FINANCIAL DEBATE.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1520, 16 August 1912, Page 6

FINANCIAL DEBATE.

COMMENDATION OF THE BUDGET. PROUD OP HIS PARTY. Tho Financial Debate was resumed at 2.50 p.m. Mr. C. K. Wilson, who had moved the adjournment, gave place to Mr. G. Hunter (tho member for Waipawa). . , ' Mr. G. HUNTER (Waipawa) expressed his gratitude to members of the late Ministry for. tho kindness with • which they had treated him. The member for Avon, in accusing the member for Thames and others, had reminded'him of Snton reproving sin.' The member for Lyttclton had accused Mr.'Fisher of inconsistency, yet'-(hiring'.the Tecent election campaign Air. Laurenson, an ardent Prohibitionist, had taken the •platform-oil behalf of a brewer.-'" Ho -was also. ah' ardent" leaseholder, arid'he' had taken 'the platform-on behalf of a freeholder. ;: : Tho time~had arrived when the'Legislative Council ougnt to bo ended or mended.. The country worild'no longer tolerate it in its present shape. Of'the'Members "in it 28 had been appointed by tho continuous Ministry, three by the Mackenzie' Government, and one by the Massey Government. He would like to see the elective principle applied to the Legislative Council, as was proposed. After twenty years of talking about it the continuous Government had brought' down a Local Government Bill. it was so cut about by the conference— l — Mr. Wilson: Ifs mother wouldn't know it. •"-.' '"'

Mr. Hunter agreed that, it was so modified that practically there was' no' Local Government Bill in existence. If the Government gave effect-to half the reforms sot out in tho Budget they would have achieved a great deal. He was pleased to note that the Government proposed to make changes in tho mode of assessing valuations, so that tho man making the improvements should have the benefit of them. ' It was certainly right that the persons most affected, tho owners of land, should bo represented on; the Assessment Board, and the Ministerial veto should be abolished. He proposed to speak of a subject in which ho might be said to be somewhat personally interested—the increase .in 'the- graduated land tax. Mr. Wilford: It won't hurt you. Mr. Hunter: The honourable member for ITutt cays it won't hurfine; I think it will hurt mo. Mr. Wilford: I'll show you how to get out of it. Mr. Hunter said he was very pleased to know that the member for Hutt could help people to get out of trouble, who; without his aid, might get into it. He thought this new tax would press very heavily on -landowners, who already paid a great deal in. taxation. ' He' urged that owners of big estates ought to bo given somo reasonable time tp unload, otherwise thoTe vrould bo very many men on these estates ! thrown out.of employment, He was pleased to notice that tho Government proposed to repeal tho Second Ballot Act. ■ ' Mr. Russell:.' Why don't they do it before the Egmont election?

Mr. Hunter said tho' Prime Minister, lial already answered a sirnilaV question. The Government was quite justified in not attempting to repeal at once the Second Ballot Act, which might prove a contentious matter. -Alter dealing with. Hie 'Native land question, Mr. Hunter said ho hoped tho Government would give road facilities which would tend to lighten the heavy burden of the backblocks settler's life. The Budget appealed to him as a sound and business-like production, which would make more comfortable tho lot of the peoplo in New Zealand. • ■ ■' Mr. Davey: What about the graduated land tax. . Mr. Hunter said that he personally had lio objection (to the graduated land,tax, because be believed the money derived from it could bo spent for tho "benefit of tho people. Ho was not surprised that members of the Opposition found themselves at a loss in criticising it. Mr. 'Witty:.lt's our own work. Mr. Hunter said that if that was so he was sorry they had not .put it into effect. He was proud to belong- to a Government whiehjiad brought down sucli a Budget as that which the Minister for I'iuanc had read to the House. There was a pause when Mr. Hunter concluded nt 3.25 p.m. Mr. Nosworthv, Junior Government Whip, was first to rise, but he gave way to Mr. Wilford, member for Hutt, who rose as the Speaker was putting the question. MR, WILFORD'S ATTACK, "ILLUSIONS" AND "PATCHWORK." Miv T. M. WILFORD (Hutt) said that the Budget was the greatest political illusion ever known. Dr. Pomare: We stole it! Mr. Wilford: The hon. gentleman «ays that they stolo it. Dr. Pomare: According to you. Mr. Wilford said that tho Government with its Budget reminded him of the man who stolo his neighbour's pig and gave tho trotters to the pcoi. Mr. Okoy. You want the (rotters.

Mr. Wilford accused tho Government of borrowing .£BOO,OOO from tho Post Office at one-quarter per cent, lower than it should havo been borrowed.

The Hon. R. H. Rhodes: That is not so. Mr. Wilford persisted in his statement, amidst further denials, and declared that tho Government had blundered.

Tho lion. Dr. Fouiare: You are blundering now!

Mr. Wilford (sarcastically): Tho -tu quoquo form of argument 'is not good enough for an M.D. of Chicago. (Opposition laughter.) Dr. Pomaro: Good enough for you' Mr. Wilford declared Mat tho Government had taken the refuge of the man who did not know his own. mind in the matter of racing permits. They had asked the member for Waipawa to bring in a Bill. According to the Minister for Finance, there were only four methods open to a Minister for Finance—to increase taxation, to decrease expenditure, to continue borrowing, and to bring within limits the expenditure of borrowed money. Then the Minister said: Let us borrow n million and threequarters and bo joyful. A Government mem her: Do vou object to it?

Jlr. Wilford: No; but it is lon small, anil everybody knows it, nnil ho knows it. The Government had established lliis principle in this country of lending money to the people on approved ?eairitv. By withdrawing this money from the marketi the new Minister would bring

about a financial crisis in this counlry. Mr. Isitt: tfuup kitchen*.

l\lr. Wilford admitted that the Government would brin;,' cardial into the country. Capital had already tied from here, because capital went whore the rato uf interest was higher, He claimed that New Zealand stocks were high in credit in London, but the avenues for investment were so many now that the rate rise for Government securities. Jf a bureau were opened in London to receive money at 4.V per cent to be lent by the Government on freehold securities, much money would be made available in New Zealand. One of tho causes of financial stringency was the banking ring—only five- banks operating—protected by our banking legislation. It was ono of the most cruel monopolies in the country. lie maintained that the Graduated Laud Tax proposed in the Budget did not mean what it said, because alongside of it must bo read flic speeches of the Loader of tho Government as to too high valuations, ami the proposal in the Budget to make a. change in the method of assessing tho taxable value of land. It would mean that the taxable value would bo reduced, and the taxation would bo really less. Tho laud policy of the Government would raise the rate of interest to everybody and the graduated tax would never make tbo large owners disgorgo and break tip their holdings. He declared that the proposals for the control of juvenile delinquents were ridiculous. He likewise characterised as absurd and farcical the workers' housing schemes in the- Budget. He declared also that' the Government wanted to kill the Arbitration, Act, and their proposals would have that effect. ■ The members of the Government held differing views on compulsory arbitration, but most of thorn did not want it. They were in the position of bearing an intolerable toothache with great fortitude —rather than go to tho dentist's. The political patch work would never cure industrial unrest. The Government seemed (o think that labour troubles had "kind of broken out like a rash." It was not "labour unrest," but democratic evolution, which was coming surely, and showing itself in. every country of tho world. He believed in tho freehold—it was a good taxable asset — but he did not believo that any l.i-P. tenant would be ass enough to buy it. Ho was going' to vote to give Jiime the chance when tho proposal canio up. Tf the Government wished to save money, let them abolish the Justico Department. It could be done quite easily by handing the work over, to the Public Trust Office. This would save thousands a year, and it could bo done quite easily. Ho believed tho Public Service'reform scheme would be one of tho worst things that could ever come to this country. The Commission could not get away from influence—political influence, club influence. He believed that tho Upper House was an expensive' superfluity and that it should bo abolished. In any case he declared the preferential system of voting would be utterly' ineffective and exceedingly, cumbersome. '

PLAIN SPEAKING.-MEMBER-FOR ASHBURTON. Mr, W.NOSWORTHY (Asliburton) complimented' the 'Minister for' Finance on the clear and concise-statement ho had given of the country's financial position. The member for Hurt hod for once taken his foot off the soft,pedal—the instrument was broken, lie maintained that' the Government had bceii honest and straightforward in all its proposals, and especially about licensing. Tho Prime Minister had said clearly that the Government would not introduce any.licensing Bill this year. ' "Do you expect the Government," he ashed, "to bring down all these Bills and pass them in a few weeks? ... How did you mess and mudtllo about with licensing matters for 21 years? You have nothing to show for your record except dissension and disgust of the people in regard to theso matters. Yon have brought these things on your heads not by our actions, but your own." He' stated also that tho rate of interest was not going to bo raised by tho Government proposals. It had already risen, before tho Government came into power, as tho cost of tho last loan showed clearly enough. It had been the game of tho Liberal party to bump values up to too high a level in order to get taxation from the people. That was «n evil, and a proposal to remedy that was only a proposal to bs just. If the member for Hutt were to go about the country preaching taxation of improvements, ho would never see Parliament'again. The member for Avon had blown the fog horn, which showed tho distress his party was in regarding tho Budget. The accusation of the member for Avon that the Government had .stolen all their policy was monstrous. On the contrary, the late Government had stealthily appropriated tho Reform party's proposals and taken them up, but the Reform party's'programme as now outlined was tho same on which they had fought tho election. Ho Argued that the "Liberal" Governments had waited long without'remedying the graduated tax iii tho counUry, and had finally brought down a very mild measure. This Government had brought down straightforward proposals at once. Which was the better, profession or action Tie approved tho reform of the Legislative-Council scheme. Railway administration had been carried on'in a way that was "absolutely horrible, and ho therefore believed "that it was wise to import a new general manager. If Hie Govcrnment.prcposed to pav tho new manager ,£IO,OOO a year, ho would support them in it. Tho'new Minister for Railways needed time to put the railways in order. It was a long business to reform a-disgraceful system such as ours. "It took you 20 years to muddle it, lie added. He approved the Budget because of its elevating tone. It was a m i • sedi5 ed i on past Budgets which had been made up of a bombastic parade of figures to gull the people and tickle their can; with sweet things to "ct votes. The Budget told people that tliev must rely on their own resources, and this wis necessary, if we were to make the hbre of the Tacs stronger, more healthy, and more able to deal with tho work of constructing and building an empire. A LABOUR MEMBER. -NOX-PARTY SPEECH. Mr. W. A. VEITCH (Wanganui) said ho proposed to discuss the Budget without reference to party, as other; speakers had done. Ho did not think any system of making railway works could be discovered which would bo an improvement on the co-operative system. He admitted that there were complaints that good men were not allowed to earn as much as .they could, and they had to limit their output accordingly. This did not mean that co-operation was wrong, but that tho method of administering it was weak or faulty. Unfortunately all members must agree with tho statement that strikes were increasing, and that labour unrest was spreading all over the world. He did not think that the cause could be found in. the personnel of the Arbitration Court. . The cause must bo found much deeper down in the social problem 1 and he was sorry that no more radical measure was proposed to improve tho condition ot the workers. Until this was Hone, until the social condition of the workers was very much improved, social unrest would continue, lie was convinced that tho Arbitration Court could not be made more useful until its functions were extended to bring within its purview rings or monopolistic organisations. The Court must havo power to regulate the relation between cost and prices. Ho was sorry to have to say that the Government's proposals for dealing with industrial unrest were not states°maulike. Nor did he approve of the proposals for reform of tho Legislative Council, for the reason that the scheme would stand in the wav of democratic progress, which could best bo served bv the abolition of the Second Chamber. He thought timber rings were forcing up the price of timber, and it would be well if the Government mills would provide timber for workers' dwellings at cost price. He approved the scheme for the erection of workers' homes in the country. The present General Manager of Railways was, he considered, a capable officer. So fur as safe running was concerned, so far as the efficiency of the servile was concerned, the present General Malinger had done wonderful work. He noted that there was a proposal to import a new General Manager, and lie thought there was no need to do anything ot the sort. He could name a down officers who were i|iii(o li!. to manage tho service. It would bo a grave blunder also to hand over the Public Service to a Commissioner. It. would not Ho nwoy with pnlrbnairc, and he m-iiiM-do his beat to prevent (ho appointment being made, In conclusion ho saitl that