THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 953, 21 October 1910, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

CONTROL OF INSURANCE. ;, SHOUIB BE ESTAB- .' ; p .>{:;.■ ; w iISHED?,.. :.,,. •. , VAmong the petition's' 'dealt ■ With by the Houso of Representatives yesterday was that of A. A. Larsen and W. T. Larsen, of. Wnnganui;- who 'praycd'-for legislation affording protection and relief from the methods of the Colonial: Mutual Life Sd.- : ciety.'.Ltd./and in regard to which the Public Accounts Committeoreported ;that it had no recommendation .to make. : ''. . Mr. ;HOGAN (Waßganui) moved as an .emondment thnt the roport be again referred bpok to the Committee. He' saiil that tho petitioner could not got from the' company .a' statement as to the sur- , render.valne of.his policy. Three years ;ago-petitioner was oifored ,£l37' as the surrender, to-day. •■ Ho had since paid .£66. more in:^premiums.' The amount .which the company-then' offered him was .only-,£101.. ;. The oompany. now said-that . the figure quoted* three years < ago was a mistake. . His object in moving the. 'amendment /was" that : tlie'-.' Committee should- de'lay its report until the :peti-' tioner was'given a statement by the,company as to Mβ position.'to-day. /;' Further'lnquiry/Wanted. . ' . .. GOLVIN,' (Buller) ■ ■seconded■'.. the 'amendment. . He said. that., a constituent inlhis district wished 'an.inquiry into.the way:'ini.which.;the : company was'conduct-; ing. its-business. ' ■'/; took out what;.he' thought-, wag. an.' endowment policy,nnder,.the',tontine system for fif-. .. He,:fomid ;later that it was, a life policy : that:.had.been 'issued, to him.; When.'he died at the eud of twentyfour, years he had paid in £W, !and the company;.offered his: successors, i>262,;.plus .£3o,.which he. had ; received, in full eatis-factionof:-the.; claim".-. If this' company 'was trying, .tojsvfindle the .people, the Government should-step:in.' , . -•:.*;: :-. '■.:. ■.-;,. ■■'^Mr^Bussell•; JBut:;he■ .'was insured / all ,tiui'- : jame.'\.ri-''',!-y'.>,-:-- -,\ ' '■'■.:■'■'■•.■■■ ;. .' . ;-.■■■

: (^lvinyinsnTeavto,:lo3e ; £iil :: ai the end of twentyrfour years.' .'. ", Mr.-.,-FOEB_S:;: (Huruniii).''.urged .rthat. there.6hould be .St^te. supervision, as was-the--'case: i|in;' Amefic'al'TTh'en'i.'again',;' 'a company. should; be-"; compelled to make good thff representations of its'agents. ■. ;,,:Mr..,;WILFpRI) .(Hutt)-;' claimed (that; .members 'should, .suspend' judgment: until they'.heard:the other Bide;-New &aland did.-not'-..want- State, supervision V"of the, Hnd.ihat. was .in .vogue .in 'America: .No :comr^ny:.could'db r :bnsinejss;if;:it were to ■ Ve:'mode"':i«spo^bWyf6r;'isliie'mients. ; inade' by-agerits.'' : ln' : regard 'to-the it. had .to: fc, remembered, ,wi^chhe''paid'.rn:to:''.the'oompanj ; .-'was in 1 . the-nature of lpading;". If; the'matter, was back -.nothing'..:could/,, be: done, ;against the' company; ■■':''■'■l'-X/ , ':-. : ■ '. ■ r.'-' % Mr:. be ped; doing' bnsines^. : '-'i:'" '.■.:■ : ,i ■'..■ -''.'.- V-. ;:■• Mr. Wufpid TThat: is'iriot; so" under: the -' : : j'-.'.--Mi' tx ■. .•';■.'■'. '■■'•■ '■■ Only; Safe : ModV^ftlhsui ; arite^'. ! ■'- ~'- : -'C;:

; ■■ *.; ■ T-^E- B North).-said <that.jt.wasVno use Mr., Wil-ford-eayingl that::itswas'?the; agents , : want ; of! honesty which resulteil •m- people i maW'ing. investments ;which .'vj'Vre not: reilisedl; .He'; knew- >pf ■', a 'case;where ,a; woman- was :grossly;,}f ..not.deliberately deceived.. His reading rwent, that.: the' :,whble lifepqlioy■ .without■ profits.*as'■ the-only policy.;, from;/w.hipb.'< the. - element oj 'gambling ~ the 'e'stab- 1 lishnieiit. .of i an Vboard , , which , , :WouM'.^yei.fieVright. : to'-.'reJ€ct'.any' kind of,- table .Iwhich'ididv-riot' -represent'.; a'iper-.'. ■inyestinent.'^.''These''fancy poUw^Vi^^irM^-:' , '-^^''.'-'"^? , -' 1 ! 118 * 1 - about .'as; heal thy';'a'ji.!pun'" i cakes: -in the-' '.':!" i.v Vv: ; ■••• - : - ,:'..Mr;;;C. ; ; (Auckland:; West) ; suggestedi;that ; .;the \]\ time:v\ras>ripeV • -for■ .some system l ■ of-..Stew supervision bf.the, insurant* -instititioris V. operating •; in':' . New, , 3 UpG. :saiir;«iat.the T;(»mmttee.:;'had'igone'.'.c^fefully,'into;! ithe: : asp^tXupT;3tfie ; ;;. question.; iHe : read, a ;staTemcrit;by':'Mrl" ; Ji,; Eicha'r.d-; son;jthat7byy;;bne;b.ffice : in : ■vras'^doiiigAany..-bTisiness; on:.tlie,; tontine : .system;: ■ There. : was room-■fOTi.ftirtHer;in-:qnirics'.in-ithb;matteT^;-;{,v^:i-S: .'■•;• ■■ :■'; Mr. : :-Poplet:'.-;.There:i is; a lot; of; bad. fruit. id ; -V'picked-^et^^T;4!:; i SijY.,,Ki)^j; : i-:- ; V;i ;: 'Mγ;, Bussell: contJOTe^v'tlratiiaiithorbugh , . .examination'.of: the ;.whple* questiPn'.bfr. life. ;insurance .-was; largejenpuglivtb keep;.the' PablipVAccounts:: Coniniittee: tbusy •, for, : in6re.'; s than'. onejs'essiqni'.■ :;^ v ';;..,'v'.'■.'„■ /.^;\;,: Royal; Cojnmissiori: -Suggested/; T A; ; ; 'S: Gpyernment. during.;:the : : r'eoessv to :■.','. apV ipbint-'.a Boyal'. Commission; of i .-two.. or. ; ;three;'members,'including.a leading mag-; istrate ..to;-go,:all. through': , New ,, Zealand; cbllecting: eyidencei ,; .,Theii /■ this, .'evidence, : ■next .session;-; shonld ;be\the ; basi6 of neces-: sa'ry {legislation;' : :-; '' y --O K - ' ';V : .': ■ -.v-'-'. "'■; S. -A ;;M£;FIELD; (Ofeiki); ; held : .that.sending the' ?rep'art ; bapKito s 'theVCominittee ;would be' raerely: "prolonging'-the'agony. , '.He .believod:,that.;'soirie'.,unscrupulous .agents had been at work, i but, did not think that, -the if could 'be: .blamed.; Cases.'-had:.been'"tried,:-and:.the fact that stood'out was. the,'gullibility.of'the ptiln lie.V He admitted-that-.'he - -hadibeeh:"one' of, the.fools"-misled terms': of ;a policy:;: v- : '■ ':. ';>;; -'•■ ,r v :!v^; ;: . : '. : \ -Hi'' '.'i '- : ■ ■■'■' :V.' vi,Theyamendment'•■; ! : tp : irefer the.;petition' ■ ;;;;;;,;. i;'.?;^Bi'LLS;FRbM;THEV;Co!uNCIL.'A / -The,New ■>. Zealand. ■:- i Pqrtrand'.'-.,Cembnt. Company'(£M.) Reclamation , and Empow-'. Bering Bill' was received'frornVthe'Legisla-; tiye: Cpunqil ■'.-. wHh one .'slight.. amendment.; On'the.;mbtion't-bfHhe Prime.-Minister the amendment .was agreed.'to.:.;- ; ':'.; ' '■■' ;;■ i- : '•> The... Judicature.' Amendment-Bill, • which' .originated : in,; the'^Councili:'.was , received, ; a;:first;\timei ; ;:';''-;;;i j ■;,■.-;;;.>;>;: :. .The..Council- also;rehirned':the; Native Townships Bill :withont!amendmeiit. '■■ .',;'- xommerciAlt-rustsbill; effective'?";;;.;;; ; .MONOPOiIES.';; .'•■.lff moving; that the^Commercial.Trusts .'Bill''be:committed.' ■■'.;.:.'■'';,';■;,. •)■:,'•'■''.[: '■' The■;-P.EIME ; 'MINISTEB:■ said-.the. 1 Bill was' l Vapply-.:only.'"to , "the-, ar■tioleai; enumerated' in' theiecnedule...' While ■"allotring fair; competition, ;the -Bill; was calculated to the exploitation of the public -.There, was'.evidence; that-an outside organisation; that, dealt.' in; oils was-.'using : methods.!that.' prevented .any other person. dealing -in , ; ; that ;< article .in. Nbw,. Zealand. ";;:The:Priine:-Minister', read a'memorandum.which-was'lto' be filled'.in and.returnedto^ kerosene"'wa's':purohasedj.'and which stated that;the'signatory had -not bought or sold any imported .kerosene:.during ,tha; pro-. vious 7 sis ,; months, except',a" stated, brand of oil., ,'■" Tlie Prime Minister also read a memorandum in , which;had to be stated the amount :pf. kerpsene soldJor expert, and'a'declaration that all sales .had , been, at the : market-iprice, ;•' making ..allowance for-discount for "caah'i;: delivery,.'etc. , The result•of ; ;theseoirc.ulars 'was':that no person'.whoinigUt import 'wholesale into , this country,, epuld trade , ; .within; these;, periods he; -had'.'meßtdonedi.'i'.vHe''.;was informed that another;.large company jvas,prepared to' come' ihto'ithis and compete in kerosenej-; but. this 'system ■ it. It was 'prepared .to. come"in whenever the law.allowed it to. carry, on its business. '; It was important :W.;6hould.havecompetition in'aense,'of. tbiskind, and hence /the Billi made, if an"'offence -to; 'attempt; to secureV exclusive, pustom;. in the, "articlesi mentioned -in the 'schedule. Meat Industry Should Be Protected." : }■ ■■'■'■Mr: .BUCHANAN ; (Rfairarapa) referred to. the'export 'and-distribution of meat. Happily the industry had not so ; far been tho subject .'of-, interference. More, than once, , however, hnd agents of meat trusts visited,-New'Zealand. It was known that the Trusts had, the freezing works at. La Plata under 'their control. Evidently the Trust trying' to'repeat these operations in "Australia. . He thought that the non-inclusion, of shipping, rates, in, the schedule was a mistake. The Freight Eeduction . Committee, of which' he was a member,'had been : the means of saving exporters ..in . Now' Zealand thousands of pounds. It rumoured that an organisation which ihad pnrcbased half a share in a company doing business with New Zealand belonged to a Trust. He would like- the Premier to toll the House how •far he believed :the Bill -.would operate outside New Zealand. If the Bill was to be effective it would nave to be closely scrutinised in Committee. ■..■:■'■'. . Mr. OKEY (Tafanaki) said that there would be great difficulty in attracting outside capital- if,the profits .were to be aindnly restricted, ■.■;; • ■ .

Mr. POOLE (Auckland West) thought that tho Bill should.be hailed with delight. The Monopolies Prevention Bill was too .narrow in its. objects.. Some efforts should bo made to inolude the brewing industry in the scope of the Bill. There were in this country many "tied" houses, i which could only sell. certain brands of liquor, etc. If those who were ."tied" could raise their voices against those ftho had the upper hand over them there Would be'a pretty high temperature in' this country.: . • ' ■:: , ... ; The Weakness of the Bill. '. MivJFEASEE (.Wdkatipii) -said that if the schedule were interfered with the Bill would never pass. So far New Zealand, was not Trust-ridden. .The Bill had for its object the'promotion of all-round freedom of trade.- It would' be found very ■ difficult to define "a fair and reasonable amount of commercial profit." Then, again, who was going -to be responsible for the work?. .' ' ■ Mr. HOGG (Mastcrton) hoped that the Bill would sound the. death-knell of the ; flour and oatmeal ."trust/ . The. measure' would,act. as a deterrent against, those: who :would if; they were allowed, form combinations. He held,that the scope of the -schedule should be widened ■.to include all the cdninioh "necessaries of. life. "Mr. BUXTON,(Geraldine);.said that, although ho held agencies for .certain large trading institutions, and had. an .interest in certain concerns, he was going the Bill. ,He was advised that another, oil company was. coming to New Zealand. . ."■■'' ■■■?'.•; ', ■'■. . ■The Prime Minister: After the Bill passes." ;'..„' :•■.■•';'. ■.:'■... .'-.■• :■'■'['. "''••.■ Mr. Buxton.said ,that the introductionof a .certain' harvester had' been in the* interests, of. the farmers.. There, was no monopoly in the matter of '"flora.; At present there were, outside the.as-' eociation. ' Even if there .were'none outside it-had to be remembered .that, flour could':.,be imported from .Australia." If the duty,; we're removedj.: the competition from .Australia would seriously 'lessen farm .employment in New Zealand.. :Aust tralialwas: from the point of v view- of freight 'as near/ as the "South Island to the.North/Island.''■'. - '■'.'" /.'; ' ■ ':'' '.''■ Mr. EUSSELL (Avon) said;that he did not know how. the. principleJbf:the Bill was '-"going to be applied in the case of. meat.vlt appeared to; him; that, the Government should insert, the word "foodstuffs'- in the.schedule'/! .The,weak part of; the "Bill- would :be\th'e'.difficulty m-de;-terminiiig. the', fair price , j bf ; ,an ariicle.'; Need, for' a Fair- Price Board, v' ; v :

■~'iltiwas Us -new .that ; the Bill'would■ notapply > ; where 'one;;man!,. secured: a .'"corner." The time would' come when there wbuld'have to be; established, a■■;■ board having, for-.'its object- the regulation' of prices.': He. would like to': refer "to the operations of the, Pew.' Zealand; Press' As- ' sociatiom '"■' Some r years; ago; it .charged as an'entrance' fee in .the case:of ■, a new:.- ;city paper/ ■-.•A .committee J of, the House had:gone, into the whole.question of the supply/of liable-news. , -- Since then, the price to a. new city'paper'had. been reduced , to :.£'4()o. ; .T)iere. ; was a combina- , tion -between , .-twd r newspaper- \ proprietob IE New' Zealand which was-of such; a grinding nature; that, these papers were like Siamese .twins.', ,'. ."'; ; . ~,. ■' Mr.'JAS.''AIiEN (Bruce)' saidjhe did not'isee-how'the Bill wae.to. operate out'side New; Zealand.;: There were combina- 1 tions , whichr produced .foodstuffs,. etc.,vat a :lowers price;'"thaniwould; 'otherwise- be possible. ' A .combiriatipri/was entitled;to a- larger profit if'it could-produce more ■ Sβ hbpe<l' ' the'.PrimeA Minister: •would -suggest 1 , an; amendment '.'to : Clause '8; in ..Gommito. for; determining ■■ affair', and 'reasonable-'rate qfi ; commercial' profitHe, thought there were other: items'that .should:be placed:in'.thff, schedule. There was- a "'combination 'controlling :.the 'fish supply .in D.uriedin,: , and; legislation, was'-heeded-to deal- with: it; i'He: hoped, some-, .'thing- would be" done ,to ; ■include- fish; in. the ;schedule, : and, to'prevent the whole- , sale' waste which.-'now':-takes :place,- and the..-abnoOTal. price: ; ,that ; sometimes. ; ol>tained in'Dunedin' and;;he,Believea,, l where..-' If tho Bill;could.'.be..made-effec-, tive : and'.'not interfere: with' , 'combination; for ; the 'purpose ! of;cheap;, production'■ it ;would::be/a.BOodsthing.>. .;- •,> y... :.■';', State^Enterprise/':^,.^.;-.:,.; , ;.;;';:/;.;. ■;■■'■. : '-rMr.'v S i; --:B': ■■ TAYLOR ■ (Ghristchurch; North) -did ,not believe.;, the, remedy, pro-; posed :in'-the Bill ■ iwould./prove .< a : solu-; tion'of' the evilj-but: it '.was .useful 'as, an, indication of.the' trend of, public ..feeling ; in :New'Zealand;;'ThoTsamecondi-. .tions in.-regard ;to ;fish,..remarked on*y. Mr: /Allen; wore,said to'- obtain, in Wellington i and in .Christchurch, -andj if .:eo the matter should be taken /up by the .Government, a He would, gladly advocate putting , oni State' trawlers 'from .each of the' centres.-Mr. Russell, had .referred: to the arrangement between two' newspapers. •.OJhis,-- of;-coursei' referred, to .-• the .Christ-, cliurch.papers.-.. .It was the duty;of the. State to -see : , that; such a combination- was broken --up: S What '."j there-; for- allpVing,'?'the'. ; five;iban]ffl:in-New: Zealand?ha'(i?.;! ; Th«y. weroV. earning'.'up to -20; per,-cent.:., per. annum.; The banks • should come under the .provisions of .the. BiU,,.;vNo Anti- ' Trust'' Bill would s remedy ; : :the : evil,, but. what ..would'do H : was .reasonable. State competition , with' private enterprise.;"-: V ; V; Mri STAILWORTHY (Kaipara) : held that' l ' many professional: men,; 'inclnding doctors,' made extortionate .charges."-: ;The. profits":-of ■■; the' 'land; ..speculators,' shoula. Hsp be'.curtailed ■;-by.;,:legislation.,|, Ho; thought efforts, should, be made.that, all prpducors. should-; get a; fair .return- for their';labours..■.'"•'-; V "': :■; > '''■.'-■/;■'■'!'•'':',' : . 'Replyvby'.-'the' Premier. ■■};■ ;■;:;; \l> ( .;;. .-. ."■•■ The:PREMIER:. said' that • it; might ;be possible to put ■ other '"..articles on/; the schedule. 'He -had noted; Mr. B.uchanan s remarks '■ Tfifli : reference; .to ;the;, meat industry... If was.-made , to :put meat-producers/under, -fhe heels of any external . meat monopoly," : the.. country ■would have to: come ,to. their assistance. Sir Joseph. went ■■ : on to .say ■ th'at -Mr.' Buchanan had suggested .that, shipping should , be included. That .was import ant, but it.was difficult, and nothing could bb done to meet the position; . '■■'";;"'■■'• "Mr. Buchanan: "Stop.the rebates. ■■ . ■ : Sir Joseph Ward-said he believed they ehbuld' be stopped, butvit.could not be done ' as they; would be. :made elsewhere. The ffuestion of putting 'shipping in .the schedule had,been very fully: considered before the Bill came down. 'If. we put if'in 1 we would make, it .apply to .local steaineTfi, 'and local steamers ;only.r ; Eefening to the .suggestion .as to whether, beer-should'not. be .included' in the schedule, .he could : not.,agree, to '..;anythingVof the, kind. ''■ It would be', ineffective. ; The proper 'place'; , for: anything of the kind. was; in .' the , ; licensing While he' was' a .believer in freedom of trade,- he-recognised that.free^trade would resnlt 'in,'disaster. Hβ didvnot, believe that a Fair Price' Board should be established.*' Hβ was. prepared to give consideration' to, a •system. which would define what-was '.a fair "rate of profit. Aβ- a result, of the GoTernment establishing various enterprises, : a large • amount had been.saved to the-people of New Zealand. It would not do to make the Bill general. ■' ■ ■ ■■; -. '\ ■/-■ . ■ -; . ': i It was then agreed that the-Bill should, be committed at : a , ;later-sitting. '■■; SECRET COMMISSIONS BILL. V ■ In : ,movihg the second' reading of. the Secret Commissions Bill, 1 ,. "■>■'■. '■■■■ . .■;.'.' ; rThe.PEEMISR said .that similar legislation was in force in' other countries. ■ .Mr. T. E. Taylor: : Does it;.embrace primages?., .;. ' .' ; .' •:'.' , -.',; , ; Sir Joseph: A primage.is.net a secret commission.. . ;•■ ,: i '■:■ , ; Mr. HEEEIES (Tauranga) said that he thought that.there would be some diffioirtty in regard, to the definition of ."agent." '' , -. "'.": . '..'-■ , , Mr.. HOGG (Masterton) hoped that.the Prime- Minister would allow a number of alterations to be made in Committee to make, the Bill more drastic. .. ■ In ■ reply the Premier- said that the Bill should be mode to, apply to private persons, and'he would-be prepared to 6ee this-done in Committee. . ' - ■: It .was agreed that the Bill'should he considered m. Committee at a future sitting.-' ■■'.'. •;.■.-'. '■■■■• ;, ■; ■ ■ ■•"■•••.- ! - ■ v

POST AND TELEGRAPH BILL. ' 1 In 'moving the 6econd reading of the Post and Telegraph Amendment Bill, The PREMIER said ifc was proposed that the control of both' Departments should bo centred in one official. ■ v ..;Mr. '.BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) said there were a number of private lines ■ in Ms district, and there was 'some little difficulty in getting all the settlers to contribute their fair share of maintenance.-. The promoters'of. tho lines,should Sooietie^l

Act, but. they did not, and he now asked that power should be given- to them to stop the telephonic communication, of settlers who did not contribute their quota. . Mr. POOLE (Auckland West) said that there was some apprehension in the Telegraph Department that the highest grade in the Department was to be removed. The PRIME MINISTER promised to look into the matter mentioned by Mr. Buchanan. Tie administrative and commercial sides would be. placed under the secretary, . and the assistant secretary would take second place. The position of superintendent was "being done away with.' The second leading was agreed to. .■■■ .■ ■ : " J ' ■■- '■'■. • CONTAGIOtJS DISEASES ACT REPEAL ■:.-•■■ : BILL. This Bill was considered in Committee. The Premier said that the Aot was a dead letter, and next session they would refer the, matter to a Select Committee.. Mr.; Hardy (Sclwyn) declared that the Government should not shirk its ' proper duty,. which was to make the Act apply to both , sexes. ' ■ . ■■".. ;'.-.-. '-. The , Bill was reported-'without amendment, and,, the third 'reading set down for next sitting day.; ■ " . ..; PUBLICATIONS.BILL. The ' report*; , of ; the' managers ' on. this Bill was agreed toT ; , ; : ' , . ~ ; • The House adjourned at 2.40 a.m.' ..