HOME RULE BILL.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1638, 3 January 1913, Page 5

HOME RULE BILL.

EXCLUSION OF ULSTER DBBATE IN THfi "NOT DEMOCRATIC." fly telogra.ph—PraM Association-Copyright • ' London, January 1. In the Houso of Commons,. Mr.'Hope's Amendment/to suspend./the Irish Executive iiijWaiv time .or hatidhal emergency was defeated by 288 votes to 151). The Attorney-General (Sir Eufns Isaacs) declared that dyery ligitiniaJo safeguard hnd been takon to protect Great Britain In war time. . - A VIGOROUS DEBATE. ULSTER EXCLUSION DEFEATED. , London, January 1. Sir Edward CarSon (Unionist member for Dublin University) moved Mb amendment to exclude Ulster from tho provisions of. the 8i11... He denied that he was making a compromise, but said , It WAS dangerous to drivo Ulster from tho existing Constitution . into 4 loathsome One, whioh it abhorred. n Mr. ASquith said tho amendment wbuld wrick tho Bill; Te excludo several Nationalist counties. waS not democratic., The Legislature colild not accopt the claim of a acetion of Ulster to. veto the Bill.

TAUNTS AND INTERRUPTIONS, : (Keo. January 2, 11.5 p.m.). • v London, January 2. Sir Edward Carson 6aid that tho men Of : Ulstiir claimed to stand where they werej olaimed that alio' had don© her be3t nndor. the Union, 1 and claimed to havo succeeded uiidcr It. It was for the : Government, if it could, to justify the turning out of Ulster, and he pressed the Government to say whether it contemplated the exorciso of force, They would never have dreamed of applying force to Natal if she-had refused to joinJ tho South African Union. He begged them toiremembcT thai no one could measure where tho forces of disorder would 6verfldw if let loose to find.their objective, ■ Mr. Asquith said that he was unable to speculate or ito lay down contingent policies.. Ho did ,not believe that when Ulster realised the tolid protection the Sill afforded te ithem they would do other than accept the Imperial decision. 'He asked that'if the Bill were submitted to the.electorate what then would bo the attitude of the Unionists?

r, Mr. Redmond said that he was not influenced by tho danger of a civil war. Reeling was as strong as .it was over tho 1669 Chtorch Act. Ho was prepared to go any. limit to. taeet tho Opposition, provided those wenS not inconsistent with the principles of,iattonal self-govornmont. . Mr. Bonar Law said that disaster would follow ; the . carrying Of, the Bill against Ulster's will. Th 6. Government, in the event of war, was gambling on ;the possibility of the; whole of tho Nationalist feeling it! Ireland changing. ■ The danger Would bo lessened if they had two subordinate Parliaments. He advocated ah amendment, making it permissive for any country to retartin outside the Parliament. He believed that tho loyalists would rather be mled by a foreign country than by tho Nationalists. If -.tho (xovernment wero to subnii^a he, personally, and lio believed ho epoKo for the .Opposition, - wtrahl. not AntGMage in any. form tJlster'd resistance! but if the Government' forOei. the Bill he - would .assist .Ulstorts:resistance,■■■■■/■■■ »Mr. Winston Churchill Bald thut JTr. Bonar Law had m'ade a surprising statement when he said that,the loyalists prefCrred foreign ralo. . ' ,

- rßir Edward Carsdn interjcotcdi 'itather thin bo' govorned by- Moonlighters", f Mr. Churchill: latest Tory threat would scoedo to,Germany!"< (Uj> roar.): Mr. Churchill, amid constant heated intarruption,: taunted Mr. Bonar low Upon his latest step m Imperial statecraft, and declared that no Oppositionist believed that such an amendment was workable. -It proposed to mete out to the ■Catholics of Ulster exactly tho same treatment which tho Opposition regarded ■ as cruel and unfair to Protestants elsewhere. Tho Unionist cry; "Veto by violence," was unjustified,. "Thift. ■ Bill ias to bop&ssod ttaca times," ho eaid, "aid loDy bofote the Irish Parliament can legislate Oppressively, will be tho 'general. election, when people will -have a.olear constitutional reniedy, ! without resort to the threats dad violonoe."'

Tho amendment was negatived by 294 to 197.