THE HINE CHARGES AGAIN.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1521, 17 August 1912, Page 6

THE HINE CHARGES AGAIN.

PAYMENTS CHALLENGED.

HOT DEBATE IN THE HOUSE.

WAROIBT: 'METHODS EXPOSED.

SOIE INTERESTING DISCLOSURES.

A discussion which lasted for nearly two hours was opened in the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon, when

Mr. J. B. HINE (Stratford), as CUair-innn-of the Public Accounts Committee, presented a, report recommending that tho following classes of the Consolidated Estimates should be allowed to pass without amendment:—Legislative - Departments, Public Buildings, Domains and Maintenance of Roads, Justico Department, Mines Department, Department of Internal Affairs, State Coal Mines accounts. Public Trustees' account,: New Zealand State Guaranteed Advances Account. Tho committee asked for an extension of time in w:hich to consider tho remaining Estimates, until Friday, August 23. Mr. Hine moved the adoption of the report. Mr. G..W. RUSSELL: Does tho committee recommend the adoption of these classes without alteration or amendment? Does.tho committee recommend that this large body of Estimates should be passed in globo? Mr. Hine: "Tho wording of the resolution speaks for itself." Continuing, he said that beforo tho Speaker put tho motion ho wished to mention a discussion which had taken place before the committee regarding an item in tho Department of Internal Affairs. The item'related to an inquiry in.which he had be?n Eoncorned two years previously. Tho Item was: "Inquiry ro allegations by Mr. J. B. Hine, M.P.: legal expenses, ,£504." iThero was an.impression that this amount of. money had been handed to hTm, of .was to be handed to him. Naturally, lie had taken the first opportunity of going into the item, and making himself clear'before the committee, and he now intended to clear himself before the House. When the Hine charges were first instituted he asked ' permission to be. represented by counsel. Tho committee granted that application. The question of expenses was never raised by himself or by his counsel with his knowledge.

A Point of Order. Mr. G. W. Russell asked the Speaker to rule as to whether it was. competent for an hon.. member in bringing down a recommendation from tho Public Accounts Committee that certain estimates should be passed, to discuss one particular item at this 1 stage. If it was • open to tho - Chairman of tho Committee to discuss item, it might be open, to other members to discuss any item in connection with the whole of the Estimates returned by the committee. The MIME MINISTER said that he did not propose to anticipate.tho Speaker's ruling, but ho considered that it WoS neither advisable nor desirable that members, should discuss particular items at that stage. But this was rather byway of personal explanation by tho hon. gentleman. Mr. Ngata: Lot him do it in Committee of Supply. Plenty of time. Tho Prime Minister said that Mr. Hine had been speaking as member for Stratford. It would have been better had he made a personal explanation. Mr, RUSSELL said that the hon. gentleman had a right to discuss the question raised when speaking in the.Financial Debate, but that a long discussion might arise out of this' particular item which the hon. gentleman was discussing. Mr.. W. C. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) submitted that it would bo a very small concession to allow the hon. gentleman to make a personal explanation. •Tho Hon. W. ERASER said that it was customary in the House to afford a member feeling himsslf aggrieved an early opportunity of setting himself right. Ho thought the hon. gentleman would bo wise in simply saying whether he had benefited or not by this sum of .£SOO. .•Mr. T. M. WILFORD (Hutt) said- that if the hon. member were allowed to make a speech at this stage, on an item of the Estimates, later on any hon. member would -bo able to raise a point-of order to prevent discussion on this item on the ground that it was a past debate. Ho suggested that tho hon. member should move the adoption of the coniinittee's-re-cpmmendations and afterwards make a personal explanation. The SPEAKER ruled that any member had a right to discuss items of tho Estimates reported on. Mr. Hine was in order. Practically Gagged, Mr. HINE, resuming, said that he had been practically-gagged on. this subject . for the past fortnight-because the Estimates, on being brought down, had been referred at once to the Public Accounts Committee. This had prevented his rais- • IhT, x? y flues , t c lo .' l ot Personal honour in h> 110 5r S3 - U ik was the general desire of the House that -he should'let .themat* ter go meantime, ho was willing- to do rLJff 1 * 11 n lO mttw toforo -to rt tte ( l thcre '"?*>' *>me revelations ! « ft? wn - y ln w kch witnesses at tho Hine inquiry had been nnlf """>' «*« had bee tt a \, ! ending between Sir Joseph Ward's Government and the gentlemen who were charged somo two years previously with misdemeanour The .understanding "„ t ft? af'-.-Skwwtt. who was engaged by these litigants, and the Government that m case Mr. Symcs, Mr. Kenncdv Macdonald, and Mr_Kaihau did not p„ T their egal charges, the Government m,uls n? l,„ ™ B fi-- P, 4 ,,"'" 3 fto wll ° le truth of tho matter, and the account was paid by the Government on April 3 or 10 last -J member: Did you,get anything of it' •Mr.i Hine: I got none of it. He went on to state that on April 10 his lawver Mr, Myers, wrote on his behalf to "Sir Joseph \\ard. Previously he (Mr. Hine) had communicated with. Mr. -Myers regarding the contents of the letter. An Important Letter. The letter is from Messrs. 8011, Gully Bell, and Myers to the Right Hon. Sir Joseph Ward, Bart., re tho Hine charges and is dated. April 10. Following is 'the text:— "Since March IC, when I called on yum at the Government buildings at your request, I have, as arranged, communicated with Mr. Hine, and your proposal lias received careful consideration. I told Mr. Hino that you had stated to mo:— "(1) That when- somo suggestion was made (though not by Mr. Hino personally), after tho Parliamentary inquiry, that the Government should pay his expenses, you expressed the view that no such payment should .be made. "(2) That you had since considered .the matter, and found that in the case . of some other Parliamentary inquiries the costs had been paid by the Government. "(3) That you had now oomo to the " conclusion that that course, namely, payment by the Government of tho costs, should be adopted in this case. "(-4) That you had stated to me that if Mr. Hino's bill of costs were now sent to tho Government, tho amount would be paid. "(5) That under your proposal tho costs of all, or somo of, the other partio3 who appeared or were represented before tho Parliamentary Committees would also bo paid by the Government. "Mr. Hin.e, in. making hia charges, ' and in his subsequent proceedings, was, actuated wlely by a regord for

the public -Interests. In these same interests ho considers that it would bb improper for the Government to pay the costs of the persons against whom tho charges _ wero made, and that it would be his duty to strenuously oppose any such payment. Under theso ciraimstances he could not see his way to accept the invitation to apply to tho Government for reimbursement of his own costs. - "(Signed) M. MYERS." Mr. Russell: What was tho date of that letter? Mr. Hine: April 10, 1912. ■ Mr. Russell: Pardon me, Sir Joseph Ward was not in office then. Who Made the Payment? Mr. Hine stated that the matter was referred to Cabinet by Mr. Buddo on March 27. The Cabinet minute had no Minister's initials, but was signed by Mr. Andrews, Clerk to tho Executive Council. On the following day, Sir Joseph Ward left office. The actual payment was mado after tho Mackenzie Government camo into office, but it was sanctioned by tho Ward Government.

MEMBER FOR AWARUA.

AN EXPLANATION. "IMPLICATION NOT JUSTIFIED." When Sir Joseph Ward rose to speak, Mr. Speaker called him as "The Right Honourablo tho Prime Minister," and then "Sir Jcseph Ward," (Laughter.) Mr. Witty: Coming events. Sir Joseph WARD (Awarua) said he wished to take tho opportunity of pointing out to the House tho inconvenient and unfair procedure that the new order of sectional reports entailed upon tho member for Stratford or himself, as there was an implication that something wrong had been dono in dealing with the.matter. He understood 1 that there was no exception token to the items of the account. Mr. Hino: Exception is taken to tho whole payment. Sir Joseph Ward: There is no exception taken to tho amount, and tiie committee passed it on the Estimates without a. division on the item. ; ' Hon. W. Eraser: Because t'-.ey can't help themselves. Sir Joseph Word maintained that no exception was taken to the amount. Air. Hine: No exception was taken, to individual items, but to tho total ijnount. I said it was an improper payment, and I say still it is an improper payment. Sir Joseph Ward said he wanted to explain the position because he recognised how easy it was to level an implication at anybody. When tho Hine •'"■arges were made 1 if would be remembered that no charge of any kind was m?.do against the Government. The charges weio u-ado against individuals. Mr. Hine: Not in the Elaxbourno ctsc. Sir Joseph Ward said he referred to the charges that came up in tho House. Mr. Hino: They were included in tho Hino charges. Sir Joseph Ward reiterated f'at Hie .charges made in the House wero made against individuals. When tho question ot representation of the Government before the committee came up for discussion by the Government, the Government arrived at tho 'Conclusion that cs no charge was mado against tho Government, tho Government was not called upon to ,be represented at the committee, and no one was appointed to represent the Government in connection with the Hino charges.

"As a Matter of Honour," Just about the time-.the charges were to bo considered by the Committee, one of tho members, against whom tho charges were made, called upon. Mr. Skerrett, and asked bun to represent him before the Committee. Mr. Skerrett had important work at Auckland and at Wangautii, and he was of opinion that, to say the least of it, there was doubt as to his being able to obtain his fees'. Ho saw tho Minister for Justice and in tho course of conversation with him he informed the Minister that these gentlemen desired to retain him, but that unless he were sure he would get his fees he could not undertake to represent them. As the then Minister had informed tho Public Accounts Committee, he said that he thought it was not an unreasonable proposal that tho Government should see that the fees wore paid, and that ho would consult his colleagues. Tho matter was mentioned to Ministers, and it was agreed that in the event of Mr. Skerfirm failing to obtain their fees, the Government would ho responsible for any amount in reason. In tho course of the investigation the solicitor representing Mr. Hine (Mr. M. Myers) asked him (Sir Joseph Ward) if tho Government would pay the costs of both sides, and his (Sir Joseph Ward's) reply on the spur of the moment was "No." The Government had undertaken not to pav the fees without any conditions at all," but conditionally upon Mr. Skerrett not being able to obtain them from his clients. After the inquiry Mr. Skerrett rendered his accounts to his clients on January 13, 1911. Shortly after that Mr. Skerrett went lb England, and he was awp.v for 12 months. Before he (Sir Joseph Ward) went out of office—prior to March 16,1912— Mr. Skerrett, upon his return, called upon him and told him that tho accounts rendered by him to his three clients had not been paid. As a matter of honour Hie Government were bound to pay them The total amount was ,£GS9 ss. 3d. Exception was taken to two amounts in respect of Messrs. Symc and Kaihau against whom the Committee had found and the amount was reduced by £18,5 s 9 ' 3d., making the amount £nOi. '

Mr. Hine's Turn. Ho (Sir Joseph Ward) immediately sent for Jlr. Myers, counsel for Mr. nine, and reminded him of tho conversation as to the payment by the Government of his costs. -I told him" he said, "tho Go •! ernment had reconsidered the matter, and had decided to pay portion of tho accounts ° f . Vi 6 ° her , s ! d ?- * askc(l JJ r- Myers whether he had been paid bv Mr. Hino for his costs. Ho replied that he W been paid a part of the amount. I 61 , id I tho .«=»t «• tair thing would bo that Mr. Hinos costs should bo paid bv the Government also I asked Mr. Myers whether ho would communicate with Mr Hiae, and let mo have a reply." Two days later tho letter which had boon road by Mr. Hine came.to hand. As soon as it was known that tho Government had to pay Mr. Skerrett's fees, payment of the other side's account was offered. No distinction was made. Mr. Hino: You didn't guarantee mino Sir Joseph Ward: We hadn't guaranteed any. Mr. Malcolm: Didn't you guarantee tho expenses of some of the other litigants? ...Sir Joseph Ward: I recognise that a little capital is being mado out of this. I know that perfect.lv woll. He would accept full responsibility for what he had done, because ho boliovcd it was Tight, and he believed that under ordinary conditions eicoption would not bo taken to it. "No Ulterior Motive," The course was such' as any Government ought to follow. In the interests of the country, it was fair that the men charged should bo allowed to present their caso fully to the comrnittee, It «-aa thought

desjrablo that fiiey should bo represented by' counsel, find that tho Government should pay the accounts if Mr. Skerrett could not recover them from his clients. Tho arrangement between Mr. . Skerrolt and the Oovernincut was a perfectly honourable one, but tho Government would not pay two aniouutu in respect of two of tho members against whom the committee had found. Ho pointed out that no Minister ever-signed a Cabinet minute— they wero always signed by the Secretary, Mr.'J. 1\ Andrews—so tliat tho implication that tho Authority was sent out from Cabinet in some irregular way was not justified. People who did not know tho routine might imagine that something wrong had been done.- In tho Hine inquiry no 1 obstacles wero placed by the Uovernment in the way of tho fullest investigation, and the- Government had no ulterior motive, no motive of any kind, in allowing those gentlemen to bo represented by counsel, but to see- that their case was fully and fairly presented. Before the authority was sanctioned, the Governmnt offered to pay Mr. Hine's expenses also.

PRIME "MINISTER SPEAKS.

"AN IMPROPER PAYMENT." ' ME,' HINE HAD NOT ACCEPTED A PENNY. line PRIME MINISTER said that it was absolutely incorrect to say that tho matter had been brought up in order that political capital might be mado oat of it. On the contrary, for a reason that ho would give, ho thought it a pity that this discussion had taken place. A very awkward precedent was being established, and ono that would require an amendment of tho Standing Orders to meet the case. It was quite evident that Parliament could not be allowed to discuss tho Estimates twice over. It would bo an improper thing to allow Parliament to discuss tho Estimates on tho report of the Public Accounts Committee, and to discuss them afterwards in tho usual way. Ho recognised that this wns an unusual occasion. It was not so much -whether the charge was a proper one or not, or whether it was on tho usual scale. It was not at that juncture so much a question as to whether the payment should havo been made, but it wns a question whether tho member for Stratford should be allowed to clear himself from tho imputation which had been made against him. Tho Consolidated Estimates wero now public property, and very properly so, but 'an impression had got abroad that part of tho payment under discussion had been made to Mr. Hine. It 'was a right and proper thing that Mr; Hino should have an opportunity of saying/that ho had not accepted a penny. Sir Joseph Ward: Hoar! hear! I would havo confirmed that if he had made a statement on the first day of the session. The .Prime Minister said that it had been made clear that Mr. Hino had been given an opportunity of having his expenses paid by tho Government, and had refused. That was tho actual position, so far as Mr. Hine was concerned." Tho other Eoint was as to whether this money should avo been paid by tho Government on account of the people. "I say," said the Prirao Minister, "that it was an improper payment. I would almost go the length of saying that it was an iniquitous payment. Public money should not have been used for this purpose. Then if it had /to :be paid, why should they wait for two years beforo paying it? Sir Joseph Ward: Because.l was never asked to pay it. -, Mr. Massey: I understand that when the.inquiry was on you were asked to guarantee that if the parties concerned did not pay their solicitors who were looking after their interests before the Parliamentary Committee, payment would bo made by tlio Crown. Sir Joseph Ward: What wo undertook was that the fees should be paid if tho parties did not pay. Mr. Massey: I say again that it was an improper payment, and I say, further, that if the money had not been paid up to tho present time, it would not havo been paid now. Sir Joseph Ward: That would havo been breaking on honourable undertaking. Details of the Account, Mr. Massey: "I say it should not have boon paid." Tho guarantee, ho continued, should not havo been given! If no guaranteo had been given the payment should not have been made. Mr. Massey then detailed tho items in tho bill of costs which had-been paid as follows: —Kennedy Macdonald, .£BB • 6s. 6d. and ■ JEIM Gs. Gd.i Symes, .£B9 7s. 6d.; Bailey, and others, £16 9s. 6d.; newspaper (Stratford), .£62 Is. 6d.; Kaihau, .£lO2 7s. 3d. and .£l5B IBs. 6d. Total, He understood from remarks that had been made—he wns not a member of the Public Accounts Committee—that this total had afterwards been cut down by' tho legal firm to .£5Ol-, the amount which appeared on the Estimates, and which had been paid. He regretted exceedingly that ; this payment had been made, and considered that the, Government had made a very serious mistake in making it or in entering into tho guaranteo to pay • it. Sir JOSEPH WARD asked wliy ' tho Government had 'never raised tho question when, the same thing had occurred in another case, and money was paid to a lawyer opposed to the Government. A Government member: Who was it? Sir Joseph Ward: To Mr. Atkinson, for the tlefenco of ,Meikle. (Laughter.)

REMARKS BY MR. FISHER. . "UNFAIRLY PUT ON THE ESTIMATES." The Hon. P. M. B. FISHER (Minister for Marine) said that a curious feature about tho transaction was that Mr. Myers had asked him when! the committee was sitting whether the Government would pay his expenses, and the right- honourable gentleman refused. The AttorneyGeneral had said to tho committee that morning that he had entered into an arrangement to pay Mr. Skcrretfs charges before tho committee sat. Could the honourable gentleman wonder that members regarded this item with a degree of uncertainty? At tho time,the Government refused to pay Mr. Myers's expenses, tho Government hod agreed to pay Mr. Skerrett's fees before the committee sat. Mr. Isitti'They hadn't done anything of tho land. Mr. Fisher mentioned that ho had stated the case fairly. Mr. Isitt: You have grossly misrepresented tho Prime Minister. Sir Joseph Ward: You have absolutely misrepresented me, as I shall explain after yon finish. Mr. Fisher: I ask the honourablo gentleman to affirm my statement that when tho Hino Committee was sitting ho was asked by Mr. Myers if ho would pay both sides' expenses. Your answer was "No." And at the time the honurable gentleraau made that answer, the Government of which ho'was head, had committed itself to pay the expenses of one side. Thero is no misrepresentation about that. 11 i? a fact. We have heard it urged before tho committee this morning that it is usual for the Crown, or not uncommon tor the Crown, to pay the expenses of both sides in certain cases—where impecimdosity is alleged, where a man has no means with which to defend himself. But Mr. Skerrett informed the committee in las evidence this morning that accounts were sent out to Messrs. Kaihau, Mncdonald, and Symes, and the-v ignored the accounts. No effort was ma'do to recover them. Mr. Skerrett stated that that was not tho custom of his firm. Then Mr. Skerrett went to En"land, and shortly after his return in January ho approached tho Government, and asked for the amount. And tho day before the Ward Government left office they voted .£504. Mr. Fisher declared that the item was unfairly put on the Estimates. Anyone reading it would suppose from reading it that Mr. nino received money. Sir JOSEPH WARD said ho had been misrepresented. He had said quite clearly that Mr. Skerrett had seen tho then Minister for Justice and told him that one of tho men against whom charges were mado had mado application to ream him. As Mr. Skcrrolt had infornml ho Public Accounts Committee, ho said ho was not disposed to accept the commission, because ho was not sure whether ho could collect his fees. Tho Minister for Justice emild not sav what the Government would do ;\nd he ffmsult.eil liis colleagues. The Government aarperl to pay only in the event of the ntlip.i-s not paying. Mr. Nojworthr.; Why didn't you tank* L tb.om, paji

Sir Joseph Ward: I didn't know wo would be called upon to pay any of tho costs incurred by Mr. Skerrett. I hadn't tho remotest idea'what tho nmount of tho charges was likely to be. no added that when Mr. Skerrett returned tho Government were, as n matter of honour, bound to see that his account was paid. THE MEMBER FOR AVON. "HONOUR OP PARLIAMENT." Mr G. W RUSSELL (Avon) said that tlio statement made by the Prime Minister that the payment was an iniquitous one needed examination. The importance of the nine charges was in that they attacked the honour of Parliament. It at once became the duty of the executive to retain counsel, not. for the purpose of deiending the individuals concerned, but to defend tho honour of Parliament. Political capital had been made out of it and a deliberate attempt had been made to discredit the Ward Government, .there hnd been imported into this matter an amount of party bitterness that was unprecedented. He argued that the guarantee to pay the costs could quito regularly bo mado and likened the payment to tho modern movement for the appointment of a public defender in the criminal courts. (This parallel provoked (tensive laughter in tho Ministerial benches.) MR. LEE'S VIEWS. A CONTRAST IN EFFECT. Mr. E. P. LEE (Oamnru) said tho hon. member for Avon had missed the point ot the.inquiry. Sir Joseph Ward had said that there was no need for the Government to be represented, because there was no charge against the Government. Ao counsel was therefore retained on behalf of the. Government, but the late Attorney-General had told the Commit teo that the principle actuating him in giving an undertaking to bo responsible for tho costs, was that impecunious persons charged with offences before a Select Comrnitteo had a right to proper defenco. Sir John Fmdlay had practically admitted that a conclusive agreement had been eorno to for the payment of Mr. Skerrett s fees. An honourable understanding between a man and the Ministry was a contract m. effect, and tho energy displayed by Mv. Skerrett in endeavouring to collect from, his clients might be less than it would have been had he not known that ho had the Government his back. There had been an offer to pay Mr. Hino's costs,, but if Mr. Hkerrett had collected has fees from his clients, would the Government havo offered to pay Mr. Hint's | costs? He could not understand, however, why the Government should undertake to pay costs without knowing what the amount should bo unless they know tliut there would bo somo advantage to them. It would have been better it' tlie Government had been represented br couiiFol; this was what had actuallv hap*pened in an indirect way. PARLIAMENT RESPONSIBLE. ! THE COMMITTEE'S FINDING. The Hon D. BUDDO (Kaiapoi) deprecated what he descrihod as Mr. Lee's "small debt court" method of aspersing Che Government. In point of fact Parliament had. ordered the inquiry, and Parliament was responsible for it. (Laughter.) Mr; Okey: What was the finding? Mr. Buddo: There was no finding against these gentlemen. (Laughter.) Ono Native .member was censured by tho House, and this Nativo member had showii that ho knew nothing of the proprieties in such matters. The Prime Minister: He knew perfectly well.. A Government member: He was childlike and bland. Mr. Buddo insisted that tho payment was a perfectly proper one, and it was a great pity the charges were ever made.

REMARKS BY MR. HINDMARSH. A STRONG INDICTMENT. Mr. A. H. HINDMARSH (Ellington South) said he wanted to clear up one point. An agreement seemed to liavo been made to guarantee Mr. Skcrrcit's costs before the committee sat, and while the committeo was sitting the Government refused to guarantco Mr. Hino's costs. 'That mado a strong indictment against Sir Josenh Ward. Assuming everything in favour of Sir JosopU Ward—that ho did not know that Dr. Findlay had mado this arrangement—it was his duty, so soon as he discovered it, within a few days, to go to Mr. Myers and correct his previous answer. It might have made an alteration of tho conduct of Mr. Hinc's case' if he had known from the beginning that his costs would he paid. Ho did not see how' Sir Joseph Ward could get out of this position. Assuming everything in his favour, it was Sir Joseph Ward's bounden duly after agreeing to help one side to go to tho other side, especially as he v,as a public man dispensing other people's money, and say what had been done.

MEMBER FOR WAIRARAPA. TWO BIRDS KILLED WITH ONE STONE. Mr. AV. C. BUCHANAN. (Wairarapa) said that the appointment of counsel to represent tho Government would have been an admission that evidence might transpire which would injuro them, but by giving this undertaking two birds were killed .with, one stone. The Government were in effect defended by counsel for the defence. The payment was, he thought,' reprehensible, and it should never havo been made. Sir JOSEPH WARD reiterated bis statement that Mr. Hine had never made any charges directed against tho Government. Ho explained that he had not regarded the undertaking by the Government to -Mr. Skerrett to pay his costs as a commitment unless and.until ho found ho could not collect Ms' costs from his clients. So soon as Mr. Skerrett claimed against tho Government, he (Sir Joseph Ward) advised Mr. Myers of tho fact, and offered to pay at least a portion of Mi. Hino's costs. "WASTE OF TIME" SAYS MR. LAURENSON. • "TIKED OP THE WHOLE SHOW." Mr.. G. LAURENSON (Lyttelton) said tbat tho debate was an illustration of the necessity for an Oliver Cromwell, with a bafctleaxo La his hand, to clear tho whole show up. Eighty men had wasted two hours in discussing a question which would be discussed ad nauseum when the Estimates came up. Meantimo men were clamouring for work, children for education, nnd the country for reform. Nero fiddling while Borne was burning was a trifle as compared with this debate. Such waste of time made him tired of the wholo show. He had been elected fivo times, each time with an increasing majority, and supposed ho could bo elected five times more, but if ever anything mado him inclined to throw up the whole thing it was such a debate as had occurred that day.

The Hon. W. PHASER said that it was refreshing to hear the. sentiments uttered by the last speaker. The hon. gentleman had not uttered such protestations against waste of time when ho sat on the Government side of the House. Circumstances altered cases.

MR. HINE REPLIES.

A WORD TO THE MEMBER FOR LYTTELTON. FACTS THAT SPEAK VOLUMES. Mr. Hine, in replying, said that he did not propose to deal with tho merits or demerits of tho Hine charges. The fact that he was still in his place in the House, and tho change of parties spoke volumes. Ho wanted to say a word to the member for Lyttelton. " Ho remembered tho high concern expressed by the'latter for tho honour of members and ex-members two years earlier. Yet now, because ho (Mr" Hine) wished to put his honour right before the country to-day, it "'as. "a waste of time," according to tho member for Lyttelton. There ns no trace of (lie excited tones in which Mr. Lauvenson used fo raiso his voice two yours earlier, when the Mine charges were made. Mr. Hine expressed liis' srrotitudfi to Mr, Hindnian-h for what M had Mid, hut he, roccigi)i««d tho nbilttv .with which, liis counsel had condusted the.

case. Had his charges l»en guaranteed ho would not have had any desire to chango his counsel. In one particular the ex-Primo Minister (Sir Joseph Ward) had been very unfair, and that was in repeating a conversation concerning his (Mr. Hinc's) private affairs. Ho referred to a statement that his legal account had not been paid up to'' date. Sir Joseph Ward assured Mr. Hine that he had not intended to brijig his private alfairs into the discussion. Mr. Hine: I recognise that you did not do it intentionally. Ho felt it due to himself to state that on March 1G tho sum of Jillj had been paid oil tho account. Since then the wholo amount of •£325 had been liquidated. He had taken the first opportunity that presented itself of making himself' right in the eyes of tho country, and he considered that ho had only done himself justice. Sir Joseph Ward again disclaimed any desire to bring Mr. Hinc's private affairs into the discussion. He was quite willing that the reference should bo omitted from tho records, and ho had.no doubt that the press would do tho same. The committee's recommendations wero adopted, and it was granted the extension of one week for which it had applied.