TRAMWAY AWARD.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1051, 14 February 1911, Page 7

TRAMWAY AWARD.

CONFERENCE OPENED.' CITY COUNCIL AND UNIONS. ; " •' some.'.problems. . A conference in connection with tho demand of tho local Tramways Union for a now award opened at tho Town Hall Inst evening. Tho delegates, representing tho City Council were: Tho Mayor (Mr.\ T. M. Wilford, M.P.), who presided, and Councillors Frost and Smith. Tho union was represented ;by Messrs. .D. Dalton (president). A'. - Sutherland (secretary), ,W.hito, and,A. Mills (vice-presidents),. A. G. Ward (treasurer), M. Wlialcn, 11. Dunn (motormen's renresontatives), M. Boylo and, B. Church . (conductors' representatives), T. Hannah and J. King (slied representatives), \V. Tomlinsou . (power house), D. Hyson (overhead department),' P. Burke, track department), 'i l . liarrand (permanent wav). Also present (in an advisory capacity) were: Mr. S. Kichardson (tramways engineer), Mr. ' M. Cablo (assistant engineer), Mr. P. M'Coll (power hotiso_ superintendent), Mr. Q. E. James (traffio superintendent), Mr. 11. I.oah (enrshed foreman), Mr. J. liusscll (overhead superintendent), and Mr. It. 0. Petersen (accountant). '■ Tho Mayor said tho first question to be settled was • whether the- proceedings should bo open to tho press. The council thought it "advisable to have tho matter absolutely open, since tho public wero concerned. "Nothing to Conceal." i ; Mr. Sutherland remarked that although it had always bet li 'the custom in tho past to'hold conference's.<if this kind in camera he thought the union/representatives would bo agrecablo to admit the press. Tho union, liko tho council, bad nothing to conceal. : The Mayor said this course would do away with any suggestion of star chamber methods, "why should wo not lay our cards on the table," said his Worship, "and then, whichever side has the j best case will bo able to show it?" '

Mr. Sutherland asked whether, during the discussion; the balance-sheet for tho past twelve months would be discussed? Tho Mayor said it was' not out yet. Tho council had not got it ihcmolvcs. ' Mr. Sutherland then asked if any questions of finance would bo raised ?

Tho Mayor: "It will be necessary to show that: your demands, if granted, would involvo an annual increaso of JI&S7S in wages." They • would havo .to' go into this, Mr. Wilford continued. That was what : Hr. Petersen had been asked to attend for. The monthly tram-

way returns, which would bo referred to, had already been placed before tho public: i Mr. ■ Dalton'said'that unless they had a private shorthand writer they could riot refute any statement mado by tho press.

;The -Mayor said the press was always very careful and competent wen were always put on this sort of work. Personally he thought everybody should know all about theso matters. Tho council proposed to meet the union reprcscn- 1 tatives in a, spirit of absolute fairness' and conciliation. "I think you know," concluded his Worship; "that if jrou mako out a case you will got consideration, but you will, have to make the caso before you got it." '' ■ . j The union representatives at this stage retired for. a'few minutes,'to confer. On

their return they stated that thoy had agroed that tho pross should bo admitted.

: 'A Local. Award. In" reply to': a question' by Councillor FroSt, the. Mayor, said the' Only .question they had; to consider'was that. of Van award for their'bwn men.; They, had no concern at all with a Dominion award.' '

Mr. Sutherland said thero had, been no legislation making, tho 'Dominion •award possible.' It was tlicrcrord understood hu' award , would,' bo taken, at cacli centre. At first it' lia'd been intended to. "tkk ,a Dominipi) award, but/afterwards, it union slioiild, seek nil award Separately, becauso it was found that tho ftgiuinioii Award was not practicable or legal, fls no provision had booii madojor.it. It .had,been, deckled by tho' Wellington Union togofor local award pui^.nnd.simple. 1 ■■ It was agreed that tho word "DominIdn" as appliejl.to tho,award should bo dropped. ' '•'Tlio Mayor said ho had never presided.at orio'of these conferences before, but ho thought ; thc best way "would be to tnko-the first, item, thrasli it out, and then go oii to-tho next. ' '

inen.Eoon.io.-ino next.' -.. . ' f>The ■'union.-representatives ■ concurred." '.'.The.Mayor--said second-clius ■motormen, in their first year's service, were - now paid Is. Id.- per hour. The demand'was Is; lld„ Motormen with over three years'servico wero paid Is. ljd. per hour. '•;■ : Mr. , Sutherland: No, your.' AVorship. Tho number is limited to 15.V'In Auckland- and in Dunedin, '■ ho continued, motormen who had'sorved for three years got Is. Ijd. per hour. In Wellington motormen did not got is. IJd. until a man K'ft. or died becauso tho. number of men who received .this wage was limited to 45. In Wellington,.-Mr. Sutherland- stated, inotormen with over one year of tervico dud under two i)ow got Is. id;;' over-two .vears and.under threo Is.' Id.; over three. Is. Id. .' ■ : Tho,Mayor: Is; lid. , V The Lucky' Forty-five. ■■ Mr. Sutherland: No, your'M'orship! .If they are in the lucky,, fortv-fivo' they get that: ■■■•.'•

: The Mayor said the demand was that motormen should be paid Is., lid. in their first year, in their second year Is. 2d., in their third year _ls. 2}d., Jind afterwards Is. 3d. Ho invited the union representatives to stato tho considerations on which* they based these demands.

The Strain of the.'Service. ' "Our reason for asking for more money »n this centre,", said Mr. Sutherland, who was first to accept the. Mayor's invitation, "is that, tho work is altogether different to tho work in other towns,". Here, ho continued,\ there was a fast, servico nnd exceptionally heavy loading. -The gradients wero, heavier, and more numerous than jn other towns. Tho streets wero! narrower, which was a causo of anxiety to. tho men from start to-finish, and the way tho , traffic wandered about was a further, cause of anxiety. .Tho wear and tear, was tellins on the men. On. the other hand, cost of living was higher by at least 30 per cent. than, in other towns, and the strain in working ears on men was lengthened' by..: tho fact that the hand-brake was moro used hero than in other scrvjces. In . Auckland or Dunedin, when a man had spent thirtysix'months in the Servico the.v gave him Is. lid. an hour, which motormen got hero after five or six years' service, if they, were in the "forty-five." At' tho" last Presbyterian Conference, held in! November, Mr. Sutherland remarked, when the,secretaryMvas moved hero, to Wellington," Mr. "Aitkon moved, and' it was carried, without dissent, that .his salary; fjiould bo. increased by JCIOO a year on , account •of tho increased'cost of living'; iji Wellington. Motbrman . Whelan, representing tho motormen. said he hail'licen in tho service practically since its initiation, and ho considered that an increase in wages was called for.,. In support of this view he cited increased cost of living. Many motormen nnd conductors had joined as single men, and had sinco married. Tho physical strain on tho men was far creator than in any other kind of unskilled la-; hour (hat ho knew of. A man had to work in all weathers at all hours, often to his detriment. Personally the speaker had felt after three years' service, and felt now, tliat he was not tho man physically Hint, ho,was when he joined. There wa'« little in the way of promotion to look forward to. Thev culd hot all Ix* inspectors. TTo thought tho men should liavo something to look forward to. "Not a Living Wage."

Motorman Dunn said Js. Id. per hour in Wellington was not a living wage. It gave motormen on an average J!2 12s. Cd. a week, leaving out Sunday work and overtime. The work made a bigger call on a nian's physiquo than any other class of work ho knew of. A majority of {■lie niolormen were married, and had families. They could not do much for wives and families on 412 12s. a week. Next Saturday night ho would havo worked twenty-eight days in succession, and ho was not the only man who had done this. This would pivo him on an average jC3 4s. per week. : Then the'motormon woro subject'to broken shifts, ciuht

houror' work being extended, over thirteen hours. Tho men . lind •to ' sijiii 'n'll anil oil' three tiniies, mid travel "to' and from work in their own eime;'. Motormen took a'greater danger than n labourer, nnd yet got !cv-.s in wojji'Si-.Motorftien had to be temperate, .and,, passed a. stilt, examination 011 'entering.-,.'he' Ei'rviee. Vory fe\v could pass tho' examinallon- again after a' few years'.service. ..Man,after man.had left tho service beeanse lie. considered the .compensation,insiifiicicnt. In tho railway service the speaker had been paid 8?. .(Id. per day. without, having,.to , bear [aiiy, re- ' sponsibility.. lleie. as'a jnotormaii, wjlh n heavy responsibility, lid' was paid Bs. Bd. per day." In Melbourne, ,for the samo class of work, he had received'.C2 lGs. Gd. for 19 hours. Here lie received JE2 12s. per. week.. Living in -Melbourne was rheaper. .' , . Mr.'. White'(vice-president), said .it,-had been alleged that a number-of-.jiien,"wero leaving, through .dissatisfaction with, the management... More had'lpft during,,this, last jnpntli.) th'auL..previously.', Tho. real reason. wnsVthiit'. thd ineri were' gettiiig played, .'.raqu who; had - three years who- was' nut turning"' greyv Was 'hero any other strvico whero the'strain

was.as/.great?, .Medical testimony could bo called, if'necessary, to"pr^yo,tho strain of tho..work. "Sickness that .occurred, was chiefly, internal and in the legs. In other cases lit. was -"nerves." Would "it l.ot bo" businesslike, in tli.o council to retain its old'hands? But should not tho council pay them so that'they would havo something, in hand, when they left, after spending tho best years, of their ,lifo'. in the soryieo?; After, six.'or seven years in tho service .'.the men wero spent. Tho lonKer they remained the wor'so they .wore getting. 111 exceptional coses, .the speaker admitted, the,ra were men whom it seemed impossible', to kill \yitl) an axe., The work was'of such a nature that a mnn silTcrod a/severe start, sufficient to shake

his nerves, several tinies'a day.. Continually meeting with accidents and narrow escape-) from accidents .was keening down. . ' . Jfotorman Ward said a number of pood n>en had left, the service to take up other work at smaller wages This in itself suggested that the remuneration was insufficient. Since tho. speaker, had joined tho wliolb of the office staff had received'an increase, but the motormen had not.

' Jfr. Dalton paid a enrisidorntion . that would hnply to, all the was that t.h'* obtaining meals at irregular lioUrs involved mlditioinlcxptuse. : '' . The .Case for tho City, ; . ; The Mayor, putting tho care for. tho city,- said-.tho averago earnings of motormen in Wellington wero liitrhcr than in Christchurch, Auckland, or Dunedin. Tho average earnings of a first-class'inolorman in 'Wellington during tho past year amounted to .£3 Bs.-Bd. Tho. cars.'ngs of 31-cond-class motormen during tho. same period averaged i! 3 Bs. Id. - During the year 0H,741 hours overtime were _ worked and tho sum of .£7657 was paid. in overtimo wages. The total . .wages period <M*. tho tramways during the year totalled •£!>!),000, K point -with which ho agreed absolutely was the work told-ori It was norvcrracking work. TIo put it. to them that this was. ljccnuse men had too much of it and worked too long hours. Why, continued his Worship, should men have, to work all tho -days of tho week arid 1 not' get Sundays off- regularly ? -Tho council believed that if-a snaro list wero introduced tho men who'now worked overtime •would escape tho norvo -trouble: that at present afflicted; them, 'nnd-iwoiild <1» able to have- n living wage for : six days instead of seven. As-the council %-hoy paid .E7057 per year in ovcrtiimo- wares (paid at tim'o and a half-rates), by the establishment of a snaro list it would bo enabled to employ, inoro men and; givo them e. 1 - living wago without working :the?<S 'terribly, long hours. -If .a' sparo list wtro provided, th«-!councili could.-pay its rmotorroen. moro, than'lJ?2 artWecK f .f6r six ,days! work.«:-It. .was tho duty 'of - the: council to seo. that- the,men did iioti overwork themfjelyes.ii The sneaker, did' not-.wonder that-tho memfplt'the strain^under--pre-sent condltioni. As.tho of! a ipotftr-rar,-h6 know 'what' it fclt'-likoi to be always on tho alert: :!

Th« Hsicnce of the Mattsr. v • Tho cfscnijo. of tho matter,, Jlr. : Wilford went on, : is that we must employ as many men as wb can, ; and give overybody. fair hours. :W6 must establish a grading of motormen ant| wine out.•tho-, "forty-five"' linjit.-fib thaUtlie wholo;of the men,' after being.;lp.tho service thrco' years,,will-get' tlio top wage, .irrespective of whether they are in the forty-fivo or not.'. "The increase, that you ask for," remarked tho Mayor .to . the union ' representatives, "means- an. additional payment of .^2710 per -year to -motormen. alone. When ;to this, you add overtime, you -will .understand what a.hucQ increase would ibo involved." . ,c. j . -■ The. capital, cost -. ;i: ; Wellington ' tramways", ill'.: .Wilford-1 wont- on;' ;was 'X 503,781. The" not surplus for tlio year, according to tho last balance-sheet, was 1102 per cent., on- this.nmount., This .was 'after writing-off-interest," fsinking fund, depreciation, arid everythirig-t-It •' would bo.bcst for'tho city to'provido nloro rii.cn instead-of :bronging about tho lamentable result upon tho men about which they had heard that!' evening. ' Employing more men-would-help to solvo tho problem of finding-work for men who como to him wanting Work, and all could bo given n reasOnablo -wa?e." ■ Incidentally, Mr.: Wilford inCYitioripd that f6nio i motdrmen had'lately i'eanied as iAudli'Rs-'-iES'to JCB lOs.'ipor These amourit'(,""of fcourse; - wero. exceptional. The ' average earnings of a- first-class motornian per •week, as hoi had stated; wero -?3 Bs. Bd. 1 lirregard to statements that'men had left tho, service rccpritly, Mr. Wilfnrd quoted from a-list ~iri-his hand ' which showed that two of the "men had' left to go on tho land, another to cntor the Government service, another to open a shop, 'another to enter a'business "in Tasihariia; nnothor to engage-in sawmilling with a relation; and another to take up a privnto position in this-city. Two motormen had como to him during the last /week, and asked to be. given work in, tlio sheds. Unfortunately, •_they "could 'riot hlways find positions ucsired in this way.' At tho present time-tho position , was lliat tlio motormen asked for increased wages. This, however, 'would' not'help -to solvo their health"problem: r ;T|ic.way to solvo that was' to shorten-th'e' hours they worked. If tho council, paid"' its motormen ten' pounds- k week, and they .worked-tlio samn hoill'S.- they would undergo the same physical ■ Motorman Dunn said if they got a living ivjago tlicy would - riot havo to work long hours. Jlr. Sutherland stated' that the . spare list-had not been a succcss'anywhere. ; - ; Councillor Frost said-that.with' Councillor Smith ho had found by recent inquiries that ' spare-list men in other contres made good wages, fiiid sqmetnnos mftdo more thau'tlic regular men.- "

•: • "Sparc List" OpposDd. ; 1 • Mr.',Sutherland;sold, in common with other labour men, lie opposed a spare list., It tended to; attract , an uAdesirablo class of men, who did not liko constant work. Tho Mayor raid there were . 180 men on tlio spare'liit in Sydney..;. ' v "In n service that employs four thousand men,", said a union .representative. "Three thousand men; said Mr. table. Mr. Sutherland, said the spare list gavo ofl'icials too much power, to order ft man to stand down.. It was an abuse lie would not like to see creep into any service.. \fter the spare list proposal had-been discussed at lengthen various aspects, tlio Mayor said ho was quite, .willing; ;0n behalf of the city, to send'.three Minion representatives up *to Auckland to go into the merits of the sparo'liSb Tho Auckland men had advised Councillor Frost that if tho Wellinßton men understood the system .they-would, not, opposa its' introduction."

"Dismal.Oln,"Mr. Sutherland: We ■ have .' heard 1 so much dismal din ttbout the'spare.llst'system that wo hope it will never ;bo mtrodiiend in any civilised systom; ;•• • The Mayor: "It is in' operation in' Bydnsy, Auckland; Christchurch, and Dunedin." Councillors Frost, Smith, nnd'h'm-. self (ho continued) had .talked the thine over before coming to tho mefcting, and had agreed that it would bo-a grand thing for the citv. If the nien-would admit'tho principle of th 6 spare list tho council would lay a definito proposal; before tliini. r, Mr. White asked if the council delegates hadKceiyed definite'instructions.to insist on the snare list; ' • The Mayor:, The toiincil have' ltever,(lissussed tho' matter. They left it to 1 us, and. having looked into thd\r>attor; wo heltove the spare-l«t" is th* btf'st • tiling 'for tho men nndth'e best thing r<ir\th-e----•'Aft«r *oro«' further-desultory diArusMon, the Mayor stated that ho was willbg to

sit.' as long hnd ns late as the union representatives liked, but reiterated; his ■suggestion' that members of tho union should go to Auckland to investigate the working of the sparo list system. Moiormnn'Dunh asked that the couneil proposals should Ijo set down on paper and laid on tho table". ■ Mr. White: Wo might'b? able to assent to your proposals to-night if you laid them before us. . . . ~ The Mayor: But you say that you wont havo tho spare list. In tho demands 1 find the&o -words: "There shall be. ; no spare list." . . ii,v. Jlotorman Dunn: That is what avo ask. We dont say tliht it is going to bo so. •Mr. Sutherland: Would it be possible to say what would be paid to the spare list men arid what number would bp employed? ' ; • The Mayor:' Yes, we could put that before you l'u u weok. :. • "On the- Hop." Mr. Sutherland said they wero undoubtedly "011 the hop," in tho niatter'of the' spare list. They wero clear, however, on the point that' they would not bo agreeable to tho spare list ■ under tho' conditions obtaining in other centres. • The Jlayor remarked'that if the council had allowed tho .matter of the, spare list to bo sot aside until tho proposals in regard to motormen had gono through they-could not havo brought it up afterwards. . ' Mr. Dalton: Do you say that you will give us a higher rato of pay if we accept the spare list than if wo don't ? The Mayor: I do not say anything of tho kind. If you will' consider the matter among yourselves and then come to us and say, "we will consider the question of tho spare list, .what do you propose?— we will put our proposals before you." ; Moforman Dunn: You have a big advantage. You are skilled in debito and we aro not. , . - ■ . • .

Motormari Boyle: You say. tho sparo list works woll in Auckland; we say it works badly in Sydney. . 1 ' Tho Mayor-. Then I should say it.would be far better, for us to follow Auckland than Sydney!

"Wo expect to have a lot of rough passages," remarked the Mnyor soon afterwards, "but I'think we will get through, somohow!" .. . . .. . .... ; <

An. Alternative Proposal. ; ■ o'. ■ i In reply to' questions, tlio Mayor slated that i£ a' workable roster were brought in by the union,' ti roster that would obviate long hours arid 'overtimo, the council; would set aside the question of theAparo list.' Men employed on the spare list, if it wero established, Mr.- Wilford continued, would have to bo paid a' reasonable minimum' living wage. Mr. Sutherland: Then the spare list men will bccomo what we have in the service now, stand-by , men:" "What do you call a living wage?" asked Motornian Dunn. 1

"A wage on which a riiari can live," replied Mr. ( AVilford, and ho declined to give any more precifo . reply. Finally, after some further discussion; it wits agreed that the .council should draft proposals as to", hours and pay for motormen and conductors (in their first, second and/third years of service) and spare-list men. Tho, union on its part Is to prepare a roster of working hours arid, conditions'calculated to obviate the necessity for long hours arid overtimo or, tho introduction of, a spare list., The respective proposals are. ;to bo - .interchanged prior to;tho next meeting of delegates.. i- ,, nnviiiq arrived at this understanding the conference adjourned. , It : will resume on Tuesday evening next at 7.30 o'clock.-