TEARING UP THE BILL.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1448, 24 May 1912, Page 6

TEARING UP THE BILL.

CITIES TAKEN OUT. NO LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD. PROVINCIAL COUNCILS DELETED, i The- Local Government Conferenco resumed yesterday morning to receive the reports of its several committees, the Hon, G. W» Eussoll (Minister for Internal Affairs) presiding, but.adjourned until the afternoon, in order that the reports might lx> printed. Tho recommendations of tho committee on "I/oeal Government Boards," "Provincial .'"Subsidies," "Grants and (ITinanco" were moved by Mr. 11. J.'Mid[dleton. . The first two were discussed to- ' 'gcthcr . 1. That, this committee is in favour of tho formation i of a Local Govern- ' ment Board to take over and exercise tho functions, of tho Minister and tho Governor-in-CounciL, . 2. That tho Local Government Board consist of three members appointed by Parliament for a fixed torm of not less than five years; That members of Parliament: shall not ho eligible. That the Minister be a member of the board ex officio. Mr. G. J. Garland (Auckland) objected to tho threo memliers of the board appointed by Parliament holding office for live years. Mr.: A. Moore (North Canterbury) did not favour a Local Government ifoard, which would be a buffer between tho Minister and tho local bodies. He preferred tho present system. There was a danger that such a board would from time to time get its powers extended until it 1 quite overshadowed the local bodies. Mr. J. iStudholmo (Ashburton) moved an amendment for the purpose, inter alia, of restricting the funetious of the board to those stated in the Bill, and confining it to the power of making recommendations to the Governor-in-Council. Tho mover explained thnt the amendment was not a. hostile one, lint was intended, to define the functions, of the board more exactly than tho.: committee hail attempted. • The main object of tho board was to enable the' Minister to carry out his duties with ■inore expert knowledge and more dispatch. It ought not to have, powers of decision conflicting with or overriding the powers of the Minister. If its powers were restricted to recommendation, Ministerial responsibility would be preserved. Mr. W. S. Maslin (South Canterbury) said a Local Government Board would bo a fifth wheel in the coach. He wonld oppose any scheme for setting up such a board. Minister Defends the Board Idea. Tho Minister thought the amendment would be'unworkable with the exception of Clause !>. Anyone with Parliamentary experience would know that the election of a Local Government Board- by Parliament would be unworkable, and to propose it ■ would tend, to kill the project. Election of tho board, by both House? of Parliament would •be impracticable, whereas if the Lower House alone elected . the members,. the Government in power would send its party whips round, and simply get its own nominees elected. . Mr. Parr (Mayor of Auckland): Does it do that? (Laughter.) The Minister-. Oh. yes—pretty much as you would do on the Auckland City Council, 'when you have an important scheme to get through. (More laughter.) It had been said that if the Minister did not do the proper thing they could turn him out. That was-' not so. A Minister could only ( be turned out by turning out the whole Government, and that was a much harder job than some people thought. (Laughter.} In fact, it was very true in this matter that possession was nine points of tho law. (More laughter.) There were a number of boards now connected with public affairs, such as the Public Trustee's BoaTd, the Public Service Superannuation Board, the State Fire Insurance Board, and others. Most of them consisted "mainly of Departmental heads, fetch of whom exercised his independent judgment just as county councillors did. Thus they got the benefit of united experience inore effectually than when the Minister had only the advieo of tho officers 'of his own Department. He suggested that Mr. Studholme's amendment (should be rejected and the committee's resolution should be amended so that tho board should bo constituted like the English Local' Government Board. Mr. Horrell (North Canterbury) thought the local . bodies should have a voice in the composition of the board. Tho Minister said -that if any of the members were elected they would form a littlo Parliament which -might come into conflict with the Government. Also there would be salaries and expenses to be paid to them. Mr. A. E. Jul! (ITawke's Bay) thought that the board might comprise representatives of tho local bodies, just as the land boards had representatives of tho Crown tenants. In reply to Mr. Horrell, the Minister paid that the board would probably save come of tho. work of the present day special commissions. Dr. . (Gishorne) said the people of the Dominion should have some representation, op. the board. Mr. H. I?. French (Warkwortli Town Board) : said :the English Local Govern-, •ment Board had not passed on any of itsioowccs to the local authorities as intended.but had increased its own powers. lT<v therefore thought it better to Jeave the'.power in tho. Minister's hands. Mr. E. Maxwell (Taranaki) said that tho committee. only agresd to endorse the; board idea because the Minister had informed' them that neither he nor the Government wished to give the board any further powers. Yet they had sinco heard .from the' Minister, himself two sug- ' gestions .to increase the powers of tho b0atd....:1f.. the provincial councils were to :be dropped, as was practically certain,' there would be no need for tho Tho Minister, who was approehablo and accountable could perforin tho functions as \<it present. Mr. D. M'Laren (Mayor of Wellington) was against the board exercising functions that more properly belonged to judicial tribunals. Tho first clauses were lost on. the .Voices. No Provincial Councils. Clause .1. That this committee does not agree with the establishment of Provincial Councils. This was.carried on the voices. Grants and Roading. The following clauses wero adopted Tfithout discussion:— ■(. That this committee is wholly opposed to the present method of distribution of public moneys by wav of promiscuous grants "for roads, bridges, and such other works, and favours tho substitution of a system of increased subsidies on somo' definite principle. o.'That while this committee is entirely opposed to the continuance of tho present system of promiscuous grants, at the sn»ie time it is of opinion that the Government should faithfully carry out all engagements or obligations for worts flrat it has already committed itself to. and the committee appreciate Hio "FTon. the Minister's promise in this rpsnect. li. 'Hint the committee stronglv emphasise its opinion that the complete reading of now lands cirniilhmonncir advance with the settlement thereof. Such rending to be carried out at the cost of tho General Government. ■ Clause 7 was postponed. Borrowing Powers. Clause R dealt with loans and borrowing powers. The first paragraph was adopted on the - voices:— 8. That it be a recommendation from this committee that all local bodies be authorised to invest their own sinking funds through their own Commissioners, excepting such loans as are granted by the Government Advances - Board, and that any section of any statute providing "otherwise bs repealed. The committee further recommended:— That" the powers to borrow should be limited only by a vovo of the ratepayers. The Minister pointed out that tho local bodies now owed ,£17,000,000, and had more than doubled in tho last ten years. Tho question was whether there fhonld be no break on the borrowing. They should also remember ( that in the ci Lief, tho extended franohisq hadgreatly

extended the constituency. There was ono borough in the J)ominion which had spent a largrt sum on a municipal theatre, -ami not a penny on drainage. The pnopio there might lie laying up thp seeds of ft serious epidemic in future years. He had hoped that a strong Local Government Board would have been able to go carefully into such mattors.' Dr. Collins (Gisborne) Jield that there should bo some authority over local bodies in the matter of loans. Mr. D. M'Laren thought the extension of the franchise need not cause alarm bpcause the lion-ratepaying voters were more desirous of sanitary conditions than of attending the theatres. Mr. A. ]•;, Jul! (Hiuvke's Bay) said many borough councils examined borrowing proposals very perfunctorily, because could throw the responsibility on the ratepayers. This was jwt so in the counties. The Minister said that he _ -was not: prepared, as Minister, to limit a local body in the exercise of its functions,' but he would willingly take his share of responsibility as a member of a board. That Board Again. The Minister suggested a little later that it might be feasible to empower the Municipal Association and the Counties' Association to elect one delegate each to the Local Government Board. " Mr. J. Shidholme (Ashburton)' thought the conference should at least express the opinion in general terms that there should bo some restriction of the borrowing powers of local bodies. Mr. C. J. Parr (Mayor of Auckland) Admitted that there had been some mistakes in borrowing, but he thought the ratepayers must be trusted. They usually rolled up strongly when they were really opposed to 11 loan. There was also the very valuable and .-H'ective criticism of thp press in the large cities. Until they could devise a judicial tri-. buual for this purpose, free from any connection with party polities—(hear, hear)—the discretion of the ratepayers should not be interfered with. An amendment, moved by Dr. .T. C. Collins in favour of a Local Government Board comprising representatives of the Municipal Association and Counties' Association, was lost on the voices. 1 The committee's recommendation was carried bv .')l to 23. The following was carried on the voices.— . That it is desirable that increased facilities be .granted for obtaining frotu the State-guaranteed Advances Department all loan moneys authorised to be raised by the ratepayers; but that, failing the advance of any such loans by this Department, it be '

• admissible for die local body concerned to obtain the required loun elsewhere. Cities to be Left Alone. The committee, to which wag referred "Municipal with special relation to inclusion ot' contiguous districts ami townplanning," reported having unanimously passed the following resolutions:—' 1. That, in view of tho fact that the cities and.large boroughs of the Dominion have-special .circumstances and I liabilities in their administration,-due | to most of. .them Conducting electric tramways, .light', gas, water, and other trading ventures, which 'differentiate them largely from other local bodies, wo are of opinion that, such cities and boroughs cannot, without serious injury to the community, be incorporated in the proposed Bill, and this committee is of opinion that they should be excluded therefrom. 2. That we are of'opinion that the suburban boroughs of the Dominion should not be included in the proposed provinces, such boroughs being satisfied with the powers of administration conferred 011 them by the Municipal Corporations Acts, and being desirous, when their burgesses so wish it, voluntarily to amalgamate such suburban boroughs with the cities. The above were adopted by the conferonce on tho voices. ' Town-Planning. The committee further recommended:— That special legislation to provide for town-planning is urgently required. That.in 'particular it is necessary in the public interest that the subdivision of suburban areas for settlement 'should be more strictly supervised' Mian'hitherto. That, any town-plan-ning authority should be representative of the local authorities affected, or likely to be affected, with the addition of special experts on the subject. This was adopted without discussion. Domain Boards. The committee set up io consider counties, road and town hoards, with a. special view to abolition and amalgamation of minor local bodies and enlargement of counties, made the following recommendation :— That all Domain Boards within comities be vested in County Councils or municipalities. 011 tho motion of Mr. J. G. Wilson, the following words wer-j added: — "Ami where a Domain Board is adjacent to several boroughs, the said board be controlled by the largest local authority." Road Boards. The same committee also recommended :— That tho present dual system of control by counties and roail districts should cease, that the county system be the system that should be retained, that duo regard should be given to the interests of the districts now under the control of Road Boards with regard to representation and otherwise, nml that 111 the meantime some simpler method be adopted for merging Koad Boards into counties than at present exists, such as by talcing a poll. Mr. F. W. Venn (Horowlienna County Council) and Mr. It. Everett (Nelson) spoke in defence, of road districts, and

advocated the setting up of a commission to decide, which boards should be abolished. Mr. .full pointed out that the Eden County comprised only 43 square miles, and within that area there were fourteen road boards. Would anybody say that such shouid not be abolished? As a contrast, the .Southland County contained 1000 square miles, and this territory was administered—and well administered—by nino men. Mr. C. .T. Parr (Mayor of Auckland) said that the 50 cr (!0 road boards in the Auckland district were doing excellent work, better than county councils would do. Ho approved of a commission to deal with the matter. He agreed that the road boards in tho County of Eden should be abolished. Tho nmrndment (moved by Mr. Venn and seconded by Mr. Everett), recommending that- tho question of the' merging of road boards be referred to a commission of inquiry, was defeated. , The. recommendation was adopted. Tho following claus6 of the report of tho Municipal Committee was taken at this stage, and adopted:— .1. That with respect to tho smaller rural boroughs and those road board districts adjoining the cities or forming part of the suburban area of tho cities or boroughs, this committee is of opinion that the Government should set up a commission of inquiry under the Commissions of Inquiry Act to report as to which of these bodies can, in the public interest, be amalgamated ' with tho counties or adjacent boroughs a.s the case may be. This committee expresses the "view tlmt such amalgamation in many cases is desirable, and should, if necessJry, be compulsorily effectcd. Town Districts. The next recommendation was adopted as follows-.— 1. Town districts.—The committee reoommend that all town districts with a population of 500' and upwards be formed into boroughs; that all town districts with a population of under 500 be merged into counties ■ or adjacent boroughs, provision being made in the Counties Act for the establishment of local committees, by election or otherwise, to administer under the control of the County Council; that the counties should have the power now exercised by the present town districts, which 'may be delegated to committees. Cemeteries and Drainage Districts, Tho committee recommended and' the conferenco resolved:— That tho same provisions of administration as recommended to apply t.o domains should apply lo cemeteries. That river districts and drninaae districts that operate within the coil-'

fines of a county bo alxdishcd, a in? Dip duties of osisti iifr boards be carried mi hy the county councils or borsugli councils, oi'. a joint or lneal cammitlpe, ns Hip cn=e may require. The rnniniittc-j recommends tluit the same provisions of administration ns up ply to river districts should apply to water-supply districts, but. in cases where operations arc carried on by one hoard in more than one comity, the existing board shall continue. An amendment, moved by .Mr. F. W. Venn (Horowhenua), iu favour of abo I - ishing licen.-ini;. committees and committing their functions to the local, authorities was rejected. County Councils. The following: motions, representing recommendations of the committee as amended by the conference were carried That county councils or borough councils be empowered to exercise the duties of harbour hoards in such eases where there is at present no harbour board, but that in such cases . the county or borough should do this work in its capacity of a county or borough instead of a harbour beard. That, in the case of the merging into the counties of any other class or classes of local bodies, all the powers and duties now exercised by such bodies be given to the county councils. That powers sufficiently wide to enable the counties to efficiently carry out all the functions now imposed upon them be given them. That the multiplicity of small counties is a mistake; that the number of counties should be inntori.illy reduced, and that a Commission should be set up to inquire as to where amalgamation can bo mode, keeping in view the size, population, valuation, mid community of interest ol' such counties. That the present system of ridings in counties he retained. That a uniform system of accounts bo adopted by local bodies. Triennial Elections. The committee recommended:— That the present system of triennial ' eleotion be retained in the counties, iiihl he made- to apply to all local bodies, the elections to be held on the same day. Mr. J). M'Lnren (Mayor of Wellington) opposed the application of this clause to cities and boroughs. His council had discussed and condemned it, being in favour of biennial elections. Mr. J. A. Nash (Mayor of I'almerstou North) took a similar view. Mr. C. J. Parr (Mayor of Auckland) supported the three years' term for mayors and councils. There wore too frequent elections, and this was the view of the general public. A loan's third year of office would be his most useful one. Mr. J. Trevor (Wellington) favoured triennial elections. Mr. J. W. M'Eivau (Mayor of Petone) thought the electors ought to have the right to say,every year whether they were satisfied ivith their mayor or wanted a new one. They would show 'that they appreciated a, good' man when they had one.-'

Mr.'G. J. Garland (Auckland) advocated election of' mayors by the councils, and a triennial term for councillors, who shoiiid retire in rotation, the election being held annually. The chairman ruled that tho clause did not apply to mayoral elections. All amendment moved by Mr. M'Laren to confine the application of the clause to counties was lost, and the clause was adopted without alteration. The Franchise.' Tho conference affirmed the desirableness of retaining the present county franchise. Mr. .lull moved— . That the municipal franchise bo amended to provide for a vote for l'iitepnying qualification, in addition to the residential qualification. The Minister said what was wanted was a uniform franchise for local government. But who would tackle such a problem? It would be like handling 11 porcupine. (LaVgliter.) Mr. M'Laren advocated "one citizen, one vote"—or • "every citizen two votes," if Mr. Jul 1 would like that any better. Mr. M'Laren also suggested that the men living on the coal hulks in Wellington harbour should have the municipal franchise. t Mr. ,Tull withdrew his motion. The report as amended was adopted. Hospitals Deleted. The committee on "Hospitals and Education" recommended :— That Part IX, hospitals and charitable aid, be deleted from the Bill, the present Act, with some minor amendments, being satisfactory. That it bo a recommendation to the Department to give the following matters its serious consideration:— (a) The alteration of boundaries, either •by enlargement or otherwise, (b) To place upon the Estimates a sufficient sum annually to cope with consumption. (c) That receiving homes bo placed in the large centres for the reception of mental incipient cases, cost and maintenance of .same to be borne by the mental authorities; also that the treatment of habitual inebriates should be 0 charge on the -same Department. (d) That the Destitute Persons Act should be amended. Incipient Mental Patients. The Minister said that he had aheady suggested to all the hospital boards ho had inot that a sufficient sum should be devoted annually to cope with consumption. It was 0110 of the most important things that couhl bo done for the future of the country. Medical inspection of school children, for which work a lady medical officer and another doctor would shortly be appointed, would make it. possibles to discover cases of tuberculosis and have them dealt with at the earliest stage, lie was also strongly in favour of receiving homes for incipient menttil cases, where people could go without the slightest taint of an insane institution, and thus be enabled to ovoid an environment that might make them niucli worse. The recommendations wero adopted. Education. Tho conferenco also resolved, on the recommendation of tho same committee, (hat Part X (Education) should be deleted from the Bill. » The following recommendations wero also adopted:—

That tile Minister should fake steps to ascertain whether the boundaries of tho various education districts cannot be improved, and should consider (lie question of subsidies (or capitation) now being .paid to boards, and boards of governors, for technical and manual training and secondary work, and that, the results of inquiries, if _ made as above, should be communicated to boards for consideration, and for further alteration, if necessary, before any material amendment 111 tho law is made. Subsidies. The recommendations of different committees relating to subsidies were taken together, and it was resolved: That tho system of subsidies to boroughs be continued, ami in case of their merging in counties the subsidies for tho boroughs so merged should be continued to the counties. That this committee is of opinion that the system of subsidies should bo regulated by the necessities of the district as well as by the amount of rales that may be collected. That Parliament should decide what sum is available for subsidies to local bodies. ' That this sum so set aside should then be divided among the local bodies 011 a definite principle. That the system this committee would recommend tho Government to adopt is the one that has been in force for many years in New South Wales without prejudice to the interests of cities and boronghs. (This comprises an annual classification of the shires by Governor's Proclamation and subsidies payable accordingly on the basis of the proceeds of the general rates of the counties.) Thanks. The Prime Minister (the Hon. T. Mackenzie) then thanked the delegates for the assistance (hey had given the Government lo their dolilwrations. Mr. A. 10. .lull Ulawke's Bay) moved a vole of thanks (0 the Hon. (!. \V. Jfussell for his able chairmanship. The Minister's conduct nf I he proceedings had dearly proved lii= desire In do something In improve the system. Mr. 0. Parr (Mayor nf Auckland), in seconding the motion, said * fwhirs of the oonferencs had beon the conspicuous

;il)i!i(y of the chairman. 'Iho JliH l ia cl gone. almost. wholly 11ml entirely, but the Minister had obtained from tiie conference a .series of resolutions which he tonic leave to Bav expressed the real mind of the people of New Zealand. It was especially satisfactory that the system of Parliamentary grants and subsidies was at lost to be placed on a more equitable! and decent bast"..

The vote of thanks was heartily carried. The Minister Sums Up—Bill Must Be Abandoned. Mr. Russell, in acknowledging it, said that he regarded this conference as the most important work he had done in his public life. 'I he conference was thc_ ablest onn that had ever dealt with public questions in Zealand. and even Parliament might take lesions from it. The Mill, as it stood, must be abandoned, but the resolutions passed would enable the Government to understand what was wanted, so that a moderate Bill embodying manv reforms could lie brought down, and 'if Parliament reflected the opinions of the local bodies, it would have a chance of being passed within the next month or two. Two outstanding things had !>een done by the conference. (1) It had shown that there was no necessity to interfere with the domestic concerns of the great cities. (2) it had decided that the process of breaking up (he counties into smaller and smaller counties must bo stopped, and a Commission must be set up consisting of able \ men, who would go through the country and revise the - boundaries, so that, instead of 130 wanties, there should be JO or .'>o strong bodies with assured fi mince, which would bo able to fill tho place designed by Sir Joseph Ward for (he Provincial Councils. They would thus have all the benefits of the larger system without duality of powers or conflict of interests. In regard t» subsidies, lie-had already shown the injustice of the cliarge that Governments had used them to debauch the constituencies. Subsidies had been based on the requirements of the disfricls, lint there had been no scientific system, anil if they could now establish something definite, like the New South Wales plan, it would be a tremendous benefit. Copies of the full report of the proceedings would be sent tu the local bodies. The conference concluded with the singing of the National .Anthem and ".Auld Lang Syne," followed bv cheers for Mr. Husseli and the Prime Minister.