Page 2 Advertisements Column 7

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1479, 29 June 1912, Page 2

WELSH CHURCH BILL. &—, —£ ; SECOND HEADING DEBATE. ■ Mil. iJ.oyn-OKOKGK-'S oitbuhst. ;i Tho second readiiig, of tho 'Welsh Pi?: : ' (vsfablislimpn't '.Bill >vo.s passed by the, j , ' Houso of t'oirimons 'oil iilay 1(5;. jllie .di vi- ;' '■6.1011 b.oiiig:. ... .F.ov sccpM reading- SlB Agaii:.-;t 2S? Gdvcrnnicii.t l'najorih- SI.. ■, : "UlnionisMirbJe. 1 v (it tl;i> anitouuefnient .of. ■thcvTigiiTOsv . ? House of Commons began. on : ". '.ifonday 1 evening (May ■:■ 13j the second !:■. •• Vi'cadjrig clisciissioii;. oJ :,th'o W ; ..li'sftmiint Bill. il.aek. ioCj'Steresty ltjif sm.4 as is rarely displayed in connection; , ■ 'with .a first-'cljissViji'tfafiiiro (savs the "Daily' : .' Maii"). 'Several of Hie Ik'neli,® were \ia\f I. : cm.p.ty, .anil- .there 1 was .ui iiiy: .of.-listless. 11 : ::| .' lies-: nver all the Hons); j '■ 'I'ho cqti ■ 13sU^'i:is.:iriov,ed: b.S'i ] : Mr. I'. K. 'Smith;. .who was :llie .first 1 vi ,.epeaf:gi of the. <l:iy. ■ " A sti'rfing ■.Rpoecb : ;by.:.Mr.i;nalfbur : iraa.; : (.lin feature of Tuesday's discussion. • Mr. ;; : Balfour' ■was'.inpvetl'tci'. •jmusuali.animation; ;f' by' Mr. 'lloljhpnsßV.d6nten(i«ni:thae:good< . would result.'to, the Church from tin* some- \ . 1 lii 11 gi' ; 1 ilicv'aT!gcr;,:"l s;Sa' -iChurch.strength- : ■ ehe<i"6lMsv.it" I ,weakened:' by,being, robbed ?'■> This.' was the for a speech which," j vivacious, VTatiricrili and/Vitvtinics piissioii--i>U>, interested .thb..- llouw s ': ris.-..pnly,:. tho , : 'fighting speeches' of; Mr:- liali'otir are cap-- ; ..able., of (loin?. The diK-r.dowment pro- ■ called*: forth- H)'mo..of rMr.-ißalfour sbitterest words. Spc.aSinig. of /.ho pur- ; poses-lb which the..£170,000 previously.de-,: \'■. vole'dl^'Church:.^ . .-lie',■'said':. .'."What: benefits.;;, are. r t, those museums going to ;- conft.r on- tho r«iiot« farmers" ot. distant parts 01. . ■' Wale::':-" Unionists'.laughed as Mr. lial- :' ; four..remarked thoughtiully: "Muwuint; ; ; I100k ' : f airly; we 1K; cn • thoffacosof"■tho-iiil.-.j : 1 Ho.flun? out his hand at Ministers.' < Hut ; | thr>y avo. perfectly., indifferent .'as to the vlt; is not'tho. re- : ',^Qipic'^tsvlhe^'flroi^thinking^ofthe • -.persons'''frbm''v^whohv..'\they , ':afb. , ..takiflg 'it.' 1 ■ .Kathei than r.ot takt. it tliey would throw. ; ; .. ilit;■'■■■in l ' tho :.(Ixiiid' .Tlnionifefc'- up? plauss.)" He turneil to the complaints ■ Vofri: the ;: ChuTchS:;s" You'i are not tokiDK f .fronsKtlioipoor, f 'vhe, said, , be- , causo tho Archbishop of . CajiterbKry! mss : "irt-tb : 'dinder ■ boforo.a,dukg. \Vlth;SOit- • , d^c6ntomp| described . } w3;Mr;', : the;;: Horac " Socrctary;.; in. charge, of .tho' : Bill'for disestablishing fi 'j-Church;, was/in : ;bffoct: hirascU establish-; : is conuecr • which :■ woro J : •. to•'follow:.the::BiU';vA.';The'. right. \ion: gen-;:tlemah;-^hft; to create' a j • .'Church?; is ;;.to Miavo' property, . tno. [ •;amoullt^•.of^'\T■hicl^ ;, i :, ho'' determines. .It is | j going. to be- the'- difference, between. 1 " the- I , £170,000-, of >'hicK;:he : is robbing it and .'tho araonntuwhich;he".chooses to leave it. I He'..'determines t.the : area of the Church; j '■. he '.determines V'the 'endowments' of tho t :.Chiireh'; fand>hb's determines tho- consti.Augustine or St. ; ..Colaraba',-I,suppose,wo ■Welsh ChVircfr of the future is' to look ■ back'; to:;tlio' right' hoa.'|entleman; as ; its :■ founder,'; andi instead ot--,talking of St. ■ ! Augustino"'or St; Columbia, I suppose we ..ahull -talk 'of..St.' •M'Kenna. , "'..The;Prime 'Minist/erV;'speech was .raoderato. jn tone, ' 'polished..(in phrase; delivered;.,with' the . . oasy:'rcsonanc9;. : of which he is a master. ' ;He''sought,'•throughout.'.to' establish!'tho . ■contention.'"'that- precedent showed . the State had- the right to shi-pe tho material ...fortunes of a'Stato phurch. •.Towards tho e'nd' of tho' speech Mr. Asqnith ' made .•'an"; interesting statement as to his ■ personal; 1 vic-ws. I should bo ■ sorry to submit myself to.an examination • ib. orthodosyi (unless I . knew, who the ex-aminers',were),;-1 believe 1 L ean say that •1..' am 1 - sincerely- attached to tho essential teachings,-of the Church of England ■'and its .forms .of; worship. .. In the offieo. may say honestly I have 'spared, neither pains nor time to advance f the. best 1 interests ..of the Church—■■Unionist.cheers)—and to maintain and nromoto its l 'cbmp<>tenc{!,.and,:c|iaraeter.''' (General applause.) 1 -, ■ . , ■ The. final debate ' was opened by Lord . Hugh. Cecil in' 1 a' Spied thoughtful, illu- ; mittative,'' 'moderato 'irn "'toils'.. >"> AII the ■:House listened'.;with sympathetic interest 1 as/.the'ardent''Churchman, pleaded 1 tho Realise of the' State,- Church.-' "Disendowment," i.aid Lord Hugh, "is a , 'violation of. the rights of propciiy and a hindrance'' tothe cause of religion." • .Mr, Lloyd-George, ■. 'Yollowiii? Lord Hugh, paid a tribute;.to tho'eloquence of ;,his;;.. speech," l and '■ immediately proceeded to. eontrovort;'.,.his /■ arguments'. "Why .should' Wales':'bo cbropelled to accept tho faithwhich-isnot tho .faith ot the peoplo:"-. Mr. lAoj'd-<3eorje would not - :;entortairi;'..the. idea, of■ relinquishing I .dis- ] iondowmeht;?.'.*"Disostttblishmcnt without idisondbvrmehil'TS a ■ perfectly ridiculous ■ proposition'.".'Ho-.claimed that tho tithe ■■ii'atf.bcen:.subject to State control in times it had been mainly set aside for -."the secvice of God," but ] I'arlianieht had .!>ecn the. supreme, inter- j i'preter of , what-was meant by "the ser- I vieo of God." "If this property does not | .belong, to, iis,' ; I agree that it would b« ■■ an" act ofi pillago to take it awa) - .' 1 I pay [ : it.bcloiigsviiot to,tho Church, not to tho .p.irsons; it'belongs .to the inhabitants of the' country; fot ( the benefit- of wlsom it was. created," and we are appearing on behalf of..' the'\sx , to claim tho ' restoration of it." Urging the point that I. tho' Established Church,was, set up at tho Reformation,-,-the,. Chancellor -remarked, "Tho 'verj r ■ prayers, were' settled by' Act of, Parliament. I' beliovo that purgatory wis-'abolished, bytho castinir vote of tho' ■Speaker." '-■■.•v-: ." Tho . 'Archbishop" of .'. Canterbury" in .■ the gallery,had-.to join,in. tho'general .laugh-U-r tliat ioll«w«l. .'' ;'.-Very:.soon,the-Char.collor swtvivg to tho lopibVbf■. what, happened to" the property taken ,'from the Church" at- the Keionnatioiii'Uud. read-extracts'" to show how it ■ was- : diverted from, its original use—the 'benefit Jof;,tho-poor. ;■■• Many, of his, alluisions '..were ..directed: towards Lord Hugh Cecil,''sitting" facing hiin below tho faiißway.' '">Yi:ero are thoso lands' now.' If wo aro'teicomo to grief for 'pillage of tho Church'., we shall share- our destiny in wry good company. We shall have all the'bishops.fof, Peterborough , since tho ® i'Befonnation, and some noblo persons 111 — the eastern-:counties to cheer us up'.". Ho ~ spoko; of : an ! appeal for subscriptions to Cor-y.-' bhV ai-'campaigii ■ against tho Bill j uiede bv 'the Duke of Devonshire, who had oha'rgod;. ths Government with "robferyi'ofi God.".,V His/- [voice rose almost to'a I 'scream'as 1 ho exclaimed, with hand I lifted" abovevhis.. head.- "The venr fouudu- , tibns;'ofhis?fortunes aro laid deep in , sacrilege. '' .There are fortunes built oiu I of desocrated shrines and pillaged aitars. After Mr. Bonar Law and Mr. M kenna , had mado 'spMchos.Hho divisioft was taken, , withthefaoove result.3 ;■-. ;—: ■■■'"■ 1 coxcilutiox ; ■ tho fourth' 1 meeting of the Welsh Dis- ' ? pstabiishiiient' Conciliation Conference, _it ] was agreed .'.that: tho. foliowing meiuonai i should:bo'sent'.to. the, Prinio Jliuisyer and t :he-Home;Secretary: ' ;■■■'"■ v /. , :. ; '' ■' v i'hb;mem!>ers of-tho Welsh Disestablish- • rienti, I Conciliation: Conference, wJnlst (ill- „ ering among themselves as to the justice c if. ■■.Disestablishment... and ■- Disendowment, j velcbnib : those",:features of the present liiil t .vhicir.ishowV'greater :■ consideration to ilio, . vhurchHin.j.Wiiles'.than tho previous meaiitres have done. ..At the same limo thoy lrge'-tlio-.Governnient to modify tho Bui ri 1 the'fbllbiviiigvdirections (1) That so.far. ns iitlw rent charge is pVicei'iicd, ! •of comnuita- , « ion'.-and/compounding,.'oi lito • interests j nibodied'-iin.the fAct-'for.. Disestablish went « f the Irish Church bo followed.. . ■ ..,., 1 ,J (2) i 'Tliat : ..."an■. glebe ;, and"biher".lrinds now 1 a the'pbsr-e.WMI 0: the. Church, iiu;Walos, r cinain .the property of the Church aitor J] )isestablishment. , .-J"iv4'i? i , '■(3XVrbafcall.?.propeHy;?;iiic()nired.ont".of i ccumu'iatcd'incoisio since': 10G2.;renin)n' the., ■ rbperljv oL ? the?DiFestablished-.Church. . q (1)' 'riiat tiuv ptwedeiit of the ? Irish, j hurch.;Ae!j.bevfollo\ved. with reference, to that. • — juality {of jusp^is;..socured;.to..ail,parish- , merter^y^ ; - ; . 5 OS:»- ; : i -^ i "; ! -- ' ;i - ;! '' ■ : "-i ■*■ I (5) That'adequate provision for,'tho rensnable protection oi tl:« interests: of'AS- .> stant ; :curat'.es,;bo : :'providcdii i n:thq Bill. ; * ■The 1 : memorial'E llas'been signed by the ■;:,5 di'c'wi'ng':.--SirSEdwa.rd Pry.--;(chairman),' a w BMiop c.f Oxford, ; the Bi;-hop of lin- .■,■:■., )!iv, ; flybrd» : Saye Kev. Edward - tkii'i^ChuM^'joPEhslajidJi'KSir-James "a ii'elr'wM (ii, M.P., Dr. M'. 51VBde,\Dean of 'ortester.i-'Dr.^'jifonrp..." : Gibson, Canon mgjj onsley'lleiison. Caiion H.'Scoit lloliand, S i'.-, ]). C./i/atiibiiryV Dr. Soott- Lid;;, (!,. . ;<■ 1 r..'Gj;'Camp.boU ::; H. Moul", 0 n, Professor ; :A;VjS." I Pcake, J. ..K. itfcnbufy'i^^noh^W.'i-G.'Edwards Bees,. L c&r'nf .Pur.dit:',oh,'.Principal. AY. B. Sei- : v ii Canon 1 i : t ;G ! iJ.Simnson'i¥Mr - w ''.,Robert Whyte, Sir enrv'4Si '-Lvinu' nvcacr), " .. ;