AN EVENING SITTING.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1575, 19 October 1912, Page 2

AN EVENING SITTING.

AND AN ELECTRIC TERMINATION. SIE J. WARD GOES OUT. Tho Committee resumed its sitting at 5.30 p.m. Members continued their examination of Sir Joseph Ward. To Mr. Allen: Witness stated that if he were Minister lor Finance he would obtain at 3} per cent, the money required to meet the commitments, amounting to «£'GSI,OOO. "I know exactly what I would do," said Sir J. Ward, "but probably you would not do it." Mr. Allen: I would bo very glad if you advised. . Sir J. Ward said that he certainly should get the money at 31 per cent. If he were Minister for Finance he would not go to the London market for the required funds. If ho had a surplus of a million and a quarter in prospect he would take authority to take a portion of this amount and lend it to tho local bodies at 3J per cent. Mr. Allen: Take it out of the Consolidated Fund?—" Yes, the Consolidated Fund is in a very strong position." Mr. Allen: Then the only answer I can get from you is that yau would get it from the Consolidated Fund? Sir J. Ward: I don't know that it is my province to tell you what to do, but I should get it at .1} per cent. Mr. Allen next asked witness whether ho knew that there would be a loss on tho working of the Department before it started. Sir J. Ward said that lie stated so, publicly, in the House. . Mr. Allen: Did you make any provision for the loss? Sir J. Ward: That is simply putting a question lo me when I am out of office that is not of any importance to me from my standpoint. He added that he had saved a loss of .6250,01)0 annually as compared with a loss of cC22,000 or X' 23,000 under the existing system which covered two or three years. Mr. Allen: Have you no answer to my question whether you made provision for tho loss under tho new system ?—I have already answered. Mr. Allen: I think not. In further cross-examination witness stated that on November 13, when he was in office, the Government had reducod the amount to bo lent to any local body to ,£SOOO. The present Government had nnt reduced the amount to be lent to a local body. So far as lie luiew, (he board was conducting its business legally. Tho legality of making leans for some years ahead had not come before liini.

Mr. Allen: Do yon think it was a Tight policy to lend so far ahead and so much? Witness said tlmt he did, because in the alternative '-he board would have had to lend .the whole amounts to the local bodies ami they would have held it anyhow nl. .!} per cent. "A Pisco of Impertinence." The examination continued placidly for a time, but shortly before li p.m. a Hidden change occurred. Mr. Allen asked a series of questions in regard to the amounts I hat ctuld bo obtained from tho Consolidated Fund, in October or Xo,\:uilkt, for the use of local bodies. Sir Joseph Ward insisted on replying in reference to funds available at ihe end of iho iimiucial year, lie said that", as put, the question was like assessing the liabilities of the country at tile end of Juno. This ho would describe as a trick. Mr. lline: I must ask you to answer the question put or refuse to answer it. Sir Joseph Ward: It is my business how 1 answer—yj.i shall not dictate to me—it is a. piece of impertinence! -Mr. Ilanan: Surely Sir Joseph Word luis a right to a.aswe'r as he chooses. Sir Joseph Ward: Von have 110 right to suggest to Mie how I should answer questions. It is a downright piece of impertinence! The lion. James Allen moved that the words "a downright piece of impertinence" be taken down, and asked the chairman to prevent, the Use of such expressions. Sir Joseph Ward: So it is! The chairman Ims 110 right to tell me how 1 should answer a question. Mr. lline (to Sir J. Ward): If you will glance buck you will realise that Mr. Allen asked you what occurred in October or November, und that you persisted in wandering olf in!what occurred in other months. 1 ask'd you to give a straight answer or lofuse to answer. Sir J. Wards I did nothing of UlO kind. I jvas rcfcrrijijf to tho position of this

coimtrv at tli© end of the financial year, uml IIY. Allen asked me what hnpi>cned in October and November. ] said that that was like assessing tho liabilities at the end of .Inne. Mr. Mini': Tlial: is begging tho question. -Mr. Allan again moved that I lie words, "A downright piece nf impertinence" bo taken down. Mr. Ilanan: Surely you will take the previous statement with that:' -Mr. Allen: Take any words you like. -Mr. lline regr-i'lled that if should Ih> necessary to record the words, lie had hoped that Sir .1 nsepli Ward would recognise that he had spoken in the heat of the moment, and would withdraw. Sir Joseph Ward: It is not 1 who should Withdraw. 1 have my ri;;hl s as a representative of the people. The chairman has no right to tell mo how to answer a question. Tho resolution can bo carried and reported to the Jlouse. Mr. Ilanan: What 1 object to is that you tako his answer and it is a subject of comment, afterwards. Sir Joseph Ward: Tlio chairman did the same thing- this morning. Mr. lline said that he could not allow Sir Joseph Ward to refer to a previous occasion. Mr. Ilanan: I submit that you can't put that resolution to the House. Jlr. [line put the resolution to the committee, and declared it carried on tho voices. Sir Joseph Ward Leaves the Room. Sir Joseph Ward: Very well, then, I will retire from tho committee! You can do what you like. I am not going to stay on a committee that does this sort of thing at the instigation of tho Minister and tho chairman. I believe in a fair tiling, and I have acted in that way throughout. Mr. nine: I don't think it is becoming Mr. Allen: I bono that Sir Joseph Ward Both chairman and Minister were interrupted by the slamming of the doer as Sir Joseph Ward left the room. Mr. Hinc completed his rem.r.'k by saying that he did not think if incoming in a member to leave a committee-mom with such remarks. Mr. Ilanan: I don't think you should have acted as you did. Mr. Myers .said that the mutter should not he, further discussed at (hat stage, but should be reported to ;he HJV.se. Mr: Allen: We don't discuss il, lot it go to tho House that he refused to withdraw the words, and walked oat ot the room. It was agreed that the words, "a downright piece of impertinence," should bo reported to the House, also l.lint Sir Joseph Ward had refused to withdraw the words, and had left tho committee. The committee adjourned at Go p.m. /until 10.30 a.m. on Tuesday.