THE COUNCIL.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1482, 3 July 1912, Page 8

THE COUNCIL.

THE LEADERSHIP QUESTION. POSITION AT A LOW EBB, MR. JENKINSON'S MOTION REJECTED. Tho Legislative Council met at 2.30 p.m. Tho dignity of tho Council loomed largo in a discussion which took place on a motion to set up a Select Committee. Tho Hon. J. E. JENKINSON said he thought some expression of opinion should bo received from members regarding the position tho Council found itself in as tar as its leadership was eoncerued, and to enable this to be dono ho would move an amendment to tho motion. He was egotistical enough to think that there wero some members of the Council who thought as he did on this matter. In his opinion they should have a responsible Minister in charge of tho Council. It would bo better not to go on with tho appointment of Committees until they were in a position to do so with a certain amount of guaranteo that the business of the Council would go on in the proper manner. It was not his desire to delay tho Council or to offend against tho canons of good taste, but at the same time ho thought it right to take every step possiblo to put. his views before tho Council. Subsequently Mr. Jenkinson.moved his amendment which was that in the opinion of this Council a member of tho Government holding a portfolio should be appointed at once to lead the Council, and that no business be transacted until that Minister is so appointed.

Important Legal Point. The Hon. 0. SAMUEL said lie did not wish to burl; di.-cussion on this subject, but lie did not think, Mr. Jenkinson comprehended the position. There n< nn important legal point, which had to bo regarded. The impression was that there was nothing in the way of appointing a Minister with portfolio to the Council and that the Government could make the appointment if they chose. That was not so. The Legislature Act was very clear and notwithstanding the terms of tho Civil List Act it would not be lc;al for the Government to appoint any member of the Council and assign him <t portfolio. Mr. Samuel proceeded to quote the Act to show that there were at present only nine members of the Executive Council mul that being so (lie Government could not appoint any Minister to sit oil the Council and attach to his office a portfolio.

The Hon. J. B. CALLAN said the object of the Hon. Mr. .lenkinson was to remedy a most unconstitutional course. The Loader of the number must be a Minister according to ell the best nullici !- tic*. Mr. Callan proceeded to i|ir.:te the opinion of the late W. K. Gladstone to strengthen the position. It hid been suggested that they should sink their dignity in tho best interests of (ho community. lie 'bought (lie more lliey allowed transactions like ih*> to take place tho loss ivnipht they would have with the public. ITe did not n?vce with (be b?al opinion a.? by the Acting-Loader. «9. jj&t Jilie Gara'iim<int Jmd,. JJia

I necessary power to make the appointment. I Tho positions of tiio lato .Mr. M'Gowan and that of Mr. Samuel wero not analogous. When Mr. M'Gowan took charge it was only during the absence of tho Attorney-General, a paid Minister. .Tho Council should insist for its dignity and its rights that it should bo led by a person who was a Minister of tho Crown. He regretted that Mr. Samuel had taken the position under the present conditions, although Mr. Samuel was wfill qualified for the position. A time should bo defined within which tho Council should l>o furnished again with its constitutional rights. He supported the amendment. The Dignity of the Council. The Hon. Kir Goo. M'LE.VN agreed with Mr. Callan. Ho would welcome Mr. Samuel under ordinary circumstances, but in this position tho dignity of the Council was at stake. They had had a great many knocks, and it was time they stood up for their rights. The Council had its dignity and its rights to deal with, ami it to for those in power to put it right. Tlie.v wanted a. .Minister of the Crown in the Council to represent tho Government, and tlioy should have hiiu or else stop the business until they got him. If they did not stick up for their own rights'what were the people outside to think? Tie hoped the amendment would be carried. Tho Hon. ,T. BIGG thought that in conserving their dignity they might lose some dignity. It really .seemed like a strike without arbitration. (Laughter.) The ciremittances wero exceptional, .and ho thought they might well leave a reasonable time to elapse. He thought they should do tho formal business, but indicate to the Government that they would not pass any policy measures until there was a responsible Minister in tho Council. Tho Hon. J. T. PAUL thought the amendment was likely to place some members ill an awkward position, and ho might bo one, but despite that ho would support the amendment. Ho suggested that the. trouble should never have arisen, and that when the Government was formed it should not have .been considered a complete Government until there was a Minister of tho Crown appointed to the Council. The position of the Council was at a lower ebb to-day than it had been for years, if not at a lower ebb than ever it was. The business of the Council could not bo properly transacted without a Minister in the Council; He had seen tho humiliating spectacle of the late actingleader lianging round tho Cabinet door to get instructions. He thought tho Council should show that the.v do not proposo to take every indignity that can bo heaped on them. An Unusual Crisis, . T.IIO Hon. W. C. F. CARNCROSS thought they should remember that they were passing through an unusual crisis. There had been too much about.the dignity of the Council. AYere the.v going to' tako notice of the newspaper articles dealing with tho dignity of tho Council— papeis which had in the first been only too miiek to belittle the Council? It would bo more dignified in his opinion to quietly accept the position. Ho thought tho amendment was uncalled for, and the whole trouble arose over a mistaken idea of dignitv. The Hon. H. F. WIGRAM said there 1 was no question that the Council should be led by a Minister of the Crown, but he could see no vital difference between tho position in the short, session and tho present session. Tho Council could not discriminate between tho Ward Government and the Government, If the resolution was carried it would be used from ono end of tho Dominion to the other against the Government in power. Ho would' support tho nmendrnont. The Hon. W. BEEHAN did not think the movement could do anything but em- ( barrass the Government. Tho present Executive were doing the right thing in not appointing an Attorney-General. He might not be there very long—(laughter)— or he might bo there a long time. -He would onpose the amendment. The Hon. S. T. GEORGE said he could not support the amendment. The position was unique, and he thought they should agree to the setting up of the committees.

The Hon.;A. BALDEV thought tho Council was' standing a littlo too much 011 its dignity. The Hon. Major HARRIS said he could lioi support the motion, although m_ a degree he approved of what Mr. Jenkinson had done. The Hon. C. H. Mills said ho did not cave a rap what the papevs said, and it would not affect his decision. -Under all tho circumstances, he did not think the Council would bo warranted in going as far as the amendment suggested. On putting the original motion, the voting was 17 —7, as under: — Against tho Motion.For the Motion. Samuel Callan Rigg Luko Carncross Baillio Beehan Paul Steward .Tonkinson fieor»a Johnston. Baldey M'Lean 1 , Smith Collins • M'Cardle Kelly Anstey Harris Thompson Wigram Mills Duncan FIRST READINGS, The Hon. J. RIGG introduced the Workers' Compensation Act Amendment Bill, which was read'a first time. The Hon. Sir W. J. STEWARD introduced tlio Marriage Act Amendment Bill, which was read a first time. The Council adjourned at 4.15 p.m.