PARLIAMENT.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1248, 6 October 1911, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

THE COUNCIL.- •' CLEARING OFF THE BILLS. PATENTS DESIGNS & TRADEMARKS. Tho Legislative Council mot'at 2.30 yesterday afternoon, and spent its sitting iu disposing of measures from tho Houso of Representatives. The ATTORNKY-GENERAL moved for leave to introduce thd Judiciary Bill. Tho Bill was read a lirst time. Tho Administration A»t Amendment Bill was received from tho House of Representatives, and was read a first fcimo. PASSED WITHOUT AMENDMENT. Tho Hutt Railway and Road Improve; mont Amendment Bill, tho Hauraki Plains Amendment Bill, tho Grcytown Town Lands and Hospital Lands Exchange Bill, tho Oamaru Municipal Exchange and Market Reserve Leasing Bill, tho Waikowhai Park Bill, tho Papakaio WaterRace District Validation Bill, and the Sir Donald M'Lcan Memorial Park Bill vere all put through their Committee Btage, and reported without amendment. In each instanco tho third readings wero agreed to without discussion, and tho Hills passed. PATENTS DESIGNS AND TRADE MARKS. Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL, speaking on the motion to go into Committee on tho Patents Designs and Trade Marks Bill, remarked that a number of suggested amendments had been put forward 'by various people interested, and these hud been sent to him, and had had the consideration of tho Crown la\r Office. It had been, felt that a number of thoso amendments should bo rejected, and consequently tho amendments proposed in Committee would bo limited to a few which would bring tho present Bill into conformity with the English Bill on which it was modelled. There was, however, ono important omission, which exposed persons who had already entered into a contract to the risk of having tho contract cancelled without any claim to compensation. This was to bo remedied. 'Julio amendments wero really consequential. In essence and in principle all that was now in" the Bill had been tried in.England and Australia.

Jn Committee.on tho Bill, the nroendmout indicated, and several minor amendments were- mndo at tho instanco of the Attorney-General.

Tho Hon. J..E. SINCLAIR moved a now clause in regard to the charges made by patent agents for scouring patents abroad, the object of -which was to forco the agents to give to tho person chargeable a detailed hill of costs, seven days provions to commencing any action for tho recovery of fees, charges, or disbursements for any business transacted. Tho amendment, said Mr. Sinclair, simply placed patent agents in tho same position as legal practitioners were in beforo they could sue for a bill of costs. The newclause was agreed to.

Tho Bill was reported with amendments, and. tho third reading was set down for next sitting day. The Conncil adjourned <ai 4.10 p.m. until Friday of next week.

TIE MOUSE.

AN ALL-NIGHT SITTING. PARTY DRAGOONING. Dawn, lightened tho windows of the ilonse of Kopresentatives before its members went home yesterday morning. I'rom half-past twelve until fivo o'clock a tired Assembly, from which moro than half the members were absent, laboured upon tho Estimates 1 ' of the Department of Education, which total this year considerably over one million' sterling. The Hon. D. Buddp was in charge of tho Estimates during- tho greater part of the sitting, in place- of the Hon. T. Mackenzie, who had previously piloted the Estimates of tho Department of Agriculture, Commerce, and Tourists. Busiuessliko discussion was confined in the main to members of the Reform party. Tho Government members maintained a reserve which lent an air cf probability to Opposition accusations that they were silent under the whip. Mr. HAEDY (Selwyn) declared that the school committees were being starred-fa death under tho existing financial arrangements and could not carry on. Mr. WEIGHT said it Was a shamo that, painstaking committeemen should bo compelled to go round with tho hat for charity and organise entertainments in ordor to raise enough money to carry on their duties.

» Mr; GUTHRIE (Oroua) said that in his district a number of committees had threatened to resign unless they were granted additional fluids. Tho boards paid, tho full amounts'to which the com.wittess were enlitled, but tho cost of laibour and other expenses had increased'. Tho Government suould make tho ad'ditionat ninepenco capitation grant. To tho children'it meant having a five instead of going without it in winter weather and having a clean school instead of a dirty one.

Tho Hon. T. MACKENZIE said lie was porry that Ito was not ablo to respond to this appeal.

Mr. GUTHRIE said the allowance foi conveying children to school was inadequate. Mr. Jus. ALLEN said that tho mOO spent on- freo test books would bo batter spent upon tho ordinary purposes of Wards and for tho conveyance of children to school. Reports of tho inspectors upon these freo books had shown that they wore ■unsatisfactory, fc'ouio indication should to given as to tho presort position of.the pupil teacher, and as to tho position ho was likely to occupy in future. l The MINISTER stated that the pupil teacher was Ixdng gradually eliminated. Messrs. Clark and Ilino asked tho Min, j.'.-ter whether teachers would ho givon anv satisfaction in their demand for the right to appeal against transfer. Mr. MACKENZIE replied that teachers were given the right of appeal in a Bill which had been, prepared. Mr. WRIGHT moved that tho item of £56,-100 for general administrative purposes, capitation, etc., be reduced by £5 03 an indication that the extra capitation Errant of ninepence should bo made to school committees.

Tho motion was defeated by 21 votes to 17.

Mr. HABDT asked why it was that members on tbo other side-wero not discussing the Estimates. Did they think libat at two m the racriiang they were not Jit to carry on tho important work o: dealing with three-quariors of a million of money? Or lad tho Whips told them not to talk? Mr. Taylor: Talk about the Estimates and not about us Mr. Hardy: You are not doing your duty. ° ' Franchise Extension. Mr. WRIGHT moved the reduction by £o of tho item, "Additional Grant to Education Boards, .£'3250," as an indication that Education Boards should' bo elected by householders and parent or guardians of, children. Tho present svstom had served its purpose- ami done good work, but tho plan had been adopted of olecting Harbour Boards and Charitable Aid Boards on an extended franchise, and tho same might very well bo done in tho : case of Education Boards. Mr. D. GUTHRIE (Oroua) remarked that some special knowledge on tho part of board members was desirable. This mijrUt not bo assured under tho system proposed by the member for Wellington South, but he saw no great objection to be change boiiis; made. Mr. Guthrie enied that in any odc instance injustico .(id been done to teachers owing to the '■sence of provision for appeal against ;t nsfers. Transfers were not made ar'rarily, and were made always with a : pw to promotion. Taking away the • iwer of transfer from tho boards was iking away a powur from them, tho il/scnco of which would le.ll against tho interests of ediicaton. . Mr. D. M'LAHEN appealed to tho common sense of the member for Wellington South to withdraw his amendment. It would affirm nothing definiteMr. ,T. P. LUKE declared that tho alteration advocated would mean that i majority oi board morabers be..

elected in the citie3. The present system ensured that members in touch with the different country schools should bo returned to tho boards.

Mr. HARDY again twitted Governmont members with being silent under tho Whip. Somo further remarks by Mr. Hardy were interrupted by tho Chairman, who ruled that tho member must confino himself to tho question of reducing the vote. Later tho Chairman rnled that a question of policy could not 'bo discussed upon Supply. Jlr. A\ RIGHT said,it was exceedingly amusing to note how a motion to extend tho frnnchiso was approached by members who had.screamed themselves hoarse in the Houso about democracy. The member, for Wellington East had said that it was useless for a member to introduce .a question of thi.s importance without giving details. All that members could do was to get a proposal affirmed and trust to tho Government taking it up. . Under an electoral ,system the country districts would bo' "represented just as at present. Mr. Hardy opposed tho amendment. Mr. Wright's amendment was defeated on a division by 28 votes to 12. ; Mr. NOSWORTHY moved, at three o'clock, to report progress. Tho motion was defeated by 27 votes to 13.

After further discussion, Mr. G. M. Thomson moved, at 3.20 a.m., to report progress, but tho motion was deteated by 23 votes to 13. Control of Training Colleges, Mr. G. Jf. THOMSON said he thought that tho Department had not sufficient control over tho young people who went through tho training colleges. They were given too much liberty in regard to tho choice of subjects, and sometimes did not chooso with au eyo to future requirements. These young people had to teach science more or less in the schools; they also had to teach nature study, and they wero.not grounded in these subjects. Mr. ,Ins. ALLEN agreed that tho stato of affairs described by Mr. Thomson existed, and was radically wrong. He did not know how these teachers could go out properly equipped, unless they paid more attention to science. The Hon. D. BUDDO said that several courses were now compulsory at the training colleges for from two to four hours a week. Native Schools. O'n the item, Nativo Schools (.£29,555), -Mr. HERRIES paid a tribute to thoso who carried on the work in those schools. They were tho pioneers of civilisation. Considering tho privations they had to bear tho treatment they received from the Dciiiirtmcnt was very niggardly. Tlia Hon. A. NGATA agreed that good work was done by the Native School teachers, but. denied that their treatment was niggardly. Ono of the best'things done by the Department in recent years had -been to put these teachers on tho samo basis as thoso employed in ordinary schools. Somo of them now received salaries of <£150 and .£220 per annum; Divided Counsels. At a quarter-past four, Sir James Carroll roso with a remark about the unceasing how of rhetoric from the other side of tho House. He suggested that they should adjourn until 2.20 p.m. that (lay. Mr. M'LAEEN said that with all respect to the Acting Prime-Minister, he thought the Houso should go on. This was only fair to those who had sat right through and brought the business to a stage when it could bo put through in a very short time. The Hon. D. BUDDO said his own feeling was to go right ahead. No moro was heard of tho Acting-Prime Minister's proposal to adjourn. Mr. HINE said tho Government members had taken no interest in tho Estimates—they had done nothing more than take turns in the chair, whilo tho Opposition had dono their best to carry on the business. Government members: Stonewall! Mr. Poole: Straight-out stonewall!—l withdraw that Mr. Chairman! An Indignant Member. Mr. .GEEENSLADE, who had been reclining peacefully at rest on his bench for many hours, made somo caustic remarks about tho Opposition, while Sir Jas. Carroll heartened him ,with approving interjections' from a tench in the rear. Ho declared indignantly that ho had remained there all night silent in the hopo that members would make some effort to do tho business of tho country. Tho Opposition had conducted what was practically a stonewall and had been guilty of a gross waste of . time. Mr. Greonslado was requested by the Chairman of (Committees to confine himself to tho question of industrial schools. ■ The Education Estimate; (.01,017,927) wero passed without amendment. Sir Jas. CARROLL proposed to proceed with further business, but Mr. Hardy protested that the Acling-Primo Minister had informed him .and his leader (Mr. Massey) thai' no other business than the Education Estimates would bo .taken that morning. Sir Jas. CARROLL said the only way out of the difficulty was for tho Chairman to leave tho .chair and resume it that dav at 2.30 p.m. The Chairman - then left the chair and tho Committee rose at 4.55 a.m. YESTERDAYS SITTING. STILL ON THE ESTIMATES. EXTRAORDINARY PRECEDENT. Tho Chairman of Commitees resumed his seat when members reassembled at 2.30 p.m. yesterday. Mr. MASSEY" asked what tho position was. They had just been told that the Committee had resumed. In the ordinary way it was now 2.'30 p.m. on Thursday. Government members: It is still Wednesday! Mr. Massey said that an extraordinary precedent was being established, of which he could not approve. The Chairman of Committees sliould have reported progress in tho ordinary way. Presumably, in a Parliamentary sense, it was still Wednesday, and to-morrow would be Thursday, but as a fact it would not be Thursday, but Friday. Mr. T. M. WILEORD (Hutt) moved to report progress in order that the Houso might get the permission _of the Speaker to proceed with local Bills. Sir Jas. CARROLL assured the Leader of the Opposition and tho House that an opportunity would bo given for dealing with local Bills.

'After some further discussion, Mr. Allen remarked that the Acting-Premier had stated before the House adjourned that morning that ns local Bill would bo prejudiced. Sir Jas. Carroll: "That is right." Tho Acting-Premier stated later that Thursday would bo set apart in tho following week for consideration of local Bills. Mr. MASSEY next dealt with an interjection from tho Government sido in reference to Opposition stone-walling that morning. Sir Jas. Carroll: There wa9 no stonewall. Mr. Massev hoped the hon. gentleman who had interjected would accept his Leader's contradiction. LANDS AND SURVEY. A COMPLAINT OF INJUSTICE. The Estimates of the Department of Lands and Survey (,£251,888) were then called upon. ,Mr. HERDMAN moved that the first item (Under-Secretary for Crown Lands, .££00) should be minced by .£5, as'an indication that tho Government should give effect to a recommendation of tho Lauds Committee and grant compensation to Mr. Hugh M'Lean in connection with his claim in. reference to the Waireki leases. Mr. Herdman stated that Mr. M'Lean had' suffered a loss of £7000 or £8000 owing to tho Government failing i to can-y ont a recommendation ci the School Commissioners and reduce tho rent of leases held lav Mr. M'Lean from tho Commissioners. 'The Hon. D. BUDDO contended that the matter raised by Mr. Herdman was irrelevant. "I consider that tho objection taken bv tho Minister is a stupid one," said Mr. Herdman, who staled that tho Larnds Committee reported favourably on Mr. M'Lean's petition in 1309. and that the Government ignored the recommendation. Tho CHAIRMAN OE COMMITTEES rnled that Mr. Herdman could not further elaborate his theme, and must confine himself to tho anestion of reducing the vote. On the motion of Mr. Herdman it was resolved that the Speaker's ruling bo taken.

The SPEAKER ruled that tho motion was in order. Ho eaid that thov all

know that tho Under-Secretary for Lands was a high and responsible oflicer, who advised the Government in matters relating to tho Lands Department. The Lands Committee, in tho case under notice, formed a rceummondation, and tent it to the Government. It would naturally l;o referred by tho Government to the head of the Department for a report, ami no doubt tho 31 mister and Cabinet would to a groat extent act on his recommendation. That being so, he was of opinion that .every latitude must bo allowed to lion, members to discuss the administration of tho Department. Tho Chairman's decision in stopping the. discussion was not in accordance with Parliamentary practice and usage.

In replv to Sir James Carroll, the Speaker further ruled that a reduction in tho salary of the Departmental head could be moved iu order to show that tho administration of the Department by tho Under-Secretary, lb© Minister, or tho Department was not what tho Houso thought it should be. His principle in all rulings was that the fullest latitude should be given to the House. Mi-. H POLAND (Ohinsmuri) asked whether there.was not some better way of making such a. protest as the mover wished to make. It was most unfair to tho officer named in tho motion, as tho outside public would be misled by tho terms of the motion. There was no better Civil Servant than tho Under-Secretary for Lands. Mr. MASSEY said no reflection whatever was intended upon' tho officer in _ question. Tho proper method of bringing sudh a matter forward was to mow an amendment to a. motion to go into Committee of Supply. Mr. Hexdman had tried to do this, but had been thwarted on two occasions.

Tho SPEAKER suggested that tho point raised by Sir. Poland should bo referred to the 'Standing Orders Committee to framo a standing order upon it. Tho House having again gone into Committee of Supply, and Jlr. Herdman haying added a few words in support of his motion. Tho Hon. D. BUDDO said the responsibility rested with the School Commissioners, and tho money could not have come out of the Consolidated Estimates. On a division the motion was lost by 21 to 31 LAND BALLOTS. BETTER SYSTEM DEMANDS. Mr. A. S. MALCOLM-fClutha) moved: "That the salary of the Under-Secretary of Lands bo reduced by .£2 as an indication that tho system of balloting for land is unsatisfactory, and that • somo more equitable and satisfactory system should ba adopted." He did not tako this step in any carping or party spirit, and he had deliberately refrained from submitting tho motion to tho Leader of the Opposition. Tho system resulted in a very serious loss to the public purse, and hindered the honest man who to get. on tho land, tho ballots being overcrowded by people who had no desire to becomo settlers. Mr. C. H. POOLE (Auckland West) said ho would vote against the motion. Tho existing dissatisfaction was not due to tho ballot system, but to dummyism, which flhould be prevented by tho most drastic sotps.

Mr. NOSWORTHY (Ashburton) said the last speaker's admission was very discreditable to tho Govornmont, inasmuch as twenty-ono years of power had not enabled them to suppress dummyism. He would support tho motion.

Mr. G. V. PEARCE (Patca) spoke of would-lio settlors spending their money going from ballot to ballot, and finally leaving the country in disgust. Her advocated the deferred payment system as utilised formerly in Taranaki.

Mr. G. W. FORBES (Hurunui) said the only alternative to the ballot was auction, which restricted the opportunity to the man with tho long purse. The Hon. D. BUDDO said he was pleased to havo this open declaration of war. The ballot system was established to do away with the practice of men paying an extraordinary prico for land, and then appealing for a reduction, because they could not pay it. Tho ballot system was brought in to give every man a chance. ..The, land boards who examined applicants " before the ballots consisted of practical men. No other system could be devised to give everyone a chance. Those who did not want to go to a ballot could tako up pastoral lands, but thoso who wanted first-class land must ballot for it. He contended tliat the O.R.P. w-as bettor than the deferred payment system. The Ballot a Gamble. Mr. W. NOSWORTHY (Ashburton) said that in South Canterbury tho Government out of 28 runs put up 11 at a ballot, and It at public auction. He twitted tho Government with inconsist. ency in this matter. The runs that wero auctioned fetched in some cases very much more than those that wero balloted. Was it not the duty of the Government to get the best value for tin, people of the country in disposing of Crown lands? The ballot system was a form of gambling in land. Mr. P. W. LANG (Manukau) quoted tho opinion of the lato Mr. Seddou that the ballot system was "a gamble puro and simplo." The ballot enabled wealthy speculators to get land while the poor man had to go elsewhere for land. The Hon. T. MACKENZIE said the members of the Opposition would part w;th the largest possible area of land to the wealthiest people, because they represented hardly anything but bagsMr. NEWMAN said all tho members of the Opposition were anxious to -get tho laud settled by small men, and tha other side should take their itord in this matter. The ballot system was a bad system. The land was undervalued, and individuals got what tho State should get. He thought a system of tendering would bo better, as it would do away with the gambling. The Opposition was in favour of limitation of area. They had said this timo after time, and wero always met with tho parrot cry of 'large areas." Ho did not know what would take tho place of the land ballot, and, therefore, could not vote for tho motion, but he hoped something would be done to improve the system.

"Mr. G. LAURENSON admitted the sincerity of the last speaker, but reiterated tho statement that tho Opposition was the party of the large landowners. Which party did tho largo landowners support? Oppositionists: Tho Government, every time! • Mr. Lauronson denied this. Mr. 11. J. H. OKEY (Taranaki) said the Opposition were all in favour of limitation of area. He considered public auction better than the ballot. Was'it not better for tho country to get tho value of tho land to which it was entitled than that large speculators should get land and then sell it to the settlers at double profit? His side of the House liad no sympathy with the largo landholders. (Ministerial dissent.) A Challenge Accepted. Mr. R. B. ROSS (Pahiatua) said no man' in Parliament believed that thoro was the slightest sincerity in the amendment. It was moved with the idea of using tho division to show people during the coming election that the mover and his friends were in favour of some reform in placo of the ballot system. If the mover were sincero why did he not move that every man taking up a Government section must take up his residence upon it and stay there for ten years? Mr. Ross declared amidst a wild uproar that uo member of the Opposition would move such an amendment as lie had indicated. If any of them did ho would support it, Mr. Massey: I will move it presently. Mr. Ross declared that tho deferred payment system which had been advocated by Opposition members had been inseparably associated v.ith a system of sale by auction. This system had served to well-nigh depopulate Southland. It was a ruinous policy. Mr. Wright: What is your land policy? Mr. Epss: To support the freehold when nave promised to do so, not to vote for tho freehold after promising to support tho leasehold, as was dono by tho member for Wellington Sonth! Mr. E. NEWMAN (Manawatu) said ho favoured holdings of 50 acres. If (lie land wore all leasehold, how much better off would tho population of 9,000,000, anticipated by tho member for Lytteilon, bo than under tho freehold ? It was not fair to assert that' members of the Reform parly woro prepared to sell every aero of laud in tho country. In season and out of season tho farmers' Unions had supported limitation of area. They wore all in favour of small holdings. Largo landholders, exercised no influence over his politics. Ho favoured a policy of closeI settlement and small holdings.

Mr. E. A. WEIGHT (Wollinßtou South) said that the statement' of tho member for Pahiutua, that ho had. violated hiij

pledge to support the leasehold was a gross libel, ilu had voted against the Government' on a no-confidence motion, and becauso it contained somo rcfcrcnco to the freehold lie had been subjected ever (since to tho boots of the political owls on (ho other side of the House. The talk of large land-holders by Government members was an electioneering cry. Pmsendy ho would read the list of shareholders of the "New Zealand Times" so that it might bo seen how tho Government was supported by brewers and publicans. Ho replied in tho allirmativo to tho questions put by Mr. Ross in referenceto exclusion from land ballots. Every member of the Government save one was a wealthy man. Tho statement had been published in a newspaper that tho Act-ing-Prime Minister owned 10,000 acres of land.

Sir .Tas. Carroll: Don't own an aero. The Hon. T. Mackenzie: There is not a wealthy man amongst thorn! Mr. 'Massey: Tom Mackenzie! Mr. Mackenzie: You own ten times as much as I do.

Mr. Wright continued that one of the largest squatters in the country, tho late member for ILurunui, Mr. Rutherford, had been ono of t'ho strongest supporters of tho Government.

Mr. LATIRENSON answered tho question of tho member for Mnnawatu by stating that under tho leasehold system, with a periodical revaluation and compensation to the tenants for improvements, tho State would reap the unearned increment on the land. In the division to which reference had been made the member for Wellington South had voted for party instead of principle. The Opposition's Land Policy. Mr. MASSEY said he did not want to bo drawn into a on the land question. Excitement at this stage of tho session would bo liad for members. Ho desired to raako it perfectly clear that tho official land policy of the Opposition was to enable men of small capital to get upon tho land by the leasehold, as a step-ping-stono to tho freehold. T'ho Hon. D. Buddo: That is the Government policy. (Laughter.) Mr. Massey: "Sinco when?" He outlined tho remaining planks in the Opposition land policy. Sir James CARROLL protested that too much latitude had been allowed in the discussion. Tho CHAIRMAN ruled that questions of policy could not bo discussed in a debate upon tho Estimates. And discussion upon tho land policy, either of the Government or of the Opposition, was out of order.Mr. WEIGHT said it would be a difficult tiling to refer to the land policy of the Government. Ho denied that he had voted for party instead of a principle. He had voted in redemption of a pledgo that ho would, oppose the Government on a no-confidence motion. The land question had not entered. Tho Hon. D. BUDDO, speaking of exclusions from the ballots, said that women wore sometimes more das-erring applicants than men. No liard and fast rule could be drawn. The matter must bo left to the Laud Boards. Mr. Malcolm's motion was defeated on a division by 36 votes to 12. Mr. Herdman's Motion Again. Tho Hon. D. BUDDO produced two Departmental letters to Mr. M'Lean, whoso petition had been mentioned by Mr. Herdman earlier in the afternoon. The Minister said he would' ask the indulgence of tho House to read these letters, in fairness to the head of the Department. The purport of the letters was that the subject matter of tho petition came under tho control of tho Education Department Mr. HERDMAN said this did not really affect tho position. The Lands Committee had considered the.petition and it was a strange thing that two members of tho committee who had in that capacity, supported a favourable recommendation upon tho petition had that afternoon voted against tho proposal which he had made. The CILURALAN OP COMMITTEES at this stage ■ ruled that tho matter could not be further discussed. Tho Minister had spoken by indulgence. Mr. Herdman: 1 Am 1 not at liberty to reply to the Minister ? Mr. Buddo: i did not say anything. (Laughter.) The Chairman said the Minister had spoken by tho indulgence of tho House. After some further discussion Mr. Jlerdmem was granted a similar indulgence. Mr. HERDMAN said that, since tho maltor had been.dealt with by tho Lands Committee, ho had been quite in order in his reference to it that afternoon. He repeated that two members of tho committee who had supported tho favourable report had voted against his proposal that afternoon.Tho Hon. T. DUNCAN, Chairman of tho Lands Committee, said that, although a petition was consigned to the Lands Committee it did not follow that the business it dealt with was referred to tho Lands Department. This matter was referred to the Education Department. Mr. FORBES (Hurunui) complained as a member of the Lands Committee that Mr. Herdman had taken advantago of the indulgence of tho House to make an attack on the Lands Committee. Mr. Forbes ' stated that he considered that Mr. M'Lean had a just claim, and had supported it upon the committee, but ho considered that this was not tho proper occasion on which to bring Up the claim, and ho had voted against Mr. Herdman's amendment.

Mr. E. NEWMAN (Manawatu) moved that tho item Under-Secretary for Crown Lands, <£SOO, be reduced by .£1 as an indication that Crown tenants should have better representation on land boards. The ACTING-PRIME. MINISTER objected that this was a question of policy, and the Chairman upheld the objection, and refused to take the amendment. Crown Lands in Wellington. Mr. K. A. WRIGHT asked whether any Crown land remained available for settlement in the Wellington land district, and if not whether any estates could bo resumed for settlement. The MINISTER stated that there remained 237,591 acres of Crown land in the Wellington district for disposal. Of this area about 130,914 acres were suitable for small settlements, and 106,617 acres for pastoral settlement These figures were subject to a number of reservations. Some of the land was too high, and some of it was required for reserves. Mackenzie Country Runs. Mr. NOSWORTHY (Ashburton) moved that tho item Commissioner of Crown Lands (Canterbury), .£.'500, be reduced by £b as ao indication that tho Houso was dissatisfied at tho manner in which the Government had disposed of tho South Canterbury runs. Air. JIASSEY said it should be clearly understood that tho member for Ashburton was not attempting to get at tho officer concerned, but was dissatisfied with the manner in which Mackenzio Country runs had been dealt with. Mr. NOSWORTHY said that some of the people who had taken up these runs had been offered large sums for the goodwill. Mr. BUDDO said it was for tho Land Board to consent or disallow a transfer. Some peoplo of means had outbid other applicants. Mr. NOSWORTHY said ho could not understand the claim that these runs were resumed to enable small men to get on the land, since the Government had demanded that such applicants should hold seven years' rent.

Mr. AV. U. BUCHANAN said the disposal of these runs' had caused keen dissatisfaction in South Canterbury. Evidence had been produced in another place which showed that .6400 had been offered as premium to tho successful applicant for one of these runs. Mr. BUDDO said that this was only an expression of personal opinion. Tho disposal of tho runs had been carried out on lines approv.ed by tho Lands Committee, as well as by tlie Land Board of the district. Mr. Nosworthy's amendment was defeated by 36 votes to 24. Noxious Weeds, - Mr. MASSEY complained that although tho House had voted JE2OOO last year for tlie eradication of noxious weeds on Crown lands, only .£877 had been spent. Mr. LUKE directed attention to sums to be voted as subsidy to local bodies engaged in purchasing areas for public reserves. Places like Riccarton, Thames, and Pcilding had benefited largely in this way. If the Consolidated Fund was elastic enough to provide these, subsidies, other places should put in applications. The Hon. I). BUDDO said that applications for subsidies on tho purchaso of reserves had mostly come from places that needed training grounds for terrirorials. Each application was considered on its merits. The Ministor stated that .£11.% liad actually been spent in eradicatinz noxious weeds, ond a good deal more 'had

been authorised. Tho item "»CS77" was a misprint. Mr. JENNINGS said ho had documentary evideuro showing that settlers wero paying more io land boards for grass-

seed and fencing-wire than those articles could I» obtained for from private firms. It had been said that settlers wcrespounfed, but tho fact appeared Io bo that they did not get from the Crown land Boards the consideration to which they were entitled. Ho would ask tho Minister to visit the settlors of tho Taumarunui district during the recess and hear the facts from their own lips. Mr. ]'. SCOTT (Tunpoka) complained that the allowance of 10s. per day and Gd. per mile (ravelling excuses one way was inad-equate. The Government should increase it to at least .£1 per dav. Mr. E. NEWMAN (Mannwatu) 'agreed that tho fees paid to board members should bo increased. The number of members should rtlso be increased, and Crown tenants should bo given representation.

Tho Hon. D. BUDDO said ho did not think it was possible to got true grassseed at a cheaper price than that at which it was supplied to settlers by the Department Tho difference in the prices of wire must be slight. ilr.. HERDMAN said ho noted that last year the Government had remitted considerable sums in rent on Crown lauds, as it was authorised to do in tho event of a -natural disaster or other sufficient cause. These remissions appeared to have become established as a considerable annual charge. He would lite to know what natural disaster or ..other sufficient cause had justified these re-, missions last year.

The MINISTER said that these remissions were necessary to relieve some settlers undtr the land for settlement scheme, but there was a substantial annual profit from tho whole scheme. The Land Board had power to recommend remissions. Mr. ' HERDMAN said that tho power rested ultimately with a Minister of the Crown of determining whether the omission should bo mado. This was a very great powor to place in the hands of a Minister. Wanganui River Service. Mr. G. V. PEARCE (Patea) stated that subsidised steamers on tho Wanganui River wero owned by a company, which eliarged enormous freights to those who did not deal with it. 'i'h-3 Prime Minister had promised last year to institute inquiries. Would the Minister say if anything had been done? Tho MINISTER said tho Lands Department paid its aharo of the subsidy to t'ho Postal Department, which controlled this matter. Mr. J. T. HOGAN (Wanganui) supported Mr. Pearce in advocating a definite scale of freight charges bv the company running steamers on the Wanganui River. Mr. 11. W. SMITH (Rangitikci) said it was a recognised thing that unless stores wore purchased from the company owning the steamers it was almost impossible i£ get them carried up the river. It was no good playing with these people. Something definite should bo done in the matter.

Mr. MASSEY said ho had had a'tremendous number of complaints from Wanganui River settlers, who had stated that thffl- simply did not know where they wero in the matter of fares and freights. Settlers had informed him that tho company had sufficiont influence with the Government to enable them to extract favourable treatment. Ho would under certain circumstances approve of tho Government putting a couple of steamers on the river.

Mr. FIELD moved to reduce tho item "Ivapiti Island: Expenses of Supervision (including maintenance of oil launch), .£130," as an indication that the Government was not pursuiug a satisfactory policy in regard to t'ho island. Ho urged that the good grass land on the island should be made to yield a revenue. This could be done without destruction of bird or tree.

Tho Hon. D. BUDDO said that scientific societies had represented that if the island were thrown open its value as a sanctuary would be destroyed. He had drawn up a scheme involving a certain amount of re-planting and other work, and a sum would be. placed on the Estimates to provido for it. It was not intended to open the island for settlement or to throw it open to excursionists, but thero was no necessity to cxcludo those who were interested in bird life.

Mr. FIELD said that ho did not desire to throw tho island open to excursions of a thousand people, but he saw .no reason why small parties should not bo allowed to pay it a visit. . Tho motion was lost on tho voices.

Mr. Field urged that an area of sand dunes should bo set aside for experiments in reclamation as recommended by Dr. Cockayne.

The Minister said this would bo done. Mr. SMITH moved: "That tho item, 'Wanganui Rivor, subsidy for steamer service, A7oo' as an indication of the indignation felt by the settlers al tho treatment' ineted out to them by tho present service in connection with tho delivery of mails and goods, and that tho timo has arrived when a set tariff and definite conditions should be arranged, and failing that, that tho Government should place on the river a couplo of 'Stateowned steamers."

Mr. OKEY thought the ITonjo should knock off the subsidy of .£7OO for one year to fee if that" would do any good. The Hon. D. BUDDO said ho would undertake to seo that representations were made to llio Postal Department by the Lands Department' with a view to getting a uniform aud reasonablo scale of freights and faros.

Mr. MTjAKEN said the Houso must have already paid in subsidies the value of one or two steamers.- It was in the interests of tho people that such a service should bo publicly owned. The motion was also supported by Messrs. Luke, Jennings, Pearce, and was carried on a division (at 11.35 p.m.) bv 36 to 15. VALUATIONS. SERIOUS COMPLAINTS. When tho Valuation Vote, ,£31,583, was before the Committee, Mr. JENNINGS said that valuators in many cases wore connected with land and commission agents. Was it right that tho dual posilion should be held? He knew that Government valuators, not in one district only, but in several, were acting with land agents. He wanted to know if this position was going to be maintained. If it was ho was going to move the reduction of an item by £o in order that the House might have an opportunity of expressing disapproval. Sir .las. CARROLL stated that, on proof submitted by the hon. gentleman, tho Government would take tho matter up and deal with it. Mr. Jennings: You ask me for proof, do yon, after what I havo written to tho Department? I will make it now in tho House. lam prepared now to give names to the House. The Hon. D. BUDDO: It ie not necessary. I will deal with the matter. Ho added that if men who were conncoted with commission agents were disqualified from service, men who possessed tho necessary local knowledge would bo set aside. Mr. R. B. ROSS (Pahiatua) said that in his district a man who had been convicted of falsifying a county roll had been employed by a Government valuer as an assistant. He had made representations to the Government on the matter, but no notico had been taken of his complaints.

Mr. W. C. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) protested against the nnbusiness-hko method in which the valuations had been made for many years past, which resulted in very imperfect and unfair results. The E <n . D. BUDDO said that 75 districts'were valued last year, and Assessment Courts wero only necessary in 35 instances. Only one per, cent, of the valuations were objected to, and on 594 objections the Court upheld tho values in 45" cases. He did not think the system of valuation could be improved on. At midnight there wero 43 members in the House. Mr. JENNINGS said that some casual valuers employed by the Government wero speculators in land. This was not fair to tho settlers, and such a state of affairs should be ended. Mr. MASSBV said the charges made by Mr. Jennings had not been met by the Minister. There was clearly a very improper state of affairs. Sir James CARROLL said that if any cases of the serious nature referred to wero proved tho persons would bo dealt with. Mr. ISITT said men who speculated in land should not bo employed by tho Government as valuators. Mr. RUSSELL said tho extra valuers employed in the Canterbury district wero honourable men of good standing. Tiio members who had mado charges should go privately to tho Minister with their evidence. Jlr. JENNINGS eaid iio kaew.of o dia-.

trict valuator on salary who appointed a man connected with a land agency business- to make valuations, and this latter iimn took others to assist him of his own riolition.

Mr. MASSEY: Will tho Minister tell u.s whether it is not o, fact that a Departmental valuer in a North Island district was got rid of, and that a casual valuer is doing the work, and it is costing far more than before?

Mr. BtJDDO: I am assured that is not the case.

, At 0,30 a.ra. twenty-eight members were in the Chamber. Four of them were lying down, and a fifth appeared to be asleep. Mr. HINE asked whether it was not a fact that the District Valuer at New Plymouth was discharged, and a casual valuer given tho work at a cost of £>M to £500. Tho District Valuer at New Plymouth was discharged as part of tho retrenchment scheme,'but when a new valuer at Hawera was required an outsider was appointed. Mr. BUDDO said there was a valuation district known as Taranaki, which was done away with, and consequently tho officor was dispensed with. Tho item was passed unaltered. the total vote of tlio Lands and Survey Department, .£251,888, was passed, with the reduction noted abovo, ot 0.55 a.m. Twenty-tight members were present. Mr. MASSEY then suggested thai progress should be reported. Ho said it was unfair to keep members there so late night after night. Sir James CABEOLL consented to report progress, but asked the co-operation of the Loader of tho Opposition to finish iho Estimates to-dav.

Mr. MASSEY: There will be no unnecessary delay or obstruction, so far as we arc concerned.

Progress was reported, and the House rose at 1.2 a.m.