THE BARE MAJORITY.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1494, 17 July 1912, Page 8

THE BARE MAJORITY.

AN DEPUTATION,'' PI^MiEJR^SRgPLY. A PRWATE^BIi-Lv-.PROPOSED. ; FACILITIES TO BE-GIiVEN.:::

Demands for thoMjare majority, iriliceni.\ ;, -. Ing polls;and other.alterations of'tlib'W \, as it now; stands in relation to temperance' '. reform, w/ere'placed beforo the -Prime- ifin-' , ; ,ister (this Hon. \\K: F.'Masseyj yesterday" -•by: a deputation,'rej)i*seiitin;j. : the New 1 Zealand-Alliance. i ; It numbered'about 30 ;.;.. members) -'most of I 'them' prominent offi-' . cials and supporters of'the'alliance, and- , ' was introduced by Mr'.' 'A..' S.' Malcdlih, , member yfo'r" Clti-tha;';, ; "." . ' '■"'' /, i Tho Eev.'.\V.' : J. f Comriei'pr'esideht of the New Zealand. Alliance",'-'"was -the" first: 1.. Bpeaker.yOn-be.'ialf'oft'hiatbody-he^on 1 ---, gratulated thoPrime ..Minister! on attaining 1 office^.- of!, the"alliance,.' Mr:' .Comrie continued)* belonged to. 710 party, li'heir oi 'of. 'all partie'sj-'.';ln : .fthat--character -they' had : '— • admired .thea clean,- hard fight -which Mr. . Massey haU'ihtt'iiti for a very long tinlo. (Hear, hear!). He (Mr. Comrie) could .say"this tho. m.oreasincei : ely7 because the alliance' had-been (in opposition" for a very long 1 lifai',i'Viiby., had .secured somie- ; thing, but like'ft'certain famous-character' they asked for'more."'' 1 They,hoped, in approaching the''Prime:Minister oil this -- occasion to secure a rapid advance of their movement. .They.recognised that the, temperance one 'of'many, . and that 'it'-often occupied''most of tho . people's'aftdritfon at. critical .'times. They • i'elt it desirable that it should nbt-'be the J , burning ques'tipjv at'.^y.e'ry'.election,, and : : that it should Jje/'so far-settled that people ' ■ . would bo, freavt'o giyo'their'attention to' ; :'other-ma'tta'iV.".,'"."'';'..';;:'■ ''.■'.' '•' • ■

The'Three-Fifth's'Majority, and Other, • i •>>.. . . Matters,./ .--.',,. . " ■"' !:' '.' They had come, in .the'first .place, to ', "represen£,;t,hat.-the present, three-fifths ' \ handicap*'which''.was,necessary 'to 'carry ' ' No-LicensD.jn..:tho..el.ectoriites'oi;'to carry ; National- Prohibition throughout" New '. j\ .Zealand,' "was .'mi',unfair ' barrier to the 1 '.. attainment, of |hcir end. The); asked..first ; I": Rnd chiefly-.that ''. i ■ \ :Ministei^^a'n'(L''tliio ( ,'Govdriiijiel}t'. he, rcpre.-; ; t,J sentcd, 'should' endeavour., to■■ secure..'.a ' l;'i mbro dcmdc'r.atic.,method of'.dealing with ■' £';•■ the question,, than was possible while < '; ■.'. three-fifths majority ..remained. They i j. looked to-the-:Government for enforce- ; (!!■" nient of the law; asi'.it ,already existed/ «•;.. The .present. Government''claimed'" that it p^..).'".stood for' (;ho s';, alliance hoped thaVcieau-adnnhistratipn j, .'.would, apply,;,to, the 'They C had reason to believe that at some places I' the law;.in .regard to .ten o'clock'closing , j.jy,was not'observed as it should Ke, and -' in other'places tho'law relating, to £j: Sunday ..'closing ;.;'was" riot | habitiially obh. served. .Ihoy.,believed.that' Dra'ctices obL< tained ilVtlio'King ;Couhtry'which would £; bo terminated •'if.. -the" : law' we're strictly f; enforced.'' .Tlie,!'conditibhs under which ;- , brewery'iicenseS were granted also-called :■ for review; said'that there: was-. f i nothing ;jn ( .tho.:pr?sent: law-.w ; hich allowed ;.\i tho Government'to refuse brewcrv.licenses, [■ - .but that if '.the. Government j, did not-, possess '.this'power.it 'should' ob- ,'. tain it by legislation. ..At'Jresent.brew- :-: eries could be established fi'iii'.-positions' ('.'. made- them.convenient depots for >,-.'. supplying |No r License •. districts. : ,- -They de- ■ sired also iha,t.'there ,'shoiild- bo only on'o bar. to one, license....Tliey" .believed that if' ;,'■.'. this .proposal were '.made,.law,, the barmaid :. x . quesfiobfivould'to.a'great.extent be solved. 1.. Another,=;tliipg desired',-,',by'■.'.the..Al'liahce, : ' Mr. Comrio stated; was' that' when' a dis- ;•:■:,: solution of i .Parliaah:oiit;.took..'plaee,"..a'ffer'' . . ;'.■; b?en in. existence for.'one .year, a !.'. liquor poll should be' taken-ati.the 'sirth -. sequent .election.'' , iAs.-.thiiigs,now ..stood . might dissolve;timo/aftor tiriiej' :'. (after two-year r.periods) .without, a liquor ,; 'poll, being; taken..'. proposals, ad.i. vanced by .Mr. ; a more i. thorough i aid... searching'.' .scrutiny ,and. '.•'■. purging of»tluvrolls than- now,, obtains, !■■',''and also .'for. a.:Sbrntin.y cf; votes cast.-im.-, ■ : '.mediately, after."a poll ,ha(l,.been takeji. .;'■." The Alliance "held also that'thero should "_..'■■ be V reducti'dn'of-'tlre four years' period ■ j : . whicb, under this present-■ law, elapses' between the carrying of-.National'Proliibi- ;,'..,.. tion-; . ami. its., .coining A into, force. ;•.'*'; "!L'he point they•/• wisheil •'.'to.'.emphasise, !' , ih'. Comrie remarked' in concluding, was ;-" 'that the three-fifths.•'majonty'slibnld:bo ;\ done away with/'/They were hot thero to [■: pledge theniselvesitd'!ariy'/'partyi -but ho. !.., believed ..that the,';people, of -New Zealand ; -would n6t / ..soohiprgfetf^those' ; w'ho gra.nted •'.'v'them relief'.in,;i'ihat.'direction. -.(Hear,. : %.'. hear.) . '"'"■, -\•:'.'.- --■■ ■ [ ; v.'.;'. ; :;.i;. '•; ' Departed'-Fears. ■■.!■ :'.■....•■■ 'f, Mr., A.. E.. Atkinson said that the minds ; :',:-,.-of'..'members (of ' -the Prohibition „!.';'liad lately been .much, exercised with fears ■"' that, a premature dksohition'.' would.'rob ;•', them cf''a' poll!« Thesis fears were, not'iso: j 1 ■.;acute,lis they '.had' ! been.'.lriMr.'«AtkinsQn- i .■■ contended that a saiier.-J-ejislature had ! .' never intended to Qpon'-'the way for an ! indefinite postpohehient of\ ' a licensing ,'..'■ jpoll. • All that had beeiv'intended was to, :■ rappoint a minimum period between; polls I jof three/.years. The question' 0f... the. ,ina- . i ijcrity was so simple:and. So:,..element'ary 1 ;■ :that it was ditiicult-ito Spealcl about,;it at length, .'rhby had'carried; this: tUuee-fifths .. tmrden for . nea'rl.v'/'twen.t.y;,ye'ars,',and;it , .was their universal opinion that thay had | carried it-long .enohgh;.!. They (Considered, ..." -ihat they should'not'be.asked to take an- ;' other national poll. handicapped by'this !' -At the-liist^.poll/iiflQ.OOfl.votes '■■■ 'had ljeen cast for Prohibition; and the ' '. «-nemy Itiid-jtolled ;205,m0 votes, y«tithe>; • I'had'not Ix-eii able-to'touch'a single license. i'. 'He was co'.ivinced'that.'.nnt-fivc„per.,cen.t". . .'of, the. 2SOIOOO persons" who,;had:voted for 1 .I'roliibiHon. were op.r.os'(Kr,v.to'.'the bare inajority.'. .-,H the..last..(6nvention seventy. ' i out of''"tlie'seveiity"-six >elecbratc's. : in( the 'Dominion, had v be'eiV.) represented. •>'ln fi7 of p the ( ,.electorates, a-niajority for. TiadWieeii''fe'coi'dcd.. at .'the. last. , , • poll, and ' yet 'not owr-licensf." had:- been '.-, ;'•-.affected..' Anythihg more ttindeniocratic, ."'■ it; would.be. difficult. ; tp .conceive. -He did not suggest, .lie: said, that. the ..Prime' -Minister should bring.-in .Bill, and, make it a ' party question.'in' 1 the present' Parliament': >T)nt it would be perfec'Hy practicable to givo'the House la fair opoor'tuhity '■ of 'dealing with this ,'issue, even'if-flio'"Government could not ! open up the whole licensing question for 'the House to 'deiil ArithL'. 'Thfey were.confident that the outcome of-a, fair trial ! of this issue'SnitKo'Hou'set'pl.'Rfpresbntai tives would be at anyrate-'.a- very substantial reduction of the grievous han'di- ;■■' , cap und.2iv,w)ik'li,, ..Prohibition .party I ''pow laiib'ured.;'^'.-■.',■'.'.....,,,.'-... . : ,-".peßerl z jby r 'a...Minority." -.- ' "'"> Mr. &: CfiWfiVfWangnnm.'deciawdthat ; the supporters of the"-.alliance, .were,!be-. coming'' , f?Stiv*' wislies Of-'tt"' lhnTority vof >th'c 'people ' being frusft'Ste"d"iih''t. defied by a minority,; Why should a minority vote decide this : | r|uestion : -wliich ; 'had been-referred'.-.to tho , )>eoplo for years and years tc":docide for .;..themselves:? 'flier' asked'', that a:. Bill '~" should Wt>rsifght 'in. thiV session. ■' If they. i were defeated they would know what to ! do. si~t,y.;i :-■■:.i ' .'■;. "'. v Mr. E; 3T. Wright, said that one of the- '. . most serious charges . ever advanced against sri'; : Mnssey.was'that; he was a' Conservative. ILaughter.) :,T Mr. "Wright continued that he knew the'charge to be groundless',.'but' the", best : way in which Mr. Massoy'could prove''.that'he was not' n Conservative v.-as to abolish tho. threefifths majority.' Mr. Massey called himself a democrat, and'the'speaker believed roost fervently,,that he was.- If be acceded I'D tlfb r '-fe"ti'u'esb'bf the deputation, the. Prime Minister-v/ould bring, off '.■ did would, remain in office'for.' Hie next" ten years,' (Applause.)

the prime minister's reply, a'nonparty.Question. •... Mr. Massey first of nil - gave licarty thanks for the. congratulations offered him, assuring l -his -bearers -that' what had been, said would' boi; appreciated -..by ,Ins .iv.0.1-' leagues, "as ! it was by' himself.'■. He: uc-', fcnowledged that the deputation had 'slat-' ■i'il its desires very reasonably and moderately, and while he could not'agree.with ?very opinion that members of flio depuration had expressed, .they must understand that neither his colleagues nor hirneelf v.-ere-'ih-anyway'antagonistic to what had been advanced. In the past, men working with him.had been misrepresented in rt|ard't6':thcir'attitudc on the Xblicenso r}>Te'£,ti.on.". Since he'lia'd been in Parliament' tto licensing question had

never been looked upon as a partv question. It had been understood,''during his time in tho House, .that when this licensing question came up, parties, for the .time being, wore dissolved. This had been the attitude taken up in past years, and it would bo taken up by his colleagues and himself. Mr. Conine ltad expressed the opinion that a Licensing Bill should be introduced' during the present session. In regard I o this, ho (tho Primo Minister) .would be perfectly candid. Thero was not much probability of a Licensing i-ill bein? introduced during tho present .session. Owing to tho unstable state- of parties prior Fo the present session and prior to tho iio-confidenco division, n ve-y great deal of time had been lost. A num- • bcr of .matters of urgent importance were jwmtiug to bo dealt with during the pro-•sent-session,''aiid the introduction, of a Licensing Hill was hardly possible.-

, A Private Bill Possible. i;iWhile ho expressed this opinion with regard to a Government measure, he ■would lemind' -them that the Standing Orders'of the House of Representatives provided that during a considerable part of .'the session—generally for about ten weeks—thero was at loist ono privato .'.members' day in each week. If thero were no local Bills on the Order Paper, twp x days in each week- were available for private members' Bills during a great part of tho session. There was -jothing to prevent a private member of tho House ..bringing down a Bill to givo effect to the cpinions e:\pressed by tho deputation. 11 any pri'.-.ito member did this during t!ii< coining session, l hot only would no difficulties be-thrown in his way, but all reasonable facilities would bo' given to the' House to express an -opinion on the question. Practically every member in -the House was pledged on tho licensing V|uestion,'and. if they came to vote upon it, it would be seen whether a majority was pledged to vote for tho bare majority, eleven-twentieths, or there-fifths, as the case Bight be. In any event, the majority must prevail. He was himself ono of the few members not pledged on the licensing question, aiid when tho matter cam©- up for discussion his vote would go in the manner in which his judgment dictated. His sympathies were in • the direction of minimising, and if possible obolishing, the evils of intemperance. .-■■-'. t The King Country. As to the King Country the position was a somewhat difficult. one. He had voted against the proposal made from time to time to give the people of tho King Country, an ■ opportunity of voting for. or against the establishment of licensed houses in that territory; but tho 'European-.'population .of the King Country;''was .increasing very rapidly'and ho believed that the time would como when theh> people, would have to be given an opportunity of expressing an opinion, for or against licensed houses, not at AVaitara, as they were now permitted to do, but at To 'Kuiti and Taumarunui.

'Some Details Dealt' With. As to barmaids the intention of Parliament had, been tio secure that all barmaids then serving in that capacity should . be- required , to. register and that no other barmaids should be, employed; -.The intention of. Parliament would be givin effect to even if it. became necessary to introduce special legislation tp.'do it. Ho would make inquiries in regard to brewery.' licenses. He was jitterly opposed to the establishment of depots in the neighbourhood of districts where No-License had been , carried. Touching another point Mr. Massey said that he was very .strongly in favour of clean rolls and of. efficient purging of the. rolls. His colleagues and - himself 'were absolutely in favour"of a full, free, and complete expression of opinion from the people of tlie country at the "polls. " Personally ho thouglit' that' the four-year term, "which elapsed between the carrying of National Prohibition and giving it effect, hardly necessary; .but.. he would prefer not to give a definite [opinion on the point un--til he had looked into the matter and consulted his colleagues. , ' As to what had been said'about a premature dissolution', postponing a lic.-ns-.ing poll, he agreed with tho opinion slated that'-this possibility had receded. In--dications went to show that the present Parliament would run for its,full term. Summarising.what ho had sey remarked that he did not tliiuk there was much chance of the Government introducing a Licensing Bill that session unless it wero a special Bill to d;al with barmaids. Facilities would be given to anyJ private member to introduce. a 7 Bill. In the meantime, so long as the present Government.: .occupied the' Treasury benches, thelawiwould bo as 'Jrictly and impartially administered with reyjrd to licensing matters as with ;egard to anyI thing, else/' (Applause.) .•;'.'

"A Bill of One Clause,", ,M,r. iComrie 'congratulated-'the Prime • Minister upon his reply, and assured him that his'expression of sympathy had been much appreciated.- Mr. Oomiie suggested that since a Bill dealing with the registration of barmaids was to be'introduced one clause might ljc'made to contain the bare majority issue. ...''.■ 'Mr. Massey. said that a Barmaids' Bill "could be got ! through without difficulty. 'This did'n'ot apply to the other question. ! ■. i' -Mr.-Carson: Might that not apply to a private" Bill? - The' Prime Minister:. That is 50.,. I cannot promise that it would go through. ■', Itv. .Malcolm declared himself confident ■that the, Prime Minister's reply would give 'a great ; deal, of satisfaction to the country."', ;".'.' A Promised Bill." ( Subsequently' .Mr, Malcolm . told a Dominion, reporter that ho would introduce a. Bill, providing for the reduction of, the majority in licensing polls to 55 per cent. •