FINANCIAL DEBATE.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1527, 24 August 1912, Page 6

FINANCIAL DEBATE.

NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN. SPEECH BY MR. SYKES. A FEW WORDS ON. MONOPOLIES. ' The Financial Debate was resumed at Mr."'G. R. SYKES (Masterton) said he hoped the Government would at' once Fet to work to put their policy into efl'ect. Tho Opposition claimed to havo originated all that was good in tho Budget, bnt after all there was nothing now under the sun, and , it mattered nothing whero the proposals came'from. Some five hundred years ago, for instance, votes had been given to women in the Chinese Empire. The Opposition made great outcry about monopoly, mostly about Innd monopoly, but there was one monopoly which had always been sheltered under the wing of the late Government, and that was the monopoly known as "The Trade," which demoralised and destroyed tho people. He looked forward to the time when all monopolies soever should be brought under proper control. Referring seriatim to the policy proposals of the Budget be defended especially tkose relating to land settlement on a freehold basis, and the scheme for settling workers on the land.

THE MEMBER FOR KAIPARA. SUPPORTED THE FREEHOLD. Mr. J. G. COATES (Kaipara) attacked the statement of tho -member for Christchurch North (Mr. Isitt) that the Government had been "begotten by slander, shapen in intrigue and born in dishonour.". Mr. Coates emphatically denied tho validity of this assertion. Hβ could not, as a freeholder, possibly have supported, tho Mackenzie Ministry—a Ministry which contained six leaseholders. He denied absolutely that there had been anything in' the nature of intrigue before he, recorded his vote, to induce him to transfer his allegiance to the Reform party. He confessed that, he was surprised by the Budget. So far as the late Ministry was concerned he did not suggest that they were bad administrators. It was nil very well to bring down a, Governor's.Speech, but what was the use of it if there wore members of the party who would outvote it and make it impossible to pass the proposals into law. Concerning Native land he thought somethin? should be done to help the Native in the settlement of his land. The Native ought to bo allowed to sell surplus land, but he should be allowed also to retain such an amount of land as would ensure his independence from State subsidies. He did not believe in free trade; he believed in protection, generally speaking, but he believed that it was possible to modify the tariff and still do good. Ho believed in the election of members to the Legislative Council, but he would not support the system of proportional representation. Ho thought no blow had been struck at Liberalism by allowing the other side to have a look behind the scenes.. His hope was that nothing wrong would be discovered—so far nothing wrong had been discovered. But it was only to bo supposed that a party that had been in power for a. number of years would become autocratic. He was not a strong party man, but ho would support the party in power under certain conditions. Most of those conditions were contained in the Budget. He hoped the Government would be liberal and patriotic. SPEECH BY MR. HINDMARSH. THE DEFENCE PROBLEM. Mr. A. H. HINDMARSH (Wellington South) addressed himself first of all to the defence question. Ho argued, that the new system was already very expensive, and was likely to become more expensive. Speaking more particularly he said that not only were officers receiving more salary than they would receive for similar services in England, but they were receiving more salary than other members of the Civil Service could receive. People of this country would not have the sort of thing that existed in England, where the Army was a career for younger sons of. the nobility. He protested against the nepotism that was on in tho Defence Department. All the appointments made ought to be very closely watched. What chance hnd the son of a labouring man .of becoming an officer? He did not especially blame the present Government more than tho late Government, but he did not think that tho new Minister for Finance had grit enough to tacklo this matter. Ho thought that, the House should set up a Council of Defence, just as there had been set ut> a Public Accounts Committee. He thought the member for Tauninrunui was the most class-conscious Socialist in the House At- one moment he was the most frigid individualist—he would have no spoon-feeding—but when speakiu" of his own particulnr class he was n rabid red-tie Socialist—Comrade C. K. Wilson An hon. member: Give the other side a turn. Mr. Hindmarsh: Oh, the otlrer sirtcthey. hardly count jnst'now. (Laughter) Re suggested that there was no consistency about eithor of the two parties" in the House. They should not ba so much addicted to party-they should ,not be afraid of nicknames, stich as Socialism or Conservatism, or the like. He hopM they would consider all proposals ' from tho point of mew of New' Zealand. THE MEMBER FOR OAMARU. THE NEW PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS. Mr. E. P. Leo (Oatnaru) excused himself as a new member-or, as Mr. Wilford had described him in tamewhat mixed metaphor—"a political fledgling, cutting his troth." It was frequently stated that the present Government bad* no viplit to occupy tho Treasury "bpnclipV. At last eler.tion the country had decided that they would have no more of the then Government, and tliey had returned .18 members of the Reform party, and a majority pledged to turn the Ward Go*--jzm»v£ . pub "pi office., It _.jr.ouUL.Jba.v.ej

been better, and doubtless Sir Joseph Ward thought so now, if tho Government had resigned at once. Instead of doing this ho had adopted an extraordinary course, he had announced his intention of resigning, and then Ije had taken a voto of his party as to whether they had confidence in him. And it was admitted that he pould not have got that volo recorded unless ho had announced his intention of resigning. He sought to show that the Mackenzie Government had no light to suppose that they had a majority. Mr. Wilford, for instance, had regarded himself as "free as air," and he had spoken of the "psychological moment," und "kept his foot on tho soft pedal." Other members had likewise regarded themselves as free, and amongst them was the member for Christcliurch North, Independent Liberal, who did not like to be called plain Liberal. Mr. Isitt: He was pledged absolutely to support thc Mackenzie Ministry. Mr. Lee: Now we know where you stand. It had been said frequently that the honourable member was not pledged to support the Government, and it had never previously been contradicted. In tho end, Mr. Lee declared that tho Mackenzie Government had no right to suppose that they had a majority in Parliament. Mr. G. W. Russell asked wJiat engagements tho Mackenzie Government had entered into? Mr. Lee mentioned tho raising of tho four and a half million loan. Then the Mackenzie Government had entered into an. engagement about Parliament Buildings—another blunder. He would bo glad to see the stonemasons ordered to dig out the foundation stone that had been laid. The Mackenzie Government had committed this House and country to n scheme for the erection- of Parliament Buildings. Mr. Russell: Tho Ward Government did that. Mr. Lee said that tho Waid Government had laid a foundation stone, but any design could be erected over a foundation stone, or it could be taken up. He would not be sorry to see the Minister for Public Works tidy up the ground and leave thc foundations a,? they were for tho next five or ten years. After the fire new Parliament Buildings could have been erected for ,£60,000 or .£70,000, and at that timo the country had a good Government House. Already some .£90,000 had been expended, and the country still , only had a Government House. It had no Parliament Buildings, and it would take anything from £200,000 to .£250,000 to erect them. That was nn extravagance which he hoped neither the present Government nor any other wonld engage in. Ho hoped the Government would not attempt to introduce the reforms set out in the Budget this session. It would be better if they confined their attention to one or two of them. ■ The, Arbitration Act had been subjected to rery eevcre criticism, but it was, and always had been, n very difficult Act to administer. The Court, he thought, had always followed in the wake of public opinion. Probably some change in the constitution of tho Court was necessary. / Mr. Isitt rose, to .make a personal explanation. Ho, was almost at once called to order at the instance of Mr. Lee, who maintained that he was saying more than he was entitled to say under cover of a. personal explanation. The Speaker supported his objection, and Mr. Isitt gave a very brief explanation. Mr. Isitt declared that he hnd been misrepresented ill that it had been stated that he had given no pledge. In tho second place, it had been stated that his pledge was much more definite and lasting than the pledge he had actually given. His pledge had been that he would' vote on a no-confidence motion] for the Mackenzie Government, and with that jvote his committal ended.

MR. F. W. LANG. CROWN TENANTS AND THE FREEHOLD. Mr. F. W. LANG (Manukau) defended the junior cadet system as at present constituted. He was very glad to notice that the Government proposed to allow Crown tenants to acquire the freehold. It had been suggested that this offer was a ; mere bribe- to electors, but if there had been any bribery it had been by the Government to leaseholders on tile eve of elections. By giving'the freehold, Parliament could obviate- all possibility of bribery. LOSSES ON RAILWAYS. WASTEFUL METHODS. Mr. W. C. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) said it would be quite impossible to ceasu borrowing, no matter what party was on the Government benches, but it would be possible to spend -borrowed money a little more economically than had untortunately been the rule hitherto. It was quite clear that our expenditure; had not been kept within, reasonable bounds, having regard to our revenue and our population. iMiings were not exactly as rosy financioily as the Opposition had represented. Ihe export of most of tho staple products of the country hod decreased; it was true that values had increased, but values might just as readily take a movement downwards. It was much easier to,decrease expenditure than to in- | crease the production of staple products, which was dependent on weather and economic conditions. He-cited several lines of railway which had cost the country a ileal of money in losses. Worst of all was the Picton lirie, to Ward. This lino had already made heavy losses, and it had opened up all the best of the <»uatry at both ends. It would certainly make much heavier losses if it was completed for the eighty or a hundred miles to join up the South Island Main Trunk line. The cost would be about a million, and the line would never be as claimed—a Main Tiunk line for passenger traffic. The railway would never eupersedo tho steamer service from Lyttelton. He condemned also the expenditure on the Otira tunnel, and tho Otago Central line. The cost of railway lines had been much too heavy under our present system nf construction. Much money had been wasted. How much more profitably voulif it bo to open up our back b)nci»j v " Wiling the settlers. Mr. Forbes:. Our railways are doing that. •. Mr. Buchanan: Our railways ,-ito not doing that, because'they javo 'ocon ctnytructed through districts thot aro rot Tapable of carrying a popuhtim. He agreed with the proposal to offer tho position of general manager of railways to a suitable man from England or Camc'n, but he would be quite well satisfied tn offer tho highly-paid post to a Kcw foaiander if the man was available.

THE MEMBER FOR EDEN. LAND SETTLEMENT. Mr. J. BOLLABD (Eden) said that there was not touch encouragement to sjwak. The Opposition seemed to have disappeared altogether. The Vrime Minister: Of course, they have. There is no Opposition now! Mr. Bollard said that he had often been pained to hear the hard things said about owners of large estates. He remembered when many of the=e gentlemen came to the country. The' Government of that day did all it could to induce men with mciiey to come to the country, and 'take up all the land they wanted. Why should these men now be called "social posts." No one had eneonrngpd them more to come to the country than Sir George Grey in his day. It disgusted him to hear about a tax to ! burst up larjeestntw. He did not cbject to n moderate graduation, but if Hib Government wanted the land it should buy it at a fair prico. He was a thorough believer in the freehold us iv.i OBient in closer settlement. Lease with right of purchase was a good , tenure for jctllers with little capital. He knew a Rood cieal about the valuation of land, and would defy any man-to separate the improvements from the unimproved value of land. As to the unearned increment, if anvone should get it it was the people who bought New Zealand preduce in London and gave additional value to our land. It was not population that gave value to land. Else why was land cheaper in England to-day than it was 50 years aso? Jlr. Bollard endorsed the proposal to give Crown tenants the right to acqiiiro tho freehold of their land. The system nf land-ballots was bad. Family syndicates were formed to take advantage of the ballot. Not one-fourth of the ten<mt> "'ho had taken up loud at the ballot wove in occupation of their holding? now. The, rest had sold out at a handsome profit. Hn believed in the deferred payment system, and the home-lead system, abandoned by the Seddon Government, should be revtvp'l and applied to tho ncrfhern

MR. ATMORE. THE KINGING OF THE BELL. Mr. 11. ATJIOHE (Nelson) complained that tho graduated land tax was not satisfactory. He spoke for ten minutes, during which timo tho House had gradually emptied itself, until at four minutes beforo midnight there were thirteen members in their benches. At midnight Mr. Speaker's attention was drawn to tho state of the ]louse, and tho bell was rung. ■ Mr. Ilnssell: That is not playing tho game. We haven't done this with vou. Mr. Ell: We'll chivy you for this Wore the session is over. The ringing of tho bell brought up the attendance to 23, but before long it was again reduced to a bare quorum of 20. Mr. Atmore contended that in connection with tho recent raising of a. loan the Government had not dealt fairly with Post Office depositors. Mr. Massey had condemned the action of Sir Joseph Ward, Minister for Finance, borrowing , money from Sir Joseph Ward, PostmasterGeneral, at less than tho money could bo borrowed for outside. Did the l'rimo Minister approve tho same thing being done by his own colleagues? The foolish adulation that had greeted the' budget from tho Government side of tho House was nauseating. Ho contended that it was no more reasonable to import a General Manager of Railways than to import a Premier. Ho took the Government to task for not dealing with the Customs tariff, and for various other alleged faults.