PUBLIC WORKS EXPENDITURE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 990, 3 December 1910, Page 6

PUBLIC WORKS EXPENDITURE.

FINAL DEBATE OF THE SESSION

RAILWAYS, ROADS & WATER POWER

'BUILDING SCHEME.

' 'The- deb ato on. tbo Public Works i f% Statement was opened in-./tho House I 'at 25;niinutcs : 'to 1 :p;in. yesterday, by '-,/-; ' vMr;-'Massey,/.who said the: Govern/menitproposals;,'in. regard to hydro- •:•* electric Schemes/were i extravagant and- ' ' reckless in the extreme. They, con- ; stituted a leap ,in tbo dark, .for they t hid ".been .formulated upon insufficient -s information. The .details of. tlie scheme ' • wero wanting, and it was not/fair." to .' ' Parliament and the country to go on ] with a scheme ' of' which the . details /:. ; wero' wanting. Even tbo Otago schemo '.; hadiiot been, a profitable one, .though j . • tho lino .was a short one, and. the j .-:/ ;' ■ market;was'tliere. Later on it might, f he'admitted, be .profitable. But there i '' ■ ■ was no comparison between' this short- j . line schemo and what, tbo Government ' >- proposed -to do. .: -The . same applied -to £ iu'pC the proposed,-Wailii Company's,scheme, J 'Ibecauso :in that. , .case' the ■ .company •ft;would'.want the power six days-a week, /and: for/twenty-four hours a day. He !' a> ihad' been "looking' up itlio/subject,-• and ■ he: confessed -he/had: changed his ideas 1 as to the'likelihobd of tho success of the ' scheme. > '' I U ; Coal In Competition With Water. j fo v 1 \'The'rccenVauthorities : wero of opiniop that" when'there- was choap coal,' it :///-;' could /easily - compete 1 with water 'power. 1 ;'■■■ In Auckland, for instance, where coal ] 3:>. '. was effiap, they ..'could' generate elec- j ;-' tricity cheaper by that means than by , S''r;: .water/'power. 'He -quoted from- "The , ft ; Engiheer". newspaper in'support of his j //; ; general statement that a gas plant , .y'.l./ffith'.-an ammonia, recovery could pro- j tr'. i-' energy ; cheaper -than - water. The cost in; New: Zealand would bo 8 per [ !' cent., and he doubted if the Govern-,. j: : - - 1 mcnt could.makotko sclicmo pay:, at f;: that'rate./:'Why;, he'asked, should not ... i. . . tho local bodies have tho opportunity / of trying tho schcme, so long as 110 | .'.'monopoly ;.was created?. If tho Wailii -, Company' were allowed to do it,, why j ,-'■> not'-'local '.bodies ? Mr.' Holmes (Govftv'.:' ernment "Engineer) .' had', stated that i:'.unless the local - authorities wero. prepared to take all their -power'from. the J ?,v - : -.! Government the- scheme should'not'bo J : gono>on/with. Now, in Dnncdin, the pi : city:.bad':its own supply, and in Auck- j i ; " -land and .' Wellington,:;there were also ( for'the generation of. elecfciVV ; tricijrower and .light; , In..Christchurch the-city was 'prepared,to 'get'.its' own j scheme. Why,-:th<ai, : sHoiild, not the Government .eivo...thorn;. ■ the'. l chaiico? ' I. . Even Mr. Birks, who was very optimist fc'vfiytic,;: said; tho:/Government: -could, not J a!;/:, /compete; with 'Dunedih;/, neither - could ; its scheme bo a success in Auckland. ■ j Whero Does the Monßy Go? • ! [?/';;//-;:/'/ Passing/ .on 'to :another subject,; Mr. ■ ..'/". Massey' asked' the Minister' to"7 state /M'/.:/: the /particulars/of the . expenditure of ;V// /.'- -tho'j£3ojooo 'to L £3o,ooo which' was voted . : • ' snimally for upkeep' of main roads. /:.- ■ He:urged' that the local bodies;. of : needed aEsistance. in keeping up/the Main:: South: Road. "He .also contended that the construction of tho /;//: / Stratford-Ohgarue .' railway from tho northern end should bb.-conimenced. .It '. ' would pay from : tho. -b^innihg,'. as,, it : . Ttould go through good country. The ; ' ;East Coast lino'should :be gone 'on'iwitli," ?;-'o : ..hoped " the /Minister would. :be , s''/ / . able to /contradict the ruihour.' that tho S-'" ?woik wag : to stop at'Motu.-,, [V:/^i'/,; • :..:Mr'.-: M'Kenzid^'^-/I. " have/contradicted !/ ;• it half-a-dozen times.: ; : . Ijl.; '-/.'. ' Mr.: Massey-. next'urged the construc'tion'of.'ai' short/piece:of lino'from; Pa'e- ; fi/-;',/ loa-^to 'the: main'lihe' at/ Pokeno. ' p:"-. This. was. ically part of tho East Coast |M-,/. line; : i and would;; also /greatly .Shorten . fip .- the -transit:, between Auckland /'.and ' .Thames, y./'/;.::'.' ; ; y k . Tfio. Primn Minister on Water, Power. |/' ' ' The Prime itiniste'r declared th'at ; the ?,':/ ;'. proposals , jvero not •in tho f;' / '. mature of-: a.leap dark.' He wouldsay <that h'o/'reoognised as much as anysv/one,'elso; that' it' . was ' an; undertaking; j-: .which required to; be' approached with" . • caution..' Liko other big works, there |: was a risk- about it.. If they had waited i;:#;; until their / success were assured, no [K/ //-railways, /tramways,./etc., '.would ever j. have been started. . , '• ' ' Mr. Jlassoy: But this is a/new kind /'..of" "undertaking:'; ' ' ; , "' j;!';'/'' '.Sir Joseph' Ward: Yesi .in; New Zea- . // land.'. / ■ 'Continuing,/ : Sir/'Joseph iWard ../said ; k - that lie thought the. best' results could. be . obtained under Stato supervision. . i"'.Mr.'T. E. : -Taylor: Diit'you divi'•dends. ; V-;/: ■ ' Sir Joseph Ward: No, only interest ' and: depreciation;. ; , ;v; / ; .Continuing,: Sir. 'Joseph Ward ■ men- ; tibried that wheii ho was last in Ameri. ica; an/ effort -,was-being • ma.do ,to prevent f&:^tho v erectipu> of - ; /any further- power houses' at Niagara,, lest the existing companies ■ should.'nm, short of water.' '/ .. This* showed the commercial -success.of. those 'works/ .'.Ho believed that if the ;;;. /, Coleridge, schemo. were put into operaf . tion. it / would ,b,o such : a success that fe;/' vothers would quickly/follow. -' - Stratford-Ongaruo Railway. ii! /: : / : , ! The .Prime Minister , then- went on to, 1/. :, .refor.' to the : Stratford-Ongamo -. line. /;.'.. How;, did; Mr.; Massey. want tho money . allocated P. . , . . . ' ■ "Mr. MasseyV£so,ooo'at either end. ■ .7/-;. / _'Sir ..'Joseph Ward, said that, at the ./; • present rate the liiie ■ would bo finished :-/.. in-less than .five years. '-, In two years -\ / and a half 30; miles of continuous line would be finished. . The balance could /; ■' 'be put in from both lines. If .Mr. Mac•scy's schemo. wero : adopted tho people would'not get full use of the .line as it /=;//;.was'pushed ahead. The policy in vogue / was a sensible one. As regards the ::;/ East" Coast 'line,'ho. had never heard that it: was : intended to stop-at Motu. 7 '// He believed that the Government should A/;: .. . make up its: mind as to tho amount i- which -should be borrowed. In carrying {<'■'/ ■ out:the public works in different parts ;/': .; ' of /the Dominion, you could- n'ot get the .. • machine .working perfectly. Ho was -/;,/; satisfied tho. Department was trying to ' get the. best results. Tho railways in New Zealand compared as regards cost ;..:/ "; as favourablyas those 'of tho same -.-, /' gauge in other coiintries. J Cost of Floating Loans. 'fiy■'■' ■' ■.'/ ,Mr. : Herries (Tauranga) dealt with V-/, the;cost.of floating several loans. He :0 V/, said , the_ Houso ought to be given an i'/'./; . explanation as t-o tho actual-. cost of |5-: raising; the. last loan of _ £1,850,000. Hi- -/' ..."Thefo-was-.also an extraordinary item of ./ =£65,000 of 35 per cent, inscribed stock K.V: . : to "coyer- of /raising £1,250,000, which . --\vjas apparently - the loan under tho ' . '/Tinanco -Act, "1909. • That was . an enor- [/ ■ ' .. mous increase, over the. cost of'floating fe;. loans in -previous years, especially it it fV-V.';, had nothing'to l do with the .cost of con- ; ■ version. Ho also quoted from. Hansard f " .a 1 statement, made By the Prime Mmister last session ,in • connectionvwith' a | . . loan of a million and a half. Was that ; ■ loan ever raised? Ho could not find i : ' : it in the . accounts. Was it abortive, ('. or 'Was tbo Primo'Minister referring to

temporary debentures? There was no permanent;loan and k :no; conversion of j ;tha£ amoxint last-year.' ; - -1' • c Mr. Hogg on Roatjs. g Mr. Hogg (Masterton) strongly con- £ demned the methods pursued in. settling the King Country, on the ground that there should have been more close, settlement. Tlio Roads Department, I 'ho* "further' complained, was - being J starved. ; . c ' Hon. .R. M'Kenzie: Spending more 1 money,{hail ever! Mr. Hogg said not a shilling had t •fcuen spent by the Reads Department t i:i his district during tho last year, c and other : members could make the same' complaint. The Government could s find millions for a Dreadnought, and \ 'for: those mountebanks, as: no would ] call theni,/who -.were to come from England to give military training, and for railways to keep members in leading T strings, but could not find money for j roads for the settlers. I Rlakurl for Water Power. f ~-Mr.,. Eoss • (Pahiatua).-. upheld the « merits of Makuri as a source of hydro'electric power. 7. : ' 1 Mr. Luke ' (Wellington Suburbs) ex- s pressed approval ..of. tho policy of. de- ' veloping hydro-electric power,' as the best thing that could bo done for the prosperity : of'the country. While al- 5 ways in favour of safeguarding the 1 rights, and powers of local authorities, he considered that these schemes should ' be State enterprises, because in most } cases, more than one local.'body was 1 concerned. ' Ho thought tho official E figures should'be TCinodelled so as to givo industries tho use of power at the "■ lowest rates. ■ "" t Unexpended Votes. t ' Mr. Pearco (Patea) complained that J only about half the amounts voted for ' -roads were expended, apparently for c want of money, and yet money could 1 be .found for extravagant water-power 1 t schemes. He : alluded also.to the Mid- t land Railway another work .where £ much money was being wasted and pro- 1 tested against the disproportionate ex- * penditure on tho railways in,the North ' and South. Islands respectively. Th° , vote of £5000 for tho Napier-Gisbonio ' railway was , meant to influence '. tho | Napier election.' It was too small to bo } of. any, other liso.. Tho railway would cost, £10,000 a mile to build,' and at the 1 rate' of £5000 a year it would be built; 1 in 320 years: He urged that, tho 1 Mount Egmont railway sliould bo com- < pleted as soon as, possible, and also ; ..pressed the claims of tlie Opunako. 1 railway. : v : - 1 ■ -.■Mr: Jennings (Taumarunui) said the i taking over of the Roads Department 1 by tho Public Works Department had * not benefited the settlers nor the country. .: ■■ ' > Stratford-Ongarus Lino. / Mr. Jennings (Taumarunui) pleaded that the votes for-his district should be made available/;as "soon as possible. ; The Hon. It. M'Kenzie: 'Two-thirds i of -the .. authorisations are 'already ■ spent/ , . ... Speaking, later, Mr. Jennings said he ; bad fought his battle for the ..starting ;of tho Stratford-Ongaruo lino at tho Ongaruo end, isr.d he had been beaten. :He had only now -to - ask-, that of the £10,000 available for road works bo- . 'tween Whan'gainbmoila I'-'afld Tongara-. -kau Gorge",-a fair share ... shoiikT bef made available for the rorthern portion, where settlers wero isolated eight 'months of. the year, and it* should not all be spent 'in the Tongarhkau Gorge. V; Mr. Glover.(Auckland'.Cehtral) ; the necessity for a , new. railway station , in' the Queen City of '.tho North. ; .Members: ' What'.is that? Various members hazarded shots at Whangarei ■ and. ■ Otahuhui vAilo Mr;- Glover pro-, ceede'd seriously to stress tho need of a'new.i station at, Auckland.. ■ ; Mr. T. E. Taylor (Ckristchurch North) dealt--■with figures: given' by Mr. F. Black in his. criticism of; the Government's reports, and maintained that Mr:, Black and ono' of his newspaper supporters had been guilty of -carelessly reading Mr. Birks's report. Generally, ho.was very glad indeed that this schemo- had been launched, and with caution ho believed there would bo ho financial, loss. . Mr; Jennings: . It's , a gamble, after all. • ■ Mr. Taylor then said . that ho believed that if tho/Hiitt'and Coleridgo ; estimates, .'were reasonably accurato m so far as; the''estimated, cost was concerned, then these schemes would bo a source of profit. :He urged .that the 'works should be carried out by day lr| ; JOUr. MINISTER IN REPLY. / The Hon. R. M'Kenzie,, in reply to some statements' that' had .been. mado regarding extra facilities at tho State Mines,, said they would not .stand all theso .extra expenses. Indeed, somo people seemed to bo making every, effort to, closo these ; mines up. In reference to a statement by Mr. Jennings that liis district had" not been fairly treated, lie , said that last year £381,000 had been spent on roads and bridges, and out of, that £72,379, had been spent ill the Taumaruuui district. ; The Hon. R. M'Kenzie went on to 6ay that £72,379 was spent in-tho Taumarunui electorate last year, ■ and £104,319 tho previous year. Tho member for Franklin ' complained, yet tho returns showed that during the past fivo years £38,467 had been spoilt on reads in his electorate. During last year £10,781 was spent on roads in tho electorate. As regards' tho East Coast railway ho said it would bo a year or two before it reached Motu. Ho had frequently ;dcnied a report to tho effect that it iwas not proposed to go past Motu. If tho vote for tho Stratford lino wero divided nono of tho sections would bo payablo until tho lino was finished. . ' Mr. Jennings: Wily aro you working at four points on tho Midland lino? ■ The Minister: Wo are working only at three points. (Laughter.) Replying later, tho Hon. R. M'Konzio said the lino was authorised from Ongaruo somo years ago., Ho thought , it would bo a great mistake to start tho East Coa-st lino.at-tho Wailii end , for a year or two. To start a .lino at two, three,' or four places delayed it reaching a profitablo point. Mr. Jennings: You aro working tho. ' Midland lino from four points. J ' Mr. M'Kcnzio said tho lino was bep ing prosecuted at three points, because it was necessary to cut tho Arthur i Pass tunnel. Incidentally, Mr. M.'Ken- . zio said there wero not very many ' settlers at Ongarue. .' "You don't know what you are talkl ing about," retorted Mr. Jennings.