FIVE MILLION LOAN.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 975, 16 November 1910, Page 7

FIVE MILLION LOAN.

—, -o PREMIER ATTACKS 'THE DOMINION' ANGRY. OUTBURST, WHY INFORMATION WAS KEPT BACK A TILT AT MR. HERDMAN. An opportunity to make a few corrections in connection with the details of allocation of the new fivo million . loan was availed of in the House of Representatives yesterday.by' the Prime Minister (Sir Joseph Ward) to level an ' angry attack on TrrE Dominion (and incidentally upon Mr. Herdman, M.P. for Wellington North) with reference to our article on Saturday, headed "Parliament Flouted/' in which attention was pointedly directed to the customary delay of Sir Joseph Ward in supplying details to Parliament as to the cost of raising loans for this country. Allocation of the Loan Moneys. Sir Joseph said that in the allocation of the loan as given by him in thV House on Friday evening, a sum of ; ■ £250,000 for lands for settlement pur-, po'ses was included. He had also given the amount of the item "Naval defence - loah" a's £1,000,000, which he also : i wished to correct. The. proper alloca-.-. tion of the loan was: Loans for settlers, etc :. £1,500,000' Advances to workers £500,000 Naval defence 10an..." £1,250,000. Public Works and Land Settlement £1,750,000; , Total -...-£5,000,000* ■ He went on to state that when he 1 . spoke on tho matter on Friday even-! ing, he had not the Treasury papers! at hand because he did not anticipate j that it would come up. It was, he j. j might say, originally intended to in- 1 3 elude £250,000 for lands for settlement.-j j This money was now to be raised in r another manner.' He might add that! , ho had cabled the High Commissioner: " complaining with reference to the pre- 1 mature leakage of information from; London. Such, he explained, had oc-, curred on a former occasion. The High: - Commissioner had now cabled him as. i under: . - f "in answer to your telegram 5 November 14 regret leakage, quite ; * unavoidable with 'underwriting.' Had hoped no statement re Veto 3 Conference until Tuesday which t would have suited splendidly.. .- ' Must now make best of, but extremely fortunate underwriting . done before Veto amendment and Birkbeck trouble." i He (Sir Joseph) had not wanted anything; to como put from this end. His reason 1 was this: Having authorised the raising of a five-million loan at £98 10s., he knew it would como out on tho market either on Saturday or, Monday. The.; J arrival of the information here on' Fri- ; day made it necessary to see that care should bo taken as to what might appear in the press at Home. He had L hoped to bo able to have waited till; ' Tuesday before making any statement.''; Attach on Mr. Hordman. Sir Joseph went, on to say that in connection with the loan he would like; to refer to the extraordinary commentsi, made.by The Dominion'on the discus-"'. .. siori,winch took place ; ,in tho House! j of' Representatives on "Friday, night.! 3 Tho remarks to which he was alluding j j wero either written or dictated by a J a member of this House. ; Mr. Massey: .Will you name the' 1 l. member? ( • j , Sir Joseph: I refer to Mr. Herdman,,' - member for Wellington North. 1 Mr. Herdman (smiling):. You are. i. quite misinformed. Sir Joseph: Well, I believe that you' 1 either dictated the articlo or that it was written from notes given you. ■ Mr. Herdman: What- authority have . you for making such a statement?. ' Sir Joseph: Do you deny it? Mr. Herdman: 1 do. ■'_. \ Sir Joseph: I know your writing so, well that I am not likely to make a' ; mistake. , . , Proceeding, Sir Joseph said that he, r thought the articlo was one of those I i grossly unfair things 'that were donei i that went to mar the public life of a■' - young country. It had to uo borne in; mind that on Friday night he was not in a position to discuss this matter.; The article contained most extraordin- j ary statements—statements of an ex-! treniely vicious character. It was on-! the lines of what frequently happened. |. : 5 He was stating those remarks calmly; because he had his duty to perform in'' connection with tho flotation of the loan. 'The loan was possibly the largest ono'which had been placed on the market on behalf of the Dominion at any, time.-- He accepted the full responsibil-" ' - ity for' putting it on the market for ] - that amount, and would have bad to:. 1 accept the consequences if it had not'' > proved satisfactory. As it was, the 1 result must be regarded as .very .satisfactory. The leakage in ' London to . ' which he referred was, it appeared, due to the fact that underwriting was taking place. The number of people affected made it more difficult to prevent the information leaking out , premd--3 turely. That would explain why it was'. - of supremo importance that nothing - should bo said in the meantime. "Absolutely Without Foundation." Mr. Herdman said that he did' not know whether he should give tho Prime Minister any. satisfaction about this. i matter. Sir Joseph had 'been misine formed. Tho statement was absolutely. r without foundation. In newspaper mattors tho Prime Minister was behind the times (Laughter) as ho was in many other things. Ho had read the article,inThe Dominion, and it seemed'to him-to. be a perfectly fair straightforward 1 statement of the position. If the Prime Minister's finance was of so delicate a nature that it would not stand, honestcriticism it must be bad. . (Hear, hear.) Tho statement made by the Prime 3 Minister was not in accordance with 6' fact. It was untrue. ■ t A member: You can't go that far.' B Mr. Speaker: It must be withdrawn., Sir Joseph: Is it withdrawn? Mr. Herdman: Well, I will say it is incorrect. Aro you satisfied now? .. r The Prime Minister (looking towards .:. i Mr. Herdman) then said: I will read out one or two of your paragraphs. Mr. Herdman (to the Prime Minister):. I presume that you will accept my denial. If not, outside- tho House.. I can characterise your statement in the way it ought to bo characterised: The Prime Minister: I am bound to" accept his statement. But I will read. ~ from tho article in order that anyone ', may judge as to whether it can be' called fair criticism. ;; Sir Joseph then read tho following leading . nrticle which, appeared in . The Dominion on Saturday morning:— Parliament Flouted. The contempt in which the Prime Min. ister : hohls Parliament has perhaps never been more forcibly exemplified than. in. . tho House of Kepresenlatives last event ing. A cablegram published in the newspapers yesterday stated that a loan ol " five million pounds—the largest loan, ws a believe, ever put on the London market bv this country—had been issued, and. '» the Lender of the Opposition naturallj : . asked Sir Joseph Ward .if he could Rivf '- the House any information concernms it 0 The replv bo received was en insult tc J the intelligence of Parliament, and n J slight on-the whole country. Sir Joseph < -v Ward refused point blank'■ to pro any I'jaipxmatioa whatever on the subject, and

w. .he professed to be astonished that any- ;'.':.' ,one should-sepk such: information. This '.>-;. of course was: nothing'but tho flimsiest ; :.. muff—bluff which-could deceive'.no one •;.'•;- ibut the most ignorant , It. was, indeed; |.i•..-■•■';.; ■[completely exposed as such'by the (lis- ;• y . ..'closures'which ho' himself mado concerni;:;/.- ; ing tho loan later in,the ereniiij. Bui ?,'■ •■;/•.■ ij'Ji'o'desired; at-the moment to convey the i-,' ' ;.'impression that' something was boins <;■ y, Tasked for likely to, prejudice the (lotafv.,; .-'-. jtion of the loan, Hoping thereby to sii';:;■ -lenco his questioners. All that:was reallj s.O:•■'; . Tasked was that tho country should be told '■; ; 'Whether it was correct that" the' loan was i .';:•■: ."--.being floated, and what it was for. (OppoJ :- ; Jfeition hear, hears.) It is truly amaziup j':.:■-.-,' /.that'the Prime Minister should 'th'inli j ;..■ .-himself privileged to keep- such, infonna- .-' ■■'■' tion.from tho people, whoso credit is ;■■ -.'■;'..'. ;being pledged, especially in view of tht ;-.,-': /fact that tho information must already'le '■ '-.-/■';•'. 'in'circulation in London. But it is still i ,,; ;hicro amazing • that Parliament should i->'. --tamely submit to such contemptuous :'"'.■'''■' £ treatment. .'Sir Joseph Ward adopts the ;... .attitude that lie, and he .alone,; is en- ,.;.';: ;titledto know anything at all about the s ;/,/ : Ireal inwardness of tho .finances of tht '. '.''-Dominion, and he surrounds those loan j.'-V' .transactions with l an amount of-mystery i ■""..'.-': that is bound to set tongues- wagging, r. ,: ; ;(Hear, hears.) {■'■".!■ /':, To-properly realise tho utter uselessI.' .;". -faess of tho Government party as a check r~ ; . .on -even the most extravagant behaviour [■:,■''■■ .-'of..Ministers, we would-commend to the !. ;. .attention' of our readers the votes cast or ;-.;.,. ;two motions moved last evening by Mr, ■James Allen, and Mr.'fjerdman.. ; The for- ..' -_:mcr brought . forward a. proposal' that : tho Government'should ..within, twelve ..;: ./;months; after ;the flotation of 'any loan ', V; lay the particulars before Parliament. '..•',: (Hear, hears.)' This was negatived by it 'l ■•; : ':' :; yotes to'. 27. Mr. Herdman then moved ■ ': ,to provide that such information should ;be laid before Parliament within two -, , years. Our readers may find it difficult ' ■;■':' ;.to credit, the fact, but again the Govf-,- 'ernmerit. majority.,'voted solidly to pre- ,'■;'; .vent Ministers being'compelled to disclost ■■:.._';■: ,to the public the details.-of loan trans..'../'actions even within two years 1 of then Why this extreme anxiety : -!to..cover up these transactions? During '~,:'the' whole of its existence up to 1901 the ■'.'. public debt of the country totalled tc "■.;- only :In the ten vearsisince ;.'-.'■'■ that date-over, .£30.000.000 has been added to that debt. Including ' the". £5,000,Uf1( '•:■ now' being raisod the nublic debt amount: ."■';' ; -.to. over ,£80,000,000. Yet; the Prime Min- ;-,' lister'refuses,,,to disclose details of past Jean transactions, which other Govern- '. ments have always given, and uses his subservient majority to block any posEibilit.v' of ..his being compelled to' disclose the information within a period oi • two years. (Hear, hears.): Particulars oi .'■loan transactions four years old have not ■-.-'■ ' yet been ■ ma'de public.' (Further hear, -hoars.) Has the country such unbounded confidence in this: so-called wizard' of fi- ■-;•■ nance that it not only gives . him these ..- /huge borrowing, powers, but is .willing tc "'' permit him to keep- secret so long as '-'*'.- pleases'him the details of the loan-rais- ,;.-.: ing transactions?., Has it-any.: confidence at all in;men who; not only permit, the head .of . the Government..'to do, these '.:■■ things, but actively, support, him in da- .-. leating. a proposal.-'to' compel: v oublicitj -.:-,'■ •'■ ;hftcr';the lapse of ■a: reasonable" period' .We would commend.to the attention oi .the electors in,-this district those mom- ; , hers who voted .with' tho. Government tc prevent-.proper publicity .'being given tc ;.":.-,. : -■' the ./details,, of ..these Uoan transactions. /,Their conduct should-"not be overlooked ■■' ,-. ;■" ;next. year, Varid wo 1 shall take/good care ; that, it .'is not. ■' . - .. ' ' "It- is very Unfortunate, for ,these' mem- .; -: bjrs that their timid leader was unable to-:see the, sitting through .without the ; •..;'. customary, somersault. (Opposition laugh- ■■■ tar.)' -Later in the"evening,'fearing nc '.'-.' doubt'the-consequences of-his ,ooen dos fiance of tho, country—for. Parliament it- ■_'. self, owing to the.subservience of his fol- ;; lowing, he; cares''little—he.-withdrew in '/part;, from his', outrageous /attitude,'- and ' /deigned,- to disclosera. portion! of -the -in- :;■'»■ formation which .previously he had pro- ■: fessed: to regard-it as improper-, to make '/'public His -~for ..this sudden /,'■' change of- :nof earlier in the" day ithe. information asked ■' ■;;iior-:.,'Possibly'the'P'rimeVMihister did. ob- ,-; ' tairi fuller information later','but does he ;. • .'..iph the conntry to believe that-he floats .:: five-million loans Without '■ knowing the , condition of flotation? We do not think : : Ward, would;ve'n : •■.-•' , .pre to,.say th'a't'.ne authorised. tho:'rars'./Jifg of a five-million loan without know- ..-■■; Mg the terms.of flotation. The'truth is of course, as w'e.'have, pointed out be '.:' fore,' that tho Government act as thougl .-they regarded.' the- .iffair's. of ,the county ;-.ns their own private concern. Their obedient majority'permits them to do prac-.-toUy as they, please-thev keep back oi '.: '«ive information as it suits them; they ,- ■■vß"Ut.'jParliament,:-..override.-- protests' by ..-■ sheer weight of numbers, and go nlung//..ing on recklessly../ Jet underlying all 'M< ■ .bounce-and Wuster is a eleep and a grow- . "jing fear. They, realise that while theT «"• -1- ?? - f,I «3V please. with Parliament. ... .their hold on the country has slackened ■■■ <l n I s „!," a . lce!i "iE ; every .day, (Hear, • hears.) Their .constant changes of froni ''"■?' aT t. ?» e .to. theii^desperate efforts to re./,;?aih their holel on the public. Lackirie ' M^S a - ?e ' ; in v Riding principles" .. .Jacking in all that makes for.|ood goverm ■ tUey ? r ° U P * rlcord'of iS- - competenccinconsistency, and recklessness evc "t" all .v, damn them in the ~ ;«es of the .whole country. (Vigorous : pear, hears from Opposition members.)." : ?» 'IF? I°V a y i]iat you'did notconS'iTl? *'!? "cation of tliis article?" '■■ »® r i■ J W l l °{ Mr ' ; Herdman ■ '"tid™" '-'--. ;fiu '. s^ d ■ s? a'^?e':.tlio,ar- ,. :._ Sir;■ Joseph: I have to accept ■it Herdma/ and ;; "Like a Red Rag to a Bull." ... Sir Joseph said: Here is ; tho authorised Opposition organ. - p?i Laurenson: Who takes any notice Sir Joseph:: No one does.. ' . Here, there was'a hearty outburst ,o'i laughter at the expense of the Premier A member: It is like a red rag to : bull., (Further; laughter.)- .. , . . .Sir Joseph (proceeding) said that' ne one took any notice of The Dominion : . .so-far as its reliability was concerned It had, .he continued, done mpro in lury to its own. owners than anythint done on the Government side, or by the ; most Radical members in the House In fact -it had donomoro than any ■ i ng ' m s . 6 to hel P its Political oppon ents. Iho few in whoso interest it wa' run had dono much'to the detriment o , those they supported. '"Mr. T. EJ I'aylor: You are giving ii Bdded importance. '.Sir Joseph went" on' to say that hi : had never inspired an'article in the ... ,JNow; Zealand Times!'/.or any' bthei •npwspaper. He had never asked am paper to -write an article. ' Tliis wa'' position ho held, and intended te hold. '.'This," he added,- "was what was written' in connection with an inv '. portant• loan. If;those who adoptee Such, methods thought it was right nnd that they, should bo applauded m. ey wero .- welramo to their opinion _rheso tactics, in his opinion',' wero not wise. He did not care in tho slightest : what- Tiie Dominion said about himself, either directly or indirectly. Until the arrival of tho cable from the High Commissioner on Friday night he was prevented from'speaking.'; • Remarks by Mr. Massey. . ' 'Mr. Massey said ho only.-rose .to asli a question, but ho would preface'his question 'by stating that ho thoughi Tue Dominion should placo the Premier on its free list for life for the splendid advertisement ho had civen the paper Sir Joseph: I would decline to take it; '".. ,'; ' . 'Mr. < Massey then remarked that he really got up to ask if thoPremiei would lay on the table this session tht prospectus of .the loan.' Ho thought il was a .fair 'thing to ask. The' Premier: I should be glad to ele ; so, but that is impossible, as the pros pectus won't reach here beforo'tho nor 'Bail to leave-London. I Mr. Massey: Have you not a copy ? .'Sir. Joseph: No, tho prospectus i: : always issued at the other end. I wil -fay it.on. the table next session. ;. Mr. Massey:. Havo yoii any objectioi :to stating, what: is the rate for under i writing? .. Sir Joseph: The rate is 1 per cent, which is the ordinary rate.