TALKED OUT.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1268, 25 October 1911, Page 5

TALKED OUT.

TAUPO LAND AND RAILWAY

PROPOSAL.

ADVERSE REPORT.

INTERESTING DISCUSSION IN PARLIAMENT.

Tho following report upon the petition of tho Taupo Totara Timber Company by tho Special I'nrliamentary Committoo which recently conducted a lengthy inquiry was presented to Parliament yesterday by Mr. T. H. Davey (chairman of the committee) Tho Taupo 'i'otarft Timber Company Committee, to whom was referred tho petitions of the Taupo Totara Timber Company, Ltd., and A. S. Gralmm and 35 others, lias carefully considered tho same, and has arrived at the conclusion that, in view of the important issues involved in tho petition of the Taupo Totara Timber Company, and more especially having regard to the vagueness of tho proposals contained in the said petition, in so far as they affect tho future disposal and settlement of the 200,000 acres of land which the said company desire ; to acquire from tho Natives, the committee is' of opinion that the whole question should be held over for tho consideration of Parliament next session. Tho committee is further of opinion that, in tho meantime, full inquiry should bo made by tho Government as to the best; means of connecting Lake Taupo by rail with tho existing railway system, so as to facilitate the early settlement of the large areas of Crown and .Native lands in the Taupo district. Air. Davey moved that tho report bo referred to the Government for consideration. Views of Mr. Herries. Air. W. H. Herries (Taurunga) hoped that tho Government, in view of the report by tho committee, would delay any action they had intended to take. Tho Primo Minister: Tho matter has never been before tho Government.

Mr. Herries remarked that the Government could, of course, issue an Order-in-Council without reference to the House.

Tho Primo Minister: We don't intend to do anything. Mr. Herries continued that this proposal had constituted an attempt to establish ono of tho largest monopolies that had ever tried to get a grin on this country. Tho railway represented only a small portion of the proposal of the promoters. A great deal was to bo said for thoso who wero willing to help themselves, but this proposition went much further. There had been a proposal to obtain an option over tho whole of tho licensed houses in tho Taupo district, and to purchase 200,000 acres of land from tho Natives, when it was known that similar individuals (tho Tongariro Company) possessed large timber and trainway rights, which were to bo further extended by a. clause in tho "Washingup" Bill. • If this proposal had gone through a big monopoly would have obtained a grasp on the wholo centre of tho North Island. He hoped tho Houso would put its foot down, and, declining to bo deceived by the specious idea that thev wero going" to open up the Land ami facilitate settlement, refuse absolutely to creato such a monopoly.

■ Mr. 6. AV. Forbes (Hurimui) raid that on tho Committee ho moved: "That the piayer of the petitioners bo not granted." He "did so, because lie thought the company ought to bo informed definitely that there was no chance o£ its proposal being agreed to. Ho believed that the opinion of tho Honso was strongly against any sale of a largo area of Native land to a private company. (Hear, hear.) Tho company wished to acquire 200,000 acres of Native land, and the •effect of the Committee's report would be to let them think they' might get it. It would be merely "stringing'them on/' " Ho was also strongly against granting any further authority for tho construction of a private railway. ■ Tho construction of railways should bo a function of tho State, "and new railways should bo made part of tho existing system. Mr. Forbes also stated that Mr. Davey was the only member _ of the Committeo who supported his motion.

The Hon. R. Jl'Kenzie slated that the clause in the "Washing-up" Eill empowering the Tongariro Timber Company to build two miles ef railway was in completion of tho power granted in tho Native land "Washing-up" Bill of IPOS, when it was supposed that tho lino would only bo required to pass over Native land. Protest End Atnondment, Mr. C. H. Poole (Auckland West) said that any favourable recommendation from the Committee would have met with much hostility from the Ilouse. In his opinion the motion proposed by Mr. Forbes definitely protesting against the company's proposition should have been adopted by tho Committee. Sir. li. 11. Isitt (Christchurch North) , moved "That tho mayor o£ the petitioners bo not entertained." lie said tho whole country was seething with suspicion with reference to the Government aml its administration of Native lands, principally as a result o£ tho statements of members of the Opposition. The people feared that tho "Government was going to aid another large swindle. Mr. Massey: Like Mokau; Mr. Isitt maintained that it was improper to part with such a lingo area of Nativo land in one transaction. Mr. M'Laren (Wellington East) seconded the amendment. 110 agreed with tho member for llurunui that to defer consideration of this matter until next session was merely stringing the petitioners on.

Mr. A. M. Myers (Auckland East) deprecated the wild language of tho member for Chri.stclnirch North. It was quite unnecessary. livery member on the committee was in favour of tho present national system of railways. But they wero faced by tho fact that the Government had declined to procced with the construction of tho Taupo Tailway. People in tho north were very anxious that' this land at present monopolised by Naiivo owners should be opened up and developed. Tho position of tho committee was that they could not approvo the proposal of the petitioners, but they desired tho Government to earnestly consider the problem of opening up this land. They could not let one and a half million acres of land lie idle. Personally he liad not a sixpennyworth of interest in tho whole district. Privato Enterprise and Railways. Mr. G. W. Russell (Avon) considered that tho recommendation to defer consideration until next session was a wise one. Tho crux of the report was tho recommendation that the Government should consider tho best method of linking up Lake Taupo with the existing railway system. It was of the 111111051' importance to this country that the- pumice lands in tho Taupo district should bo settled. Ho did net agree that there should be no such thing as privato railways in New Zealand. It was due to the enterprise of the Manawatu Company that' a railway had been constructed between Pnekakariki and I'oxlon. Provided that it was laid down that freights and faros should bo controlled by tho Government and that the Government retained the right to purchase on a fixed bnsis at any timo it chose, he saw 110 objection to the utilisation of privato capital • in railway construction. The Taupo railway would not only benefit Nativo lauds, but will open up nearly half a million acres of Crown land. 110 very strongly supported the whole report. Mr. H. j. Greenslado (Waikato) opposed tho amendment, and contended that if the State could not open up this land, it should not adopt a dog-in-the-manger policy, and prevent privato enterprise from doing it.

Jlr. W. Fvaser (Wakatipu) stated that before dealing with a question such as this, tho House had a right to expect a lead from the Government as to what its policy was. This was a country naturally adapted, in the main, to small holdings, but the Taupo district was not a poor man's country. Mr. W. TX H. Macdonahl (Bay of Plenty) said the committee lisul gone patiently and exhaustively into the question, and its finding was reasonable. Mr. Jlacdonaid complained that men who had never Had their feet o" tho pavements of cities posed as authorities on the land question. Recently 20,000 acres of Crown land in the Taupo district had been leased "or tweiity-nno years, at u rent of t£2o a year, XI per thousand acres.

This was tho valuable land About which there had been >o much talk. Jf tho committee had brought in favourable recommendations it would h.vre n ado drastic conditions against monopoly. It would pay' the Government of tins country to give the Taupo laud for nothing if they could thereby not poojiu? to bmld fences and so present rrbbivs invading the good land in Poverty Hay and in tho Wnirarupa. Mr. Massey on Orders-in-Council. Mr. Massey said he had hoped that, at t/iw late period oT the .session, a mscus>7bn on the report of the committee would have been and would have been avoided, lie was pleased to hear the statement by (he Prime Minister that nothing would be done in this matter until the Hotis-e had considered it again next wstfou. As to the Ohler-in-Council provision, lie maintained that tho of an Ordor-in-Councij was not in compliance with the limitation provisions of either tne I,and Act or tho Native Land Act. It might- l>e in compliance with tne letter of the?e Acts, but it was not in compliancc with their spirit. These provisions had been designed (o cover the dealings of the State with settlers. It had never been contemplated that tho Crown should be empowered to poll huge blocks of land to speculators. Ite was very strongly of opinion that no Order-in-Council provisions of this kind should be given elVect to until the matter had been laid before Parliament. Mr. Massey declared himself confident, that eventually the Taupo lands would bo successfully opened and settled. As to tho railway proposal he contended that whore a branch line was required and where peoplo were prepared to construct it for themselves, thev should be allowed to do so. But there "should be an understanding that if anything in the way of monopoly was intended or if the lino was otherwise required, the Government should be able to tako it over on payment of fair compensation. He hoped to seo the Government embody this proposal in its policy. Attitude of the Government, Sir Joseph Ward said he had come to t?io conclusion that afternoon that no ono was in the least hurry to wind up the session. They had wasted the afternoon on a matter of no importance at all. Whatever might bo done now, tho company could not be prevented from petitioning again next session. JIo was now, as ho had 1 ahvays been, dead against the construction of private railways in this country. As a public man he had always been in favour of the State owning all tho railways in this country and was . so still. It did not matter what the committee might have Tecomraended, nothing would have beeu done witnout the authority of the House. Ho knew nothing of" this company privately. Ho took tho* opportunity of 'saying that he had never had a shilling in Native lands or in any business except his own, the exception of a 'lew newspapers, lie had declined invifcatious to get m on tho ground floor of mining companies, insurance companies, freezing companies, shipping companies, trading companies, and every possible kind of company since lie became a Minister of tho Crown, This bad been his consistent policy, lliis Taupo Company was owned by people on the Opposition s-ido of the House. Mr. Fraser: "On both sides. lou know that, as well as I do!" Tho Prime Minister said ho had tho list of shareholders. Opposition members: Head it. The Prime Minister faid the company was certainly practically owned by people who were opposed to tho Government. ,I.i This drew another chorus of denials from the Opposition benchcs, coupled with suggestions to put the list of shareholders on record, and "Head it out!" . The Prime Minister did not respond. The Government, he said, was not going to extend the existing tramway over the sixteen miles between its present terminus and Taupo. Ho had never been opposed to tramways, because there were hundreds of them. Tho other day three men had come down from Rotorua to ask the Government to construct a railway on each side of Lake Taupo. IT ft had given them his honest opinion that iho, country was not at all likely to undertake tho construction of lines for the next quarter of a century at least. For this, ho had been found fault with. Ho was not in a position to pronounce an opinion upon the petition, not. having as yet read it. Any apprehension that tho Government might improperly alienate any large area of land might 'be dispelled. The Government would not ; act in a matter of this kind either during that session or in any other without tho authority of Parliament. When there matters came before the Government they would be laid, in turn, before Parliament. Other Speeches.

Mr. R. A. Wright (Wellington South) disputed tho statement of tho Prime Minister that (he company was mainly owned by Oppositionists, and ventured an opinion that the principal owners were Government supporters. .Mr. W. 11. Herries (Tatiranga) stated that any member who looked up the appendices for 1!)03 would find fliafc tho Native Affairs Committee went very fully into the whole matter. In the same piace would be lound a list of shareholders. To him it seemed (hat the shareholders of the company, so far as he knew their polities, were pretty evenly divided. The original concessions to the Taupo Timber Company Lad been granted, not bv legislation, but by Order-in-Council. 'Tho solicitors employed in the transaction v;oro i'mdlay, Dalziell and Co. This firm of solicitors seemed to ue more enterprising than any other in the colony because they later got a e|ause put into ono of tho Native Bills giving the Tongariro Company the right to buy Nativo timber. The terms granted to the Natives were, he believed, fair and equitable. Mr. Ngata: Why use tho solicitor's name?

Mr. Ilerries: Because it seems to mo that if I wanted an Order-in-Council 1 would go fo that firm of solicitors! Mr. Ngata: What about other solicitors?

Air. Herdman: Haven't got a hope! Sir James Carroll urged that the thing might surely bo judged upon its own merits. It was rather unfair of the lion, member to refer to timber companies which had been assisted by legislation. Each case had been carefully scrutinised by the Nativo Affairs Committee. Its members had agreed unanimously to legislation of this kind, and it was rather Into in the day to suggest in an oblique manner that this legislation had been improperly passed. The committee had always done its best, keeping in view tho interests of both sides. Tho .Natives who had entered into an agreement with tho Tongariro Company had done very well. Something must bo done to stimulate settlement of unoccupied areas in the Taupo district. Taupo would undoubtedly become attractive as time went on, on account of its scenic beauties and for its thermal and volcanic features. iN'o vote was taken. Mr. Glover was on his foot at the 5.30 p.m. adjournment, and tho motion was talked out.

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