SYSTEMS OF VOTING.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1529, 27 August 1912, Page 6

SYSTEMS OF VOTING.

PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION. NON-PARTY MOVEMENT. DEPUTATION TO THE PRIME MINISTER. . \ A very largo deputation from Hie Wellington Proportional Representation League discussed with the Prime Minister (the Hon. W. F. Massey) yesterday the advisability of introducing the system of proportional representation into all local and Parliamentary elections. The Hon. 11. D. Bell (Minister for Internal Affairs) and the Hon. I!. Heaton Rhodes (Postmaster-General) were present as listeners. Members of Parliament supporting the deputation were: The Hon. .T. T. Paul, (ho Hon. .T. E. .Tenkinson, Messrs. ('!-. J. Anderson, G. Laurenson, and ,f. Robertson. Tho deputation was introduced by Mr. .T. Robertson, M.P., who explained that its request would bo that the proportional system of election should be applied to all local bodies'and to both Houses of Parliament. The Hon. T. W. Hislop said he did not propose to expound tho subject of proportional representation, but it must bo admitted that the present method of election had proved not-at all satisfactory. Tho representative body ought, it had been written, to be the nation in miniature, and the object of proportional representation was that all sections of opinion should be fairly represented in all elected bodies. The idea had been evolved in 1857, and sinco then its growth had been steady and sure. The system hadbeen tried in Switzerland.and in Belgium on the Continent, and the result had been to minimise in a great measure factional bitterness. It was a just system in that it would prevent- tho exclusion of important sections of the community from representation in the councils of the nation because they happened to reside in particular localities. He trusted the Government would see fit to apply, this more modern and civilised mode of election to thoss- institutions of our country which ought to be representative. . Trying it on the Dog! Mr. A. R. Atkinson reminded the Prime Minister that the Legislative Council Bill had not been introduced when the deputation was arranged, and the society was now very glad to see.the principle introduced there. In tho debate on the Bill some amazing statements had been made. It had been said that proportionnl representation had been discredited wherever it had been tried. That was a most amazing statement for a responsible politician to make, for exactly tho opposite, had been the case. Ho thought local government elections would , be a wide and useful field for the appli- ; cation of tho principle. He suggested that it be applied to local elections first of all, but that it should be applied-only where the local bodies desired it—tliat the Bill to bo introduced should merely authorise a local body at its option to put the Bill into force. It would be an exceedingly valuable thing to'have the experiment tried in local elections, for if it had been a failure wherever it- had been tried, the sooner this country..found out nbout.it tho better. Tho society .would-willingly stake its fortunes on the success of the experiment if tried! There seemed to be no need to condemn.the second ballot, because it had been condemned everywhere bv everybody. Tho Hon. ,T. Kigg had stated that to try the experiment on the Upper House was like trying it on tho dog. (Laughter.) But it was a very singular spectacle to seo some of tho Radicals in the Chamber turning Conservative in regard to this really liberal proposal. So far as the league were concerned, thev | were consistent; they wished to see it tried all round. They were very glad to see the Government trying it even on the dog, and they wojild be glad to see it extended to all human subjects just as readily. (Laughter and applause.) Who Support It? Mr. P. J. O'Kegan said, that this movement was everywhere a non-party movement—hero as it was in Britain. They claimed that there should be no privilege for any party, but that there should be equal justice for all. He endorsed what had been said, but he rather regretted that a great reform like proportional representation should have to do with a Second .Chamber, of which he did not approve. Ho had no sympathy with those who spoke against it in the Legislative Council. It did not appeal to the selfish interests of any political party. Bearing that in mind, it was marvellous what progress the movement had made. In Tasmania it had been a great success, and wherever it had been practically applied it had gained support. In Wellington there should not be the slightest objection to applying it to municipal elections. Although he himself was a Radical, he must admit that historically Mr. Massey's party had been the strongest supporters of this movement. It was, therefore, more in accordance with the fitness' of things that his party should father the Bill to give effect to tho system. Other Supporters of the System, Mr. D. M'Larcn, Mayor of Wellington, said that from his knowledge of municipal elections, he could say that the present system was wasteful of votes, and that it could not secure a fair representation of all tho voters. He did not—perhaps because of his nationality—see the humour of trying this reform on the Logislotivo "Council, or trying it on the dog. There was the representative body in existence to which the principle, could bo safely applied. The main object of the system was tu get cleanness in political life in our country, in general or in civic politics. It was necessary in order to achieve this to get rid of the personalelement which must exist under other systems. ■ ' ■ • "Professor W. T. Mills said that the present system of election was based upon tho assumption that there were only two groups for all questions, while as a matter of fact there were always many groups which should be represented in the Parliament of the day. It could not be done by dividing into two groups. Mr. 11. J. lieardon said he had been asked to attend the deputation for tho purpose of showing that working class representatives on the trades councils of the Dominion were firmly of opinion that the working classes had not had their share of representation under the existing system. They had always been the third party, and hundreds of their voters had gone to the poll not to put a certain man iii, but to keep another man out. Tho proportional system, he thought, would minimise if not completely abolish this objectionable state of affairs. He urged that the Upper House experiment, if it failed in such big electorates, should not be taken as proof of the inefficacy of the svstem. Mr. G. Laurenson, M.P.,' said he supported the proposed reform for two reasons. It would give every section of the community a chance to be represented, and it wcfuld kill the parish-punm politician as dead as Julius Caesar._ He suggested that the experiment be tried on the House of Representatives first; it would then soon spread to local bodies. A Friendly Reply. Mr. Massey said he had been very pleased to hear the. news of tho deputation. For somo time past he had been a student of proportional representation, and while he was not prepared to say that the system was' perfect, he was prepared to say that as far as he was ablo to judge, it was nearer perfection than any other system he knew of. It was scarcely necessary for him to condemn the second ballot system. It was already dead. That the Government sympathised with . tho idea of representing minorities was proved by the fact that they had introduced it into their Bill for reform of the Legislative Council. What the Government would finally do must depend in great measurv on the fate of that Bill, and it was impossible for the Government to say what it would do until the fate of the Bill'was knowp. The idea of introducing an Enabling Bill tn allow local bodies tn try the proportional method was one that commended itself to him. He had not thought nf it. before, would have very great pleasure in submitting their representations to the other members of the Government, and he hooed and believed they would have good results.