DISESTABLISHMENT.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1668, 7 February 1913, Page 5

DISESTABLISHMENT.

: "'■♦''!_ ' ■■ ; WELSH BILL READ THIRD TIME. IRISH SUPPORT. By Telegraph-Press ' London, February 5, On the division on the amendment to the Welsh Church Disestablishment Bill -to leave all the glebe lands to the Church, { which was defeated ty! 248 votes to 220, i Mr. W. G. Gladstone,: Sir Edward,Beauchamp, and Mr. William Pearce voted against the Government.' A dozen Liberals abstained from' voting. Sixty- Na- i tionalists voted with tho Govemment..An urgent whip has been sent to absent ! Nationalists. ! Speeches by Mr. Bonar Law, Leader of' " the Opposition/and Mr. E.' M'Kenna, ' Homo Secretary, wound up the debate on the Bill. . ! MrJ A. Lytteltdn's motion to reject the ' Bill waa defeated by 342 votes to 240. The Bill 'was then read a third time. .' ;-;;. (E<6. February 6, 11.5 p.m.) .'-.,•. i London, February 6. Mr. Lloyd George made a reasoned defence of the Bill on historical grounds.' ! >' Mr. John Dillon (Nationalist) said Ire- j land was proud to. repay the debt she : owed to Wales's steady support of Home ' ,-Eule. ... ■•: • ■ ■'■'- •.,'.'. : . Sir David Brymor Jones 6aid the Welsh were very grateful to their Irish friends. ' s After the taking of the division, Mr. John Williams, Labour member, for Gower.'sang "Land of Our Fathers," and the Welsh members: crowded into the lobby, joining in. The Welsh Church Billdebate has been full of bitterness since the disendowment clauses were reached In committee. The feeling _among Liberal Churchmen and 'many English Nonconformists is very different from that of the Welsh Radicals. English Liberals are said undoubtedly to favour leaving everything to the Church, including glebes, but except tithes. Mr. ..France, a Wesleyan Liberal, who represents a Yorkshire constituency, moved an amendment to Clause 4 with this object-in December. He argued.that of the .£173,000 a year to be taken from the .Church, .£120,000 is tithe: "the only sum between 113 Young Mr. Gladstone, the Grand Old Man's grandson; seconded with a persuasive appeal for, peace by, settlement. Mr. M'Kenna brusquely repelled tho amendment, on tho around 'that neither side would accept it.' Mr. LloydGeorge, however, seemed to suggest that, if the Opposition had, done soj-'as a compromise,, the Government might amend their >Bill. Great' personal pressure Was put upon Liberal members by the- Wliips, .but the amendment was defeated by only--50—265 to 215. Eleven Liberals; including ■the tellers, voted against the Government, many abstained, and the Government was only saved by-73 Nationalist votes. Liberal . newspapers at' once recognised the significance of this division, and urged upon Welshmen the necessity of consenting to two concessions upon Clause 8, the clause which actually .does tho disendowing. .There was lobbying and peaceful persuasion throughout the following days,] but the Welsh remained obdurate,/ openly) expressing their disgust a few,days later| when the concessions were hinted at upon another clause. ,-- ..:•.■•