"TERRORISM."

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1227, 8 September 1911, Page 6

"TERRORISM."

PUBLIC SERVANTS' FEARS. DEBATE IN THE HOUSE, ''.MEMBERS AND TEE SERVICE. Fear and unrest in the public service, amounting, it is said, to a reign of terrorism, formed tho subject of a discussion -in tho House- of Representatives yesterday afternoon. Tho Petitions Committee reported on tho petition of Thomas Willascn, of Wellington, who had. prayed for an inquiry into tho'cirenmsta ices of lis dismissal from Government employ.-The commit-tee-had no recom nendation to make. Mr. F. M..8. Fisher (Wellington Central) said an officer, of tho Public Wotlcs Department had said that Willason had complained that be was turned out of his billet because he had been seen- talking to .-Opposition monbers ,of Parliament. The officer had had to write a.letter .to a lawyer apologising for something ho had said, and tho matte- throw an interesting sidelight upon the methods of some re- ' presentativos of the Departments. Ihis officer had written:— "If I am rightly informed, Willa- . eon is himself chiefly to blamo for not gatling employment with the Public Works Department. He ha ( s been ln- ' torviowing prominent men on the Opposition 'Side of Parliament, and has perhaps let his tonguo run away with his discretion." Sir Joseph Ward: Ii is nonsense. Wo havo heard this old story until wo are tirod of it. i ' ■ Mr. Fisher: Ton havo never seen it in writing before. There are certain employees in tho Government service in Wellington who do not deem it safe; to be seen talking to Opposition members. ■ Continuing, Mr. Fisher said this -was written evidence of the feelingof insecurity in the public service. He did not think there was any justification for the improssion so far as members of the- Cabinet were concerned, for-he behoved that they, knew nothing about it. Tho Civil Servants should be allowod a reasonable amount of freedom, and some of the restrictions now placed upon them should bo removed. There wero many men in tho soTvicoof tlu Government who believed that the only way to obtain justice from Parliament >vas to enlist the assistance of members of Parliament, and in doing so they wero careful to ask that precautions should be taken to protect them from tho punishment for going over the heads of Departments to members of Parliament. Mr. D. Buick (Palmerston North) endorsed what Mr. Fisher had said, and did not blame the members of the Government, but men in subordinate positions who thought they could curry the favour of the Government by tolling little tales about men speaking to Opposition members. He had had letters from Government employees asking him to meet them after daTk.- ("Oh, oh!") A Member: And did you meet him in the dark? Mr. Buick: X'es, I did. Ministerial Statement. The Hon. R. M'Kenzie, Minister for Public Works, said Willason was a labourer workiDg'in'the Government House grounds and was discharged with others, when the work was finished. He lodged a complaint against Mr. MeTryweathcr, tho head gardener, and also threatened him through a solicitor, with an action for- libel. Tho letter Mr. Fisher had rcitd appeared to be a copy of a letter written by Mr. Merryweather to the solicitor. He (the Minister) had Mr. Merryweather before him and made inquiries, and' was satisfied that Willason-had no I legitimate complaint whatever. He had never heard of an objection to any Government servant speaking to any member of 'Parliament. Mr. G. W. Forbes'(Hurunni) said that if Mr. Buick went down south, ho would find that Government employees there were quite freo. to speak to any member of Parliament, but it appeared from what had been said that the Civil Servants in this- district were frightened of their, own souls. Mr. .J. F. Arnold (Dunedin Central) said there could bo no doubt that there were men who were afraid that they would be marked men if they wrre. seen speaking to'a member of Parliament, not by. the Minister, but by their superior officers. ..This was because - the Ministers of to-day had not got that command over those who were under them that they should havo,. (Hear, hear!) .While somo of the pTesent-day Ministers-were able to command tho whole of their Departments that did not apply to everyone who sat upon the Ministerial benches. Members of'the policp,' servants in the asylums, and a large proportion of those referred to as Civil Servants had tho feeling rightly'or wrongly that if they-were ;too fa-' miliar with a member of Parliament they ' would be punished in some way. A Government supporter: How can they bo punished? . .

Another Instance Mr. Arnold: The Minister for Internal Affairs can tell, you how, because I have brought the matter under his notice within the last few weeks. A man in his Department who was friendly with a member of Parliament was under the impression that he had been punished in consequence. Ho (Mr. Arnold) was convinced that Mr. Fisher was right in his statement that a feeling of unrest in the Civil Service existed, and something should be done by tho Ministry of tho day to remove it. . Mr. Glover admitted that he had been interviewed by large numbers of men in tho service. He had been interviewed by more men than any member of the House, by more even than a Cabinet Minister. (Laughter.) They had also come to'him at night, but only because they were at work in. the daytime. If it was the case that Civil Servants wore afraid to come to a member of tho Opposition in the davlight, it was a condition of things that should not be allowed to'exist. Tho Hon. D. Buddo, referring to tho* case cited by Mr. Arnold, said tho man referred to was shifted from ono part of n Department to another. He believed that this had been done in punishment for ■ speaking to the hon. member. On inquiry, he (Mr. Buddo) found that tho officer had been shifted because he was not, wanted in that part df the Department. He had been moved into another branch, and his salary had not been affected. Mr. Luke said the Wellington Civil Servants should be cleared from tho chargo that had been ma<le against them that day by Air. Forbes. Mr. Pearce denied, a statement that Mr. Merryweatfcer was not nn educated man. ne had had a college education. What he had said was that it might have been indiscreet for him to write? tho letter. Mr. Poolo said ho did not believe that Mr. Fisher's complaint was general. Ho did not believe that the majority of the men and women in the service wero afraid to faco tho lHiisic. Ho had .been interviewed by hund reds of Civil Servants and had never heard such a complaint as had been made. Mr. Dillon objected to those "pinpricks." Ho felt annoyed that men wero gelling up in the House as wet nurses for the men on tho cvo of an election. He felt ashamed. He would not stay in tho House ono month if he had to crawl to the working men.

A Reign of Terror. Mr. Hardy said I'ho complaint was undoubtedly true. He know there was a reign of terrorism among the Civil Servants. Mr, Rnssell: Stuff and nonsense. Mr. Hardy said ho had been told repeatedly by men "I should not bo seen talking to you because you arc a member of Parliament." Ho repeated that' the Civil Servants were afraid to speak to members of tho Opposition. . Mr. Massey, Leader of the Opposition, said he knew that thero was unrest and dissatisfaction in tho Public Service, and persons employed by tho State preferred to go to Opposition members because they were more likely to be. outspoken than Government supporters who were inclined to defend the Government'. When a complaint was made to him by an employee of tho State, ho usually went to 'In-' Minister for an explanation, and if the explanation furnished was satisfactory, he sent it. on to the complainant. If it did not seem to him satisfactory he tried to get an opportunity of bringing it up in tho House. They all knew that thero was in the Service a feeling that it was not safe to bo seen speaking to a member of Parliament and especially any member of the Opposition. He had heard

that a man with whom ho used to shako hands when ho mot him on tlio railway had boon discharged because ho was t'oo friendly with.him (Mr. Massoy).• He (lid not know whether it was true or not. There was,' however, that feeling, of fear among persons in the Public 'Service. The Hon. Mr. Duddo: I don't think there is nny such feeling. Mr. Mas.-ey. There is such a feeling and it is'tho duty, of-the Government' to do anything they cau to dissipate it. Mr. W. C. Buchanan (Wairarapa) said ho was surprised that any member had denied the existence of the feeling of insecurity for-it prevailed throughout. tho public service. The Minister for Agriculture (tho Hon. T. Mackenzie) said there was not a member of tho Cabinet who would treat a public servant unjustly because he stated his ease lo a. member of Parliament. The position described by Mr. Arnold might bo- correct, and ho declared, thai investigation would bo made into any case of unjust treatment that was brought under tho notice of the Minister in tfharge of the Department. He would deplore the existence of such a feeling as members had described. It was not within his knowledge that any advantage had ever been taken of any representation made by a public servant through a member t'o tho Ministry. The chairman of tho committee, Mr. J. Cr'aigie (Tiniaru), said that tho gardener Mr. Mcrryweatlier was apparently a very good worker, but he was rather indiscreet. The report was received.