PRIME MINISTER AND FEDERATION.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1663, 1 February 1913, Page 6

PRIME MINISTER AND FEDERATION.

A LABOUR DEPUTATION. • MR. MASSEY SPEAKS OUT. \ THE RECENT WAIHI TROUBLE. PROPOSED LEGISLATION. Tho Hon. \V. F. Massey, Prime Minister, and Minister for Labour, received a deputation yesterday'from the conference . lately convened by the ' Federation • of Labour. Tho deputation included ropre- . eentatives of. the federation of Labour and of the United Labour Party. Its - members included Messrs. E. Semple, W. ■ Parry, P. Hickey,' E. Tregear,. W. T. ; Mills, W. T. Young,- and W. C. Noot. Tho proceedings Jafied'for "an hour and . three-quarters. . The members of the de- > putation spent an hour' and a half :in: 'stating their case, and the Prima Ministor spent a quarter of an hour in.reply- •' ing. : v Mr. Tregear, who introducodtho deputation, said that- it represented tho trades •v';: union congress which met recently .in .Wellington. '■ ■ , Mr. Massey: You'use tho term '-'trades .anion congress." Is that,correct?. . Mr. Tregear: I think so, .altogether. ■; . Mr. 1 Massey:, Do'l, understand that the .. -deputation, is. speaking c for. the trades unions of Now Zealand? • . . . . Mr. Tregear: Yes,,l' think. 60,- '■ ; , Mr. Massey: That is for.you ito'.say. \ . Mr.'Tregear: "They ore speaking, for tho trades unions of New. Zealand." He. went on to remark • that tho Arbitration Act in its original form.showed a'-respect:-for the liberty:of the subject.,'. It was never intended-to introduce the compul- . sory arbitration that existed in sAmerica. It was industrial legislation based upon . the idea that'a' union would be able to

some tinder the Act or 'stay outside if it ; considered'that the benefits.to be- obtain; ed under arbitration-were; not equal to; those tp_ lie, obtained in, the free market. ■ .To meri -who, like himsolf, were friends of > arbitration; .there.seemed ft great danger# that the usefulness of the Act'might .bo destroyed! v The danger bad. appeared particularly , at, Waihi, • and : at.. Huntly; . . and' there seemed-a' i'isk that;it might spread. A-largo uniohi after cancelling' ■ : ita registration, ,had found it jras. ■ not iat liberty to 6tay outsido . the ' Act because o ' small//- body of men, possibly'"hostile 1 ,to-; |:.the - ;■ majority of workers engaged .in a'trade,:' ..might get an award not: at all in', tho ' •interests'of the workers, which, nevertheless, would bind'every worker in the in- < • dustrial district. 'At Huntly, not only v ~had a>union of this kind been -formed under tie Arbitration Act,' but members of the old union were'not allowed' to join • . -.the new union.' Mr. . Tregear also objected to the admission of honorary memj dots .to aVunion. -Finally.,ho asked l the speakers appointed by the deputation to' ' bring'before the' Prime Minister .resolu- ■< tions passed*by' the recent .conference.

• The Walhl Struggle, ' . /rtie first speaker was Mr. E.Semple, organiser of the Federation of Labour. He said that it was held by. the Government . . that ;the Waihi/struggle i.'was,'merely, a' •.■;• quarrel' between 1 two-sections, of workers, ,r and that the enaployers had not been behind the situation at all. Later develop- ,. ments had ,made it clear that- the em- . ploying'class, with, the -assistanco of the •liovernment.' .had'succecided iii Bmashing- , tho organisation of-the-workers.' \ Mr.jlassey: I may just as well contra- .■ diet that; statement. The employing class ■ had nothing to do with .it. The Govern; ment were called upon to. enforce > law, ; and order,- and: did so. They would, do tho same to-morrow. , Mr. Hickey, ,a member-of the deputation, made soma interjection... • Mr, Massey : I don't want- any interjeclions, please! •. , . • .. Mr. Semple repeated ' that the employ- ' -, ing class jfiad smashed the workers or- / gamsatiori at Waihi, • ■ : ' Mr. ■ Massey: I give that statement an ; unqualified denial] , , ' Mr. Semple went on to describe in detail recent hagpenings at Huntly. He assert- . Ed that the meetings which must legally ; be'held prior to the formation of a union 'had' not been held at, Huntly, and added that tho federation had befcn refused ac:'::ces3. to ( the list of names of the fifteen • / personsVio': had formed tho new union, lie went on to state, that the members • of tho miners'executive were discharged • because,;,the men took one day off. ' The ( . - federation advised ,fhe.:men to go. back' /to.work) and they did so,.notwithstanding > that twelvO'men had been victimised. ' A v amall union, was formed, and two men 'who were not in the:employ of tho, com- >>'. yany, and had never beerf in: a coal mine ;Sin 'their lives, .)ver?' appointed to meet the ~, employers , in conference : at Auckland., An. agreement! was" arrived , at though , tho : .• • great majority of the men working in the mino hkid hot been: consulted. The Gov; eminent fienta train with 80 constables to Huntly on c. Sunday,' though the. miners ■ were perfectly peaceful. ' Mr. Massey said that he sras not sure V - of the exact number of constables sent, but they were sent'at tho : request of the citizens of Huntly, who appealed to the Government for protection. Mr. Semple i Can you produce that re-' Quest? ./'■■' , ■/ Mr. Massey said that'ho could.. Mr. Semple: Protection against what? . --.Mr. . Massoy :; Against possibilities of flolonco. 1 '- . i ■!". Mr..Semplo declared..that-no/./act of ■ violence could''be proved against the / Hnntly' The police, ho asserted/ &ad been sent for the -purpose of coercing tho mineri, .Iwt.-the'sorgeant " in: charge . ,' was, happily, a :humanitarian—'''a kind kind of man','—and-a 1 repetition of tho scenes that had at Waihi'was avoided. Men .'holding viows hostilo- to ■ thoso of the employers at Jluntly had for ; ..' that reason, been'excluded from tlib new" •■Union. Twenty-nino'men who were in ; every way a credit to tho country had ■been .refused admission to the union.' Those were the methods, backed up by the .Government, ' by which industrial organisation was being crucified in this country.' . ; !' - -~ Mr."Massey: I want to know" whether you and Mr. Mills and Mr. Triigear and . tho others, represent the trades unions of this country, or whether you have any Tight to do so. ; . .. It whs explained that Mr. Semple reSesented tho Federation of Labour; that r. Mills did not, and that the deputation / . as a whole represented the conference re- ' cently convened by tho Federation of Lalx>ur. ■ . 1 . ' ■ ;■ r\' Mr. Massey: Now we know where, wo ire. •. ,-, | y Mr. Semplo'Said that tho conference had been attended "by resresentatives , of '40,000 trades unipnist'9 in; tin's country. They found themselves in this position: that a majority of workers had no right : to have a voice in managing the business : of their organisations, and. that a minority was allowed by law to coerco the majority. ' v' : * .--. Mr.;Massey: Do. yon say that the Govejnment was wrong in administering the , law as it sto^l?. .1 Mr. Semple: Tho law was not administered fairly. ~ : A Staterrisnt Contradicted. Mr. Massey: Then you say the Government was to blame? , ,- . Mr. Semplo: I do. / \ Mr. Massoy: Then' I must again con- ' tradict you. . ■ . Mr. Semple: You made the statement that - tho employers were not behind the '-.^mashing-of tho Waihi strike. I could produce abundant evidenco to prove that tho employing class— r ~. ... Mr. Massey: "It doesn't matter what ri fay you have, Mr. Semplo. I Ijavc my possession a request from. a trades union organisation in Waihi asking mo for protection.". Other similar requests, jin added, carne from prominent business men in Waihi, sopio of them; connected with the trades union movement and from tho Waihi citizens. Tho sgnntures of theso documents' wero perfectly genuine. ' ■ Mr. Semnlo said that they wanted the law. amended so that a majority would havo tho right to control their business nlTnirf in industrial .organisation. Fifteen men aliould not havo power to control

the industrial destinies of four or fivo thousand. That clause was pointed out to you four or fivo months ago. Mr. Massey. That is so. Parliament will have an opportunity of considering the wholo position of tho Arbitration Act next'session. ' Mr. Semple 6aid that the lato conference had unanimously decided that this legal provision ,vv*as directly opposed to the interests of workers, in tho Dominion. One hundred delegates had attended- tho late conference. lie would guarantee that thoro would bo two hundred delegates at the conference to bo' held six months hence. ■ Tho Government had promised a square deal. < Mr. Massey: Yes, and I want a square deal from reasonable men. Mr. Semple said that tho-workers had got more bumns from this Government than during tho past fifty years. Tho Wiylii men had been crucified and cowed— Mr. Massey: I can't allow that. We are responsible to tho people of this country for what took place at Waihi, and_ if you and your friends aoted at Waihi or any other place in a similar way you would bo treated in exactly the . same way . again. Mr. Semple: You can't provo that we over broko tho law at Waihi. You ore charging me and my friends with something that we did not do. " t A Disgrace <o Civilisation." Mr. Massey: I say that tho doings and sayings at Waihi were a disgrace to civilisation, and such as no respectable or patriotic men could approve. Deputationists: Hear, near! By the police! . Mr. Semple said that the federation had asked for a commission of inquiry, into what had happened at Waihi. He added that, personally, he was dead against the Arbitration ActMr. Massey: I want'.to know whether the deputation agreb with you in the opinion that you express, that you are dead against thq Arbitration Act?, Mr. Semple and other deputationists: No!. No! . ' ; At this stage a resolution of the Tecent conference was read, asking that the law should be' aihended to provide that where a union hod cancelled its registration, n<? new union should-be.registered, unless a majority of the members of the union which! had cancelled its registration had exprossed, by a secret ballot, their desire' to so register. ' .Mr. W. T.. Young spoke as one "who was not in tho federation." He contended' that'the law had not been administered impartially at Waihi. A Waihi miner had told nim that he was warned by two members cf 'tho "scab" union to leave' tho town. - - > j .' ' ■

Mr. Massey: You must not use that term' in this room. I am not going to have abusive terms used here. .«

Mr. Young,said; that the miner in question, was warned to leave the.town. The miner applied for police "protection, and a seTgeant of police told him: '"You can't get police protection. .You are only getting back some of what you have been giving." "£hat," said Mr. Young, "is how. the.law is being administered' at Waihi by your: Government." ■■■'■■-■ , . Mr. Young presented a resolution asking tho Government to make honorary membership of industrial unions illegal. He continued that thero was a bogus union at Huntly-— ; . , • ; Mr. Massey: How can it be' a bogus union if it is registered under the Arbitration Act?

Mr. Young:"lt is opposed to the interests of a majority of* men in the, industry. He went on to remark that a rule of the Huntly Union enabled it to admit anyone on payment of ss. He wanted to. know .by what authority the Labour Department had sanctioned' that rule. Under the rule a publican had been admitted to the union.

I Mr! Massey: There is.only, your 6tat©-, ment abo,ut the publican. ■ : Mr. Young: I<have seen the rule. I care nothing about the publican. I submit that the Department was absolutely wrong in : allowing that rule. It only goes to show again that yout Government is supporting the employers. Mr. Massey: I must contradict that statement, and, look here, I am not going to have any- reflections upon this Government, in I to tho : reprosentalJons maile by, of tho deputation,, but I am hot going to tako rellections on the Government. . Mr. Hickey: Can't wo make statements that wo believe to bo true? Mr. Massey: You can 'use arguments in support of your contentions, but I am. not going to allow you to use this deputation for party purposes. , Mr. Young: If speaking straight and speaking, the truth is speaking for: party purposes, I am speaking for party purposes: "i -. •' . •Mr. Massey: Then you are. The next resolution presented by Mr. Young asked the Government to so alter the.law that, a union should be enabled to initiate proceedings for cancellation by resolution passed at a special meeting. Another resolution was to tho effect that no union should be registered in a locality where a similar union already existed.- Tho adoption of the latter propos'J, he .contended, would prevent the recurrence of such happenings as had, occurred at Waihi and Huntly. The Government, he remarked, believed in the open-door policy,- so far as trades unionism was concerned. ■

A Declaration of Policy, ; Mr. Massey: We believe in the Arbitration Act, and wo are going to stand by it.'Mr. Yqnnff: You believe in letting any•one join a'workers'union ? _ , Mr. Massey: Are you asking for compulsory preference?, ilr. Young: No. ■ So far as we (the seamen) aro conoerned wo got it without the aid of your law. Mr. Young went on' to speak of the Lyttelton Eailway Workers Union as a close corporation, and asked that it should be. thrown open' so that any worker might join it. . The conference, he stated, had also suggested that it should be made compulsory on the part of an employer to insure his workmen;' Some employers , failed to do so, and on occasions injured workers had been unable to collect-compensation. If insurance were compulsory the liability would be on the' insurance company, ''The conference; -Mr. Young 'continued, had unanimously decided/to ask that the' Constitution' Act of New- Zealand should, be amended so as to enable the Dominion Parliament to enact any law 9 necessary to serve tho interests of persons ongagod in the* maritime or any other occupations in the Dominion. Mr. Massey: That is a pretty big order! Mr. Young: It is, and before very long the: workers of this country are going to give it effect. We are not going to be controlled in this country by the British capitalists or the British Shipowners' Federation. He complained that an amendment to the local Shipping and Seamen Act, dealing with the employment of Lascar crews had been kept so loner waiting for tho Koyal assent that it had lapsed. ! ', "The White Wings" Union, Mr. W. Parry said that if the law'had been amended as desired by the Federation the ■ altercation ,at Huiitly would have , been avoided. He added that he had seen a telegram from Mr. -Massey to the secretary of the."White Wings" Union at Huntly saying that it would be registered. Mr., Massey': You don't suggest that it was not in accordance with law? Mr. Parry: It was in accordance with law. I want to point out that at a conference ■ between the Federation of Labour and you agreed.that a defect existed in the law.-; Instead of repairing that defect, tho Government-assisted to form this union. I want to know as a citizen what the Government are going to do towards restoring to their homes tho men who have been driven from Huntly and Waihi. Mr. Parry said that he could not find any justification for the attitude the Government had taken up at Waihi. He was prepared to 6ay that if the police were to do used to assist people who formed bogus unions, ho was going to flght "with .the organisation of this country," and would join with his fellows in defendin? their homes and their property.- ■ Mr. Massey: I think wo have discussed Wailu sufficiently. The police wero sent to Waihi on the apreal, I believe, of a largo majority of the" people of the place, who asked for protection against the mob that -was continunlly threatening them. We havo got tho langiingo that was used, and are quite prepared to put it before the public at any time. : The Government was quite justified, and did no moro than lt.o duty at Waihi.

Mr 'Parry stated that tho Federation could produce documentary evidence' to prove its cose against the police. The Federation was very anxious for an inquiry, nnd was preoared to nroro that its opoonente were nided and abetted by tho police. He continued that on® of tho

men who assisted to eject tho Federationists from the Miners' Union Hall convened a meeting on tho following afternoon for tho purposo of forming a branch of tho Keform League. Mr. Massey: I am very glad to h'car it I Mr.- Parry: It is rather significant anyhow. 'Mr. Massey: You don't object to that, do you ? Mr. Parry: I do, Mr. Massey: Why. Mr. Parry: Because the hall was token by the people who formed the league, and ran tho others out of town. Mr. Massey: Rather far-fetched! Who was the man ? Mr. Parry: Potter was the man. ' Mr. Massey: Nover heard of him. Mr. Parry said that Mr. M'Eobie, of tho Employers' Association, also took part in the formation of the Waihi Rciorm Leaguo. Mr. Eraser urged the Prime Minister to grant an inquiry into the occurrences at Waihi, and expressed.tho opinion that 6ome of tho most serious charges mado could be substantiated, though others possibly could not. Mr. P. Hickey brought a number of dotail proposals before the Prime Minister. One was that tho provision in the Coal Mines Act depriving a miner of the right to compensation if he left his place of employment without being directed to do so by a person in authority should bo deleted. Mr. Hickey cited a case of hardship which had occurred at Denniston, and- said that he did not think it was the intention of the Act to deprive a man of compensation if ho suffered injury when ho hod left his place in the mine for good and sufficient reason Mr. Massey: I don't think it is. Defence and Immigration. Mr. Hickey went on to stato that the conference had adopted a resolution objecting strenuously to a policy of wholesale immigration. Such a policy would benefit only a lew monopolists, and would flood the labour market, to the detriment .of most of the people in the country. Mr. t Hickey also, on benalf of the conierence, 'objected to the provision of' the Defence Act under whicn the wages of persons refusing to serve are. Eeized in payment of fines. ! Professor Mills said that tho Prime Minister had raised a question as to how t far 'the deputation was representative of the Labour movement of the Dominion. The deputation had only presented motions adopted by . unanimous agreement at the conference just held. His own vote and that of Mr. Trcgear had been cast for these motions, and this meant that they substantially represented tho opinions of tho wholo body of organised Labour in Now Zealand. There was no Labour movement organised voluntarily amongst workers that could bo counted upon to organise a counter deputation. Mr. W. C. Noot said that ho had always ben a consistent supporter of arbitration.' If the Government did not give heed to the requests made that 1 morning there would,bo industrial unrest for some time ,to come. Unless the law were amended as desired, unions now working loyally under the Arbitration Act would kick over the traces; The lato conference had been 4 attended by ardent arbitrationists. Their one common ground was tha't industrial democracy , should not be . treated as it had been at Waihi and Huntly. Mr. Massey: Do you'suggest that the majority should' be allowed to tyrannise over the minority? Mr. Noot. said that the true'fight was between the original union and tho capitalists. The union now registered under tho Arbitration Act at Waihi would not bfe received into tHe United Labour party, and did not possess the approbation of the arbitrationists of tho Dominion.

Depntationists: Hear, hear.. Never will be, either! 1 ■

Mr. Young said that the lato. conference* had passed no resolution opposing industrial conciliation and arbitration. t . ■