THE STATE ADVANCES INQUIRY.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1591, 7 November 1912, Page 5

THE STATE ADVANCES INQUIRY.

COMMJTTEE'S FINDING.

" BOARD ILI>Aj)YISBD."

A CHANGE IN PERSONNEL RECOMMENDED.

"The filial pha6o of tho iinjuiry by the, Ptiblio Accounts Cbniniitteo of the House >f Representatives into the' a(imini<sra;iou of 'tho State-Guaranteed Advaiicos, Department Under .past Government's was; reached last evening. at a quarter past nine-/ . When Sir. .J. B> Sine [chairman. of tho. PuMic, Accounts Dnnimittep) presented, tho following report to tlio House of Representatives:— "The Public Accounts _ Gqniihittee', which Was jlj'rceted 1 to iijqjui.re 'fully, 'i&to sill loans paid, ov applied l for, by proyisiphally or finally appi'bved for, .local -authorities under tho New Zealand State-Griaraii-teed Advances Act sin.ee its.iricep.tiou, aJid to report, ph.. tho losses, made- (if niiy) Since the Act carte into. operation; the ccniniitinehts, and the - availaplb means and unexhausted loan authorities as at March 31, 1912, and September 16* MS, also to rejjbrt on. the letter of tho Sivperiiir landeat ot the New. Zealand State-Guaran-teed Advances Bepartineht' of ■SeplxSnibcr 30, 1912, to.the Minister ; fbr liinance, has tho honour to report .as felid.ws:~" "(1) Tho loss'sustained by the Ijpeal Authorities Branch Of-State-Guaranteell' Advances ' Deiinrtiuent since, its inception up.to August 31, 1912, was between and .£23,000, arid, was incurred pwing— ..'•...' "(a) To the board's difficulty,in finding imjn.edi.ato rrivest.nieußs'' for. the fund? at credit of thft'.'ioans.. to Loc#l Authorities' Accountj anil . ■.■ "(b) Tp the .remission efl'Os.'per'cent, '-. allowed to the Ppp^.rtmerit.'-. being insufficient.tp'epver' : ex.perises ; and loss 'of. .interest whilst tho moneys • remained'uninvested. . '. '*. ■ "(2) The comhiitinehts ■' oh March "81, 1912, were,^B2o,32o{'and'the.-cOmmitmenta bn September 10, i9l2> *er.e. J051,316, ■ "(8) The- availa-blb/ 'means 'and ■ 'M&xhausted Iban authorities! at March.- ;31, 1912, were-Sis fellow.:-*-' " '.-''."' "Credits in.bant, 'etc'.,'JlC3;Gl3; : unexhausted'.loan £7^^^^^ "{i) The'available: !..nieins'. .and .-unox' hausted Ibai authorities at, Septembei IG,' 1912,. we're/as-fellow~ "" ', "Credits, at bank, etc;,, debits, ■.■eSOJOOO;".debits-.-exceeding-.credits,/ Je24stt; unexhausted: loan -authorities, $825,000 V : ' .'■ binding:. '• "In regard to. the.;, S.u'perinteri'dent'E lettfirj' written, on. 'behalf - of the Advances Board, alleging' ithftt' ' .stii'tehie'nts . Were ■made iij tlio. House- of Representatives bn September 28,1912, tothevelfect'that loans had been granted by' the '. boai-d. to. lofal authorities under .political.'influence,..'and with,, a view tp iriitueiQipiiig' the.; * general ■felectib'n of. last Deceinlieri. Np: .'evideflw was siibniitted substijutiating tW Superin. .Wnde^t's^nSti^,^to n ieftt, mittes :considor, tlrat the niehiber&nf the board 'w.6r0. : i.i1-adyisedl in .accepting, heftilines "in the "press, .'rep.erts:. .its', ■suffici'eni grounds for ■writing to. the .Minister: in Charge pf the' Advances, .Department: in 1 tho terms Used in the..letter, . Reconiirieiidati.Pni ■ ''The ejyidencp has. led .the.' committee to the conclusion: that'■i'ilsufEcipnJ; 'cohtr.oj •was. .exorcised in .the .loans to local au'thbrititej.especially!;,in., committing the l)ep.artm^b'-w^'fldjayces' , ~'th, years ahbad, aii ftc(ionVsV.hich;tlie:cnihihit tee. is .advised waV. contrary to.law,' "Tout opininitteo th6r,efdfo;'stfbhgly "recommends a change in/the' pbrspiipei of :the Advances Board> ' W'B.'HINE, "Chairman, "November ,:G f 1912," v REPORT DIS(JUSSEiJi .A HOSTILE AM|ND.MENT. ; : STATE GfUAEAMEED ADVANCES. . ' . BILL, '■'.■■.: '/ Mr; flinb moved that, the. report, with the minutes of eyideiicp. ,'aijd pro.ceedingE lip : upbi'i the. table and. be. printed, "■ ' ' The ]?rimo Minister suggested-that, the debate on the' committee's report,- 4ii<l that nn the.New Zealand-Stato'.ffuarans ,'teed Adta.uces '.Aniei\dMent BiU should: lie taken simultaneously, ■■' Mr. J. A.. Kannn (Inyercargill) .sdid. that he desired tii inbve' an ainendment; ,-aiid it was '..agreed' that he should 1 , do'-'so-:befbre the debate .was; ■4djbi(rne3i.'-?n: , l i6{3Si;.'iliat the. Aiyitnces. Bill-niight Be- 'int'rodn'cesl. Mr,' Ita.n.a'.n 'in : pyed.,thatl : fecbnHngn'datio.h.s...cchtained''- iii;\the : ' -obm? mitts.e's report be struck'.'out, aiid the f 6\Ipwing substituted in-,.'.:■:.. " .'.; : ''- : ■■■;.'.' "Th.b evidence takieh'by. thp.-.comtilittoe and th'e repords ofsthVDepartmc'nt'!pinni : iiie'd by it ' ■ ' : ' Findings; / "1. That., tho statehichtsi'.jii. thft.'boaril's' rbsblutibiis thftt ■■no.politica} or'other 'influence was at any time uiSl'to ihflueiitb the board*in gr'auting 'pr.,; : refnsing'. : ..£t.-loan ■are true. ■'..■" '~;;VX''' ,' ,; '' ' "a..- That the 'memher's;' pf':the- bflatd: as £L : bpdy bf .honburabib men; hol;ding'ipPsitions pf' great■■ resp'bnsibility': and j.trust; Were justified' in asking' for an. inciuiry into -shell grflVp reflections' on'. tliei'rprp.and .adininistriitibn.' iKhiph'wefb. :inyolyed in.tho statements,• 'mM$ iii the Hbusp and the pftblio press pf :thp,J)o'ihi.nion,. that money, was; lont fbr/the.'P.hrpps.o of influencing the. general elebti6'n i '.bf'.l?li; Tho -ih4uii:y has cPnipletely ..-.esphefat.ed this' board.from haying been subject:'to''Pr iHoveil by" ■^liKc^V'" , infltten<:»v, l 'itf''.J6|iH";disi i bhterge b.l its duties-.. . ;'.''•': "3-. That jie -discrimination on. political grounds has'beeh riwide. .m.vthp-.,gi-an'ti;ng or refusing of' a Ipan : fo' it local- bod| ,in "any elec'ttirai district;' "'""'.'"'.' "4-. That no losses have, been sustained threugh 'want bf 'security'" .jinder':',. the Advjmces"' Act.'; "-Lbsso's amounting to JJ23,()'00 w.erb' 'inquired-'jflne- ' "(a) To' tho' board's difficulty iji'finuiita i'nimedia'te inyfesthi'ents" fbri'tne ■fiinds'i.at credit bf'the &ah>'.tp.'.Lb'|al : ;A;uthpr.iti.eE Acccun't; aid ..- ' "(b.) To tho remissinit of lps. pbf cent, olipwed' to the Bcj?:a.rtm'ent being in'suffl. eient to .covet expehsps and less: pf interest Whilst ,tU6. : 'mone.ys,rem'fli.Hed uuiuvestcd. ' This fact was''Mii.ted out by bit Joseph' AVarll in his Financial 'Statement of 1910, page 'G67, Haiisardj'-Volunio W9, ."5. The' losses,rßferved'tb in Clause-4 are a mere trifle compared to.those hiade under tho old tern, abblishcd 191,0, .under which the State madb lpssos of- capital, to over £2,300,009, ~ ' ... , . "G ' That the'' cbnimitni'en'ts made . for payments of iristalinente dxtfihrting oyer a period of years < were in •aeeprdancb With I tho regulations issued by the Crown, Law Officer tinder tlio provisions of the' Apt. The Crown Law Officer haviflg now advised that svtch grants wbre illegal, the Act should I'bo altered to permit of these .instalments advances being made as in, the post, inasmuch aS it is ft great-cpiiveniencei to local bodies to obtain-advances by instalments instead of in ono "suiii.'las in. liuiny casps tlio wcrte must be spread Over a loftß period, and the instalment systein enables a ceherent,' instca<L nf. a spasmodic, system, of public . works being planned' and carried into effect. . . ■'~.. "7 That the I'ost Office promised in June last to lend to. the Government JD1,500,000. Had it fulfilled jthat promise, there would have be.im niorp tnan sum-' ciont to meet all eji'gagohients. ; ' "8. The (Jomtait'tep lia'ye' fouM-.that the nnly transaction that might be benstrued. into «ii .htteh'tp.t to. esof.ciso :polltictil mflnencb was that in whiph, a,telegram, was so.iit hy 'Sir John Fihdlay.'jit the request of a deputation inquiring'as to the' : delay in. the granting of tv Mn, and, asking: for an advance Thisv'hbw--. over, on oxaniihation 'of. .the...pvidßnce > arid reoprd's does not 'bear out'that, .ponStriictioii, because— , , , : ".. '.; "■ "(a) Tho loan of:the, Bem'ribr'a ..RoadBoard was provisibn'a'lly ;-apprbyed -by, tho board .early 'in"Mi,y,.-ll(l-V- .Sir.Jpnn Pindv lay was then..put pf New. iZealarid, - "thj Ths -tolegram : was, riot opriiiiS\iriicat- ; ■od to tho, bpa.frj. '" • '~, "ie) K iv.n's the result. of a oomplaint made'by a, do'plifntibri to-.h'im. allceiiig perlay in pajihg .pye.riniprie'y jvliich the, local. Irodv believed was due to it/ . ' !' ' "(<1) Tho delay, wiw dub to .tlio. local, hody's owii fault, iri'd the' ooriditions-to ,b* bompiied \vith were- .pointed out iu.thb telegram-iii. reply, arid, the 'a'?ked : . for-was.deblih^'d.. '' " : .. "■; '.".In tlji'3 cpntioctioii jt Bhpiold bo -statedthat mo nibiiar waa paid oyer for six.

vseks 'after tE6 :; t«l^am..iWas,' , 6cnt >l vtliß;j.; v}//; irst :hbj second;ballots' /;' : :; ", ''/;/://.{./:V ,; i/./S:'~: '%. Now, that mbhby« I , : niay:/hot^lw/oW;v/; : /;--j ainable. tho,Ppst,;Officfl,-' ! whi6K was■/¥,/;'/:! :lip.usual and pidy;'ixiur(»:6f;supply/tbo^vV. : .C-.;; lot "should bartered iqyablb"by local l :b^^|?sfJ^tji€^m.ma , 'as'; , that;■;^■'C'^■! l ■! it. which: it 'fe..raiscdi;when.the-moneys are: /,;''/'■;; jayabjo: to- tho':locdl.'bodio3," plus : ;a. / i'nablb .'ainpu'nfc.for.j.-costsv.'of'.'■fidmimstra- .?:■;: : : : ,> Son. "' ''.""'■'■ '"'"f-. .• , '" : '"vP|'-i.'.:.-''-:'A'..; "2; As tho ariidutft.aiitbori'se'd.'ea'ch-'ytari' £li00t)»0(i0v is-bbw/ibtifld/iiot .tp' : -be'.suffix' :i ~:/ : ~//; :i«n.t tip Satisfy: a!l\i /^p'p , licati6h , si..pwf«r-'*\.: : ' , '%j- , '.l sticts- should bp givei fci ■localYbodies whose;;;..:'*':.?'' inancial -position/and' difficulty,of,.carry; ; v i,-■'•> ;''? vh'jr. on their wprks;entith3 ; them::tp,:prefcr/;://'/.'; mt'iat trbatinent; ,£'S';:tiiis. 'jvbuld'.plapo an'.,".'■': / ;•:/,■ invidious- duty on...''the;■'. board^'tlie>'-; Act ..•.. //_/■; mould lio' amended' sin,-thb.'.direptionV. of;/"rt./ jlassifying loftal^'iiut^^Ues■;a^rdingly.":■<-! : ;^" ,, i : ;,. , ; ' Mr. P'ftjinn said,;'.that' he/iyouid.'lipid// :. '■■'.;■ over his remarks uhtil/thb/debate ■'■ was. '■;'■.. .'.' resumed. ~;.;,:"/':;;/. ://:. "'/:'... ;" 5 'In .reply ■;/ Bald that ho j*nsidcre^..thatrori'o;!deba'te'.-.|/"!-... , ; , - 5 i would. suffi'c«'..for':tho'i : Advaiic«'s" : BiU' : and."''': :i for "the: report debatb. <m : - the. Bill' wduld.:'df[ord/aMiUe;:/;/> opportunities.. fot':^fib?;:difipufeion^'.;;o£--' , .!t1i»; , ..-?.K"; : ' '~', ',',.. Sposch'iby.;.Hi'oh. : iJCAJlßnv;^fw;^t^! ; : Tjie Hon;.JKs;:Allen ■ihoV'edVthev'second''■.".//" teading "of, the Now 'Zpaldnd/StateUGuaT^:.'//'' ! '''; ante©(l ,4A.dT.a^feeg^:AinVno^ , ent/:■ML , . , ■v.■Hoi T '. /#■■■ \ saftl'that, Hie,. meisuro!' was: impbrtant/ '-'■'■/-*-i TJtider existing:, legislation'dosses occ(ir^ : : .&■,■:< red ,w.hipl>' should;'.not:: occur";chiefly''r'■?£*'! tliPbiigh ,th'e \-WarahcesV..■.■Board..*''abiding ; ;; :«©/ : money fpr,some' : fimD¥W : ifhout::,being: ? ablav' •to use itjJ'No■■prp.yisbh-had'been.mada: : ■ ■'~/■'■" tb.maikp.iip thoapsseai'.'which. Were'.bound '•' '.-'■"."( to. occur^ih^v.fc-tho'vßoard'bofrowing"l-'^-'v ■mbiiby and'hot; being/able:to:iend it but' I '-. ■■■■.': next'day. \ TMs#ilLwas>;d«fp\ed>to'pfci /: ,■ :% vent such'■losses'..ih.?futurp/'i. Jti'proyided''. / : // ■that thp.' : lpcar'.bpdies : .,.shbuld ..be 'chargbd :•: :■'. " : iU an ' additicha'l l T Stli pbr ■cent;}.per ; :annuni \i : '-* ; :/V: .to nicet losses.-'-It.would:'bo- : necessary/'.■■':'•'■■// shortly to; e6us.6lidate.h.thO;;'wbolo';of:' the:;;// "= ; Advances //m',to repeal.it Eiir.th'er.-amendments, would, ' : - ..:'■:, bp/req.wrbd. next'year/br/thp/year/aftcr.:, -. *£'".'"' to put jEHisilcgijslatioV.ote'fti'niorS'.Batis-.';... \ ; : facfery.''fbpting'.:'v. : Qno". : n&atisfact6ry i fea-t" ,"•' ' j t'u'r'o of.'tJie.'exiSin'g.'.law'.was. tliat- lindsr .'"i j it tba■■'Bbard';had : ient : .mp'ney..for !two'.:or,:;' •.'. | thrSo gears' '"aheA'd'.not':vat : 'tte v ;r/ito.':\''at; ■ ■ Which, 'th>; ; jhonpV; had.;.lwn' ' ' ! ■at the; < . .1 luid'b'ee'ii.: borrowed;. , ,./Pli6v'<»untry : '.:nad ■•' ['■-■ .' in'jrears 1 C <-.■: \ .«lCpee'ding:..'tbat■' : :in.l^wluoli , ■tho' lbau.'...Kd'd!,' j beeriigi'anfed.'.w;ithb.utit:bM ,'.■..' .'■■ j ■<afe.oX,int6^fcyo\ild-liaTe , '^fcbe' : p i aid; f0r;,... th.p : .la.t|er'p.ortion';oftha lp'an'^'':Tliis, prac-'; ; ■ j iiice'.'had..Been*dc«lared ; ;: ill^ai;;:,by : ; -' the.; ; Sbli'p'itpri'Qc'ner'aU ; 'lt: i had*b^tt.isaid.that; ; ■• ■ the, regulationsJ,.pejmittcd'p;lbans: v to"'.[-''-,T»[;]' ■ '; ■ma'db in..a'dxianc'evtut'!vli9 , ''dbul)ted■^■!T^^;^;'',■.■ , . , j ■ ifakitch; whetherlb"iS;.WM;'spi'.; : .,:';\,V;W ■ ;Post Tlio ...Jos't :';.Qfficp : .ih'nd;;''nbt ibion. ; ' fairlj;, ( .:'■• '.j treateitin tlia '■ ...i Post .offib6'li^.. : 'ag^d;..tb:''db , .wa ..■; liioney ..a.t.3l'..ppr',ccnt. ; .:fori.-loans ;';.finally.':'''....;....' granted;'; WhatfjMiado been.. rcquircd;,toi.:::.: /; :i";-, dp .was,.'to iindimbnej'';. at.'^J I .';per cent'. v; : ;.'. : for'loans ! : ; he:Vcamci, .''intb'vf'.omce'. Vthere;;-i;were■,..';* cbmmitme , nt^>':fpr;>;iß2o > ceni:.. ■]., Qny. /.September;S'U^v'?.'thessl:-'.:' ; cohiniitnieiife 'h'adv'beeii-.recluced'''.to',^Gsli-.■';';■'. ■ i Mlk:bf;:this';ambunt;stin;'.hadi; ■' • tio.'.'lje' : found," inbst:of-itafe3inpVcen*ti:llt'!o;: ; V:, : 'was"a au'estion'':.whctiier,' tho:ihoriey. wuld> : - ; :,% : -», ' . lio -obtaiSied^at';3i',per. .centi; : Ho" '.did, iibt;'- , .';•.'; Mievo,.th'at'it',was.>corrcct;ias'.had 'boeii' :■:,'■:■.. \ 's'tafed,. \/ ' to"find'asmillion and .d;half'bf ...nioney. ats: W'< : ; ; ,i cent;::;:'Wliat:;ttie;.Pbst-pfficQ;;bad;-.i : :; ;(..■ .a'igree'(i: : tb''''do ■was'*.;tb : 'fina;;the'-/mbn€y ! 'at:;';:. . ■',:' '$%. ■■■per,' eerit';;ifiit■: were ..'available. v ~Ho: ■ :.,'.->:& 'had ; to'''tbU' ; :the.'Hou'se':'nbw : :'that.it. was.:'?. ■■■;■ ; very 'do'iibtfiil andeed. whbtliDr^thb■:Post- ;; : , -/- : '':■■ Ofn'(»V.couid.'fiudVd..'m'iUion.:and'a yftat"at.3i:' per .cenfc'for: localcauthori ties; ;';;;■■;:■':.: Th ! e Bill ''Doforp: ih6;;.HouS9>i:;-provided.;;;'::;;;S,; ■ that tlie ra'toV;bf^interest:' ; .pMd : i;%; i Uicap';';.;i-;.-; "bodies: should W'tbb: rate ; .0f.:.. ;:■.. V; ;Aich,:th«..hibnoy"' waa' Taiscdi ■;an^he ■:,.:s? i; ■past the board :ha'd ;.beeh, finally ..granting.;.:.,..,';; '.and tbo' .Minister' had' bee'n^nally^appravj,;j !; ': ; :,, :.in'g,' 'Icia'ns' '-for ftvo-.or-''three, ypars; ahead,-:.:. ■ :w,itliput'knowing; !"■" !oiirrcd : in. : 'doing^iitS 'coming;: into.:';.: ,>;-! Fofnce'lie:had : ibnni,that;?bwing; ;^thesß;;.; :: ;: ,i-,,, 'wild commitments,"::his :p'rede(MSMrs;-;lmd.;,,.' ti ? i-feeieii 0 '. ■■ :J ' in. cbniieotien 'with '■■■lpans ~tb local ■ V<_,, \ iibdibs,i-'He'.'had 'not been, .ableftp ,'rempye ■ ~ -..« :: : npt:.'his;fttult.:thatf; :: ; ; ; v. ■! it. "lia'd :'.been>''imposed^ '■:.-.'. .Hcriceforth ;;.tho .■: ■.«;■;{ :ibcai; ! .:. \ :cost; tbi;Taise';;tfib; ; mdieK';'';:;;;o;;; v Vk:'i \'':}JrV^i : '-'\ " ;;:PrQposed ;fßeductiqn;s.'' '■'... v .'■■"■'; tFrider ■ '■■■ tha i'past '■' ■; idniitiistration :Vp*)f'.' ■ ':''" I ■borongh :: ''bad ; gotv; :: -,SllC ) 0IJ0 ; /and.;d':romv-;:',v:';> b'oai-d ■ i£B7;Ooo. l '''.t':Tliis. was,':tli'a.,.:conditio?»' ~ in. 'whiph ;ho' fbbiid;. :thb ;^pt;.oh., pomiag.,; fir ;■:■;; :intb:'office.- " ■■Pr'acticflllrospeakiug,.,t!iero-:::v;>":; .liadiibebn. no .rcstriptipiis.'.' " ; :Ho';'ccEtendcd ;".;.:;,.■■,■' :thdt':it : 'was' ; .a most'jinfair'tlljng';'te / saddl6• '.'.' : '-'J■ -'.i ",'a .Js'ucc'es'sor'with;; suph;:.embarrassments.'. '■'■■'.;.:; -The' Bilf .proposed.xthdt^lp^mS.'shoiild;-ha, ;■"-: : madb : ohiy : :.for- tlie''.,cbnstructibn.bf,.rbads.:.,-:..'.. | bridges,' .water .and:>draitiagb;' Works,. and ;,.■. ; ;■: j ■ho. prbpbsed' : tb.:addhiri,:Gbmmitteb,;'irriga-.-v'.' ;■' J ■'tich'.works.'' Iff.'ithb'.-Bill ■it'. r was.. l proposcd "•'. ■:■ j :'&t : inb'lbpnV.bodK:should'bo;.allowed;to' ; ; ; | ; raise' liibre ''iii-'.'thre'oAycars ; 'thah..iSCOjOOO.''v .. .■la.thp ; 'Srst-;yc;ar/or;ttwff of;vthb: advances :•'. : :. b6dios.; : 'got;.in,;:; ■ "; ::parlyi^'vTh'b: ; yho: did;'not.':.. :know : 'liow' ; fo matter did;: ''-.-' ■not ■'get'.'tlieirioans.'i'and now..cpun.ty' couh- : '.'•; cil's vwhich; badly. ':ieedbd:..mbney,' '■ had. to ■/■ ■; ]-ba'i tbld;that ; thprowas;:ii-:iiinit. ■ofiioOOD',:,.;: : ; j revive, : ; nbt ; ■ . ; Uit. its' entirbty,.. liut: ; in ; ;its.jprinpiple;;:th<>-; ' ; V j i'oldxibpalv.b6.diessystem'j''^' : ''far.'. as .needy ' ..... ~! ,; lß(ial'''bVdiißs''TOrfl.'B6'n'cerh'(!d ! .-'.'j;lt,;was pro- j;■■.'.'. ; ■^6Mi'W ; a mil-'..: .■ | ' : libttV'per:: : 'dnnum,'.'fpr'':;torf i needy .lopal-ibfldiesi; : ; lti.was: proposed: to : :■: ,;■ -| pay: bii' tho loan charges of ; vi,:; : ..! '.■sup'hjlp.cat.bpdios'r'fpr, ten.'.years, .'aid: lOa.; 1 . *;. ■■; :pei''aiVn\im'.:''for'':aiioiher^■.'tenlvjcars'.'•'..After.;', r:;";.: f.',:; : ,..; i ;tovl>bar tlio'.wlioiorbf: thoObiirdcn^.^Thp '■:y\,'-.:^'i ■ Gbverhmeiit^hbpedvtprdo:'awdy' 1 tho '■;■ ■: h", ;■■ J ■:S^steni;.':bf^d3s::aild:bridges : .;votes:;;;''Ncxti,.';; ; ';'rt. j ■yeat.d 'Local Gbyeriimciit!:Bill wpuld;;bo;.:;K:;A.! /brought, down, '!'under''w^ichypcat:.:Wdieß>N:i':;i would' to;- piassified,, 1 and"; dssisCdncp;;given; ■■?&('■; v;! ■ to' 'tlienij' by: way^of' ;tb ' iteqlf.f ■'■ ■ '■■ YA totlibSbuso,and to■;.thp':;ppunlTy; ?: Atleast > ;/ ,; : .:;i 'it would pbmnibnd:itself;'tpV.lp'.bal.'bodies■■; ft "r-y-i ■;af th» .bPginiiing,:pJ ; i j i 'Advancesyt6;^p>i«r^:,.)i'^ Adwinpes'tb 'workers I SwiV T in'crleaa'nß, , :'atV.' , v^ : ; : ; . p, very :rab'i4''ratc v ;iiKl;(if'.they 'were': VsPr\'. ;'.>'.,' carbftjl advanp^.. : .to./workers;::;iMght:.get -';.;; j ■ irilo the samp: stdto.Cas. advaiices ;; tb: local >.";■'•■::.■ 1 authorities. ; Thb'Billiprpvidcd. Midft.ap-';.•,»; \.i.\ ! piioati.bii for, lbaiis '. not £?XXi. .''.''■; ;■'';■'• .Should ha'vo''pn6rily:.bv«r : iohh's:''^ ' arob'unt. Tlip'. ■linthprity: Act :■:■: ;: \.\} wdS to; raiss'a..iml.liQn.' : "a;.y,ear',:: ami he hop-,!;.;.:; '<:','' bit tliattbe;iijillibn:'a-:ypariWpuld:bp/rais-.:;:':;;! ; ; ed.' If the. Post -'OffiM'could;, find/th«'i\J>y ■nio'iicy: ■it,.wbuld : . ; hav6:'tp'' , lie':'obtained;but-,;' , .'..> :/ : i sidte/ So ,cbAild;;iiot; : rato/it/':/;;/,:; Wbiild'i^bbtainM'rit;.bn't.it:wo.uld:;^ ; to lHoddl'-toodiicsi at, that'rata;;;phis;l-stli.^krYYf^ '"'' '" -S.fr■■Jpseph;i\y^ Sir X ; th'er6;!S : .had bpt been onpJspOTk.pftigenerMity/iuv/:;;/::-; ■ ■po'ntpiided' that. JIr,: : ,Alloli/had::been :.uu-.;'. ;/••■'.] fair: in. his Tefercnces/tb the:losses of the V:'':i : :V's Adyaubps'Jwpartmbait; : '.Ho':(Sir:J;. : Ward)-:/';:'..! had ■proppsM'iJb^impto/ of; bnb pproenfe' tb;'ibeot:losses?'by/the.'.>:./:: Adyaiioes 'Ppparfinciit.i'^hdn.;ho"^ntrb^:s:U;'. : idnpe&'thp .iwiydnoes Alloh' : had ■ '-Y'S.'Waited.' hiib.'.;to J .' ; ';l)rinb;;in:.an;., : ;sysfipm : .;' ; i; ..:pf .^2so,ooo;'aijear'to; the..oountiy. ;. ;: :N6w 'r-Y'VA lib. 1 ..('Mr. 'Allen)'..;tiJKbd.'about:'adoss: of ■■'■<■ '■ * : it\ ; 'JC22,000'. or Mr. : ; Allen had .'asked/■ :ir y ■ him. jtb.'■ rbtaini ,; :in''^addition: 1 to :the.'i?'ad-;'•■'.:/:'■■' :' yanpes'. system,- tlib-.old':lbcal; bodies'. Ibdii9 ; ':' : v : .■','': ;"systbinvmndejj.w:Kich;tho ! country; lost,the';:s ;*>; wholp -of : thb-;Oapital. :'-As; to; thp?.remark/ (~>,-*;'. ; pf ; ;th6;;;Miiust«r.;'pf ;Knanco.::that;;novloan ■y'ti' ■ / i ; ;-:i'ot'.: ! pr.';.oy<!r,:wbuld.bo # ;: :.ho'(Sir ; .J. ; ;W ..,'.! ,tho'.:wholb-.of' tlio : .;\,' ■■ '■ i -fconey '.re'q'irii^ : .'shbu'ld, : bo;..obtainc<l/from. !V'. ', thb.'-P.bst'.Offibe,-;-,Tha;.Minister:'.bf;Finarica .'.■■' ■■■.'.,J ybnid'vnot'l'dafb , ;:tp-':al)olishjthV'«ynbm: un-■ ■ ■dar*'which. Ibodl.bodies 'raised ilpans". toXbo.;/;: | ''p.aid;ia oiie, ■/•■: Bill, .tho 'Minister/pf ■Finajico',was propos-. .;"' ing'that.if id;wished,: tho rata,of interest ■•.'■■ ■ bii.a' loan, in.iiU 'aecond', or'.;third /year ■ ■■' ;■■shoiU.d;bo;;rais«d:.,t(>':6ix,; eoiren.percent.; ■ . without,- tho/rabopaysm: being.; boiuiulted, ;. ' ■■Tbik;"wd3 ;: the local,/ piiblip. fodips;/ Tho differenbo 'in interest on tlib/oidnimimpiisffor thfcuext'twb or : ■thrpp. years. ! ,AiouH.bO'.t3nj.<Hffcreuco;.l»- ' :'i^^n''3J^.a^''* I .pCT.'.oont..'-.,l'rtho-,c<)JMitrj' ; ■fiad : 'to/me«t. this .difforonbo' iii boniicction : witi/the.i.oommilTuaiitsibi. .0800,000 uiorC-' tibnbd.,br; ; tho>finister it:wobld;be-called• up6n'.{b:jpVonly..je3oW'or.JM)o.::.M r hat ■. ie/fSir'.J. W*w ,i^'P?°P< «*^ ; * : b.' (lb was ; •td'::Rek ..Psrliaaient to proTide.asum of; ; ■ ,£ia ( OOo'':ia'.:.<n'd«r. tiat .'.ths-''ko&'-lttdiqs';'.: ■

% K ' might get their .money. irfi3J per,cent. Vn- ;?.: . (lei- this Bill' the' local'ibodies could oe ;'-,. .charged anything that the"', Minister liked. !: The whole of the local Midies that had !'.';: received.over under),;tho"advances' •'■■•■ sj-stem numbere'd' 'only six.' Many local ['.:. .bodies liad'/had 't£e '-'■ whole's-of. their ref .■ - quircmehts' satisfied-/without) getting anv- '.'-■:'■..' thingMikb ;£60,000.'" This'being so, lie'did '.. v not-object;td : Jha'limit/of .that amount. ?• . TheTo'at'Office had agreed, and it, was (■.■•:■ on■recbrd.Vto'provide thevnioney.required V by tho■';State -. Guaranteed\A(kances Ue- ;.-,.'■' ' partment. ■~ •'.'-,' .". ■ ~ . :',„ >■■■-■:.■■„'. Havo vyon.; v gat that !:■'-'...'...writing? ■'''■•'''■' /'■'u-V' : ' , /',t''-.'., ''»'■'-i - \„a "'-' ' ivSir" J.-Ward'said' that he had asked :Ji!a»'di-dozDn' ; tiihes.'for a ' record ™ lcl } '■.:.' .he-knewwas that fche Post I '.•:' Offico'wast'o advance,the;mone.vW local \r. '. iau'tliofities at. 31'. per; cent.,, ami W'.make v . :-'tether advance*'at.3s percent. The-Jfims--i v■- te'cv forr Finance .was.; criticising, njm, -J"" >t Ha Necessity, arose. ho ; would - l«U ; W« S whatvhe'!.(Sir- Joseph Ward) dU ; rwhen'^^bu^try's'-bank-was tho.verga of.ruinflt.6n, and :te chest 1 "sbVhollow:''"-.that;yq;i.could. hear it ', V «mndin'g -from jthe North Gape to the --' .Bluir 5 ' (Laughter; ..'--HeMvould tell them [■:■■■■■■■ Zealand in », SM >Jm>-U eitremeVdifficnlty. and which ,he-t?:''o.did?it.enormous-personal risk *»"•«£• y -v Jtand F oir l t:pf,continuin K .to i l» a Minister '"'■ of the 'Crown;'- Concluding, Sir.J. Warn !:- limed that h e : had; received advancesin K,- :ix.ndon:which ens s. , »" 'it, this country.;.- Yet.;because, the State <*. }, ■'•■■■' --fault was. found. , » ! v.:- made./mo -, charge against the» department t ■ vWIS influ?nce ; had to If; , (Opposition s'i:.Y.\.'-applause:) 's.'&tJ'-';':-?-* "r?;';,';V.'■• '~ '•■:'...•■ r ; ;: ; ' : '';fe'?; Mr.VMa'cdonald;Predicts. ;.•

Y 1 :.:.-■ :;^^.W;^D. ( ,S.:,l[*caonnld -(Bay.o & Plenty) said, that .the present Minister .for t ' ;-; ; Mnanc 6 .aiad'.^eaToured:by r Ovcry ,po ; ~ -.. : ,'- ■•eible.meaiisrtb.'dispaiag'e and discredit -Jus : ; ' ; prcdecessoriiiThis.'Jseeincd.to.bo his solo ■ ; '.'i|nd' : 'Other members'of the Cabinet re- , ;;"■; '^cognised;-A"* difficulties.'under. which _ a ; '.". Minister for' Finance' /laboured in this : !'.'■'country;^,Mr. Maodonald ndiculed the -,i ;' '■'•-■. : proposa!,. to ,:'rovive:;,the.. old. local ■ bodies i ' •' - '.ifoani'system.';, After: .dealing with some . f"''■:' ■'details, of:the advances :system;,Mr. JUnc- i ••:' .•■donald''eaia;'thatCtliey' ! .'ivere being told : i; : ; 'that'!i'lieavcn-borh..Minister,for. - Finance i '• ' 'bad^coffleitb:£aye" : this.country «om.,<le- i ! - :■-.>' .>structibn'.'' He'.bnly hoped' that the,llm- i !■'"■:''-'■''iister".would"'leave./the', finances;; iri?.? . i-■■.' healthya-statesas:they.-had been, left-in ; i' : '- ; by'his predecessor. He predicted that the j [■'■"' .of "this" country' .would, not : <-' / accept the- arrangement in regard to in- j V tereston loans', in advance proposed by . i , . the 1 Minister.' The.Minister-was showing ■ (■■"■''■■ more-care 1 for-his'fown-deputation than •,"'■■'•■. '■'' -i or""the.'interests of ;New. Zealand. ■■" He . ;■-.'■■' ' was-'seekihg'rather'to protect himself and'. : lyhat was . j;- • ! best-for'the couhtTyli'lf-weVwere' always . i ■"- 'looking' out foi-'wooWd'desolation, we ]:"V would'-bea- pitiable; lot of people in.this. . '::'.'■ '•country; 5 ' He invited' ; the'Minister to do j, . sometliing.i'nsteadibf ■making promises for ', thV : future' 1 . f-'\ ] \'~ : '*^'/J.'<■ '-''' -v : ' : - : - ■■'■ £■' ■• Dead; Letter. ; ;' §K- > ; said ' that \ | .••"■'.; the/.whole,? endeavour.; :;pf'..the : last two . f'., -./speakers had.been to.blacken the attempt' ~\ f■;'. ;^.^■■'otV,the-.Mini^r»ip^.'|2!, ina'ncd. : ', '!.:;•■■• .'.the.:' New-.Zealand-; State, Guaranteed Ad- , i;:'.. 1 : : vauces,- ...-inquiry, ;. the . re- : 1"'..-;'; 'por.tVvi :ahd- y';eyen'. li ;.jthe. .. amendment ' proiwsedi-iby,,,-the.-..Opposition, .. showed .'■ 1: ;; ; fhat;:the '.MYahces'iA.ct'.needed strengthen- '• i.:.•V^■':tng;;.|i•(^;Si^}';J^!tt^a^d / when ;''; ■. the';preseht-.Acfc. was;;.passed -no , division ' ' ' •■• Was -.taken,;, but! division after division had-. '/■' ■ 'been;• taken.on proposals, to-retain .the; old y.. ■ ; ipcaUßodies.'Loans.system -for the.'bene-. J;--,.' -fit ,of.>,eountry;locttl;-bodies.\: Every man •. Jon the.pther. side, had voted against "these . '■ '.proposals.;' ''.What the Government' aimed -;'■-:'. at -doing-was Vtp .subsidise - the. efforts of '■•• 'those whowere .willing.to help themselves.' "~ ! A ; ,return; laid;before the-Public -Accounts ..;"'. : the monthly total ■;.- ..of ./loan fronu 'comparatively i -... small sums.,tpd£Uß,opo. in. a ; month~bef ore r'V. Vthe-electibn,' and dropped immediately af- -,- "■; -, ferwaids..; to;.. £26,000... and ' per j-j.; -month:. ■' The;administration' of # the Act i ■'. ■.:! 'had : jnade. it a'idead.leter.-vThe late. Minf;-'.--, ister;.for■Pinance ;(Sir.-J. Ward) had ae- ':;;'.■ ' glected;tp raise;., loans.,for,..which! authori- ;:'■: qes had.been.'takeh);;Withtho result that I''"- he <had,to'starfc this-yearwith a debt, or • ■.■■,c6mmitmehts>'i.;p'f:'-.jEßoo,ooo,';'-'.lf' the hon. .'. - gentlemen-opposite'spoketheir true minds. > ■'■>'■:' 'they;.wo'uld-admit' , .tha.t this Bill-;-aimed' .'-'at'rhelpingCtKe.JbM'bbdies. whose iieeds ';;.-.':'. '.'>vere'.' v grMiesl; : -.v;V;V' , ''' > .'.-.-:':.'.; ';' : '.■■'/■ '' : :', t;v;^.':^:', ; ,r;:k,^An, / U ;■ ■'~'-'.'Mr.-H/iG. EU (Christchnrch" South)'said ;;.-.- that he liad'neyer;:heard; a niorb ingenious. \fj. criticism than'that uttered by.the-Minis- ;", .; .that nig_h,t. - Mr. Allen f", : . /jhad'always been a'calamity-howler. He ;.:■•: ■had'.bppbsed the : Advances scheme at its !,;:. ;iucep'hon,-at that timehe said that money :; ;: , 'could not ;be obtained at less than %\ per ; '.'. v .cent. ; ■■ Questioned !by ; Mr. ; Allen, Mr.Ell i.';; BaidCthat.hetwas ..quoting .from a speech ;.. ( vm'ado:in'-189i.' r • ■'. ' ■.-.;■'■'■- ;:■■ ; - .'.I - .Mr..;;Allen':",'.:The New. Zealand State ;. . tsjiarariteed;.-Advances scheme .is only.- a '; ■' -iew;.years' old. 1 -'!' -'■ ' V .';■ j .Mr. Ell: lam quoting what jou said at ...;. the'inception of the scheme. , .'■■.': Mi'S'Allen:• Tou.are an. anachronism! , ;■;' i.Mi:. ..H.''"'Atmore.. (Nelson)-also assert- ••'• ; ed: that the Minister ior Finance had been 1 ."■ 'aingpnerous -in. his,criticism, of;;his pre- ■, "(lccessor. '.'lf that predecessor had been ; v , in."office, .Mr;, Atmore./ivent.on to state, V ... .'there would have been less whining about rr".'-';':'the' ,difficulty';of .raising, money. There ■•;;. ' 'was-6itly-.room.ifor optimism in thinking ;...'. of;the'!futnre_ of' -New' Zealand. 1 : ■ ; Mr: ,J...Graigio,:(Timaru) asked how ' ;.. ; ; tho.-Minister. intended to discriminate be.;tween local-.bodies; in. distributing the •'■-'•-.. quarter;of a million to bo raised nndei--1; ; .the Bill; . '.;,.;,.- ?• ;;. vi.The-Minister-in Reply. l."-'-'.--.'-'Tlio Hpn.-i-Jas. "Allen" said that 'the ',:':' -Local Government Bill of next year would \ ,'classify;/lbcal bodies.':.-•■ The. 1 intention,,was '.. -to. .assist'country local- bodies that-i'.had. c':' ;roads to construct.. Goin&.fpn'to reply to •'■ .his. critics',. Mr .'Allen saidt that there had -'-■ been very .little..criticism.'of the Bill, biit : - ■■ a'good many'personal'attacks on ,hini-. ''.\". /Self. He had heard such&ttacks before, .->O-and did not mind them.' -*If yon-want to i.'-'.";'.. : -.attack-ine,"-'said -Mr..Allen, "attack me. ; - '1 don't care a : bit, so. long as I get-the Bill through/" He had not disparaged ; 'his predecessor,, he continued,■ except in; !-'■'■' criticising his..policy.. a man. tb. ; Bwallow the policy of his .predecessor, even '>' ■ though' it. had been declared illegal by ! the .Solicitor-Gencral?'?.;-'Whflt.,,generosi.ty. ; . . .personal abuse, and attack. -A that Sir Joseph Ward ': knew, tiiatflosses. would 1» incurred by i 'the Staie'- J Advances Department, but why had he made no proyisiori-ior these losses, and ho.allowedj.these- losses to '-. ■ . accumulate'for Wo years and a half ? Defending tlfrproposal'-tq recover from local ■"■'-' bodies the-rate of- intcrestat. which money : was' raisedSby the ; Govcrnrfient,. Mr, '''' - Allen" saidVthat 'in advertising a loan ;'-" poll- local;' bodies,vsb - far .-lie I"'-' knewrnever mentioned the rate ot-inter- | ! •■'■-■■ est Moreover, iocalbodies would not be -■.-.■■ com'poMife ■ take .the second' «l^J»wit, of a loan-at a-higher, rate of interest..! '■ Thev' could -refuse,the advance n they '. li'Ved";{o'"d&: so.-« a local body wanted >'-: to'go onVwitli the work it would Imve. ■ tlfe-higher rate ofjinterest. The alternativbvof letting locfil Mies have -■•' tlie- monejyat less than what it cost was ::■'■ R f.'downrigbt unsound policy of plunge, ivhich he:;did not intend to adopt. Mr i Allen referred again to the statement that ' the Post .Office-had agreed to find a mil- ;. lion.amKtelialf it three nnd a half per ;;- -cent < and l-extracted from Mr. Myers an ' '- admission-that no promise to provulo the amount-named had been made by Office.. 'Die'' Secretary to -the Post Office . iliad said -that the money would probably '-. ,l>e available;: Sir .Joseph -Ward had sug- . gested tliat--moucy for local authorities should be-obtain'cd from Uin Consolidated Fund.-' This.ainoiinie(l'. : iii clfect to a pro- '.■' that.-.cxtra taction should be iin-' posaii aiid=tlio proceeds lent to local bodies ; at 3i pbr-.-cent; .He. did;not.intend to adopt 'any!'such absurd proposal.. Sir JoscpK-Ward: You don't know what you iviJl havo to adopt yet! . Mr Allen:. I hope the lion, gentleman will not mako any tlu-eaLi. I am not at- ' '' tacking him.personally. lam attacking i ' r .'his policy•' and administration which 1 ;': think were. : )»th bad.- .-'..,. . . !■'■■" Tho. Bill-was-read,-a sscond.tuneon tlia ;•■ '. ' voices; -.':;.;;-:• :' : [ ■ '' •'.''- ;"-'. , :f:;"A; Vindictive 'Party Spirit," ' '•■■ ■:-" Mr.' J. A. Hanan' (Invercargill) resnmj ed'hi'.speech'.'bii his 'amendniMit at 0.:i0 -•' : :V a.m He 'saidibat,. the -'report a* pre=enled ■"' -'to 1 fra-tned.in a riudiciivo Daiiy eyint.

■aX.;/;- '. '■" :-.,..A— i ;— f Iti omitted a number of important points wrtich should have been included in order to '.explain the facts as they wcre_ discovered by evidence before tlao Committee. The\ statements made by itha. Minister Ijor Finance, which had led to the inquiry, were to the effect that thero had been rpolitieal influence used, in the adlidnisCration. of. the State Advances De> 'jmrtment, and also ' that; there had fieon squandering'-of public 'money. Mr. • Allen: What is your i authority for making''that statement? Mr,. Hanan: My authority, sir, is the statements made by the Minister for Fin-) Mice in this -House. ■ Mr. Allen: Quote some of them. j Mr. Hanan- said ho would, do that later [ en. Tho statements had led to.the members .of the board asking for (in inquiry. It>liould then hare been the duty of the Minister to prove the .truth of his statememts,! but he would toot. give evidence. Tho'jeport said tluit mo. members of the' board should not have v demanded an ingniryion tliejgrounds of headlines in the ) press;; This was merely a miserable at-. itanptAto shield the Ministers. He disapproved! of tho .'recommendation that there a change madejn the personnel of the"', Advances Board. The Minister had inspired: the report, and. then the I members' of tho party. had been, whipped \up to' tliV> Comruitteo meeting. Mr. Allen said this was incorrect. •Mr. .Hanan: I hope, the honourable gon'J3eman will not tempt me to make a remark. I don't ; .want to, hurt anyone's feelings. '•'■:• ' Mr.', Allen •:■'. Say anything you like. I dpn't';;ciiio.'.'a-':'ia-p'.' '"■■.'■ -..., y. . JVIr.; Hpnan' said thai callousness was & .characteristic of Mr. Allen., However, he,'did not wish to say what he, had in his .mind. " ' ■ , '•!■■•■' Mr-Wilson: Go on, you're dying to say it. ■-'. Mr. Hanan complained generally '.that the was one-sided, incomplete, and unfair. ■'■.-.■■ ■ ■ ; Mr; J. Oaigie(Timai'n) strongly . defended the advance system as originated by Sir Joseph Weird, and especially defended the loans ihado to Timarii. • Mr. L.. M. Isitt (Cliristchurch North) said the report was a desperate,attempt on the part of men who had uttered and re-uttered political slanders in support of which they 1 had never adduced one word of'.evidence.; to blacken \the. previous administration. It was a ; report coloured by political hate. Partyispleen kad dominated', and. determined tho verdict of the Committee.". ~' \: A division, was taken on;the amendment at 1.30 a.m., and the amendment was defeated by. 39 votes to .28.-.-.Following are details:— ■■ Against (39).—Allen, Anderson, Bell, E.,P. Bollard, Bradney, Buchanan, Buiclc,, Clarke, -Dickson, Escott, Fisher,. Fraser, Guthrie, Harris,- Herdmam, Hemes, Hine, Lang, Lee,-. Malcolm, Manffier, Massey, Dr. Newman, E. Newman,.. Nosworthy, - Okey, Pearce/ Pomare, Beei'.'B. H: Rhodes, Scott, 'F. H. Smith, Stathaim,Sykes, (r. M. Thomson, Veitch, Wilkinson, Wilson, Young. For; . the . Amendment (28).—Atmore, Buddo,\ Buxton, Colvin, Craigie,'. Bavey, Ell, Forbes, Glover, Hanan, Hindmorsh, Isitt, Liiurenson,- M'Callum, Macdonald, MlCenssieV Myers, Parata, Payne, Poland, RangihiroVi, Bobertson; Russell, . Seddon, i ,Sidey_,E.»W. Smith;. Ward, Witty. : Pairs;— Against: J.'Bollard and-G. Hunter; For: J3ir .J. Carroll and J. Vigor Brown.' • ■', r • \ , "'■."" . Sir Joseph' Ward .'(Awarua),, said the division just ;.taken'; was ,a significant one in thai it meant thaf most of the members had voted without Having read the evidence,,and they were virtually condemning men unheard. -All the-members of the bb'aiyl'had: stated in evidence that no attempt 1 had j ever :been made " by a Minister to influence them -in'connection with the advancing > of' money . \>f the board. -.The.'fact : re'mained ' that in the highest '. count"-'of law, in the country a vote had,been given on /this question on party linesT • Parliament had practically condemned. the members of the board, and had. said ; that'their testimony. was not to be accepted.!: More money had been granted by the , board to v districts represented by members- of the'present Government than' to those represented by members -of the present Opposition. '.The Hon. James-Allen quoted' the Tegu-. lations,,governing the.;, operations of the State; Advances Department in support of a contention that the Board had'been acting illegally in respect of its oivn regulations.. . '.'■:■■ ... ', ;■ ..,;:, (Left sitting.),-. . - .. •'•