IMPREST SUPPLY BILL.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1507, 1 August 1912, Page 6

IMPREST SUPPLY BILL.

" SHORT DISCUSSIONS. MIKADO'S DEATH: AX ADJOURN- .. Mi; NT. 'An Imprest Supply Bill was introduced by Governor's. Stowage at 3.25 p.m. \U'r. P.-LANG-(Jlamiknu) v.-ns appointed Chairman -of Committees for. the day. Oil the motion to go into Committee of MINISTER, said that the" deaths of some, very prominent men. had Dc-curred during the period-of-adjourn-Mprit. It-was the duty of Parliament to rocoamiss: these events and to; pay 'the ' usual tributo of; respect to-the memory of thoso who had died. Also this was the last day of the month, and it was .absolutely necessary to get an Imprest Supply Bill through all its stages. Ho did rot surest limiting or curtailing m any \ wity tf!e disensiiou that members might indulge ill on the Imprest, Supply Bi 1, bift ho would suggest that there should, be 11-0 unnecessary discussion.. Plie Imprest Bill having been dealt, with he won d mow/ the inoHcvn referred to and would then move that-the House adjourn. -v'fyir JOSEPH WARD said, that the pro- ' posal of tho Leader'of the House,was a.

- very proper one. Personally, however, ho - wanted to know what was in (lie Bill before lie could make any promise. If the Bill was the usual Imprest Bill no " difficulty need bo raised. He recognised - that the circumstances were unusual and ; also that: tho meeting of the House had necessarily been delayed until tho last dav of'the month. ' ? The Hon. JAS. ALLEN, said that the • only important increase asked for was a sum of ,£50,000 for .tho Consolidated Fund. > It had been found that the amount/pro- ; vided for.in the last Imprest Supply Bill ■ had been barely sufficient to keep going to tho end of the month. Consolidated ! Fund payments were increasing year li.v I year. The total increases under the Bill I wore £33.000, and the totjj! decreases were j i€3ooo. The Bill provided allocations of . *£744,(500 in the first schedule, and .I'IG,SOO . in the second schedule. 1 Sir Joseph Ward: Docs that'(the in- ■ crease) mean that '.you are going to defer bringing in nil Imprest Supply Bill, for [ a further period than usual ? Tho'Hon. Jas. Allen; No. . Renewal of Loans, > Mr. A. M.' MYERS (Auckland East), j drew the attention of the House (o a L paragraph, published on July 2-1, in a Wellington, newspaper, to the effect that the Minister for Finance had stated that satisfactory arrangements had been made i in London for renewal of nearly all tho loans .falling due by the end of tho , current year. Mr. flyers also quoted nil editorial comment upon the news contained in the paragraph. Mr. Myers " said that lie did not for a moment qucs- ' tion the justification of these remarks, -' but he ventured to say that the para- | graph was contrary '.to fact. : Arrangcj incuts had been' made by-tho pr.evious Government for the renewal of all loans Y maturing during.the current.y.o.n\ 1912-13.' • Tho • balance ajiioujiting .to ,£3,513,20-1, were ; all'maturing-in this Dominion. ..It had ...- been his .pleasure:-to .mako.'arfangenip.nts .• for;the' i''e.i].ewiil-'.of. these' Joans before . leaving., otiicej.",; He; asked ; fhe Minister'i'tir' : Finance-.to ''stiy',. .whcthor.:.tlie. published ' statement :to whibh he had referred w;a»s : accurate ~ or .otherwise.'. Arrangements s had been made .for the renewal ,of-'all . local debentures at 3J'per-.cent., with the , exception of . one loan held by a resident of the., Dominion. Either the present Minister for Finance had made i???ercnt •• arrangements than .lie (Air. Myers) had ■ made, or the newspaper statement was inaccurate. .He-.,i'clt' quilcsurc that the lion, .'gentleman opposite did not.wish .to travel/under false colours. A.member: What was the newspaper. Jlr. Myers: Tin: DoHiS'tox. Mr. Myers's Memory. The Hon. JAMES ALLEN (Minister for .Finance) saiil he had great-pleasure in ; answering the question. In the first in- ■ stance, however, lie was not responsible ■ for what appeared in the newspapers. The'statement, w-as'inaccurate in the re- ■ ' fercncc to the loans maturing in London. ■ He was not sure whether, Mr. Myers Was very sure of what took, place while lie . was in-office. Mr.. Myers" .hod told tho i House that none were coming due. in London, and lie .(Mr.'.'Allen) wculd show ■ that'the lion, gentleman was mistaken. ' Ho (.Mr. Allen) was not aware, that Mr. . ' Myers-, had, made any arrangements for loans coming_due in New Zealand at 3} per cent. Would he confirm the .statement that he had made arrangements for the renewal of all tho loans at 3-J per cent.? ! ' - Mr.. A. M. Myers: All except one. The Hon. J. Allen: Which one? Mr. Myers: One hold by a private individual. . . ■ The/ Hon. .Tames Allen: The honourable gentleman's, memory 'has failed him again. I am very pleased ,to.be'ablo to .say that I have renewed one of ,£BOO,OOO at 3} per cent.. Mr. A. M. Myers: With the Post Office. (Opposition laughter.,) Sir. Allen continued that he had saved the country a quarter per cent, on cCSOOjOOO. As n matter of fact, there was only a small aiyouut coming due in London. during the year—.s3o,3oo—and there was .an amount of .£155,000 coming duo in Australia. Did the honourable gentleman arrange for those? Mr; Myers: No. The Hon. James Allen: I thought you had renewed them all. But, he said, ho ■ ,had found no- arrangement made,,with'the Post 'Office,by his predecessor. In respect of - the other amounts negotiations . wore . going on with the holders in London and Australia, and tho negotiations were proceeding satisfactorily. .. Mr. A. M. MYERS stated, tjiat he had had an interview "with, the Secretary of the Post Oliice, at which, it was distinctly understood that, owing to the condition of the' money'market, all- tho loans maturing this year were to bo renewed at 3J per cent. He believed that in making that arrangement he was doing only what was v fair in the interest of everybody. He re- . gretted indeed to- learn from the Minister for. Finance that he had beaten the Sec- ' Tetary of the Post Ofiice down a quarter per cent. The Hon. T, MACKENZIE (Egmont) said he wished ,to point out that in reducing the amount of interest depositors were to receive-.— — The Hon. J. Allen: No, lio. The lion. T. Mackenzie: If you tako .£BOO,OOO from the post office you can't pay them the interest the. present Gov- ' ernmeut promised on the hustings to pay (hem—s per cent. He also contradicted tho statement that had been made that the late Government left a great accumulation of work. In actual fact the ac- ' I cumulation was a very small percentago of the. total work, and consisted mainly of work which the Government thought 1 it should not do before its permanency : was. assured. | Tho Hon. I?. H. RHODES (PostmasterGeneral) said -ho had found no record 1 , of any arrangement mode for the renewal [ of the loan at 3J per cent. He (Mr. ; Rhodes) was. glad to boi able to let the ' Treasurer have the money nt 3} per cent, and the depositors would not suffer -by 'it. Purchase of Estates. Mr. T. BUXTON (Temuka) referred to a statement tlmt had appeared in the Timaru "Herald" regarding tho purchase of two estates, ".Mount Nessinsr," in. Canterbury, and "Sherendon" in Hawke's Bay. He claimed (hat Mount Nessing Estate was purchased by the lato Government three days before the division was taken. The Hon. W. F. MASSEY (Prime Min- [ istcr) said that three days after ho took office lie received tho documents relat- . ing to the purchase for signature and'approval.- and the money was found by F the Minister for Finance. The Hon. T.. MACKENZIE (Egmont) s said the old Cnbinet had-approved of I the purchase, and had obtained the cs- - tates at a very reasonable price. i $ir JOSE'PH WARD (Awarua) said that I' in dealings between the Minister for Fi- ■ nance and the postmaster-General, ; it was the . clear duty . ot the - Postmaster-General • to • protect - the post • office. And it would be- found I on inquiry that for some months past • 3J per cent, was the,rate at which moneys were borrowed by tho Treasurer from (he , Post Ofiice. Why had the I'ost Office I, been forced down a quarter per cent.? ■ The effect would lie to divert money I from the Post Office Savings Bank into i private institutions. He very tnuch doubted n-hether this lower rate ta< al- • lowed with tho frea will of the secretary i for th«! Post Office. His Minister Jo*

Finance must admit that ho could not j get. .iSOO.OOO privately at 31 pi-r cent. Why had there been a reduction? Tim 1I"oii. W. 11. ili'iTies: Nu reduction at all. Sir Joseph Ward said he would rather pay 3J per cent, to the I'ust Office than ti> an outsider. Mr. ,1. ]!. Iliiie: Whv didn't you do it when you were in power? Sir Joseph Ward: The honourable gentleman doesn't know what he is talking about. .Mr. lline: I know all about your actions. Sir Joseph Ward: And 1 know all about your actions, 100. The Hon. JAMES A I.LEX (Minister for Finance) said there hail" been no forcing down at all. The Post Office held tho debentures, and the Government were paying IU per cent, nil the money. On August 1 the debentures would bo renewed at 3J per cent. Sir Jo-eph "Ward had himself created the reserve fund securities, and ho knew that he had been losing t on.them ever since thev came into existence. -.Now ho wanted tho Government to lose another quarter per cent. He (Mr. Allen) had been as anxious t'or the safety of the Post Ofiice as tho Post-master-General. Did honourable members recollect tho old days when the Post Office funds were borrowed at 3 per cent.? Sir Joseph Wind: You protested then. The Hon. J. Alien: Yes. 1 Sir Joseph Ward: And 1 protest liow. I Tho lion. James Allen said tho Ministry F were not going to roll one Department: of ) (ho service to help another. They were I looking to tho stability of all sections, | 1 and to the Treasury just as much as the 1 Post Office. t Sir JOSEPH WABD (Awarua) said "two wrongs don't make a right." But , ho pointed out. that the Government then L borrowed money at 3 per cent, in London. The Hon. J. Allen: Not at par. Sir Joseph Ward- argued (hat now large investments could bo found by the | post .office at more Ihan 3\ per cent.", and [ in (lie investment .of fresh moneys, . iwhethcr fur renewals or not, the rate I of interest should not be forced down. .• Very Satisfactory, ) . Tiie Hon. W. l-\ MASSEY (Prime Minister) said he was pleased to hear the . honourable gentleman admit his.wrnng- • doing. What happenad.was that tho hon- • ourablo gentleman borrowed l'rom tho post office .L'loo,ooo at 31 per cent., aiid then invested the sovereigns in London nt 3J per cent. Now (lie honourable gentleman complained that the Treasury was not going to make a , greater loss than I \ per cent. The transaction had, in fact, l been very satisfactory to tho post office t and to tiie Treasury." t Sir JOSEPH WAIU.) (Awarua) said the t Prime Minister had cast a reflection on > the value of tho gilt-edged securities 1 lodged iu London. j Tiio Hon. ,1. Allen: Nothing of tho [ kind; that is misrepresentation.' Sir Joseph Ward'said ho did not wish . to split straws. It.had been said that . we were making a loss on them. These securities were bound to realise 20s. in ' the pound. He urged again that the Government ought not to have taken from the j post office money at a rate lower than ! the current rate. ' -. Mr, T. M. WILFORD (Hutt) quoted. ' from 'Hansard, with intent to show that I Mr. Masse'y had last year advocated' tho , payment by . the Government of better • interest-to. "tho,•posf:..oflicc.tlian .to "rich. ! meiuin- London." . ' 'I!h,e,(Jlmr, AY.'..ERASER. (Minister for ' . Public- Works) ..snjd an. attempt had. ap- ] paren'tly >be2h' nindo. to-,eland, tho issue, j It miist bo evident that it .was 'an every- ' day occurrence, to allow an investor to • renew a..loan -at the same rate, without J .regard to whether tho into of interest f had gone up in tho meantime. These ; debentures held by the post office had ' been renewed in exactly (lie same way. • The post, office might liavo been able to ■ command on extra -J per cent., but as the > transaction stood it was by no means extraordinary. Mr. Fisher Asks Why? Tho Hon. F. M, B. FISnEK (Minister for Marine) asked why the lata Treasurer had never paid more than 3\ per cent, to '' tho Post Oince. . There were lately somo 1 loans at 34, and a lew at When the late Government had claimed to havo 0 worked a miracle 'of finance ■in raising four-and a. half millions at, i per, cent, in England, did they oiler to .raise tho 1 rate to the Post Offico investors? Again ! and again tho Government had raised loans at higher rates in England than \ were paid lor money borrowed from tiio Post Uttiee. Mr. G. W. KUSSELL (Avon) said it appeared clear enough that Mr. Myers had made arrangements to borrow this money from the Post Ofiice. Mr. Allen: That is not true. _ . Mr. Russell disregarded the interjection, • and said that now the Minister was taking credit for getting the money at a less price. Mr. Allen had been given credit asv a financier for doing what in fact - ho had not done. .This was only part of. tho loud trumpet blowing that had 3 been indulged iu by Conservative papers . throughout New Zealand during' the last t few weeks. Ho claimed also that the f Government were taking undeserved credit for the purchase of two estates, • which purchase had been, in fact, arranged for by the la(« Government. If the ' rate of interest was going up in London, 1 why should-wo be paying tho people in 5 our own country 31 per cent, for the " money borrowed for public works. 5 The Hon. W. F. MASSEY (Prime Min--5 ister) admitted thai, it was quite true " that the purchase of the two estates were carried up to a certain point, very near to completion. But why wcro they not 1 completed? If the then Government had | really desired to promote land settlement ? thev would lui.ve acquired the estates long , ago". Tho Government's land policy j would go on until every man who desired to go on the land could do so. " Mr. A. H. HINDMAKSH, (Wellington 1 South) said that the Sherenden Estate had l- been a bad purchase for the Government, - and that it had been unloaded by its late f owner at too high a price. He hoped a , complete -report would be { furnished tho J House, also, on the line being constructed t between Napier and Gisborne. In his 5 V opinion, that railway should never havo . been undertaken at this time in' the counr try's history. Mr. E. NEWMAN CRnngitikei) f.nid ho r had seen the Sherenden Estate recently, and ho had no hesitation in saying that i it was suitable for and that it was worth what, had been paid for it. ; Mr. G. AY. RUSSELL (Avon) rose .-to answer the question put by the Prime Minister, as to why the late Government j had not completed the purchases. It was I because a new Government, which might . or might not come into office at the meeting of Parliament, which would liav? to bear the financial burden; should havo tho filial decision of .the question of whether the purchase should be made. Tho Bill was then put through all its stuges and passed. THE BILL. | APPROPRIATIONS TOTAL .£761,400; The Imprest Supply Bill passed yes-. > terday provides for appropTiotions total- , ling £"6i, 100. Following are the details: First Schedule. ' The Consolidated~Fund 500,000 The Public Works Fund 200,000 - Opening up Crown Lands for Sot--1 .tlemcnt Account 6,000 ) The National Endowment Account 2,000 ' The Lands for Settlement Act count 2,000 0 The State Forests Account 2,500 1 The State Coal-mines Account ... 2"> 0110 The Scenery Preservation Account ' 2,000 . The Wcllington-Hult Railway and c Road Improvenient Account ... 500 . The Railways Improvements Account 3,000 - The Native Land Settlement Account 100 \ The Waihou and Ohineniuri f , Rivers Improvement Aceouut 1,500 714,C00 (. Second Schedule. - The Government Insurance Ae- , count 7,000 s The .Government Accident Insurt anc-e Account 1,000 1 The State File Insurance Account 1,500 t The Public Trust Office Account 5,000 s The New Zealand State-gnaiaii- ? tc-cd Advances Account— > Advances lo Sol tiers Branch ? Account 2,000 " Advances to Workers Rinnch Account 200 l Advances tn I.ot-iil Authorities Branch 100 ;) . 16,300 _

I THE MIKADO'S DEATH. I

A TIIITiIJTi: I'UOM XKW ZEALAND. TJie L'J.'LMK MINiSi'EI! movi'.l: "Th.il a respectful adilr-w-s he presented to his Kxcollcney lljc Governor i'c(^:c--liit' r . Ui< Excellency (o (Oil,-ey to liis Majesty's prim-ipol Sc.;ret>ry of Slnle lor tlic Colonies, for presentation lo (lie Japanese Government. tin- expression et dorp vympalliy Ol' tJit! House of Heprc-vntalivtK of Zealand with the Empress an:l Hoyul Family of Japan and the Japanese nation, on the dcalh of his Imperial Majcstv llk< Mikado." The Prime Minister soul thai llio into Mikado was one of tin; greate.-t men of modern times. He saw Japan - emerge almost from a state of barbarism into civilisation. It was; largelv owin>» | 0 the iufiucnco and example ol tin- .Mikado tlint •this devebp.uent of Jupuu had taken plane. Tho lion. T. Jlackenzio sccomled the motion. Sir Joseph Ward said that tlio marvelions intellect of the Mikado and hi,- farsightedness hid extorted admiration from foreign races, and had lifted Japan into the position of a first-rale Power. The motion was carritd. FORMER LEGISLATORS. The I'RIME MINISTER moved that tlio nmiffc record its ajiprocintion of tlio services rendered tr> New Zealand by the Into Mr. E. J. O'Connor, and its sympathy with his relatives. Air. Massey" >*rareil that the lale Mr. O'Connor, n native of Ireland, represented tlio Duller seat, in the House of lleprescntatives from IS7I to 1875, ami again from IMI to 1803. 110 was 77 years of ago at (ho time of his death. The motion was seconded by Mr. J. f'-.lviu (BuHcr), supported by the ITon. T. Mackenzie, and carried. The House passed a similar motion in reference to the death of the lale Hon. 11. Oliver, a former member of both Houses of Parliament. Mr. Oliver represented Dnnedin City from IS7S to 1S51; ho was Minister for Public Works in (lie Hall Ministry, -and served also in later Cabinets. ITc was appointed lo the Upper Houso in 1891, and retired in Iflfll. Mr. Oliver died in England in November, 1010.