LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1447, 23 May 1912, Page 8

LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

i >«0«H I CONFERENCE OF DELEGATES. PROVINCIAL COUNCILS ABANDONED. CHARITABLE AID ELIMINATED FROM THE BILL LARGE HARBOUR BOARDS WITHDRAWN.

Tho Conference of delegates of local bodies on'tho Local Government Bill was resumed!.yesterday at tho-Sydney Street Schoolroom. The Hon. G. W. Russell :(Minister', for Internal Affairs) presided. .. Tho Hon. G. AF. Russell stated tjiat it was proposed by the Executive Committee to set up four committees to deal with different sections of tho Bill. He ridded that tho Executive Committee were ■unanimous (and he quite agreed with 'them) that the larger harbours must be "absolutely withdrawn from any proposed, change. (Hear, hear.) 110 was of opinion that the setting up of special committees would materially assist the conference, reduce tho 'amount of work which tho "conference' itself would have to do, and tho result Vould'be that the Govemjinent add tho country would.be placed !in' full .possession of the -.views• of the delegatesVqn tho important questions submitted to-the-" conference/- " :

A Comprehensive Speech. Mr. J.. Studholme (Ashbuvton County Council) thought the Government deserv- -. Ed credit for .having the courage to deal .frith the difficult .question of local government. He believed', tLaOh**7fecling; Pf tho country was' in-favour of a radical change being made in. our system of local government—in fact, that feeling was very much' stronger than any one Ipresent seemed to suppose, judging by ;tho opinions, already expressed by the [members of.'the. conference who had spoken. He held that there was grdat need for a change. The chango should |not be a mere tinkering or patching. The .first great defect of the present system, jto his mind, was this: the inability of. 'the present local bodies satisfactorily to discharge their functions owing to their ('generally speaking) individual weakness, to their multiplicity, and to' their want ,of-system or cohesion. The local'bodies wero unablo as nt present constituted .to'act as an efficient, counterpoise to 1 the jprevailing tendency to centralise LVpartunental control in Wellington. That was !a very great evil and defect. Another jgreat defect was the excessive number ; of local bodies. The members of the con- , ference were more or less agreed on.that (point. A great evil in tho case of i many of the local governing bodies was [that they were not sufficiently powerful fto carry-out their duties efficiently. The present system of distributing grants from ;tho Public Works Fund was another defect. It was the most wasteful, most unbusinesslike, and most demoralising svsjtem that,could.possibly exist—in fact,"it : could not .properly, bo, called a system nl ■ all. There were no words in the English Janguage that would adequately express jhis objections to the present method, or want of method, in dealing with those grants. ! If tho conference had no other jesult than id help tho Government to .'devise some-regnlat- principle'on which these grants should in-future be allocated, the'conference, would have justified its .existence a hundredfold. ' Sound Remedies. Continuing, Mr. Studholme asked what were the remedies proposed for these defects? They were Provincial Councils, the abolition of a large number of local bodies, and tho substitution of a definite principle with respect to subsidies, in place of the present method of promiscuous grants. :To his mind, these three remedies were thoroughly sound, and he heartily-agreed with them. . He looked upon thoso remedies as forming the main principles of the Bill, and he hoped that thoso-in chargo of the Bill, and those who jwero anxioiis.to see it.carried, would conjtenfcra.to their efforts on tho maintenance tof those essential principles. They should Yiot overload the Bill with more contentious matter than could possibly be avoided, and, they should throw overboard any-, jthing that ' would endanger the Bill .which was not in accordance with jtho principles he had indicated. With ; (respect to subsidies, there was no system fthat could'bo "devised which was likely to bo perfect. He was extremely sorry to (hear tho Minister say that the. svstem in the Bill was unworkable* Any system that; was devised would, in liis judgment, bo better.than tho method now in force. If they, adopted a. svstem of subsidies, they should make it'absolutely impossible tha Mho-present unsatisfactory jnethod shoiild continue. They should ; mako it illegal—in fact, criminal—for the Government to allocato moneys under a ■system of promiscuous grants. It had •been said that tho Bill did not give an jnssured finance. "What was an assured finance? It-did not necessarily mean a generous finiince. It meant thnl- tho local todies should know exactly where titey iwero with respect to finance, and also frhat they were to receive from .the General Government. The Bill provided fi>s ',nn assured-finance. It practically said >to the local bodies -that the 'subsidies they would receive would be in exact proportion to the extent they were willing to ielp themselves. " The Education Question. If they were going to deleto education .mid charitable aid from tho administration of the- local bodies proposed, there .would be no justification for th"ir existence. He hoped that those in fav-. our of the Bill and of Provincial Councils would ~fifrht their hardest to main- ■ tam education as one of. the ■functions ot the Provincial' Councils. What wra the main objection, that had been urged to the inclusion of education in the functions of the Provincial Councils? It was that the cost of primary education would be to some extent thrown on the local rates. First of all tho Bill provided that" the funds which were at present due by law to the education should be paid to the Provincial !Councils for education. Then the Bill proceeded to contradict itself by repealing or withdrawing one of the chief sources of revenue. There was no need for that provision.; -They, should leave the finance. for-oducatioji exactly as it was at. present. 'J If that were done r.ineteuths of.:; -the objections 'to including education in the functions rf the Provincial Cciincils.would.be removed. He believed that it was not only necessary to the Provincial Councils-that education should' be included, but he believed it wonld enormously increase the public interest in education, and . enormously ■ stimulate the development and progress of education on sound lines, and. on lines suited to the special needs .of each, district. . He believed that the division of labour between the "ProvmciaT" Councils and the county councils was thoroughly sound. _ Hn long as they had the franchise maintained on a proper and just basis, he saw no danger with respect to the maximum of the rating. To his mind, it would bo a most unjust principle, and it would be most dangerous and" disastrous if, under the Bill, there was substituted- a purely Parliamentary franchise" for the present rate-payers'-franchise for the election of local bodies. '.At the 'same time they must remember that they had the Parliamentary franchise hanging over their heads, andlr-'might-be-forced upon them at any time. The Bill,- he thought, offered a solution with respect to the principle which, should be adopted as to voting... However,' if tho conference and those interested in tho question of a reform in local government could' not furnish a solution of tho franchise question, it would bo better to delete tho clause with respect 7 to the franchise, and leave tho matter'its "''it was at present. In his opinion tho residential franchise should bear tho same proportion to the. ratoDayers;^.ranchi£e^fls^h,e.-/joiernip ! l l it

subsidy in each county bore, to the rate collected. Assured Finance. Mr.' .T. Smart (Vinceut-Maitiofolo) was of opinion, that if the localbcdies had an assured iinancc that would solve many of their present difficulties. The franchise .was an important question, and was one .with respect to which tho conference should give no uncertain sound. Ho strongly objected to the franchise proposed in the Bill. The members of local bodies—which bodies were mainly administrative—should be men with" a full sense of their administrative responsibility. He favoured the continuance of the present system with respect to the voting qualification. The proposed subsidy system would suit tho Vincent County perfectly well. The Counties Act. ;-Mr. H. J. Middleton (Southland) said it seemed to him that they were gradually, evolving, something substantial, by the discussion that was taking place. It appeared that it was tho opinion of raanv delegates that tho municipalities, the large harbours .and tho hospital and charitable aid boards could not be imj proved upon, and they did not want reform in respect to those bodies. If that jw so, it meant that there was very little that required reform, except in connection, with tho Counties! Act. He believed tho solution of tho difficulty would be to enlarge the counties and give them somewhat extended duties. He came to the conference stoutly opposed to the formation of local government boards, as proposed in the Bill, but ho must admit freely that the remarks of the Minister had to a. very great extent changed hfs views in regard to that matter. The proposal was apparently not so revolutionary. as he had formerly thought. He understood that the duties of the board would practically include the taking away of a great many of the powers which had hitherto been exercised by the Governor-in-Council. Reasonably large county councils would, he thought, mean the adoption of' the most economical system of administration that was possible. He was thoroughly in accord with Mr. Studholme's condemnation of the present system of grants and subsidies. He could give instances to show the absolute vicionsness of the present system. He would suggest increasing tho size of tho counties, and that in some instances road boards should be merged in the counties. Some system might also be devised for the counties taking over the duties of river' boards, separate rating areas'being created, and administered by special committees. ■.

•Education Boards Favoured. Mr. If. Lowe (Mayor of Thames) said there was no question as to the real need for reform. He favoured enlarging the Powers of county councils and giving them an assured finance. Education would be better .left to the present boards. Hospitals and charitable aid'could'he very •oueh better administered by the local districts than by any central authority. Mr. W. Macalister (Southland Education Board) said the Minister's speech had largely disposed of the objections to tho Local Government Board. Other speeches had shown that the country did not want the Provincial Councils, and that education should be administered by independent boards. He sympathised with Mr. .Middleton's proposals lor enlarging the counties and increasing their powers. River boards, the smaller town boards, drainage boards, and water supply boards should 1)0 abolished, and their functions given to committees of the county cruneils.

Mr.. H. JI. Corbett (chairman of tho Ohinemuri County Council) advocated a regular system of loading' lands for roading. His district could not do without the subsidies nt present received, or their equivalent,- but it was desirable that they should know what moneys were coming. Under the present education boards the country schools did not get their fair share of funds, and committee men had to.put their hands into their own pockets for school purposes. Mr. .7. Trevor (Wellington): "So thev do in the city."

Mr. Corbett added that some better way of electing education boards was required. Mr. .1. 11. Walker (chairman of tho Bruce County Council)-thought the committee on education should be able to recommend means of avoiding much of tho present unnecessary expenditure on certain subjects of tuition. The new. hospital and charitable aid system was working well, and the sectioh of the Bill dealing with that work,, as well as the education section, should be eliminated. He deprecated the increase of the powers of tho Minister in hospital -matters. ( "Stick to the Road Boards." Mr. Ebenezer Allen (Auckland) said if they wanted economy it appeared from the Minister's figures that thev should stick to tho road boards. If they tried to abolish the rnad boards they' would find those bodies bad a good deal of kick left in them. They should bo left >o mergo in the counties as they thought fit.

Mr. .T. Bruce (chairman' of the Akaroa County .Council) said the annual scramblo for grants nt the end of every session was unsatisfactory. A graduated subsidy would be no remedy, because tho needs of different localities varied so widely. Ho was -against placing education aiid hospital administration under the control of men elected for other purposes. Sacrifice "The Other Fellow," Mr. John Fisher (Southland Education Board) favoured the proposed Local Government Board as compared with tho present exercise of power by the Gover-nor-in-Couiicil, but thought the board might be nioi-o democratically constituted than had been proposed. They all seemed to admit tbn,t there were too many local bodies, but each delegate wished to sacrifice "the other fellow." Tho creation of provincial councils would raise the whole tono of local government, but tho' discussion had made it evident that those councils would not come Into existence. Every local body should keep its accounts in one way, anil make its returns to tho Government in proper form. The Minister': "Hear, hear." Mr. Fisher- added' that this would reduce the work of tho Audit Department by 50 per. cent. Mr. B. J. Williams (chairman of the Buller County Council) said the confer; ence -was representative _of local bodies.' but not of public opinion. Ho could not see that a provincial council would be a terrible monster, eating up all the children that came in its way. no thought the provincial councils could do the work of the hospital boards as well as those bodies. Education must remain a national, and not be made a locnl concern, but the present system of electing the education boards was unsatisfactory.

Mr.' J. G. Armstrong (Wairnu-Picton) said that whether the Bill was passed or not, the present county boundaries should ,be readjusted. That might well be done by a commission. All That Will Be Left. 'Mr.-J. Corkill (Wairon) thought it would be a great mistake to interfere with the small tuwn districts, hut held fti:if » numhor of small bodies might be merged in the counties. The present hospital -and charitable aid boards were working admirably, and he thought it would bo a mistake to disturb .the present arrangements. It appeared (hat the only bodies which were left to be dealt with by Hie Bill were river boards, road boards, drain'age boards, and water supply boards, It

now seemed (hat I lie oilier local bodies would hot bo louclied. ' The Troubles of Taranaki. Mr. J. T. Quin (ehairnian, l-.llhnni County Council) said Hint coiiiniunilv of inlcrv.it should he studied in arranging county boundaries so as lo avoid .such oircuinsfances as existed in Taranaki, where people living in one countv hud no oullet without paying turnpike lull* in the surrounding comities. As an inslanco <if detects in Ihe present eilucalion system, he said that the people in his district had onlv been able to Ret a teacher removed bv withdraw-in',' all their children from the school. He advocal cd large hospitals, and amendments that, would facilitate the collection of rales from Xaiive lands.

-Mr. Mason Chambers ' (ehairnian, Tlawke's .Hay County Council) said the present law had a tendency to promote the dividing; up of counties, especially because a county by dividing into two or more could, got twice or thrice as much subsidy. The position in regard to i'oriiiation of dralinag'o hoards was similar.

Mr. W. Unlli.Tway (chairman, Slralfonl County Council) said lie called Hie Hill the Local Bodies Confiscation' Bill. To enforco the rates provided for the Provincial Councils in the Bill would niAfco eight-tenths of the small sol tiers of Taraiiaki leave.'the county. Other districts might'bo able to stand the proposed taxation, but 'I'aranaki could not. It, was a. poor district, (liourli it produced ti lot.

llr. H. ,1. Slade (chairman, Hobson County Council) said he had been sent to the conference to vote against the proposed establishment of Provincial Councils, and also to oppose nny interference with the present hospital and charitable aid system, and the national system of education. A Retrograde Step. Mr. 11. Bignelt (Grey Hospital Board) was of opinion that it would be a very retrograde step, and totally unnecessary to take the administration of education away from education boards, and place it in the hands of Provincial Councils. He favoured giving county councils larger powers. To go back to Provincial Councils would be reverting to an obsolete system. The charitable aid Iwards were 'doing good work. , He supported the retention of ridings in counties. Mr. W. Ritchie (ehairnian Waitotara County Council) favoured leaving tho Education Boards out of the Bill, and thought that the hospital and charitable aid system established two years ago should be allowed to stand. The county councils should have assured finance and extended powers and should be allowed to stand. There should be' no road board or.county council in existence thai could not employ an engineer at, say, .£3OO a year. Lacking such olHccrs members of tho boards had to pass works and were not competent to do so. • . Mr. J. G. Rutherford (Auckland) said road boards in the past had'done really good work,' and before they were abolished something better should bo devised. He thought three, members of the Local Government Board should be elective. A Supporter of the Bill. Mr. R. Wrathell (Bay of Islands) said if education administration were handed over to Provincial Councils' it would result in the people coming into contact at election time with candidates, and thus they would secure a better class of men to control education affairs. Generally speaking he supported the Local •Government Bill.

Mr. T. Kennedy (chairman Wcstland Hospital Board) said his views line! changed since ho camo (o and he now thought the Bill would lip produc- 1 tivo of much good its a. basis, to build on. Education as now carried on could .scarcely he improved upon.. Hospital administration also should he left as at present, but ho thought licensing committees could bo incorporated with tho Provincial Councils. These were expensive and not very useful bodies. If any good was to be done, each one must bo prepared to sacrifice, their local bodies.

At 3.15 p.m. Mr. R. Milligau (Waitaki) moved, and Mr. Storry (North Canterbury) seconded, a motion to closo tho discussion. This was supported by a number of members, including several who had not spoken. Mr. E. Maxwell (Taranaki) thought the whole question turned on finance. If the Government, roaded lands before they were thrown open for settlement, and then handed over the administration to the. local bodies it would be' an excellent thing. It would mean that the land would become immediately productive. It would also do away with tho vicious system of political grants. THE MINISTER'S REPLY. IMPORTANT ALTERATIONS AGREED TO. The- Hon. G. W. Russell said that ho desired to lefer to two or three points that had been referred to by various speakers. As to the proper reading of land before it was settled, the main principle to bo laid down was this: that tho main roads leading to a block should certainly ho opened up beioro settlers were placed on the land, and an opportunity should bo given for the making of district and side roads. He thought that would be a sound principle on which the work should be carried out. A remark had been made by a delegate from the Ohinemuri district with respect to the necessity of local bod-ies-having an assured finance. If every district had such a finance as Ohinemuri had there would not be so much need for a Local Government Hill. The Borough of Waihi received in gold duty as much as J.'23,00t in ono year, and the Ohinemuri County JK9l2— a total nf j;,30, ( ,)1G. Tho conference would see that these bodies had got a pretty well assured finance. He thought he was right if he interpreted the feeling of tho conference to be that it desired education eliminated from the Local Government Bill. (Hear, hear). It seemed clear to him that the desire of tho conference was that hospitals anil charitable aid should bo eliminated from the proposed Local Government Bill. (Hear, hear.) It was also equally o car that the large harbours could not bo included—with their huge debts, in some cases amounting to almost millions—under any Provincial Council scheme, because no statesman or financier l.ould think of starting .new public bodies throughout the country with huge debts. Flaring eliminated the three great divisions, education, hospitals and charitable aid, and harbours, the Provincial Council scheme had absolutely disappeared from tho Bill. (Applause.) In listening to tho discussion, and especially to the remarks of Mr. Studholmc, Air. Fisher (of Southland), Mr. Harley, and other gentlemen, lie had been greatly impressed with what he believed was the substantial feeling of tho conference, namely, that if they were to put their svstem of local government on a thoroughly sound and scientific basis the counties that were in existence must lie enlarged. (Hear, hear.) In order to secure that result there must be taken away altogether the financial inducement which now existed for new counties to bo set up—counties which had no business to bo set up.

Regarding Counties, Tho suggestion of Mr. Fisher, of Southland, was a most valuable one, namely, that an independent commission might lie established, possibly ono for both islands, which should ha've the responsibility laid upon it of trying to regroup the counties, so that—instead of there being the possiblo number of 133 counties, many of them consisting of what ho had described as a sort of glorified road boards—they might get a scientific reduction to about 43, or at the outside 50, really strong bodies, and they would takeover to a large extent the work which it was proposed should be done by the Provincial Councils. (Applause.) He was very pleased indeed to hear that the explanation he had given with regard to the Local Government Board had shown to the conference, and that tlie majority of the delegates now recognised that the proposal to establish a Local Government Board was not a revolutionary proposal, but was really an attempt to place upon, broader shoulders than those of the Minister for Internal Affairs the responsibility of dealing with the multiplicity of affairs which came before him from day to day in connection with the loenl, government of the country. Tf (die public had any conception of the constant inquiries that had to be made by one Department under his control in connection with internal affairs, in seeking to arrange matters between Hie conflicting interests of local bodies, afid also as In inaiiv other matters, thev would real- {■"■ with what happiness he looked forward In the pn»«ibilitr of ll"?re being a Local Government Board eot up. He

1 could assure Ihe conference that it would he his firm ilo'cnninaiiuii—belicviiifj as ho did in local self-government by (lie poopli- of the country—and ho would see if the responsibility was laid upon him, I hat I hero should be no infringement whatever upon the rights and responsibilities of the local governing authorities oil her in Ihe esiablishioent of (hat hoard, or after it. had been set up. Position of the Cities. The speeches of [lie .Mayors of Auckland, Wciliiiglnii, Duncdin, and nlso. those of other delegates who look a keen intercsl in connection with local government as it alTeeted the cities, had impressed the eon terrace with the fact that tho«e great cities, croivinjj as they were rapidly into positions of pride and place in. this country, were not; disposed to allow any interference whatever in eonnectioii with (heir powers of local self-Kovernnicnt. lie thought, however, (he time might cmno when possibly the cities would bo forced to rocoftnise that the responsibility of a great; city did not end as soon as it reached fhe'front. door. It was realised (hut the great cities must be streiiglhoned and maintained; hn( what were thoso rfties unless the development of the luickcnuntry went on in. order to provide employment for their industries, and for Ihe stream of commerce which was constantly passing through them. As ~Sh: Studholme had eloquently pointed out that morning tho intention of the Hill was to try and bring about snmo community of interest between the cities and the distant country districts. 11 might ho that the proposals in theBill went 100 far in that direction, and it. might be possible having made strong counties, jn.st as they had got strong cities, that in future there might I>6 some way of grouping up city and country alike. .He trusted that the committee, which was going to consider the question of tho tinance of local bodies would consider the position as lis liao sketched it, tind as it existed in New South Wales. In New South Wales the local bodies were divided into some six grades—varying from well-roadcd districts 'such as the Canterbury delegates knew so well to other districts quite differently situated. Nobody would think of placing such wealthy districts as lie had firs, indicated on tho same basis with regard to subsidies as some of the bush and swamp districts-of tho North Island, where it cost them, as had been pointed out, 10s. and 12s. a yard for the metal for their roads. (Hear, hear).

Roads and Bridges Grants. They would ail agree with him (hat the principle laid down by himself—and which he trusted Cabinet woulu endorse—namely, that subsidies in the future should be based upon a carefm consideration of the absolute necessities of tho ■district—was absolutely isoum.. It was a principle which he hoped would b? carried out and given effect to by the Legislature. (A,pplause.) If that principle wero carried out, they ought to be able to sweep away all tho extra roads and bridges grants, except in Ut far as it might be necessary to carry out the obligations of the Government in respect to tho making of tho main arterial roads up to' land which had been sold and which tho. Government had received money for. He thought those were obligations on tho part 'of tho State which should ho absolutely carried out (Applause.) It appeared to bo the general feeling of the conference that ridimshould contmue-diear, hcar)-and that it would be for tho electors of the ridin»s or the counties to say whether there should be riding accounts kept as well as road-mg-that those matters should be left to the county councils themselves. He would bo sorry if what had been said by one laranaki delegate as to what existed in one district there should become general throughout the Dominion. He was sorrv to find that in tho beautiful nroviucie'l district ot ■ Taranaki toll-gates were Placed across roads. He thought the vow tact of there being toll-gates in thi< a> ; e in order to stop tho passage from one dfstrict to another was an absolute proof that reform in our system of local government was absolutely necessary. (Hear hear.) • v ' Urban Areas. With regard to cities and towns, he thought one of the most important t unctions of tho conference would b» to suggest if necessary a means bv which tho greater cities might group to themselves their suburban population. Christ-' chinch had already drawn within itself not only the surrounding boroughs, but also a largo portion of the surrounding counties, and was now a very lor"e city JJjMinderstood that Wellington had done something -of tho same scr.f in sovral directions, and Auckland.'he believed proposed to do the same. If any surges, tion could come from the conference which would make it easier for the bi" cities to group within themselves thosesmrounding areas, he, as Minister for Internal Affairs, would bo very pleased to facilitate that work., Not oiiiv so, but he sincerely hoped that, exactly tho same process would be applied to 'some of the second-class towns, He noticed the ot!>»r day in going through the svstem of local government as it affected cities and towns in Victoria, that it was laid down that when a town reached a population of 20,000 it was entitled to be called a c'itv lie would Jike to see a race, starting from to-day, to see which town was going to be the next city in the Dominion—whether Aelson, Paliuerston North, Timaru, Wanganm, or Invcrcargill. Be wanted to facilitate the grouping of the towns in order to raise them as rapidly as possible- to the rank of cities. The Franchise, The question of the franchise was a difficult problem. Already in tho cities there was recognition of the residential vote; and when once any franchise was given it was never possible to take it away. So far as the cotiutv franchise was concerned, lie was not going to express an opinion upon that question. That was a matter, whatever the conference thought, that would be fought out very vigorously on the floor of the Hon«e of Representatives. Ho therefore did not think it would be wise or-prudent on his part at the present time to express an opinion upon that question. He thanked tho delegates for the very fine feeling they had shown throughout their deliberations. Ho believed the effect of tho conference would he educative not only so far as the country was concerned, bu{ also in respect to the Government and Parliament. He hoped after-the labours of the conference were finished that ho would bo able, with tho assistance of his staff, to formulate a measure which would have a chance of going through Parliament, and which, although not such a large reform as was contemplated in the Local Government Bill before fho conference, would bo the means of improving in very many directions local government throughout tho country. (Applause.)

On the motion of Mr. E. N. Liffiton (Wnnganui) n vote of thanks was accorded to the Minister for the fine spirit ho had manifested towards the delegates to the conference. THE COMMITTEES. MEMBERS APPOINTED. The following committees were appointed to consider, and report upon various parts of tho question of local government:— Local Government Board.—Provincial Councils and Subsidies, Grants, and Finance—Messrs. John Fisher, Waikato; E. Maxwell, Taranaki;_ E. N. Liffiton, Wanganui; F. Cflivper, Waipawa; J. Corkill, Wairoa; Dr. J. C. Collins, Cook; J. T. Quinn, Ellham; .T. G. Armstrong, Wairau; If. Everett, Nelson; T. Kennedy, Westlaud; J. Studholme, Ashburton; V. Milligan, Wailnki; 11. M. Driver," Otago i William Macalister, Southland; H. J. Middleton, Southland; K. Moore, Kaiapoi; A. D. M'Lcod, Wairarapa. Municipal with special relation to inclusion of contiguous districts and townplanning.—Messrs. C. J. Parr, Auckland; At. C. C'oyle, Auckland; H. Lowe, Thames; J. A. Nash, Palnierston North; ,1. W. M'Ewan, Petone; David M'Lnren, Wellington; .T. Wilson, Otngo; D, Stewart, Balclutha.

Counties.—Road and Town Boards— With special view to abolition and amalgamation of minor local bodies and enlargement of counties—Messrs. H", j Slade, Marsden; H. ft. "French, Anck-1 land; E. Allen, Auckland; .lohn. Bailey, Waikato: William llaihawuy, Stratford; Mason ClmmbtM's, Hawke's Bavj A E .lull. Hawke's Hut; W. .T. Welch, Wnil rnrapa: C. .1. lfarley, Nelson: J. Bruce, N'nrlh Canterbury; R. Evans, North CanInrburv: .1. Siorrv. North Canlcrburv W. S. Masliu, South Canterbury; f. N Orbell. South Canterbury; A. S. Orbe'll, niapn; .Inhn f'i:'h»r. PniitJiland; T(. m! Corbett, Thames; H. Bijjnell, Grey; d,

1.7. M'Eweu, Taurangii; E. Mown, Tnra- ' nnki. Hospital? mid Education —What, aileralions aro dc-ii-able in connection with existing bodies and control of education in all jts aspects?— Messrs. )!. Wratholl, liny of Islands; 11. Scliofield, Auckland; .1. li. Uuthcri'ord, Auckland; (i. .1. ilarhuiii, Auckland; William Kitchie, Wsniiiiniii; JC. S. WiSliams, Wniapit; Janus Trevor, Wellington; lto'ocrt Lee, Wellington; J'. W. Venn. Wellington; I). .1. Williams, Miller; 51. Dalziel, North Canterbury; .7. H. Davidson. North (.'alitor, linrvj V. H'orrcli, North Cniitorbui-v; 11. O'Neill, Otago; .(. 11. Walker, Otago; .John Smart, Vincent; .7. (.1. Wilson, M«nnwatil. 'The conference will resume at 10 a.m. to-day.