THE MOKAU INQUIRY.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1220, 31 August 1911, Page 2

THE MOKAU INQUIRY.

MORE LIGHT. WHAT THE MAORIS THOUGHT. A NATIVE AGENT'S STORY. MAKING THE BEST OF A BAD JOB. The Native Affairs Committee yesterday heard further evidence concerning the Mokau land transactions. Ilr. W. T. Jennings presided. Other members present were Sir Jas. Carroll, tho Hon. A. T. Ngatn, Dr. Te llangihiroa, and Messrs. 1 ? . Mander, 11. J. Grecnslade, T. E. Y. Sedtlon, B. Dive, W. H. Herrics, and T. I'arata. Messrs. W. V. Massey, F. G. Dalziell, and J. Jones also attended. Tho only witness called was Ilr. Tuiti Macdonald, of Koputaroa, who described himself as a farmer and Native Land Court agent. At the" outset Mr. Macdonald sought to mako a statement in refere.uco to letters from Mr. H. D. Bell and "r'airplay," which had appeared in Tue Dcuiixiox, but the chairman said the committee could not enter into that matter. At the Beginning, Mr Macdonnld stated that ho was first asked to act for some of the Native owners of Mokau at the latter end of last year. Several applications for partition of the land were then before tho Native Lands Court. He was informed by Pepeno Eketoue, of Te Kuiti, that _ there was sonio trouble between the Natives and Mr. Joshua Jones concerning tho whole of the Mokau blocks, and that, under the circumstances, it would bo useless for the Court to proceed with tho partition. The Court dismissed the applications for partition. He then held a meeting of his clients with a view to deeidin? their position. Mr. Hardy had all paEe'rs in the matter authorising witness and imself to act on behalf of the Natives. At tho meeting of his- clients it was determined that they should come to Wellington to seo if there was anything in tho suggestion regarding leases held by Mr. Joshua Jones. Two days after tho dismissal of the application in tho Native Land Court, ami while, with his client?, lib was in Wellington.. thcr« appeared in tho Gazette an application uy Mr. Hermann Lewis for the pnrchase of. this block from tho Natives. A meeting was to- bo put before the assembled owners. " To Mr. Jtasscy: At a meeting of the Manianoto and Waikato Land Board, _ While they Svere in Wellington tho Natives saw a" report by tho Chief Justice and Chief Judge of tho Native Land Court showing that .(.hero wcro certain defects in tho leases held by Mr. Jones. Tho Natives then approached Mr. Bell to get his legal opinion in regard to the leases. At that tiim tliey heard that Mr. Skorrett was going to attend tho next meeting of the board in connection with Mokau matters. They got an opinion from Mr. 801 l that tho lea?.-, ot Block F was assailable, the other leases only after much litigation.

"The Company" Appears, The people ho represented owned a very small portion of Block F, so that Mr. Bell's opinion was against them. . lie attended the meeting of the board, a's also did Mr. Dalzioll and Pepene Ekotone. At that time there was a breach between Popcnc Ekefonc's and his parly, for the reason that l'cpcno Ekotono s sido wanted to soil to the company. Mr. Massoy: What "company? Witness: 1 took it', Jlr. Hermann Lewis's cumpany. Mr.. Massey: Do you kno\r the names ■of -any-'others'-iii , the company.—"No." i 'Sir James Carroll: You did not' know there was a company. —"No." ~ iWJtj J es.< ) ,fion,t;in J iKd,,tliat:.beforc. the reso-lution-was-put by.-the president of the board he objected on behalf of his clients on the following grounds:— . ■ (1) That the Natives did not , , want to Eell. Some of them, .Te Whiti-ites and Tohu-ites would not have sold even, for the weight of the land in gold. There was a "gospel" that would not permit them to part with their land. (2) They were entitled to more than was offered in t'ho resolution, ,£25,000. After all these protests against.tho resolution it was put. Before it ■ was put it was evident that it would be defeated as ho had in his party quite 75 per cent of tho owners of the blocks other than the F. His parlies owned practically all the other blocks. . As far as his memory served the voting was equal in the case of the F, and the Natives unanimously opposjd the sale of the other blocks. There were 25 or 30 people at the meeting and eight were his people. After tho meeting he advised, tho Natives to conio to Wellington and see Mr. Bell with a view to proceeding to test the leases for tho whole of the blocks. A Committee Formed. A committee was formed and authorised to act for tho Natives. It was given discretionary powers. A meeting of the committee was held at Mr. Bell's office. Mr. Bell wanted ,£IOO for other matters that had been before him. This was paid. Mr. Bell then mentioned a sum of .£BOO whicli was to bo a fighting fund. It was to be handed over to tho committee and paid out to Mr. Bell. They were told that, if they failed to find the, .£BOO that' wns an end of their case.. The' writ was issued shortly after tho meeting of owners in January, but was not served. To Sir .Tames Carroll: Tho writ was in connection with all the blocks. After seeing Mr. Bell the Natives returned to Mokau, where a special meeting was held for the purpose of raisins funds. It proved a failure. Some of the Natives tried to mortgage lands owned by them in Auckland, but this was n'so a failure. While they were trying to raise funds another application appeared ill the Gazette of February 2, 1911, in reference to the purchase of the block. He was not sure if it was in the name of Hermann Lewis. Witness proceeded to speak of a meeting of owners which was attended by Mr. Slcerrett. Ho was oot sure whether it was the first or second meeting. To Mr. Masfey: Ho did not know whether Mr. Skerrett was working for Mr. Dalzicll. He was showing tho Natives the benefits that would follow on their Ecllin?. He was rather at a loss to know on whoso behalf Mr. Skem-tt appeared. Ho spoke of the benefits that would follow a sale, and of tho alternative in sa far as litigation was concerned, and other matter?. .

At this stage Mr. Macdonald referred to a statement in evidence by Mr. Bell that it was wise of Mr. Hardy and himself not to have him (Mr. Bell) present. In fairness to himself and Mr. Ilardy he wished to say that they never had sufficient funds. Mr. Bell had said that the amount must be paid, and that he had attended to. Native matters prior to this transaction, and had not been paid. Witness consulted the committee in tho matler, and (hoy decided that, in view , of the fact' that they had no lands they could not ask Mr. Bell to attend to givo legal advice. Mr. Masse} , : "Are you aware that Mr. Bfll said on oath in effect that he had .£IOO in hand which would bo a sum more, than sufficient to cover his expenses in going to the To Kuiti meeting?" Witness: "So far ns the committee was concerned no attempt was mndo to pre'vent Mr. Bell being present We, did not want. Mr. Bell to appear and find that wo had no money to pay him," Further, lie co»( huied, they thought at that time that they could defeat tho resolution. . "Getting Away From Him." At this meeting, which was adjourned, witness could see that some of his people were setting away from him. They worn tifraid of this iSOt) for Mr. Bell, and rather than slop him in his (witness's) camp, and lx> saddled with .IiSOO they went over to the other side. In view of that fnet he asked tho board to adjourn for a short period. Mr. Ma-<*ey: "Was tho board present as a board?"— Yes. Mr. Massey: "At tho meeting of assembled owners?"— Yes. Sir Jos. Carroll: "Three member??" Witness: "The clerk and tho president. I ilon't think the assessor was there." Mr Mnsser: "Still the president was there in his official capacity?"— Yes. Mr. Massoy. "Did tho president take nuy active part?"— No.

Witness continued that 'on finding that his side were getting away from him ho asked the b.iard to adjourn for a fortnight to give Jiiin time to finally deeido what stand to lake. After (ho adjournment Mr. llnrdy and himself convened a mooting cf I lie owners at Te Kuiti. At that meeting it was uunnimously decided by the oomimtteo that (here was'no other course left but to accent what they thought would b? fair and just to bolt Siirtics— to the sellers and noii-wller?. Mr. ardy was then deputed to approach the company. To Sir Jnines Carroll: Ho meant Hermann Lewis's companv.

To Mr. Massoy: Mr. Dakiell acted for Hermann Lewis at all the meetings. Mr. Hardy went to Palmerston North and siw the other gentlemen of the company. On bis return he said (he company would give Ji2.50fl worth of fhares, in addition to the £25,000 they had already agreed to pay for the laud. The Native owners were quite pleased because, alt loiiffh they had sold their birthright, in the shares they still claimed an interest in the block. It was only on that condition they gavfl way, To y , '; ?J i,sf Py: JIo was not prepared to say what (ho capital of tho company was, J hat point was not explained to tho Natives.

Witness: At the third'meeting Judge Holland presided as chairman of tho v? V I correct, Mr. Dalziell?) It, . was at Hie third meetng, ho continued, iint Mr. 801 l had remarked that the Nave™ Tμ- C 'f h - r mis ¥ or tho comlnitteo were a lot of jays and fools. A member: Knaves or fools. Their Last Stand. iJPr 1C "V wc,n t oll t0 rcmark that a\i this final jncohng—it was their last Al-nt, , aS V Vcr V n C with the Mokau mntters-it was decided unanlm?usly, >n viow of the further consideration of JC2500 worth of sliares, and their still retaining an interest iu the block, and, further i,i v iow of litigation and other obstacles if another course were taken, to ask him to give his consent boioro the board. This was done. Hβ piTc his consent on behalf of his clients 1 hero was no other course for them to lake than that. Ho knew that at the' next, meeting ho would stand alono bv himself. After the resolution was pas*.' ed, a private meeting of those who had! consented to the sale was .convened with a view to ascertaining which would bo the quickest and cheapest way to pay the costs—not only in the present matter. It appeared that this matter had been gonif on for years, and there wcro certain prior sums that had to be paid by tho ■ owners. At the meeting it was men- ' tionert that a sum of 10 per cent, should be deducted from all those who were willing to pay towards the costs. Mr. Massey. What costs were incurred P Sir James Carroll: Legal costs? Witness: "Legal costs." It was for hie party and party combined to ' go over the accomits-find' out what was right and fair, and pay it. -They never got the ,£2500. To tho best of his Icnowedge the Natives had been paid for tho block. It was agreed that an agreement should be drawn up.that all who signed wished ten per cent, to be deducted from, their shares to go towards tho costs. Tho agreement was to go before the board but , it was not an agreement before the board. It was between tho Natives, Eketono and ■ himself. If any individual did not want to sign ho need not. It was optional, Io Mr. Massey: The president of the board approved. It was simply carry- • ing out the wish of tho Natives. To Sir James Carroll: There was no chance of getting tho .£2500. Some of tho - Natives had been paid in full. The president of the Board was to hold the amount in trust, until they demanded it. About .£I3OO or £UW had been paid into the cost account.

To Mr. Massey: He thought Ekotone was interested in the block through his wife He was anxious to tell. He would receive this money ill addition to hU interest in tho sale of tho block. "What is the Alternative?" Mr. Massey: "You seem to suggest that there was no alternative but to go to litigation. Are you awaro that there was a.n alternative?" Witness: "What is the alternative?" Mr. Massey: My point is that tho Nafives were, not boutid either to sell or determine the leases unless they felt inclined. They could have retained tho freehold.'—Yes. ■ '•. .- You are i clear, on-that ppin.tP-T-Yeain Further'examined,', witness- said-:the ■£§00 mentioned, by Mr. Bell was to havo been held in trust'to cover theicost of probable actions in the Supreme Court and other Courts. Touching another point, , Mr. Massey said that a majority of thirty-three owners, had .dealt with a property belonging to about' 200 owners.' .-■■■• Sir Jas, Carroll: "With the.proxies." Witness 'said thnt all tho owners of Block- H were present. There were only about six. There were about 180 owners of Block IF. he thought. • The- president of the Maori Land Board presided at tho moetiug of assembled owners. Mr. Massey next asked tho witness whether in all liis experience of Native land transactions ho know of any other' case in' which an Order-in-Council was issued to enable a transaction to bo completed, and at the same time avoid the limitation provisions of the Native Land Act? Witness replied in the negative. "Of course," ho added, "that is not to say Mr. Massey, that, it should not have been "issued." He did not know' of the Natives being interviewed by parties interested in tho purchase, iipart from meetings. "A Gigantic Swindle." • After a good deal of pressure the, witness admitted having expressed the opinion to Mr. Mflssey that the Mokau transaction was "a gigantic swindle." That would bs a street opinion, he thought. To Sir Jas. Carroll: Ho did not enlighten Mr. Massey as to the way in. which it was a gigantic swindle. , As to his agreeing with Mr. Massey that tho Natives could havo retained the freehold ho had been influenced by (he fact that the laud was subject lo loams with 28 years to run. Also, they wore influenced by tho fact that 'they could not raise the .£SOO.

To Mr. Xgata: The impression , was left on Hie miiids of the committee, after seeing Mr. Bell (hat they had to Ret this .£BOO or have no caso at all, and further (hat Mr. 801 l would not proceed with tho casn in theso circumstances. Mr. Bell had told some of the Natives that he was not a "pop-gun," that it would take more than ss. to load him, and get him to go to Te Kuiti. After tho second meeting Mr. Hnrdy informed Mr. 801 l of (ho position, and that they could not proceed any further in tho matter, and would have to do tho best they could. Prom tho time ho had become connected with the block ho bad not been in communication with nny member of the Government or of tho Native Department except the president of tho board. Ho was no longer of opinion that this was a gigantic swindle. Mr. Ngata: What made you express that opinion to Mr. Massoyf Witness: I suppose it has got to bo a political phrase. ' You have been a candidate for Parliament?— Yes. ; lii the Opposition interest?— Well—independent Opposition! (Laughter.) To Mr. Masscy: It was two sessions previously. Mr. Ma«?y: Extraordinary thins, I never heard of it. The witness was examined by most of the members of the committee, principally iii elucidation of his statement. To Mr. Herries he stated that his clients still considered the land was worth more than they had pot, They had considered that they had o two alternatives, and agnti to take less than the value of tho land in order to make tho best of a bad job. The examination concluded, and Hie. committee adjourned until 11 a.m. to-day,