iu November, 1911. Mr. Bloiv: They have never been before 'the House. Mr.iFiuser (to .Mr. Noot): "Whoever, told yon that misinformed you. , Tho regulations are not in force, 'and '.nbve'r. have been in force. They were submitted to a conference, and-certain amendments were made,. but no Toport from"; Uhat conference came befor6 mo, and tho matter dropped. That was tho position when .1 came into office, and naturally I shall -not tako upon - myself to promulgate regulations which,.have been, tho subject of a conferenco until ' I know something more about them, I quite-ad-mit that there should bo regulations; I' 1 can. seo the necessity for it .to give effect to the. Act." '• ,' As to tho other subject raised by the deputation, Ihe Minister said that he had received a letter from tho Auckland'.C'ity; Council, and understood that representatives of that body intended to come-arid interview him. He ' must hear both sides beforo coining to a conclusion, and lie would certainly, extend ;.to the Auckr land City Council the sa'mo privilege as he had extended to tho deputation beforo him. After hearing both sides,, be wouljl cdtiio to a definite.decision. Mr. .Noot': It j'nir is asking for an,amendment-to-the Act, whereas tho employees were much gratified at the present Act being placod on the-Statute Book. Mr. Fraser: I am going to hear'iboth sides b'cfnre coming to a decision. __ I, am put: pledging myself In'lake any parficu" j jv vifw. T must put some weight' upon lac uf.Ti'stions of this conference.becauso

I "presume that it was a conference of people interested in ■ the matter from both sides., Ido think- that tho regula-tion^-slioultfbe'issued as soon as possible, because tho present position is unsatisfactory,; •; Mr,' Bell on Local Control. Tto Hon.' H. D. Bell at this stage addressed'a'question to Mr. Noot. "I want to .know," said tho Minister—"l am the Minister, in,charge of local government, you know I ,' Mr. Eraser is. in charge of tho administration of these regulations— I waiit to, know why you object to' local control. ;Why,. for. instance, should not Wellington.control tho cleanliness of tho cars, why tho. city grant licenses and , get tho fees ?, Let us ,put aside Auckland altogether?" . ; Mr. Nop)::,,Wo'have always.been advocates of local -government, but the cases are-liot'.identiial. In Auokland the trams are owned by a private company. . S" Mr. Bell: Ilolnot let us get away from the -point. I am Minister -in charge -of local government. You follow that? Remember .tliat point of view/ I want to support control by local authorities of local concerns—the management of tliat which runs Upon their own 'streets. Never mind the private company. ' Why should not the right be granted in Wellington? V - ' ■ Mr. Noot:. It; is right in Wellington, where tho municipality is running the cars. In Auckland a private company owns tho cars, and it is possible for. city councillors to bo interested-in a private company. :'

Mr--Bell: \ou.agree with me that there should'be local control of the streets, but you make an exception that if thero is danger of members of the local authority beihg'interested in a private concern that then tho provision should be different. But you must remember, Mr. Noot, this Act;re!ates to all tramways; the question of licensing, the question of whether a car is clean, is determined by a Government officer, and 1 not by a municipal officer. Tlio fees go to. the Government; and-not to the "local authority. Do yon think this should continue in the case of Wellington ? ' Mr. Noot : Most decidedly. That is getting away from the point again. Mr! jßellNo, I am right on the point, Mr. _Nc,ot. . I am not touching your exception at"all. I am concerned' with the question of whether the control of local tramways should be as at present in .the luiadsof the' Government or be transferred to local authorities, with or without exception. You say it ought to remain in tho hands., of,the Government even i'p Wellington,'because of. the danger in Auckland., y Mr. Noot:-Wo are prepared to stand by tho Act." . ■ Mr. Bell: Wo have to consider whether local control, should not be restored. I am-in. favour of local control I want to jrtve_ Mr. M'Laren and his council here, for instance, control of the trainways, subject to reservations in the case of matters which milst be controlled by the Government. ■ Tho local body should liavS'frtll power to decide whether a car is clean,enough to travel upon the Wellington' strtet-sv- At' present; this is a matter for the Government. I want you to consider it and let me know what you think about : the 'casß of Wellington alone, Mr. Noot said that he would have much pleasure in. doing so. The Regulations—Possible Alterations. , Mr. Noot next asked Mr. Fraser whether he could say "definitely when'the regulations would bn printed and circulated. • Mr. Fraser: No. I can't just now. I am gSiug' away on a trip to the West Coast that will, take up two or three weeks. Besides. T'waht to hear what the other people -have to say. - ' •Mr. Noot:-Do you intend to call a conference of; all k ..concerned ? ' . Mr. Fraser:' I liavo not yet had time .to look into the proceedings of the last conference. . ." . I hope to have the whole ..thingi .fixed up before the House meets. There niay be .somo of the regulations whieliri.'TOuld hot approve, of,-and ill that ;T;would alter them. Tho regulations must, of course, bo in! conformity with the 'Act. • , To a question, Mr. Fraser said that if any.vital,alteration were proposed,, he would.'give.'.the union a chance to make His own feeling was that if any alteration of importance wero ■ to bo.made it should bo.mado in the Act.