THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 948, 15 October 1910, Page 7

THE HOUSE.

NEW BILLS INTRODUCED. '• / .When.; the' House/resumed its. sittings yesterday, the following Bills; were ..read a. first time■/' '•• Harbours Amendment Bill No. 2 (Hon. J. A. Millar). _ _ _ 1 v Industrial' Conciliation aiid Arbitration Amendment Bill (the Hon. J. A. Millar); .. , . >• Native- Birds' Protection Bill (Qh 1 William Steward). • . .-■ < - DEBATE ON THE ESTIMATES. A* RIGOROUS ANALYSIS. DEPARTMENT OP INTERNAL AFFAIRS. In Committee; oril/the' Estimates, in regard -to • the.; Department-' of Internal Affairs,v ! -i:/;' Mr.- MASSEY drew attention, to. the fact' that- there were.; certain increases in regard to the office of' the. Minister 'for' Internal Affairs/; .Under the7'heading of , Superannuation 1 and,. Classification Boards, there were new items: Accountant £300, ,'two ' J a!t' £140, one at . £110, and shorthand and ..'typewriter-, £130. • Why was this./the case in view "of . the period of retrenchment? - , . .'K''

Tho Hon. ■D. BTJDDO said that the amount, of the";;items -, mentioned- would be recovered from the .Public - Service .Superannuation Board., .-The, items ,were ; •put..- there -to make it : :cl^r ? iJhaf-;;tHe,-officials in ' question were . under' tho' superannuation scheme. As regards the total voto -there; w;as only an increase of a, little .oyer £100. . . ' ' . -Mr.-' Fisher: / Then ..where was the retrenchment;? .;, :;-'';. .vMr:'' Biid'do.: : ,\No'.reduction is'- claimed in this Department./ (Laughter.) Delay In Auditing Publio Bodies' Accounts. ; • ' . ' In regard to the vote for messengers and office-keepers, v - r Mr. - WRIGHT ' (Wellington . South) drew- 'a-ttentibn.;/'to the' increase in; thetotal amount from £8300 two years'ago to £8749. ■ ..... Mr. Buddo 'reiterated/ that-- no retrenchment. in this ' Department wa^. .claimed. . /'.... ' . -. . ..- Mr. : . But. ithe.'.aiumb'e'r. of ■ messengers' has .been decreased/' from 38 to 33! - ' Mr. Buddo: Oh, we can't' go back to -1908. (Laughter.) In regard,-to ..the vote for the:. Audit Office, < , Mr. HANAN (Invercargill) wished to know how niojiy of tho'officials had passed an accountancy- examination. 'Mr. PEARCE (Patea) referred to. the delay which took place in some districts in tho matter, of tho auditing of the' accounts of local, bodies.; ; ,;

Mr. WITTY: (Riccarton) declared that some. of the > Government _ auditors 'were overworked and under-paid. :/■ . Mr. DIVE (Egmont) pointed to the fa!ct thatthe highest official .in the Department had received an -increase of £50. - The Hon. D. BUDDO said that there were few. .complaints ;as.to delay , in regard- to the- work ;6f ,the Department; : Mr.' Pearce:' The - local- bodies have got tired of complaining. _.; ! •; ;._ ' Mr.' HANAN; (lnvercargill), in tho course, 'off. further, .remarks,- said., ho knew of two instances where defalcii- ' tions! were, 'discovered . two . years after • the. accounts of local bodies had been audited. - The Hon.,D. BUDDO said it would :be, impossible 1 '; to" -solely rely on educational examination' aia test of- ability.' Census of Cities. Under the heading; ''.'"Registrar-' General's Office," Mr. ARNOLD (Dunedin Central) declared that some 1 21 registrars of births;' deaths, and marriages were underpaid. ■ Mr. LUKE (Wellington Suburbs) wished to know by what process of reasoning the" census of Auckland was made to include the residents of Birlcenhead, Devonport, and Nortlicoto. He thought that Petono and Hutt should in the circumstances be included in the. City of Wellington.

Tho Hon.' D. BUDDO,' in reply, said that lie was-free to confess that, the question beat him. As a matter of fact, local conditions governed' the question. He knew of one instance where a local authority; seven miles distant! was, in his opinion, rightly included in a city. Whero connections •were established between a city and suburbs tlio latter wore considered' to be part of the city. . • Mr: ARNOLD (Dunedin Central) declared that there should bo a fair basis of computing the census of the cities. In view of the-basis', as regards Auckland City, Port Chalmers, .and other places, including oven Mosgiel, should be included in the City of Dunedin.

:■ Mr. HARDY (Selwyn) asked whether the Minister was in favour of tlio census of tho Dominion being taken once in every tori years.

' The MINISTER thought that it was too early to consider such a proposal. Tho next census would bo taken on the first or second Monday in April next.

Mr. WRIGHT . (Wellington South) expressed tho opinion that Onehunga should be included in the census of Auckland, and Petono and Hutt in that of Wellington. . ' Mr. WILFORD (Hutt) argued that if tlio census were taken only once in ten years, and the population was not increasing very rapidly, the public conscience would not bo awakened to the

fact that tlib cradles were not being kept hill.

Preparation of Elootoral Rolls,

As regards the vote for the Electoral Department, ■Mr. xMASSEY expressed tho opinion that tho cost of die Department, in view of tho work that had to be done, was unduly heavy. ■ Several members favoured a hotter systom of purging tho rolls. Mr. WILFOItD (Hutt) said it was surprising how, many dead men came to light on'.election day.- ' . Sir. Wisher: It is resurrection day. ■ Mr. Wilford": And they not only walk, but vote.

; Continuing, Mr. Wilford criticised .the maimer of preparing the rolls. Only the other day a marriod woman had received a notification to the /effect- that she was hot married, ahd that she did not reside in the street in which she had lived for twenty years. (Laughter-.) A better system of preparing tho rolls was urgently needed. - Mr. WlT'l'l r (Riccarton) complained that in the'readjustment of the boundaries of some of tho electorates common sense had not been shown. He knew of on© ' instance in Canterbury where', three. . electorates, crossed one •river. In another case an electorate had been extended twenty miles to include a 'dozen people. Mr. HARDY (Selivyn) said tliat tho fault in the matter lay with' the House in altering the margin, and should not' be saddled-upon tho commissioners who tried to do their' best.

The Hon. D. BUDDO; asserted, that it would be .unwise to do too ; much cheese-paring in regard to the Department.' In the case of by-eelctions the rolls werei always ready. A good part■ of the. cost of the work- of. the Department was duo, to the fact that thirty per cent, of . corrections, were made last year.. Purging and Enrolling. ' Mr. DAVE Y (Christchurcli East) said ; that"there must bo. something wrong when, in. regard to the Government's roll . 'for ~ his district. •at last election, 1750 names - had to bo struck ' off, and 1500 added. He complained, also that too, many rolls were 'sent to each, district for the purposes.of sale: ,It was his; opinion that the local registrars could purge tho rolls better than officials in Wellington. . The law should be. amended to provide that only State officials should be'allowed to enrol members.' Ho knew of instances where' both the Liquor party and the No-License party had failed' to' send in names which they'had, collected. It' was his viow that more adults were on the different rolls than resided • in the Dominion.'' All told, two-thirds of tho i»pulation of New Zealand were on the rolls. •

Mr. FISHER (Wellington Central) moved to',reduce the.'item .by £1, as an 1 indication I ';' that greater:'.latitude should bo allowed to ;the-commissioners in fixing electoral- boundaries, so that they-might preserve, community of in-: terest. / The interference witli the- com>•munity of interest;, existed chiefly in tho country, but it was, also to bo noticed in the 'cities., It was absurd to try to cut -up efectbrates so that they should include the same number; of men,, women, and children at;the expense of' community of .interest., Ho had' not moved the amendment in .My party spirit, but because the Legislature ' Bill might not' pass ' this . session, and in the meanwhile the 'commissioners would be at ; work. ' . / ■ . Mr. ARNOLD (Dunedin Central), said he'had a prior amendment. He moved that tho item of £500 for preparation and: printing'of rolls be reduced by :£ly as an indication that the ; system. .of compiling the' roll was unsatisfactory. Ho pointed out that much of the work that was now/being done and- bad been done would bo duplicated during the | .mpntlis,, preceding, tho 'general election'. '/ "Never In a Worsa Stato." Mr.;MASSEY hoped--that an Electoral, Bill would bo forthcoming this; session. He believed : that -.the-irofls- were : never, in a worse state'than at - present. - In regard* to a' roll which he recently in-' spec ted, thero were; ho believed, 1000 pames on it which should not have'been there, : whilst' 1000. electors \wero not on the roll.,: He-had case where a member, after' his election;'found, that his name was not oii .any-roll in tho Dominion. - ' ■ ..-.-m, ; , - Mr. BROWN (Napier) "took. ; exception to a i general statement to the effect that members; of tlio Liquor party and. No-License' party had failed _to" deliver claims for enrolment which they had: obtained, because they, afterwards 'found; that £ho intending electors were'of tho wrong colour.. Ho denied- 'that 'such; had been the'case in his district. The law, N too, provided for; a heavy penalty in cases of tho kind. In his district the canvassers were informed as to", the position of the law. Are Too Many Rolls Printed? Ho combated also the suggestion that too many, rolls .were .sent into' districts for; tho : purposes of sale-;, If . the .num-.. ber of rolls, available were', restricted,, it might', lead to an awkward-position, of'-/affairs. - ; 'ln some cases .it might happen, ; if. : only a,, limited number \of copies of the rolls were available, one side.might, buy .up the "whole lot.; .In .a district where there were .-a.'. large', number of candidates, as; was the case at Hastings; last' session, ample, copies. should be available- It was impossible for Government officials' to gauge the, number of rolls which would be needed in. any district. To his mind it would bo a terrible_ calamity . if any district were,starved in the; matter'of rolls. /- /

Mr. POOLE (Auckland West)' 'declared -that, a great .many names, had never got on to tho .rollj'as : a result of the operations of: the liquor, traffic. Vested interests could afford to engage a host of canvassers. It could not be gainsaid that hundreds of. people of the wrong colour to "tho trade" had? been struck.out.- He thought that the,time had arrived- for. the introduction of tho. system, of ,electors', rights.- '" Value of Electors' Rights System. ! Every adult possessing the' , right to . vote should, have a certificate.^ 1 Under that system when an " elector , voted his, right 1 was perforated. The perforation , cancelled tho right • . and prevented dual voting. . ■ v ■ Mr:-Wilford:. What if. the- elector | loses his right? ; ( '. - : . ■ Mr. Poole :Ho would have- .to tdke, tho consequences, as in the case of a lost- railway ticket. . . . - ' The Hon'. D; . BUDDO said that the Electoral 'Bill would come up .for-., consideration .this session. ;- There appeared, to be a consensus: of opinion that tho, margin in tho. caso of districts should be '-widened./ Owing to the movements of population, clean rolls were not possible. ~',ln tho new Bill ■ provision' was made for a house-to-house canvass,' also for purging'- .the rolls_ in 'a more 1 effective. manner. He might also sjnention that the electors' ■ rights V system • -had been-discarded in New South Wales. - Tho amendment was rejected on the voices. - The High Commissioner's Office. When the vote for the High ' Commissioner's Department was reached, •'Mr. MASSEY. called attention to the increase in tho total vote from £7904 to £8375. Earlier in the session tho Prime Minister had stated that a saving of £88,000 had been made in regard. to tho Department of Internal Affaire. Where was "it'to "fie 'found? Ho noticed that the 'l'rado and Immigration representative was to get £700, as against £583 last year. In tho matter of office equipment, including stationery and publications, tho,voto of £500 last year had beon exceeded by £535. He thought that a report should be obtained in regard to the Department annually..

Mr. ARNOLD (Dnnodin Central) asked whether it was intended to extend tho lease of the present offices, - and if so for what term, or whether other premises had been secured. Ho understood that the cost of tho offices was'out-of- all proporation- to the cost of tho offices of tho other States.

Tho Hon. D. BUDDO said that tho lease of the. present promises had ex-, pired, biit. a temporary leaso" had been arranged pending tho outcomo of negotiations for other premises. 'As regards tlie expenses of the office, ho would like to point out that an enormous amount of business was transacted at the office. Tho addition to the staff and the salaries' had not been beyond the requirements. Ho believed that the increase of salary in the case of; tho trade and emigration representative was. justified. Tho increa-so in the amount expended on office equipment was due to tho fact that certain offices formerly occupied, by "E. Smith" had been. taken overi

Mr., Herries: Does "E. •A. Smith" still occupy offices in the same building. Mr. Buddo: I think that they do' —temporarily.' Position of the Home Veterinarian. Replying to Mr. Pearce, the. Minister said' that the veterinarian in regard to the office had sometimes to inspect meat, and do inspection, work ; for. the Agricultural" Department." * Mr. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) urged that- the office- was not giving value by a long way for 'the : expenditure in-' curred by "the taxpayers. He,'would recall that the lato Mr. Seddon had at one tirno advocated that the office should .be abolished. . . - ' . Mr. Buddo : That is pretty ancient. Mr. Buchanan said that it was none the . less authentic, although he would not say that he would back up that position. , He did riot. think that the sendees', of ■ a- permanent' veterinarian at Home were required. 1 . ■ Mr. ARNOLD (Dunedin Central) averred that • there. were still complaints that - callers could riot obtain informa-. tion which'they sought; at the office. In reply, Mr. Buddo said that every courtesy was, shown and information, given' to callers- at, the office. : -. ■ Mr. HOGG (Masterton)' said that, he would like to know whether the veterinarian was employed to look , after the horses •of the staff, or' to examine immigrants. ; (Laughter.) Then, again, he wished to know what had become of "E. A. Smith."; This had shown, itself to be a very enterprising firm. For years it had been Accustomed to send out large batches of immigrants with recoinmendations to the Department of Labour. (Laughter:) Ho believed that the firm'traded under other ■ names, and ho • would like to know ■whether .it still survived • under any of, them. . . -' ' 1 . . -.1 ' Better Premises Urged. • ' Mr. BTJICK ■ (Palmerstou North) thought th?t ;■ moredetails', should . be ■provided in regard to tho expenditure ' inconnection' with the office. .. Mr. OKEY (Taranaki) defended the •appointment of. the veterinarian - who had doneV,immense-..service"- 011/.behalf of this country. V/.,.- . , Mr.' MYERS (Auckland East) thought that' New Zealand. should obtain premises,in a' more central; -posiT: •tion. New Zealarid should make exhibits of, its products at Home'as,was done by other colonies. : There was a necessity also for the appointment of siibtagencies at Home.. '. If this were done it might -lead::-to the gain of immigrants which would otherwise, go to other countries. h: -' :

Mr. WRIGHT (Wellington South) referred to the growth of tlio -expenditure in connection witli the' offico. To his mind it was-getting out of hand. In 1907-8 the vote was £5730, and the expenditure. £6750.Last; • year v'thovote was £7904 and 'the oxpenditui'6 was;£94l6:-/v.' , ■ The MINISTER declared that . the' country was getting an adequate return, for the .expenditure.. Ho would ■like to point out mat me office• touiu not be .done /withoivt. -All kinds of I 'in-, situations ill iNew Zealand availed themselves of the office in oqnnection with appointments to this", country, etc.-

"A Dumping Ground."

; Mr. MASSEY said it was plain that the general < feeling was that the office was , being made the ' flumping ■■ ground for a number of political favourites. of ..Government.,;.,lt wasiihe most extravagantly conducted of tho extravagant. State Deportments. Ho would like to know whether tho officials at Homo were Civil Servants.

: Mr. BUCELANAN (Wairarapa) said ithat he had been!informed by a. wellknown New Zealand expert in such matters that the veterinarian at Home was not needed. • ,c . . Hon; T. Mackenzie: Ho did not know, what 'he was. talking about. . ;

: Mr.Buchanan: You will have to livo a great many years before you know half as much, as ho docs, and'his services wero worth ; very much more than you_ are ever likely to get for your services. " ■

Mr. Mackenzie rejoined that ho had been;'offered : more.'money per. annum than ever • tho gentleman in', question I had. received.". : i . | Control of the Dominion Museum. As regards the vote for the. Dominion Museum,.; , .v;..'. • . ' , Mi\ WILFORD (Hutt). moved that tho total .vote ho reduced by f 1 as ; an. indication that, the. time has arrived when the museum should he placed under the control of trustees to whom an annua! voto 'of, say, £2300 per annum should be made. . ' ■■ The Hon. D. BUDDO said ho did not/ thinkthat tho 'museum would be .better controlled by a board of management. -If there were a board of-man-agement'it might hamper the work ,of the . director... Under . -the,,- present management' good, work was- being done. .-'.lt. had to be remembered that the work was'of a-very.highly technical nature. .. , Mr. Wilford replied that the director was- in favour of the proposed change, and tho.staff held tho same view.. '

The amendment wm rejected by 34 votes to 20. - ' < ■-. Mental Hospitals. ■ There was an interesting discussion (reported elsewhere) on the" question of the' hours of asylum; attendants, and, on the motion of/Mr. Hogg, the vote was, by 32 to 20,' reduced, as an'indication that the hours should be shortened. : • ' V . HEALTH DEPARTMENT. CAMBRIDGE SANATORIUM. The rumours that the . Government was going < to abandon 'the Cambridge Sanatorium, and;-that the- site, or a portion of the estate, • had been offered:.for: sale, were referred to by Mr. Herries during the discussion of the Public Health Estimats. '• ••' ' Mr. POLAND (Olimoimiri) asked for information in the samo • connection, it having been reported that the result of the working of tho institution' had not been satisfactory. 'In'• replying, the 'MINISTER said the Government intended keeping tho institution going, and had not tire, least .intention , of discontinuing the work;, or had they , made any offer in regard to tho property/• A few canards had been finding their way into the newspapers, but they had no foundation in fact. The institution, was giving practical results, equal to anything done at other institutions. ' Medical Officer Wanted. Replying to tho question -by. . Mr. Dillon as to tho necessity for tho appointment of a resident medical oificor for Hawko's Bay, Tho MINISTER said, the dis-

trict pra'ctically had a resident officer in Drl Do Lisle. Under tho new arrangement' of districts, tho Hawke's Bay could, ho was told, be easily managed from- Wellington. There was no intention of, neglecting the interests of Hawke's Bay. Mr. DUNCAN (Wairau) moved a reduction of. £1 in tho vote, as an* indication that the Department should have the nuisance created by the railway'embankment at Picton abated. On tho division, tho motion was lost, the voting boing: Ayes, 22; Noes, 29. At' 2 a.m. tho Hon. J. A. Millar stated, in reply to Mr. Massoy, that it was intended to put through the .remainder of tho Estimates at the sitting, with the exception'of .those for tho Defence, Lands, • and Education Departments. ' Mr. Massey raised a strong. protest onbehalf of "those who took moro interest in tho proceedings than to vote." - (Left sitting.)