THE MOKAU INQUIRY.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1214, 24 August 1911, Page 6

THE MOKAU INQUIRY.

MR. JONES .GIVES EVIDENCE. ; ; ANGRY WORDS. . COLLISION WITH THE CHAIRMAN. INTERESTING STATEMENTS. Tho Mokau inquiry ■ was continued by tho Nativo Affairs Committee yesterday. The members.present- wove.—The chairni'an (Mr. W. T. Jennings), Sir Jns. Carroll, tho Hon. A. T. Ngata, and Messrs. H. J. H. Okoy, To Rangihiroa, T. Parata, AY, D.S. Macdonald, T. E. Y. Seddon, H. J., Greensladc, F. Jlander, B. Dive, and W, H. Hemes. Mr. AT. F. , ' Massey, Leader of the Opposition, attended. Mr. Joshua Jones was called, and sworn ~as. the first witness. :3lr. Jones stated at tho outset that this •was not "Ins committee." 110 would, •obey tho.orders of tho chairman to niiswcr any question of Jlr. JJnssey's. He would have ti great deal to say perhaps on some other, occasion. The chairman remarked that the committee would coiilinc itoulf to tho business in' hand, and. asked Jlr. Massey to examine the witness. Answering questions, Jlr. Jones stated that he knew more abqut the JlokauMohakatino Blocks than nn.v ninn ulivc. He hail with them for tho piist thirty-.iii .ycais. They had a total area of 50,500 acres. He confirmed state- , ments mado by a settler na'med Jackson, in a letter read by Jlr. Jlassey, that coal was showing* on nearly every creek on the Ohura side, and .that in places 18 feet reel's wore cropping out. As to the quality of the land, Jlr. Jones stated that the hills would carry a. cotiple of sheep to the aero. , and the valleys were very rich. ■ .;' Jlr. Jla?.;ey was proceeding to read from ai'rcport by Sir Jiune.t Hector and fllj. Park, when tho chairman intervened. "Dp, you wish the committee to infer from your question," he asked, "that .that report is a report ou Mio coal on 1 the Jfokali Block? It has no connection with the Mokau Block at all." ■. ■ ■ Friction Begins. Mr. Jones: "I understand , .that I am giving evidencu—not the chairman." ■ The chairman: "You will have to conduct yourself properly!".. ■ •'• • Jlr. Jones: "I follow you!" ' ■ •>■■ Mr. Jlas?ey pointed-.out that Jlr.- Jones in his evidence was, giving'.testimony to the fact that the seams to' which tho roport referred went-right through to the other side of the'river. . ■ ! Jlr. Jones: '"You see, if I 'am to be contradicted " ' ' ■ ■ 'i'h\ chairman: "If yon don't conduct yourself properly, I .will suggest that tho committee ask you to retire." ■' ■- "I will retiro without asking," retorted Mr. Jones angrily, as he rose and proceeded to hunt for -his : hat. Jlr. Ma9sey: I think, Mr. Jones, you ought to finish your , evidence.■' Jlr. Jones paused on his way to tho door to remark: "I say these "seams lira on my side, and that this report refers to them. This gentleman'" (indicating tho chairman) says no. .He..is agent for. tho London syndicate that-.'swindled me, and that sort of thing outrht. to he 'stopped by tho committee. The chairman, has no right to do that.. ..' . . Mr.- Jones then went out.

The chairman remarked that tho retiring witness had inadb'a-statement which he (the chairman) would ask the press, in fairness to himself, not to publish. "Ho mado an assertion," said Mr. Jem nings, "that I am chairman of a London syndicate, and I know 'nothing at all about it." ■.-.■..-.'. Mr. Massby. "I am in a difficult p&sitioJ, nort." Mr. Ngata- suggested that Mr. Jones might be recalled when he. had cooled dowii. (•Mr. Massey followed Mr. Jones, intent on a restoration of harmonious relations.. "He is like tho old Maori chieT when tie was crossed," remarked -}h. Parata, referring to the departed witness., ' : 'Mr; Massey returned .with .Mr. Jones after an absence of a ffiiv minutes. 'Mr. Jones paused on the threshold to remark: "Gentlemen, I have returned here at the request of. Mr. Maftsoy. but if. the chairman wont 1 :, to give evidence, let him get iuto the box." .. ■ <Tlie chairman:- "Ton must conduct yourself— •" .' • ' ',"'•'• ;■ ■ ' . /'I Won't Stand It!" v Mr'. Jones: "Drop it! If yroare going to'insult me, I wont stand it! JTho chairman: "If yon do not conduct, yourself properly, I will leave it to the committee." ■ " ' . ;Mr. Massey (to Mr. Jones): "I suggest tbat -you should content yourself with answering questions." ";Mr. Jones: "Lot mo answer them, and don't let them contradict me!" ■ ,Mr. Massey then asked: Wjth regard to tbe block on the other side of the river are not'the people who own it th r fame, or practically the same, as tho;* who now own the Joshua Jones Block.'' .Mr. Jones: "They aro'tho Palmerston crowd." . • ' • ', , •Mr. Maseey. 'Ton.'.mean .the Mokau Land and-Es'tate Company?"— Yes. •They have a l«i?o (on the other side of Hie river) of 14,700 acres?— Yes. ( •It is coal-bearing country also?—Tes. •To further questions, Mr. Jones replied that he was not quite snre whether the coal was being worked at a There was a deposit-of brown coal at Ka.whia.-bnt so'far as lie know, this was tho only otber deposit of eoiil-in tliTaranaki provincial district, lhe company bokling the Mokau Block and the adjoining 'blocks would have practically a- monopoly of the coal-bcanng deposits in the Taraiiaki district. , An Offer by Capitalists. r ln 1532 there wtis'wi agreement between himself and the Native owners to tori: a-company-for working the coal and limestone, and to spend money on development. Capitalists bad then mado a> offer to hud" JE-15.U00, but this was. prevented'by:. some person inciting tho, AaHvc<= to throw the coal into the' river, thus alarming the prospective, investors. ■•.Witness-produced a cablegram received by his then solicitors, Messrs. fetafford a'lid Treadwell, in April, 1910, from a-per-son in London who stated he was acting with a company, and offered JBIOO.OOO for Mr. Jones's interests, two-thirds to bs paid in cash. ' The sender also said that tbo company would construct harbour works. The offer was for witness s interest's in tho land only. Witness and Mr. TreadwPll showed this cablegram to Sir Joseph Ward.who said tho construction of tho harbour would be a--grand tiling for: the Natives and tho.. country. This would have settled all The difficulties " s witness' would have surrendered his leases, but would have got an ox tension of the mineral leases, and the Government would buy the freehold from tho Natives, further, in view of tho fact that witness had'received no benefit from his--leases. Sir Joseph Ward said the Government would give him some consideration. Mr. Carroll was then away, but after his return Mr. Treadwell" and witness wiw him, and he also e'xpresred approval -of the proposed scheme. Mr. Treadwell then,' «t Air. Carroll's-renucst, drafted a.telegram to Sir Joseph .Ward, asking, tho latter to write a letter 'approving of the scheme, that could be shown to the people ' in London. This telegram was sent by Mr. Carroll in tho presence .of witness and Mr. Treadwell. Witness afterwards saw Mr. Carroll again and tho Minister then said the Cabinet had decided not to go on with the matter, but would set up a Royal Commission. Witness then asked whether Dr. Findlny was at the Cabinet meeting and Mt. Carroll said he was. Mr. Massey: My point is that business men were prepared to buy Mr. Jones's inlpre-st or the interests of tho lessees for 5100,000 and build a harbour. An Interview With Mr. M'Nab. The pale of the leasehold interest's by ••■f-ion at New Plymouth, by order of -er's executors, who bought them in, ■i tho subsequent transfer of the pro■rtv lo Mr. Hermann Lewis wero next ciii'ioned.' Mr. Jones stating that it was transferred to Mr. Lowis for £14,00(1 and mortgaged back to Lhe same parties for the ?ame sum on tho eamo day without any consideration passing. Mr. Massey: Did you at any time offer your interests to tho Government or to the Minister for Lands for tho Government?

Witness: Yes. I offered ray interests to the Minister, Sir. Jf'Nab, at a valuation on March 31, 1!IO8. -~ Witness said that Jliv Treadwell ami tho Hon. T. K. JJncdonnhl went to Jlr. M'Nab and had a long interview with him, after which they told witness that tho Minister declined to take over the leases at a valuation.. Hβ;did not himself see Mr. M'Nnb. I .Witness further stated that at ono time ho understood that the Government had arrangod to purchase tho freehold from tho Natives,' and Mr. Carroll told him that a sum of money had been advanced by the Government in this connection to l'cpciio Eketone, one of the Native owners. The price arranged was .CIa.OOO, equal to about ss. !)d. an acre, for tho Natives' interests. This' was in or about tho year IUO9. . , , T . The report of a committee of the Legislativo Council (October ■!), 1908), recommending the setting up of a Roval Commission, was put in and rend,.and witness stated that' Sir. Treadwcll on his\behalt interviewed Dr. I'iudlay, and told him that the latter.,had.slated that a Commission would not bo set up. and had also offered terms on behalf of Jlr. Hermann Lewis. ; "I believe I swore, said the witness, "and I said 'What on earth has Dr. Findlay to d* with Hermann-Lewis? To further questions, Mr. Jones replied that ho had drummed at the Government doors for two years, vainly asking lor an inquiry. When he asked Sir Joseph Ward why an inquiry was denied him, the Prime- Jlinister stated that the matter must have been overlooked, and added'that Mr. Jones'was entitled to an inquiry. Mr. Jones added that Mr. Treadwell, - who was present, at his interview with the Prime Minister, said: "Dr. Findlay says we shall never get an inquiry. Sir Joseph Ward thereupon said: Ihat is not my opinion. I promised Jones an inquiry, and he shall have it." ' I have not had it," coucluded Mr. Jonss. The Minerals. ... On December 8, 1910, he continued. Sir Joseph Ward, prior to leaving for liotorua, said to him: "When I come back you might come and fee- me, and I will fix tho thing up for you." Before he left for England, tho Prime Minister stated that he could not consent to part with the minerals on the Mokau property. 1 said to him, 'You might as well give mo those minerals in fee/ He said, .No, Mr. Jones. I-can't do that. There is a public feeling against it.'" Sir James Carroll: "That was assumrag that.it became Crown land?" : Jlr. Jones: "Absolutely. It was based oil the agreement." . , Rir ; Jas. Carroll: "A verbal agreement.' Mr Jones: "Yes, but thero is a wrnten document showing what tho. terms were. He explained 'that the particulars were contained in a letter'from Mr. rreaiiwell to the Primo'Minister, dated Juno '27, 1910... . . ' Further. Questions. : Mr. Massey asked Whether Mr. Jones knew anrthing of an'-oner made to the Government by Jlr. Jennings, as'agent for Mr. Kemp-Welch. . Mr. 'Jones replied that Mr. Jennings had told him so, but he had. no documeatarv evidence on- the point. Mr. Kemp-\Velch was an agent or trustee lor tho Flowers people. ■ Mr: Massey next asked whether the witness had heard a statement that the Flowers Estate had spent £5000 in developing the prolan-. this true, and was r.oi the part ef tho S.M

•Mr. Jones stated that "this man Flowers;" had said that he bought the prcu»rty' for himself. ■ "As a matter < fact." said Mr. Jones, "ho bought it lor ine, and was paid one thousand guineas for doing it, and was subsequently hf> guilty of fraud by the High Court, for having acted in such a manner. In the interim, Mr.. Jones continued, .he n-ent to Flon-ers. accompanied by a solicitor named Jeliicoe.-.to pay him (I lowers) for buying tiro him. Fiowers said'ho would not take it, and that the property was his. Later, /lowers rent out a cable, directing that the land should bo surveyed. Mr. -Jpnes said hehad warned Flowers tbat lie had no right to assume ownership. 1 lowers Had expended the cost of .the survey improperly while he was a trustee (for Jones), aad'whilo tho money due to him waa lyinj. available. . ■H this stage it was decided to adjourn until 11 o'oclock to-day. ~,.,, ■Jl.r. Jones stated before he left tli.-i Ira had some information which he would ask'.leave to lay before the committee at its next sitting. ... . t 1,. "I think tho committee have treated you very well, indeed," raid Mr. Mas?ey, iind Mr Jones concurred. 1 Mr Masse v ad-ded that the position was tbat he had" finished his examination o, Mr. Jones. ' The committee would mini) V questions tlioy considered desirable. With this, the meeting terminated.