THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 958, 27 October 1910, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

A NEW BILL When, the House resumed its sittings yesterday, '■ The Scenery ' Preservation Amendment Bill was introduced and read a first time. COMMERCIAL TRUSTS BILL. PASSED BY THE HOUSE. The Prime Minister moved the • third reading of . the Commercial Trusts Bill. Mr. HERRIES (Taurauga) pointed out that if the.Bill effected its object it-would be. the most important measure brought down this.session. v - . The PRIME MINISTER, in the course of his : reply, referred to the rumour that ; various outside combinations - had secured a big interest in certain shipping companies doing business with New Zealand. He said that the New Zealand Shipping Company was not affected by the operations of outside combinations.- New Zealand was happily not dependent upon any ono line to carry her products. The Bill was then read a third timo and passed. TWO OTHER BILLS PASSED. Without discussion, the Sccret Commissions Bill and the Post and Telegraph Amendment Bill were put through their final stages. NEW TAXING PROPOSALS. ARE THEY JUSTIFIED? * DRASTIC CRITICISM. Upon the; proposal- that the amendments to the land Tax and Income Tax Bill bo agreed to,- 1 Mr.. MASSEY' said ' that he believed thoroughly in the principle of graduated income tax. He was, however, dead against the'.present Bill. Last year the taxation was increased by over .£350,000. Since. that time the' finances had very considerably improved. In spite of the large surplus at the end of the year the Primo Minister now proposed further heavy taxation. Brice said "that if at the end of a year a substantial- surplus appears, the taxation for the next year should bo reduced in proportion, so long as the expenditure remains the same." There should, he'thought, be a readjustment all r.ound in connection with the system of taxation; under which just sufficient money would' be raised for the requirements of tho country. He went on to say that the surtax imposed last year should have been taken away when it was found that.there was a big surplus at the end of the year. It was also his opinion that the penal clauses of the graduated tax should not apply in the case of lands held by different institutions for the purposes of their business. His vote would be recorded against -the Bill. ' ' The PRIME MINISTER said that extra taxation had been found necessary in connection with the gift of the Dreadnought and the reorganisation of the internal defences. The. increased liability under every head was .£330,000 per annum. If an amendment which was proposed on the'previous evening had been carried, it would havo meant that people earning £700 per annum and upwards would not have been called upon to contribute their fair share towards defence, Brice, whom Mr. Massey had quoted, was just about as old as Adam. In New Zealand ; a system ' had been adopted which was unknown in. Brice's day. This was a proposal to avoid borrowing. In view of the fact that they wanted money for their districts, ho was surprised that members of the Opposition should have voted against the Bill. "Talking Rubbish." Mr. Allen: You are talking rubbish. Sir Joseph: We have an instance in the case oft Mr.- Dive, who only the . other ; day wanted a vote for a railway m his district. . , „ Mr. Dive: We offered to find the money. Sir Joseph: But we have not the authority to take it.Mr.: Allen:-It is the dog-in-the-manger policy. ... . The Prime Minister went on to, say that in 1908 the remissions of taxation amounted to per annum. , Mr. Massey: Give, the House the increases as well. , ~ , , i Continuing, Sir Joseph said that he had not' heard of any. person with an income of .£7OO or over who was complaining of having to pay a little extra towards the cost of defence. What did the surtax amoujit to? It was only .£50,000, which was spread over tho whole of the people. The increase under the Bill could not be passed on to the consumer because it was too small. - As rej gards the proposal by Mr. Massey that certain institutions should not be subject to the penal clauses of the graduated tax, the only remedy would be farreaching amendments to the law. llie Government had endeavoured to meet the position fairly. With' reference to Public Works, there would be the loan of Jd,750,000, and, in addition, nearly a million more would also bo spent in tho same direction this year. Theorising such as Mr. Massey had indulged in would not help the people in the _ backblocks. He expected to find that his new taxing proposals would have been adopted without dissent. . Mr. Taylor Moves an Amendment. On the motion for the third reading T. E. TAYLOR (Chrietchurch North) moved an amendment as follows: [—"In view of the fact that large-eusglus

revenues are known to be, accumulating this year, proving that the Dominion's finances are in a very buoyant condition, and that the people have the inherent right to dispose of their earnings at their discretion, after paying such taxation as is proved to be equitable and essentially necessary to cover tho cost of government, the proposed scale of income taxes deliberately exempts incomes over ■£2000 from any increase in the graduated . tax, and, further, that the known surplus revenues accumulating justify the reduction in taxation rather than increase of some ,£IOO, a year as proposed in this Bill. This House, whilst approving of , the principles of the graduated income tax, is of the opinion that the Bill 6hould be read a third time this day 6ix months.". It was his view that the Prime Minister had not proved his case that the .money was neoded. If the local bodies indulged in financial met hod a similar to those of th<! Government with, regard to . the rates which it collected there would be a revolution very quickly 60 far as the ratepayers were concerned., With reference to public works, the Government should provide proper ■ estimates as was done by local bodies. He strongly opposed the transfer of money .from the Consolidated Fund to the Public Works Fund. Such a transfer' meant a severe tax on people with large families. If .£750,000 were transferred, it was equivalent to 155.. per family. When money was spent on public works, it should be accompanied by a betterment tax, A Pertinent Inquiry. He was astonished to learn from' the Prime ■ Minister that, Public' Works Department would be assisted. to the extent of .£1,000,000 this year. Where had the money come from ? He could not see much in the boast that there were remissions to the extent of ,£600,000 in 1908. The people were, entitled _ to the remissions. In view of the improved state of the finances the recent increases to the railway fares, etc., should he taken off.,. ■■ Mr. WEIGHT (Wellington South), who seconded the amendment, said the extra money was to be raised next year was election year arid the money was wanted t) spend in some of the electorates that were likely to go against the Prime Minister. (Laughter and cries of ."No".) . ..v Sir Joseph Ward: This is not election year'. " . Mr. Wright: No, but the money will be available for election .year. The speaker went on to say he was in favour of a graduated income tax. There should be some reason given, however, why_ the tax was required. The Prime Minister had not shown what he wanted the money for or that it was needed at all. The Amendment Poorly ; Supported. On a division- Mr. Taylor's amendment was lost by 53 to 12. , ' The supporters of the amendment were Messrs. Dive, J. Duncan, Herdman, Hine, Lang, Massey, Newman, Okey, , Pearce, T. E. Taylor, G. :M. Thomson, and Wright. . Mr. MASSEY said he supported; the amendment moved by Mr. Taylor and it was rarely he. was so closely in agreement with his views. The value of:land had-gone up during' the last 10 years, but it was because there had been - tremendous demands in - the Old. Country for all the products we turned out. In piling; up taxation in this way we were very foolish. He'could hardly help believing but that the position was as Mr. Wright had suggested, viz., that the money was wanted to spend in works just before the general election. No law on eartlv said Mr. Massey, would prevent the; big concerns taxed from handing that, taxation ~on to the - consumer. Mr. .Poole: Competition will rrevent that. , . •' Continuing, Mr. Massey . said two statements made by. the Prime Minister did liot fit' in., Sir .Joseph Ward had said the money was'to be used for defence I purposes, and at another stage that it was to, be used for public works. The Prime Minister should be more careful in his statements. Now that the finances of the'country were buoyant and revenue was increasing it would be a graceful act on the part'of the Government to reduce the. railway fares,, particularly. second : class fares which had been increased last year , out of all pro r portion. :' ,- - • "A Very Imperfrct Bill." Sir W. J. STEWARD (Waitaki) said that although he had supported the Bill in all its stages he still looked' upon. it as a, very imperfect Bill. The graduations should not, for instance, 6top short at .£2OOO. There were a number of other defects which he hoped .would be remodieil in'the next Taxation Bill. Mr. HERDMAN • (Wellington North) said that every member who opposed the amendment of the member for Christchurch North affirmed the principle that greater taxation-was needed.' They voted on favour of imposing heavier burdens on the shoulders of the people. No valid reason had been. shown why this additional taxation was needed. 'The people were already groaning under the burden of taxation. The money it was proposed to raise by this increased taxation would .probably be wasted. Some substantial and sound reason should be advanced before members should be asked to vote in favour of the proposals. The position in regard to expenditure of. public money was becoming alarming, and the House and the , people appeared to take no notice, but there would be a day of reckoning. In four years the expenses of managing the Departments of State had increased by .£1,300,000.- Ho could 6ee no reason for the increase, and the only conclusion he - could coino to was that there had been wholesale waste in connection with the Departments. ' "Would be Absolutely Wasted." * Mr. HOGG (Masterton) said he had supported the Bill throughout because it was absolutely necessary 'to ' maintain sound finance in Nwi Zealand, although he believed that much.of,the money to be spent on defence would .be absolutely, wasted. . Mr. FRASER (Wakatipu) 6aid that he did not think that the extra revenue would be needed this year. The House should have insisted.that tho new imoney was properly earmarked. If it wero not required for defence, it would go into the common fund. Mr. RUSSELL (Avon) said that it was a matter for, regret that when the Bill was introduced the Prime Minister did not give a statement showing the financial position of • the Dominion and the financial requirements. Mr.' • HERRIES (Tauranga) said that tho Bill was friinkly a Bill to secure further moneys to'swell .the already gorged surplus. , ■ The PREMIER, in reply, said that the money was required ■ for, defence, aid that it-wits intended to make a substantial transfer from the Consolidated Fund to the Public Works Fund. In nineteen years over seven millions had bien so transferred, and tho whole amount had been expended. The interest, on that amount would be ,£241,000 per annum. Under this system more money was saved to the country than if the: money, had been raised by loan. Except what was proposed for defence purposes, the only increase in taxation that had been made for a number, of > years nas tha. extra graduated land tax of 25 per cent, in 1907. The Prime Minister went ,on to refer to what he termed the apparently deliberate misrepresentation of Mr. Herdman, who said that in four years the expenditure had increased by one million some hundred thousands. Mr. Herdman did not say that tho revenue had gone up more than the expenditure. Mr. Herdman: "What has that got to do with it P" Sir Joseph: "The hon. gentleman should study political economy. Mr. Herdman:."l have sufficient for the present to study l the Prime Minister." Continuing, Sir Joseph Ward said'there had been an increase in the railway lines and in the number of employees, and the purchase of the Manawatu railway line had been included in the amount. If tho amendment proposed by Mr. Taylor had been carried it would have been impossible to collect any income tax this year. In this country wo gave as large a remission as any other country in the world before taxation is opposed. Mr. Witty: "Why don't you keep on with tho graduations upward ?'- Sir Joseph: There is a limit to everything. He did not believo in a confiscation tax. Tho Bill was read , a third time and passed, CONTAGIOUS DISEASES. The PEIME MINISTER, in moving the third reading of the Contagious Diseases Act Repeal liill, said ho thought a great deal of good would be done in removing an' Act which gave great offence to the ■women of tke.ccumtffi,.

Mr. JAS. ALLEN (Bruce) urged the need of legislation to replace this Bill and to deal with a crying evil, which must bo dealt with. He had hoped that legislation would be introduced this session, although he was not certain ■ that legislation- could deal effectively with the matter. Mr. HANAN (Invercargill) urged that a select committee of the House should be set up to consider this matter. , Dr. RANGIHIROA supported the suggestion of Mr. Ilanan, and went on to refer to the harm done by. certain contagious diseasos. The falling birth-rate of tho Maori was due to contagious dis-. eases introduced into the country by the'' early European whalers and 6oldiers. Those contagious diseases, he averred, affected the innocent as well as the guilty. There was an absolute danger to the community in fallowing these diseases to go on unchecked. .The.Act which it was proposed to repeal had been a genuine attempt'to do away with a great social evil, and the House should not consider it had done' its duty in simply repealing the Bill, He hoped tho I'rimo Minister would, as promised, do something next year. He was only sorry it could not be done this year. The PRIME MINISTER-said he pro ; posed to ask tho House to set up a select committee to inquire into the question next session. Ho thought it should be a joint committee ' of- both Houses. He recognised the importance of the natter, and thought it should be considered by a select; committee early next session. . The Bill was read a third time and passed. The House adjourned at: 0.55 a.m. .v