THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1550, 20 September 1912, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

PUBLIC TRUST OFFICE. . REALISATION OF ESTATES. . A i?EPI,T TO CRITICISM. The House met at 2.30 p.m. \ The Hon. A. L. HERDMAN (Minister in charge) said he wished to make a statement regarding the Public Trust Office. He had l>een asked to do so by tho Public Trustee, and in fairness to him, he'(Mr. Herdman) thought he should do it. Quoting from n memorandum from the Public Trustee, he said that in the report of the Public Service Commission, the Commissioners stated that in their opinion the 'Office did not realise estates' falling into their hands to tho same advantage as private .trustees. This statement might have a very damaging effect on the operations of, the Office, and it was, therefore, right that it should be refuted. It .could be conclusively shown that the realisation of estates was the most successful of the Office work, for the Office possessed advantages which private trustees could not possibly have. It was a matter for regret that the Commissioners should have committed themselves to such, a statement without' giving him (the Public Trustee) or;any responsible officer ot tliu Department an opportiiniiyof dealing, with the question. Successful realisation of estates was 'one of tho most conspicuous features of the Office administration. He quoted examples of estates in various parts of New Zealand which had been realised at considerably above the Government .valuation. Realisations by the Department were never forced, because the Office was always i willing to -make advances, to meet ;claims 'against the estate pending a proper opportunity to, sell. Advances : were also readily given to beneficiaries who wished' to invest their legacies, in order that a sale need riot bo forced. The Public Trustee had special advantages in regard to. .local knowledge. The Trustee was also able to offer most liberal terms of sale to purchasers, and the result was that sales were almost uniformly, successful. The fact that so many prominent business men placed their- estates in the office -was sufficient ,to meet tho imputation that estates were not realised to advantage. ' Having read the statement, of which the above is a summary, Jlr. Herdman moved to lay the paper on tho table of the House.

Were the Commissioners Right?" • Mr. G. W. FORBES' (Hurunui) said that in the interests of the office a.' mero refutation by the head of the Department was iiot.sufficient. A damaging imputation had been mnde by the N Commission and the .Government should make an investigation in order' to be able to ensure the 1 public that the office was being conducted thoroughly well as ho believed it was.

' Mr. G. WITTY (Riccarton) supported tie request for an inquiry. Mr. HERDMAN said he ltould be very glad to - do as the honourable gentleman had suggested.-

The Hon. D. BUDDO (Kaiapoi)-thought the Public Trustee's statement should bo printed in order that all possible publicity should be given to it. He approved unreservedly of the Public Trust Office work as a Department of State - activity. Mr. H. G. ELL (Christchurch South) testified to the value of the Public Trust Office and expressed regret that anything in the nature of an attack should havo been made upon it: Sir JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) said that the paragraph in the Public Service Commission's report which was under discussion contained an important recommendation with which' ho personally agreed. Ho. referred 'to the suggestion that an "Inspector .of Realisations" should be appointed. As to the Commission's statement ho. was not prepared to take it without some reservations in the absence of tho evidence upon which tho Commission had based its report. The report of the Public Trustee showed Hut 111 a number of cases assets hnd been verv profitably realised. For estates valued by the Government at .£BI,OOO the sum ot ,£141,000 had been obtained. It seemed to him that the statement of tho Commissioners, unsupported by published evidence, was open to very serious doubt as to its accuracy. Evidence would have nan to be taken extensively in all tho centres all over the country to justify such a statement.

Some'lmprovement Possible. -Mr. C. E. STATHAM (Dunedin Central) said that from the remarks of some honourable rnembers one might conclude that no fault was to bo found with the working, of the Public Trust Office. Prom this opinion he 'begged to differ. In some cases the office had failed lamentaW, m administering estates, and some or the district agents were not fully competent. He knew of one who was lacking in legal knowledge. Mr. W. C. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) said that it must be patent to anyone conversant with, business methods that « a capable business man could administer an estate better than the Public Trust Office. In the statement read by Mr. Herdman, the Public Trustee stated that a private trustee could not delay tho administration of ah estate. This depended solely on tho will that was being administered. He was as willing as anyone to admit that valuable work had been done by tho Public Trust Office, and that it would be a misfortune for tho country if it wero abolished, but ho was not pre-' pared to admit the validity of the whole of the statement which had been laid before tho Houso.

Mr. T. BUXTON (Temuka) said that the only people who objected to the extended activities of the Public Trust Office wero the solicitors.- Afc present all the work dono at places other than Wellington had to be reviewed at Wellington.

The Hon. A. L. Herdman: That is going to be altered.

Mr. G. T.AURENRON (I-yttellnn) said that the time was coming'when every will and every estate would be administered by the Public Trust Office. There was a certain class of professional men—thank God, they wero very few—who wanted to pull the office down in order to remove its competition with private individuals. Mr. Ij. M. ISITT (Christchnrch North) said that if this was an example of tho reliability of the Commission's work, then tho Government had no right to lean very heavily on tho report to snpport tho Public Servico Bill. Ho deprecated the veiled hostility of the member for Donedin Central and the member for Wairarapn. Mr. STATHAM said he had not condemned the IJenartmont; he had merely suggested that the work of the office was capable of improvement, and that it should, if possible, bo made more efficient.

Mr. E. NEWMAN (Rangitikci) said that the proposal to osto'>lish the Public Trust Office had emanated from the present Government party.

Inspector to he Appointed. The Hon. A. L. HERDMAN. in reply, said a Bill would be brought, before the House tn have the effect of clothing the agents of the Public TruMeo in the. three other centres outside "Wellington, in order that, all the office work would not here to b» referred to Wellttteton. When he

took over the office lie'found that Uiero was no system in force by which branch offices of the I'ublic Trustee, and securities held in them coulil be inspected. He had decided that some inspection was necessary! and a coinpi-LenL officer would bo nppointcd to undertake the duties. Enormous responsibilities were now undertaken by the Public Trustee, and ho was ot opinion that some alteration would have to bo made in the Act to provide for his being- assisted by some business men. The. trustee had a board to assist him now, but tho members of it were statutory officers in the employ of the Crown, and they had as- nuicli work of their own to <lo a.- I'liey could cope w?th. The men to assist the Public Trustee should be "competent, experienced, business men. He had not made up his mintl what should bo done, but it was clear that the trustee should have the help of someone in managing the affairs of the Department, lie had no objection to a thorough investigation being made into the affairs of tho office, but ho was by no means sure that it was necessary. Ho would submit the matter to Cabinet, end he would place no obstacle in the way of an inquiry.

BARMAIDS' REGISTRATION BILL. The Barmaids' Registration Bill (Hon. W. F. Massey) was read a first time. WELLINGTON CITY EMPOWERING ' BILL. ADMISSION TO THE ZOO. Mr. E. NEWMAN (Rangitikei), as chairman of the Lands Committee, reported the Wellington City Empowering Bill. He stated in reply to Mr. Ell that all the amendments mode in the Bill by the local Bills Committee had been struck out, ami now the Bill would come before the House in the form in which it was originally drawn. Mr. H. G. EEL (Cliristchurcli South) deprecated tho attempts being niado by the Wellington City Council to charge the public for admission to the Zoological Gardens. Witnesses before the Local Bills Committee had strongly protested against this, and if the Lands Committee had had tho same evidence they must have agreed to the amendments of the Local Bills Committee. With the exception. of the Minister in charge of the Bill, all the Local Bills Committee member? had been unanimous in their opposition to charges being made for hdmission to the Zoo.

Mr. G. HUNTER (Waipawo);substantiated the accuracy of the statement of the proceedings beftfro tho Local Bills Committee as given by Mr. Ell.