THE CHARGES.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1333, 10 January 1912, Page 6

THE CHARGES.

MR, FULLER'S STATEMENT,

"WHITE'S CASE."

Mr. Herdhian was then invited to proceed with his case, and to let Inspector Puller make his.statement. He was_ asked ' also to deal with tho original charges, urnl not with tho later, confidential set The first charge, dealt with was that called "White's case." . ■ • , ■Inspector-Fuller sated (in reply, ,to .Mr. Herdman) that he had bsen m, the tramways employ on November 9, last year. Hβ boarded a car on which White was working as conduotor, and inspected the tickets. A lady in the car had a ticket'in her possession which did not egree with the" way-bill; # ( had suggested to'him that .there had teen some irregularity , , and that' tho -ticket : had been .sold- on -the trip before. He .spoke to the lady, showed her ■ the' way-bill, drew her atteutiQn.ito* tho.number or the ticket,-and , also, .showed, the iicket ..to another,.passenger.-.''.■.lμ accord with.Or- , dinary' practice he. reported .to the • trarnu manager,'and tho , report ins- sent -along to Mr. Eichardson. (Copy of report protlucod.V 'On tho following , morning witness went to Mr. .TanWs office, and no- •' ticed that an alteration had been made in "theT.way-.bill. Theroupoa he made another report. As a result of this, Conductor- White was either dismissed or : BU.ipe3a'e"d;''"Witn«?s"'had nothing to do with tho matter beyond making his rc- • port. ' White appealed, and his appeal was allowed. Witness considered that it •was his duty to report the discrepancy— •flight as it may havo ; been—to'.the traffic' manager. Hβ had' not (as tho union had suggested) gone .-.to-the pasKnsfer- concerned, and asked-her to support his statement. To Councillor MTCenzis: He had never had any unplnas-iatness. with Conductor White. Hβ had not known him in tho ■ Anckland semce.

To Councillor' Hindmarsh: It was true that he had heard from a person in Auckland that this conductor had been

dismissed fron the Takapuna Tramways pcrvice for ticket irregularities. That information, however, had been volunteered to him. The Court had decided that the evidence was- not sufficient, and that decision had been practically reachfd on the day before ■•vituess's evideuca Jiad been tendered. The board had practically prejudged the case.

Too Many Questions. ; , 'At this stage, the Acting-Mayor suggested that questions more searching than wnS'Contemplated wero being.asked. Mr. Hintlrcarsh protest-id indignantly: Ton can't stop mo becaim; yon think I ought to he stoppod. Point mo out a rnli! that I can't ask questions. , - • Tho Acting-Mayor, replied that Councillor Hindmarsh was,excoeding tho.duties of councillor and acting as counsel for the other side. '■■■:.' .

Councillor Hindmarsh: Where aro you going to stop? It's/all nonsense going on like this. I don't wish to take up time, tut I wish to arrive at the truth of this, and to find put whether Inspector Fuller should ..remain «n inspector any longer. • Councillor, , Fletcher also suggested that, us.Mr.' Herdnian ;.was. asking, questions, , councillors should also have tho. opportunity of doing so. V ' " ! 'In.'the , end it was arranged (after furthfiiv lirßiiinniit Touiid tho table, in. which the chairman. and Messrs. Herdman, Hinrtmafsh. FletSlutr, and Shirtcliffo took jjart) , .that. .Inspector-Fuller should go on with, his statement, but-- the suggestion was offered, on, the one hand to Mr. Herdman; to make his : , examination less detailed, and,- on tho , other hand, to councillors ,to . refrain'- from over-mncii cross-fiiiestidnin.j. This had tho effect of expediting progress considerably.

Important Denials. ■ Councillor Shirtcliflfß asked Inspector Fuller whether the Appeal Board held unanimously that tho v/ny.-bill had been altered. Several councillors objected to the question, and tho difficulty was overcome by the Toityi Clork reading the finding of tho board, which stated that that bodv had carefully considered the evidence adduced by the parties in tho case, «nd was of opinion that there was not sufficient evidence that an alteration had been made in tho way-bill by Conductor White. Councillor Shirtcliffe asked whether Inspector Fuller had expressed an intention of getting White dismissed if ho could. Inspector Fuller: No, I never made any such remark. , ' Councillor Shirtcliffo: Did you tell other inspectors to watch White. Inspector Fuller: Xo. Councillor Fletcher asked the inspector whether, when he had reported in eases of this kind, his duty ended. Inspector Fuller: So far as the report is concerned. Councillor Fl-etr.hor: So for as tho caso fc concerned. Mr. Herdman asked you if your duty ended wheu you had "reported, and you said that it did. Inspector-Fuller: That is so.

Further questions were asked and answered as to the poriod at which Condnctor White resumed dnty.

Councillor Barber Protests. Councillor Cameron was proceeding to ask Mr. Richardson some questions when Councillor Barber mtervoned, to remark that h<; objected to the case being proceeded with on thaw lines. Ho had understood that Inspector Fuller was to make a statement which would connteract the charges that had been published. ' ' ' ■ The Acting-Mayor concurred.-\and Councillor Cohen also endorsed this riew of the position. . ■ - ! Approving remarks fell from a number of councillors ;when- _ltr. Hordman said that, u' he were permitted to briefly question his client, and put forward a. general Statement, he could bring- the business to a conclusion in'a •quarter of an hour or twenty minutes. ' . ' ' . Answering Councillor- Cameron, Inspector Fuller said that ha had eiamined with a gla£3 ja

Conductor White's case, and hud discerned indications that it had been altewl. ■Mr. Herdman (to Inspector Fuller): When you inspected' the train,' nnd found, a wrong ticket in Miss I'o.so's postfoiision,' it was your duty to report it?—"Ves." And you did report it , ?—" Yes." Second Charge—Kernander's Case. Tho n-wct charge referred to .Kernander's case'. Inspector Fuller derailed the circumstances of- tho. enso tad utated that, Keriinndcr was acquitted by the Appeal Board on a'charge of dishonesty, but was adjudged guilty of neglect-of duty, aud lost six months' seniority. Answering his counsel, inspector Fuller said that it formed. no part of his duty to frame charges. It-was his duty to report irregularities as ho 'discovered them. , Bils of Ancient History. Mr. Ilerdmaii remarked Hint charges 3 and i related to tho period before Mr. Fuller . became an inspector, and asked whether tho council wished to proceed with them. V Tho reply was a', unanimous negative. . (lu(!stioii«d by Mr.. Herdman, Inspector Fuller said thnt ho knew nothing about tho iiext charge—that' he "had accused A. Mills of reporting him for street betting. Ho had never been reported for this offence, and did not know how ho could refute the charge. Ho gave an equally wnphatic denial to a succeeding charge tliat he had "spent ihost of his timo on and olF'-.duty at tho Kelburae Avenue gambling." The next charge ran: "Wasting time when on duty watching ' the Auckland team practise. Then he went to have a. bet." . '■-. . , ./ In reply to this, Inspector Fuller said that ho had watched the football practice during 'a meal- relief. He produced a in Vibstantiation of this statement. It was'ti-u'e, Inspector Fuller admitted, that he had a bet on the match. . ■ i Auother charge was, "Insulting a lady at Brooklyn. v Inspector Fuller replied that ho. knew nothing of this matter. It had come to his ears that it was common talk that he had been brought beforo tho Tramways Committee and charged with insulting a la<ly. This was not true. He himself sent in. a complaint to the Tramways Committee on the subject. Mr. Herdman read .a letter from the town clerk to ■ Inspector Fuller stating that no such chargo had been mado against him. \ Justifying Reports. Inspector Fuller gave .detailed explanations of the reasons for which he had reported Conductors Turner and CrumpTurner for apparent irregularity, and Crump for." being Tato iu collecting his fares. Witness was satisfied , that the answer giveii by Conductor Turner to the management was full and frank and satisfactory. 'He did not know what the management .did about Crump's case. He gave particulars also: of why he had reported Conductor Wallace. The charge wns that he permitted a passenger to travel on city lines on a Karori ticket. Ho had reported Conductor Broughton for what-seemed to him to be-ticket irregularity, but Broughton's explanation that ho had torn off two tickets instead of one was accepted as satisfactory. He had reported Motorman Patton for driving too fast' with a crowded car. There was no suggestion that ho was trying', to- "get even" with Patton. . '"■•■'■ The Other Chargei, The next, cliarg-o was "Wanting to fight Carroll." . It .appeared that one, exConductor Carroll, who was travelling on .'a car, had said to Fuller that he would ."fix him up," and witness said in , reply that if Carroll came out on tho blocksho. (witness) would fix him up; Tho matter ,was reported to the committee, and the committee said that hisveonduot had. bnea'satisfactory,' but that he ought to'keep his temper when dealing with 'such. men. . -- "Suggesting remarks to Holland aud Matthews l'e paying their fares," was the text of another charge. Witness denied simply that any improper remarks whatever were made.

With regard to the alleged insulting remarks to L. M'Kay, witnpss said that he hnd "no ' recollection of ■■anything'of'the' sort, and Jlr. Richardson stated that no complaint h:ul been received by the management from Mr. M'Kay or any oth'er person about tho case. •'•-■ Mi... Fuller then stated, in re:ply to a charge that he had snatched tickets, from a passenger, that he knew nothing of' any such case. And again Mr. Eichardson said that no report had been made to tho management on tho matter.

The Duty of the Union. Mr. Herdman, in the course of a brief closing statement, remarked that his client had appeared to answer the gravo' charges advanced against him. He had placed himself absolutely at the disposal of the council and had made a perfectly freo and fair statement. The Tramways Union themselves admitted that tho charges were grave and he considered that tho union, haying gono to • tho length of making the charges, should have considered it a duty to come forwardwith witnesses and evidence to substantiate their allegations.

Councillor Fitzgerald, referring to tho Carroll' episode, said that ho desired to place one fact on record. An impression seemed to obtain that the council had treated this matter as a joke. Tho records of the .committee showed that, after hearing evidence (including Inspector Fuller's), decided to inform Mr. Carroll that his complaint had been dealt with, and that nothing of the kind was likely to occur again. It was further decided that Inspector Fuller should be lectured. The Acting-Mayor: That is what Mr. Fuller has said.

Councillor Shirtcliffe suggested- that the council's best coarse now would bo to on' the understanding that the matter would be finally dealt with when the rescission motion came up on Jaftuary 25. Ho was not going to express any opinion at that stale on the merits o"f ' the case, ■ but thought that-all the members of the council would be.g-lad of a little time in which to digest the statement that they had had from Inspector Fuller. He considered that the council had done quite the right thing in •hearing Inspector Fuller.' His own great regret in the matter was that the.union had, not ■ seen ito way to como forward and substantiate the charges.. That, of course,, was the affair of f.ho union, however much tho council might regret tho attitude it (the union) had taken up; At lea't, tho council had given Inspector Fuller an opportunity of replying to the charges. It only romained now to be decided, when the rescission motion came up, whether Inspector Fuller, was to retain his present position or not. Councillor Shirtcliffe then moved that tliK council adjourn until January 25.

Councillor Cameron seconded tho motion.