TRADE AND LABOUR PROBLEMS.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1692, 7 March 1913, Page 3

TRADE AND LABOUR PROBLEMS.

—. —$ THE ROYAL COMMISSION. OUR POPULATION. OPINIONS OF MR. TREGEAR. KEEN QUESTIONS & COMMENTS. THE SHORTAGE OF WORKERS. The Trade of Empire Commission continuedl its sittings in- Wellington yesterday. Sir Edgar Vincent presided.

The first witnesses called were representatives of the Harbour Boarfl.

Mr. A. W. Marchbanks, engineer to the Harbour Board, explained to the Commission the works the board had in hand, especially tbose works which would ultimately provide increased accommodation for deep-draught vessels. When the works in hand and contemplated were completed the biggest vessels now afloat—those of, say, 1000 feet in length and .40 feet draught—could be accommodated comfortably. Harbour Board Finance. Mr. H. E. Nicholls, secretary to the board, explained the financial position of the board. The present debt of the board .was .£832,000, raised at rates varying from !i to 4 'per cent. The sinking fund by law established was now .£137,000. ' By the operation of the redemption scheme the present loan would be automatically extinguished in 191 G. The finances of the harbour were in a very satisfactory position, for the balance of assets over liabilities as shown by the last balancesheet was .£487,809. The board had considerably endeavoured to follow a progressive but prudent policy. The dues had been kept as low as was possible,and ho ventured to say that, the rates charged were cheaper, hiving regard to the services rendered, than in any other port in New Zealand. All the work of the port was done by tho board, with the sole exception of the stowing of cargo in the ships' holds, and the charge made was an inclusive charge. . To Sir Rider Haggard: The volume of shipping was increasing very rapidly in the port of Wellington, and he quoted figures from the board's year-book in support of tlig statement. He regarded tho position as entirely satisfactory. * To Mr. Bowriug: The total expenditure of the board on harbour, works had been .£3,149,000. The revenue on ifchat last year had been .£215,000. ; Mr. Luke's Anticipations. Mr. J. P. Luke redd a statement in which ho urged at somo length that the various mineral deposits, especially the iron deposits, oughlt to be exploited and developed. To Sir Eider Haggard In spite of tho opinion held, by some experts that there was no likelihood of more large deposits of coal being discovered, lie thought that more large fields would ultimately bo discovered. Sir Kider Haggard : Are you a geologist? Jlr- Luke: NoThen it is erroneous to say that tho coal resources are limited?— Yes. You say that as one with knowledge?— I say it as a man of common-sense. Mr. Luke further said he had great confidence in the extent of the mineral oil as well as the coal resources. To Mr. T. Garnet Jlr. Luko said tho rescources existed and would warrant a largo number of people to work them. Mr. Lorimer: Y'qu are not a geologist? Jlr- Luke: No.A

You only sneak from what you have heard?—T liavi been lieve forty years, ami liavo been about a. bit. ; 1 know that a .London syndicate, which 'proposed to .wprlc the iron' ore . desposite,"'was turned; down' by Parliament last 'session.

'To Mr. Garnett: It'would necessitate a considerable increase of population ito run all the industries h? hnd mentioned. To Mr. Lcrimer: He 'deprecatcd [the exporting of any considerable nuauiities of ore out of the country. would be letter to manufacture the pig-iron here, lie t.heiifrht p. market could be found for it,.possibly in South America, and did not think it would !:<< "outrageous nonsense" (as Mr. T.orimcr had suggested) to erect bi<r blast furnace's for itlis limited market which would he opened to the product.

Board of Trade. Mr. Luke went on to refer to the Board of Trade, reading a resolution which he had brought forward in the Industrial Association, in which he urged, 'that tho Board of Trade should be remodelled, "on Imperial lines," and that there should be appointed to it representatives of the overseas Dominions. / He suggested that the High Commissiftncrs appointed by the various Dominions could act on the Board of Trade. Sir Alfred Bateman, however, explained that the Board of Trade had not met for a hundred years, and he assured Mr. Luke that the working Board of Trade was advised by a committee which had on it representatives of the oversea dominions. Mr. Luko alleged that our shipping laws-were superior to those at Home in that they provided for greater safety, for people travelling as passengers. He stated further that under our shipping laws the Titanic disaster could not have happened. - Under examination by Mr. Garnett he said that he could not state facts which would go to show that there was greater safety under the New Zealand shipping laws than there was under the English laws. . Factory Workers Needed. Mr. H. F. Allen, secretary of the Industrial Association, also read a short "statement. He referred mainly to the shortage of labour in New Zealand, .which shortage was retarding the development of our industries.

, Uflder examination ho admitted that enough was not boing done to induce people to como to New Zealand. If it were impossible (as ho was informed by Commissioners) to obtain good operatives from England, where they were now fully employed, he thought it would be advisable to introduce jfoung people who might bo trained in New Zealand methods. A larger supply of workers would not necessitate a margin of. unemployed workers, but it might do. away with tho necessity for overtime at high rates of pay. The population was increasing at the rate of 2J per cent, per annum, and he did not consider this a satisfactory increase. . Mr. E. G. Pilcher, coal merchant, spoke of the importation of Australian coal. He said that tho reason for importing Newcastle coal was that it was harder and less friable than New Zealand coals, and it was being largely used in the manufacture of gas. It was ]»ssible also that the production of some ot the mines had been reduced because of the shortage of workers -in. tho mines. 1 Mr. Tregear on Labour Shortage, Mr. Edward Tregear drew further attention to the memorandum which ho had already submitted to tho Commission secretary. lie pointed out again that although New Zealand was now solely an agricultural country, it might not always remain so. There was a great deal of water-power going to waste, especially in the South Island, and he hoped that one day this power would bo harnessed, as were tho streams in Switzerland, and the country would be the manufacturing centre of the Southern Seas.

To llr. Sinclair: Ho bolievcd that there was a shortage of labour in the agricultural industry, but ho was not prepared to believe that there wits such a shortage of labour in other industries as was generally pleaded by (he employers. It was true that there was a distinct shortage of young labour 'in Now Zealand; this ho attributed in very great part to the reduced birth-rate. There wore simply not enough young nativo born in the country to do the work which required to be done. There was also the fact thai the country was very prosperous, anil while that was so the children of .working men were not sent lo work of such an early age. He did not object to tho importation of agricultural workers, nor did the labour unions so far as lie knew. Hut the labour union* did object to skilled labour being brought from, abroad,

Personally, he admitted that with our industries expanding as they were, and with our low birth-rate, wo must import young workers, but this must be done very warily. Margin of Labour. To Sir Alfred'Bateman: He thought New Zealand, with the advantage of unlimited water-power, would be able to manufacture in competition with any other countries. They might even manufacture textiles and "metal products for export. Our wages were much higher than they were in the older countries, but later he hoped wages in the older countries would rise. He did not admit that a margin of labour was desirable to permit of the extension of industries. Sir ' Alfred Batenum: Then you don't believe in a margin? Jtr. Tregear: No. Sir Alfred Bateman: If there is to be a margin, you would rather that it remained in the Old Country to 1» available for you to send for? No answer. To llr. Larimer: Ho could not say how the horse-power now running to waste in the rivers could be applied, but he had no doubt that there were sufficient brains in the British race to apply that horsepower profitably. Mr. Lorimcr asked what natural resources New Zealand could exploit to make use of their water power. . : Mr. Tregear argued that Great Britain had no exceptional natural resources, and that it imported most of its raw materials. Mr. Lorimer pointed out that 'to bring about such e. manufacturing system as there was in Britain cheap materials and cheap food were essentials, and this meant cheap wages. Would New Zealand be prepared to see wages reduced ? Mr. Tregear: We are not going to rest under present coonomic conditions. The world will change every hour. Mr. Lorimer did not-go on to discuss this auestion. . Immigration. To Sir Eider Haggard: He thought' population should not be introduced, except wifth caution, lest the prejudices or the fears—natural fears—of tho working classes should be aroused.

Sir Rider Haggard: Arc there not other considerations involved—questions of national safety and defence? Mr. Tregear said this question pressed on Australia with its' large unoccupied territories more than upon New Zealand. Sir Rider Haggard: Don't you think this-'matter of immigration is so important that it transcends all questions like the prejudices of the workers? Jlr. Tregear: I would say yes, for the simple reason that if we don't bring in peoplo I don't see how New Zealand is to go on. Jlr. Garnett: Yon liavo a population of a million, here. Do you seriously ask us to believe that in these new lands, with all tho advantages of soil and climate that- wo have heard of, tho conditions of a million people will bo seriously affeclted by an increase of population? Do you ask.us to believe that? Mr. Tregear: Yes. Mr. Garnctt: You think it will 1m a mischief if the population of New Zealand grows to the size—we shall not say of Great Britain—let us say of Ireland? You have only a fourth of tho population of Ireland. Do you think- that if your population approached that of Ireland it would be an evil?

Mr. Tregear-: If our population lived under conditions such, as thoso under which people live in Ireland, I would say it would be a very great mischief. Jlr. Garnctt: Am I' to conclude that the conditions of soil and climate are such tint it won't accommodate any moro peonle? Jlr. Tregear: I should be very sorry to think that.

Mr. Garnett: If the account you give is correct as. to the productivity of your country, and its potentialities—has it ever struck you that this is not a very great advertisement of your country?

Ml',. Tregeai; repeated that lie did not want to see' a surplus working population suddenly landed in New Zealand. Air. Garnett: 1 am not talking about the dumping down, of three million people in your country, but of a natural growth of population. Arc you still of opinion that there is not room for a vast population still to live under conditions that are not found anywhere, in Europe? Are you ; of'opinion'that you cannot increase that population and still have those conditions? Mr. Tregear: Yes, I am of that opinion. Agricultural Population. Mr. Garnett: Does this apply to agricultural population? Mr. Tregear: Oh, you are speaking of agricultural population. , But how are you going to settle the land? You can't do it under present conditions. I am not iu favour of bringing iu a peasant population to work ns the servants of those now on the land, and if the new people ■are to become farmers themselves they must have freer access to the soil than they. have now. He would welcome a population going on the land. Mr. Harnett: Is there anything much more likely to'create a demand for . your manufactures than to increase your population? Mr. Tregear: Yes, 011 the land, but not a population of serfs tilling the land for other people. Mr. Garnett: Then there is room for people in New Zealand? Mr. Tregear: Yes, under certain conditions, but I say tliey must bo brought •warily, because conditions do not exist under which they could be brought now. AVe must have the land settled. Some of the lands now are in the hands of Maoris, and some in the hands of private persons. Any population brought in now can't get land under present conditions. Mr. Garnett: AVith regard to increase of j'our manufactures, how are you going to bring it abo Hit in tho absence of a margin of unemployed labour ? Has it ever struck you that it is not very likely that anyone will build factories and fill them with machinery unless there are people forthcoming to work that machinery and plant? Mr. Tregear: I don't contemplate any such thing. If a man wants 1000 men he should have 1000 men, but I don't think ho should also have 500 others waiting outside. . , , . . Sir Edgar Vincent: Am I right in inferring that what you say represents tho view of the working classes? . Mri Tregear: All except tho remarks I made concerning tho birth-rate, which are entirely my own. They fear the introduction of cheap labour. So strong is this feeling that there is practically no colour feeling hero. They don't object to

Chinese except on the ground that they i may reduce wages. I Income Tax. Mr. J. SI. King, Commissioner of Taxes,' explained tho law under whicli income tax was levied on British manufacturers tradins in New Zealand through agents. Manufacturers who made profits in Now Zealand on business ..done liero were required to pay income tax on those profits. The agent also must pay income tax on his income, hut that was another matter. Statements by Mr. Mabin and Mr. D. J. Nathan regarding the financial position of New Zealand will bo found in another Xiart of this issue. The Commission resumes at 11 a.m. today. Tho members of the .-Commission will not go to Packakariki as was arranged by the Chamb&r of Commerce. Instead of tin's they are going to the Wereroa State Parm, at tho invitation of tho Prim© Minister. . • ' In tho morning, before the sitting, the members of tho Commission were.shown tho harbour works of tho port by the chairman of tho board (Mr. R. Pleteher), and later they were taken for' •a\ short cruise in a, launch round the harbour.