MR. PAYNE DECLARES HIMSELF.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1371, 23 February 1912, Page 6

MR. PAYNE DECLARES HIMSELF.

WILL BREAK HIS PLEDGE. MVELY SCENES. Mr. J. PAYNE (Grey Lynn) was applauded as ho -rose, lie said that ho had not realised when he promulgated his famous scheme 15 during the Grey Lynn election campaign that within such, a .short time, ho .was going to sec a portion of it realised. One of the very first notifications to come, to him from •■ Auckland had told him that its writers were glad'to see that tho Prime Minister had adopted scheme. 45. Tho main-features of the Governor's Speech were very much on tho .lines of his scheme. Both included nationalisation of industries, the acquirement of a big estate,on a debenture issue, and relief of the aged and sick. The Governor's Speech was not a death-bod confession of the late Liberal parly, but was rather the policy which had been brought forward at the'birth of a new party—tho combined-forces of Labour, and Liberalism. ■',- Government members: Hoar! hear! ■ Mr. Payne continued thai.his position as a Labour'representative. Was very clear, lie' must review the position strictly a.s it 'affected fho interests of the'workers whom ho represented. So far as the workers were concerned, the Liberal .'party and . the .Tory party were alike in the respect that "their interests, strictly speaking, w.ero not the interests-of Labour. Therefore, tho position he had to review was, what was the best "bargain ho could make for Labour under the present conditions, and that was the position be had to face. The position he had to face was I hat an extremely progressive radical policy had been brought <lown by tliC'party in power. Tho party not in power had had an opportunity to discuss that policy so as to afford him an opportunity of learning whether they were prepared to bring down similar radical measures. So far, the party not in power had not given him an" opportunity of learning wha ( ' their attitude was at the progressive palicy outlined in the Governor's Speech. He had heard the Speech condemned as being an insult to the intelligence of this House, but ho had not 'heard any reason advanced as to why the Speech should be considered an insult to the House. He hoped -that some' member of the party not in power would explain why his party should condemn the matter of tho Governor's Speech as an insult to this House. Ho was now awaiting with interest an honest utterance by :a member of the party not ■in power as to their opinion' of the humanitarian measures dealt with in the Governor's Speech.

A String of Admissions. Members of the Reform party might try to convince him that he had no right to review -the position since, no longer ago than Friday week, he had given his word to Mr.. Massey that he would vote against the Ward Government on a noconfidence motion.

Mr. Massey: Hear, hear. Mr. Payne went on to state that if he deemed it expedient to break a pledge for . the. benefit of the people he represented he would break his pledge without compunction. He had been told that by, doing so ho would commit political suicide, but ho would prefer doing so to committing .'.'labour, interest murder.". '■'■■.. . Government members: Hear, hear!■'Mr! Payne continued that, haying fully and unequivocally set forth his convictions on the question of keeping pledges, he now'felt, at liberty to itate ■ a- few facts" concerning,those pledges. Long before the first ballot', Mr. Murray, Opposition candidate for Grey Lynn, had com© to him and said. "Now, Payne, if either of us gets into the second ballot, I am prepared to help you ii yon are prepared to help me." Ho (Mr. Pivyno) said: "That seems a fair proposition, and I accept it." If he. had broken his pledge, it was not a pledge given because he wanted the Opposition vote. Doouments had been published in-reference to a meeting in Garland's office in Auckland, which showed that, in answer to an inquiry, he (Mr. Payne) had said that he would vote against tho Ward Government on n noconfidence movion on its land policy. Later, ho had nn interview w.ith Air. Massey, and told him that ho would vote against the Ward Government. Mr. Massey: Would you repeat all that you told me? Mr. Payne: On what occasion, Mr. Massey?

An Offer of Money. Mr. Massey: Last Friday week, when you told me about tho offer of money. Mr. Payne said that at the timo when ho made his pledge, he, in common with many peoplo in the north, believed that certain - inconsistencies were going on — certain extravagances. Ho did not say that these stories had been spread by tho gentlemen who sat on the Opposition benches, but certainly the stories were not circulated by friends of the Liberal party. Since he had been here ho had had an opportunity of hearing fully the various matters and innuendoes discussed, nnd he had had a most remarkable experience. Only on Monday night last a meeting was called with the object of asking him to resign, simply on tho rumour that he was going to vote in favour of the Prime Minister and against his pledges. The meeting ended in a fiasco. Instead of the meeting carrying a resolution to the effect that he should resign on account of hnving broken his pledge, a resolution was passed in the following terms:—"That this meeting of supporters of Mr. John Payne, in the Grey Lynn electorate, in view of tho opposition recently shown by the Opposition party nnd its press to organised Labour, more particularly in Auckland and Wellington, call upon their sentative to vote against the Reform party oh the no-confidence resolution now before tho House. 5 '

Some "Inclinations." Mr. Payne stated that the resolution was signed by the secretary of the General Labourers' Union in Auckland. He had 284 members of that union in his electorate. Under the conditions he had described, since the party in power had brought down a very radical and progressive policy, he must incline..to that party for obvious reasons, and in tho face- of innuenddes which were /still going about. Some of the Opposition might be inclined to think that he was inclined, towards the Ward party for reasons that, were not. obvious. One of the stories in circulation was that he had been bought by the Ward party for jSIOOO. It was plain that there were innuendoes still in circulation, because this had been told him by the Loader of the Opposition himself. Government members: Oh! Oh! and laughter.

An Exciting Incident, Mr. Massey rose, and, when the uproar from the Government benches had subsided, said, "I did riot catch the last sentence. I understood tho lion, gentleman to refer, to myself, and got up to courteously to ask him (o repeat it. Mr. Payne: I saiil that innuendoes Were being circulated,, and that informatina of tlw fact was conveyed to mo by the Leader of the Opposition himself. Mr. Massey: Hear, hear! 1 showed you a letter which I had received, and you said that yon had been offered money. Mr. Lauren son: By jovc! That is the hottest thing I ever-hoard in my life; The Hon. T. Mackenzie: Do I understand the I/cadcr of the Opposition to say that that lion, gentleman was offered •£"1000 bv the Government for his vote? Mo. Massey: That.was not what I said. Mr. Mackenzie: I accept the hon. gentleman's statement. Mr. Payne said that none of the. statement bv the Opposition that, the Government* partv could not possibly carry out. the matters dealt with- in the Governor's Speech would have any effect upon him. Any attempt to influence him by specious arguments would be _ futile. He stood for measures and not for men, and having been promised measures, he believed that from his position in the Labour section ho would lie able to ' force those measures and' so serve the interests of the Labour people whom he represented. Hn did not suggest that any member of the nouso was responsible for rumours that were current at election time. Tie was glad that ho had heard Sir Joseph ■Ward's repudiation of those rumours and ba*e slanders, and he had heard nothing from the Opposition to the effect: that tho Prime Minister's' denial., were incorrect: Xpr-'-md h" bflwd. n siusrle fact that wouM r-uiMtiotiate tlw ciuusei oi reckless. sM

plunging finance with which the Governmeat was indicted by the Opptisilion.

The Railways System. Having been an employee of an English railway company, and, having travelled on the host systems in England, he. considered that the people of .New Zealand showed the worst lack of patriotism by continually crying out against tho railways system, of which Hie worst line was no "worse than the worst in England. Ho could not reconcile the manner in which the Opposition described the increaso in railwnv fares and freights as taxation with their criticism of the administration under which the railways had not paid until the Hon. J. A. Millar had applied the remedy by enlarging his sources of revenue. * 'Mr. Payne declared that he had entered the House with an open mind to listen to the arguments from both sides of tho House. Never in all his experience had he heard such dishwater arguments as those advanced by the Tory party to substantiate'the-statements circulated by Torv partisans during the last few months.

Grey Lynn Election. After some references to financial topics, Mr. Payne returned to the subject of his politica'i attitude. He said he had not heard anvthing he could pass on io tho electors of Grey Lynn to justify him in voting out the Liberal party on a noconfidence motion. (Ministerial applause.) In Grev Lvrin at tho first ballot more "than 5000'-'electors'voted for the Liberal and Labour'parties out of'a total of a little short of 7000 and only 1501) voted for Conservative interests. A number of the latter had informed him that they -voted for him at the second ballot, and that if thev Had thought he had a chanco the'v would h-jve voted for him at the first ballot. . He. had now heard both Leaders "in the House, and, bearing in mind the'electors of Grey Lynn, he did -not propose to fly in tho face of those electors. He would put himself in a position he could not maintain if he voted against the Liberal party that had ;donc so much for the -workers. "Pledge, or no pledge," said Mr. Payne, "I will not vote against the Liberal party on 'a no-confidence motion." He admitted that tho Liberal party was not perfect, but there would be a combination of Liberal, Radical, and Labour interests, and, with such a combination, Labour could hope to obtain a majority in the House.

His Future Tactics, The Into elections would be a salutary lesson to the party. (Ministerial applause.) The workers .would ho ready to throw their -weight with the Conservative interests,, .if. need .be,. to. bring about a reconstruction of a Government which showed a tendency to become autocratic when it should be democratic. The late election would also bo a lesson to tho • workers, and whilst it might be expedient for them to oust an autocratic democracy they had not strengthened the capitalistic and Conservative interests. The so-called Reform party would be known in future by its true* title of the Tory party. The position he took' up was one. of strength for the .Labour party. If they ' kept tho Liberals in power they could look with reason to making them keep the pledges given in the Governor's Speech. If tho Liberal party retained office, as ho believed it would, he, as one of the Labour members, would be in a position to compel it to pass Labour measures for the benefit of the people he represented. He was at liberty to vote against'them on a future no-confidence if Labour interests were not conserved. The coming division would show that- the votes" of Liberal, Radical, and Labour parties were against capitalistic interests and in the interest of tho general good. The 'way- to stop industrial unrest was to 'nationalise oiir'industries. Ho spoko strongly 'in' favour of State enterprise, and "'a-'State bank: monopoly as' against private enterprise. In Great Britain individuals made money out of the dead, because they owned the cemeteries. Ho advocated a monopoly in State fire insurance, and said the gentleman who controlled the State Department hero had informed him that he could work the whole insurance of this Dominion without any increase of capital. That meant that h'is profits from insurance would bo ,in the neighbourhood of a million pounds. ■■.-' ,i-;-.