PARLIAMENT.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1248, 5 October 1911, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

THE COUNCIL DEGREES IN DIVINITY. BILL DEFEATED ON THE SECOND READING. Tlio Legislative- Council met at 2.30 yesterday afternoon. Tho Hon. Sir G. M. OTIORKE (Auoklaml) moved tho second reading of tho University Divinity Degrees Bill. Tho Bill makes provision for tho University Senate granting degrees in divinity as well as in other subjects. Tho mover 6poko strongly in favour of tho proposal. The ATTOIWEY-GENEEAL thought tho University of Now Zealand should bo kept secular, and free .from ccclesiastieity, and added that he did not think that tho majority on the senate reflected tho opinion of tha majority of tho people in New Zealand. (Hear, hear.) Tho Hon. J. B. CALLA2T did not think they would ever pet tho permission to establish tho degrees in a State University. The Hon. T. KELLY also opposed tlio motion. On ii division the motion was rejected bv ito 18. Tlio ayes were: Sir G. M. OTtorke, Hons. Dr. Collins. G. J. Smith, and AV. C. F. O.rncross. Tho nec-s were:. Sir J. G. I'indlay, Hons. Capt. Tucker, Major Ham's, ,T. "B. Callan, S. T. George, J. Kigp, J. T. Paul, ,T. Barr, G. Jones,' A. Baldey, B. A. Loughnan, T. Kelly, J. Anstny, T. Thompson, H. F. M'ipram, .T. Sf'Goivan, ,T. R. Sinclair, and 0. Samuel. The second'readings of thcOamaru Municipal Exchange and Market Reserve Leasing Bill (Hon. Geo. Jones), and the Waikowhai Park Bill (Hon. S.V. George) wero agreed to withotit discussion. Tlio Hon. 0, SAMUEL (TaranaM) moved the second reading of tho Greytown Town Lnnds and Hosj/ital Lands Exchange Bill. The second- reading was agreed to without.discussion. Tho debate on the Hon. .C. H. Mills's motion inrcgnrd to the Coronation invitations is reported in another column.

THE MOUSE.

•• ENTERTAININGOFFICIAL VISITORS." RETURN PRODUCED. REFERENCES TO SECRECY, MYSTERY AND DELICACY. Tho Houso met at 2.30 p.m. Six days' leave of absence was granted Sir. Hogg, member for JUasterton, who has boen ill' for some dime; two days' Icavo was granted Mr. Buxtoii (Geraldino) on account of urgemt irablic business, and Boven days to Mr. Slander (Maredcn , ) on cccwnmt of illness. The Acting-Primo Minister laid on tho tablo tiro return showing dotoils of expenditure in entertaining official visitors, promisad on tho previous; evening , . Following aTO the details:— Reception of Lord June, 1910, ..£27 as. Cd. ; Reception, .of. Lady. Islington, Angnst, 1910, JJIO-1 0a Btl. Reception of Hon. G. Fowlds on his rotnrn from Sonth Africa, January, 1911, .£7O Iβ*. 10d. Expenses in connection, with the .visit of the Chief Inspector, Lands Department, New Smith Wales, November, 1910, and Commander of French w.wship Kersaint, February, 1911. .£lO 12s. 9d. Total, .£232 15s, 9d. , At tUo suggestion of Mr. Hemes, tlio Minister added to hk motion that tho paper Should bo printed. Mr. MASSEY said ho was glad that the information had boon supplied. There ■had been a very strong expression, from members that sucfli details as ho had just read slwxuld not be withheld. Ha was p!eaS3d that Parliament had eeen fit to assert itself on this occasion.' and hoped that something like what had happened tho previous night would happen on every occasion when information ' vras withheld which ongit to have been supplied without being asked for. Tho ■ Hon. D. BUDDO denied that ho had been reluctant to give tho information save in respect of ono item to which ho need not refer. Mr. A. DILLON (Hawko's Bay) said that the- hon. gentlemen on the otliw side, apparently objected to tho Government spending a few pounds in entertaining visitors. If any visitors came to his house lie spent money upon them. He urged tho Opposition to show a littlo more genonsity. .(Laujiiior.) Secrecy and Mystery. Mr. MASSEY said the Opposition had no fault to lind with the expenditure. What they objected to was tho secrecy «nd mystery in connection with> the dotails, ... f Mr. ."W. C. BUCHANAN :(Wairar.apa) said tho Government was.entirely at fault, and was'to blamo for the litrlf* unpleasantness that had occurred. ■ ' Mr. STAILWOETHY a.s»rted that tho division of the preceding evening had made no differenco in the matter at all. Ho maintained that the Opposition had taken exception (o tho expenditure, and that tliere had been no secrecy oa tho part of Ministers'. Mr. G. LAUIiENSON (Lyttelton) said that harbour boards and city councils E.jX'nt a great deal more in cntertauiiug visitors than did tho Government. Ho would guarantee that overy man on the other side with a spark of.tho gcntletnaa in him would feel sorry in his calmer moments that this matter had boen dragged up beforo Parliament. Mr. K. 11. EHODES .(Ellesmore) said hon. members on that sido had no objection to this expenditure, but. as trustees for tho people, they desired to know how tho expenditure was made.

Mr. M'Kcnzie on Delicacy. Tho Hon. R. M'KENZIE said there wcro certain distinguished people in this country whose names had never been bandied about in this House before. Tho Opposition bad made era-tain iunuondoos trying to deceive the people, and saying there was secrecy when there was no secrecy nt all, but only « proper delicacy. It appeared tolum that the main object of the Opposition during this session was to fill tho pages of Hansard with "flapdoodle." Mr. Massey: That is what is goin" in now! Mr. C. A. C. HARDY (Selwyn) said he had listened with pleasure to (he Minister for Public Worlcs, who had nwisted the Opposition to fill the pages of Hansard. The Opposition had to talk a prnat deal to penetrate tho understanding of tho people with thick heads. Mr. Hardy commented on the fact that frro railway passes had been granted to tho Irish delegates, and refused to the Anglican MisBioners. Mr. E. A. WRIGHT (Wellington South) paid he had not realised tho delicacy of ttio Minister for Public Works prior to his recent explanation. Mr, M'Kcnzie: "You nro too thickheaded to realise it!" Mr. Wright: "lam notso thick-headed as tho Iron, gentleman thinks." Ho was glad that the production of tho information demanded had shown that there w.'i.s jwthiiu; to take exception to. Ho admitted that tho matter in itself wan email, but j thero was a principle at stoke. I Free Passes. Tho Hon. ,T. A. MILLAR, replying to Messrs. Hardy and Wright on tho siib|p't of fro? passes, stated that a habit had crown up in this country of treating every man as a distinguished visitor. Some timo ago it hal been ygnved at a conference (whfcpn tho Australian Commissioners find lite Now Zealand Genera! Manager that only members of Parliament or any rn;i.n coming duly accredited from his Sin.-'o or Government should be granted ■i'» proves. Tim Irish delegates were- given !'--r-o because- dipro were two mem-li-rs of Parliament in tho part}-, who wero entitled t;o the privilege." The. passes hold by memI«!TS of the New Zna!si,nd Pnrliarr,ont cntitlod them to travel on the Australian railways, awl on tho New South Wflles tramivays. He hod promised a return of free pawns granto;' by tho Government, and ns Ml afraid of freo pawes issued sinco ho becamo Minister for Railways. It was of no nro now coming along end saying that a man wna a leading

dirino or anything of that kind. Passes ooiild not h& granted in Uicso cnsc>. Ah , . POOLE accused tho member for Solwyn of liaving recommended that passes should bo is-uwl to Hie Anglican missionors, and declared that tlu-S was advocacy of n, very dangerous [iriiiciiilo. Mr. HAHDY denied having mado tlio roooin m cmlation. Mr. I' , . M. n. FISHER (Wellington Central), roturiii-ng to tho main question, remarked that if tho Minister for Internal Attains had known anything about his Estimates on tho previous ovoning he [ would htivo saved thn. House hours of d:sou*;fon i\s well 0.3 tho discussion of Hint afternoon'. The fact that tlio Minister had refused, the information htu! given the House tlio idea that lie* had something (o conceal. ■ Tho Hon.' T>. 'BL'DD.) stated that lio had told tho House on tho previous evening that lie had not the information at fciie moment. Neither had ho. The head of tlio Department luul not thought it mscessary to bring this jufornation alont;. It was a matter of delicacy on his part, no doubt. This straining at a gnat was almost too muc'li for tho Opposition. A Reluctant Minister. Mr. James ALLEN (Bruce) said that what had taken place was that the .Minister on being asked to explain tho item refused to do so. When it was pointed out that tho information had been given last year, he excused himself on the ground that it was unwioc to make disclosures about names, and so forth. It was not until a division hail been taken and a consultation between members of tho Cabinet hiul been held in the Houso that the Acting-l'rinio Minister had agreed to give tho information. Mr. Allen ridiculed the ittea that thcro could bo any harm in disclosing to the community that n certain amount of money had been expended in entertaining the Governor and Lady Islington on their arrival. : Tho lion. D. IiUDDO complained that the hon. gentleman was insincere, but .was informed by the Speaker' that ho was not entitled to answer insincerity, and tho discussion terminated.

SETTLING THE LAND. A SPECIAL AREA PROPOSAL. ' A land settlement proposal waa advanced' in Parliament yesterday by Air. llcss, nioniber for I'ahiauia, who asked the Governincut whether, when framing their land and other legislation, tlity would make provision for proclaiming suiiaulo districts near towns and railways o's "closo settlement araas," within, which districts land would bo available only in "living" areas, and tho holding of largo blocks of undeveloped kind would bo effectually discouraged .■■ The MINISTER FOR LANDS replied that tho matter would receive careful consideration. Air. 11OSS urged that it was very jikcseary that action tmeh as ho had indicated should bo taken. His idea was, by taxation and other means, to make all tho l;uu( in these special areas available for closo settlement? Mr. FORCES (Hurr.nui) supported the proposal, and accused the Opposition of insiiawrity in their attitude towards land settlement. Mr. MAS3EY denied the charge, and said flint the Opposition desired to distinguish between land properly used and made productive! ai:d laud not so used and not productive. It ivas a defect in the land legislation in this country that the nioro a man. improved his laud the more its unimproved value roso. Parliament should consider taxing unimproved land more heavily, and exempting improvements from taxation U> a greater extent tha.n at present. Mr. HERELHS (Tauranga) said it was quite ■ incorrect to say that the Opposition party represented tho broad acres, if the country would give them the chance they would have a Liberal land administration on a freehold basis. He thought most of the large landowners now supported the Government. .Tho Hon. -J). BUDDO said that tho estates near tho raihrpy's v,'ero usually too high-priced for the Government to purchase them. for. closer settlement. It was quite incorrect' to say. that the , taxation of land was increased on account of the settlors' improvements. Ho defend rd the endowment system, and said that (ho man who stood firmly by it now would have something to be proud of later on. Mr. J. P. LUKE (Wellington Suburbs) said the man who advocated selling tho national endowments should be regarded as a traitor. The time , was dead ripe for tho settling of the Native lands. Mr. J. B. HINE (Stratford) said the best of tho bud was being set aside a* endowments. He thought a settler should bo enabled to register his improvements so that when they passed out of eight, as was the case in the clearing of bush, account could still bo taken of them in the valuations. Mr. LANG (Manukau) expressed pleasure that f?ie Government was coming round to the Reform party's views on tho land question. This-was shown by the fact that as much ; Crown land as. possible was now offered oil the optional S3 The" PRIME MINISTER, in'reply to Mr. M'Larcii, said ho had received no cominnnication from the Primp. Minister !of ■ Australia : regarding; the matter of tariff reciprocity. Ho would be exceediingly'pliul to 'enter into, negotiations for "establishment of a : reciprocal tariff '.between Australia and New Zealand on •mutually:'fair, lines. ' ■ ' The PRIME MINISTER, in reply to 'Mr. 'Jennings, 'said that at no time had ■instructions be-Jii-. issued by the pension .■authorities to registrars to hold back applications. ■' '■~.•■ • PROGRESS OF BILLS. ■ At thee.venlns sitting the Kaikoura HospitalSito Bill (Hon. , D. Buddo) passed through Committee ■ without amendment. • ■■■■■ The amendments made by the Legislative! .Council in tho Mental Defectives Bill v/ero, agreed to.

THE ESTIMATES. AGRICULTURAL AFFAIRS. POLICY INQUIRED FOR. Tho ■ House went into Committee of Supply , shortly before 8 p.m. for the further consideration of tho Estimates. ' Class XIV, Department of Agriculture, Commerce, and Tourists, total vote, J!2!5,202. (Hon. T.' Mackenzie.) Mr. H. .)'. H. OKEY (Taranaki) read from a .newspaper report of an interview with tho Hon. T. Mackenzie, in which the ■ Minister stated, intc-r alia, "I am going in for a very big agricultural programme, and have therefore selected a district—(ironical laughter)—that I know will appreciate progressive work and that will sympathise with my efforts." Mr. Okey "asked tho Minister to tell tho House all tfiout this new policy. It must have baai before Cabinet, as tho Minister also stated in the interview that tho Prime Minister was fully in nccord with it. Mr. W. C. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) endorsed the request for a policy statement. Mr. W. F. MASSEY. Leader of the Opposition, said that before tho Minister outlined his policy he would like to point out that the report of the Department of Agriculture had not been presented. , Such a withholding of the information which members needed in order to properly consider the Estimates could surely not bo in accord witli tho progressive policy which the Minister would sot forth within a fe-w minutes. Tho MINISTER (Hon. T. Mackenzie) stated that the Department had two men in India whose duly it waa to seo that bones us-od in tho manufacture of fertilisers were properly sterilised. The circulation of tho Jouni.il issued by the Department had risen from 25U0 to 510(1. Provision would bo made on tho Supplementary Estimates to the extent of iICO fo-r the." bonus ni Id. par lb. oil fruit exported to London. Tho question of establishing a veterinary college .was one for the Education Department, but tho Minister believed tlitt Government was riot vet prepared to establish such an institution. Tho Agricultural Department had no information regarding tho machinery mentioned by Mr. Luke to show that it had produced very good results. It was intended to continue the breeding of Angora goats. Wages on tho experiment I farms had been increased some timo ago. It was hoped to augment the provisio-i now made for instructing lads in farming at Ruakura. , Srr. G. \V. RUSSELL considered that life Government, in ct-tablisiiiag a veterinary college, could not do bettor than establish it at Lincoln College, where, already there was plenty of live stuck. Mi. 0. V. PEARCI-: (I'ate.i) staler! that sinco entering Parliament lie had continually urged tho Minister to throw open tho Moumahuki Stuto Farm for tho

trainim: of cadets. Tho fact that nearly one-fifth of Ihe laud in tho North Islaud was Native land lying idle as a breeding "round for rabbits accounted for Hie heavy expenditure in destroying these peots. A most unfair burden wtis imposed on settlors in this way. Mr. T. 11. JJAVEY opposed tho proposal to establish a veterinary college in .New. Zealand. This country could not absorb threo vctei-inaiy surgeons per y«ir. In any caso until reciprocity with England had been established it would bo unfair to train veterinary surgeons in New Zealand. A man, qualified in >ew Zealaud. ii' he desired to obtain the diploma of tho Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, would have to undergo a four-wars' entirM , ju London. MiC .MALCOLM, said that something liko ono huii'Jral veterinary surgeons could bo employed in New Zealand,'and the i-stubli.shment of a school for training them would bo mure than justified. the 'Hon. T. MACKENZIE said ho hoped that the present or ,»mo other tiorernmoiit would undertake tlio training of lads in farm work under some moro extensive system than existed at present. Mr. nEEEIES said that tho public gardens at Eotorua were not as well kept as they were four or fivo years ago. The sc«nic beauties of this country and trips that could bo made to view them were not sufficiently advertised. Te Archa hardly, seemed to "be advertised at all. The votes for tho Department of Agriculture, Commerce, and Tourists (j215,202) were passed unaltered. Tho estimates of tho Department of Education (,£1,017,927) were nest called upon. A Million at Midnight. Mr. G. M. THOMSON protested against tho House being asked at 0.30 a.m. to vote on a clauso involving the expenditure of a million of monev. ' Mr. MASSE i' added his protest. There, he said, was tho Minister lor luternal Affairs sound asleep a-t his bench. Somo sort of denial came from Mr. Buddo. Mr. Massey continued that tho members for Otaki and Avon were also asleep. As a matter of fact, two or three of those behind him were asleep, and they could not be blamed. He hud himself had twenty-ono hours of it on the previous day, and had been at work since nine that morning. This sort of thing was nothing less than a public scandal. Sir James CAHKOLL while admitting that Parliamentary life was a little tryin,-: regretted that ho could not agree with the hon. gentleman. From a business point of view they must do a certain amount of work. It had been said that at times ho approved the taihoa policy, but there were other times when tho exception must prove the rule. Uβ thought tho House should continue until 3 a.m. i'rom this position tho Actinrj-Prime Aliuister declined to bo moved, and Mr, ilassoy moved to report, progress. The motion was defeated on a division by 32 votes to 10. (Left Sitting.)

PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY.

g ANNUAL MEETING. The annual meeting of the Wellington Philosophical Society was held at tho Museum last evening, Mr. G. V. lluc&on, F.E.S., presiding. There was an attendance of about 50 members. The annual report interestingly reviewed tho principal eveuts in the past year's work of the society. No fewer than '10 papers were read during the session, and a number of interesting exhibits brought forward. The astronomical section of the society had shown marked activity, and. had purchased an equatorial mount- , ing for tha 5-inch Ccoke telescope.- This would be erected at an otrarvatory to be built at Kelburne as soon as the necessary foundations had been completed. The society had noted with plrasnre the successful formation of the Eugenics Education Society of Wellington, and aleo of the Wanganui Philosophical Society. The society made strong * representations to the Government to reserve the whole of Kapiti Island for native fauna and flora. The question of tidal observations at (he outlying islands had advanced another sta-je, and it was possible that arrangements would soon he made by thp Government for observations to be taken ■at Suva, Fiji.

Since tho last annual meeting 21 new members had been elected. !) had resigned, 2 were deceased, and one had been strurk off the roll for -non-payment 'of subscriptions.. The total roll number was now 115, which number included G lifo members anil one honorary member. Tho statement of the year's finances showod a credit balanco of .CC3 Ms. 2d. Tho Research Fund, invested with the Public Trustee, noV amounted to .C 39 10s. 2d., and the Life Subscription Fund, also invested with the Public Trustee, amounted to «C2O, making a total of, ,£123 4s. 'Id. The report of the librarian showed that the society by purchase or donation received over 20 periodicals, but (hat only about half of theee- were taken out by members. Reporting to tho meeting on the work of tho astronomical section,. Mr. A. C. Gifford mentioned that Mrs. Parsons, of the Lower llutt, had presented to the section a 6-inch reflecting telescope, u\ni',e by the late -Mr. W. I'.' Parsons,- in 1873. Tho council was trying to got an observatory, but so far their efforts had not been ooiispiciionsly successful. It was hoped that within the course of tho 'next lew days the Minister for Internal Affairs would give some definito information about a site for the observatory, and when that was settled, the council would begin tho erection of a suitable structure. It had no funds at present. A lecturo on tho subject of "The Milky Way' , was to bo given by Dr. Hector, and Mr. J. T. Ward, of Wauganui, was to give a lecture at tho on "Astronomy," with lantern illustrations. By these means it was hoped to stimulate public interest in the observatory. The members of (he council and honorary officers of tho society were re-elected en bloc, as follow:—President, Mr. G. V. Hudson, F.E.S.; vice-presidents, Mr. T. King, F.R.R.S., and Dr. C. Munro Hector; council, Mr. Martin Chapman, K.C.; Pro-f-osaor H. B. Kirk, Mr. 1\ G. A. Shickey, M. \. Professor D. K. Picken, Rev. D. Kennedy, D.D., F.R.A.S., Professor T. H. Easteriield, and Mr. A. Hamilton, F.L.S.; secretary and treasurer, Mr. C. E. Adams, AI.Sc, 'F.R.A.S.; librarian, Miss J. A. Wilson; auditor, Mr. E. R. Dymock, A.T.A., N.Z.